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#Post#: 18645--------------------------------------------------
Re: Islamic Golden Age - Philosophy and Humanities
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: March 28, 2023, 7:51 pm
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--- Quote ---
> Excellent video! All those people deserve recognition and
credit. Something to think about...the scientific method is
actually "built in" to nature. Without the ability to
detect/observe, make and remember a choice, and then later learn
from a bad choice or repeat a good or better choice, nothing
could propagate itself. Plants, animals and early humans have
been doing these things since they started to exist (and yes,
plants do "behave" by avoiding things that are harmful to them
and being attracted to things that are good for their survival,
like growing towards sunlight). The earliest humans had to
observe what they were hunting, test different techniques,
abandon those that didn't work and perfect those that did. Same
thing a pack of wolves had to do to survive. Nature is "running
experiments" all the time. In that sense, the "scientific
method" is as old as nature itself. Thanks for the great video!
--- End Quote ---
Therefore, empiricism is part of Yahweh rule
#Post#: 18978--------------------------------------------------
Re: Islamic Golden Age - Philosophy and Humanities
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: April 21, 2023, 10:47 am
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Ibn Khaldun's Empirical Theory was Contrary to Islamic Teachings
It teaches scientific racialism rather than racial unification.
He closer to Aristotle rather than Prophet Mohammad
If don't have time to read all the quoted contents, just read
the sentences which given in bold and red color
Last Edited on 4/22/2023
--- Quote ---
> The inhabitants of the zones that are far from temperate, such
as the first, second, sixth, and seventh zones, are also farther
removed from being temperate in all their conditions. Their
buildings are of clay and reeds. Their foodstuffs are durra and
herbs. Their clothing is the leaves of trees, which they sew
together to cover themselves, or animal skins. Most of them go
naked. The fruits and seasonings of their countries are strange
and inclined to be intemperate. In their business dealings, they
do not use the two noble metals, but copper, iron, or skins,
upon which they set a value for the purpose of business
dealings. Their qualities of character, moreover, are close to
those of dumb animals. It has even been reported that most of
the Negroes of the first zone dwell in caves and thickets, eat
herbs, live in savage isolation and do not congregate, and eat
each other. The same applies to the Slavs. The reason for this
is that their remoteness from being temperate produces in them a
disposition and character similar to those of the dumb animals,
and they become correspondingly remote from humanity.
>
> (Page 120)
>
> The inhabitants of the middle zones are temperate in their
physique and character and in their ways of life. They have all
the natural conditions necessary for a civilized life, such as
ways of making a living, dwellings, crafts, sciences, political
leadership, and royal authority. They thus have had prophecy,
religious groups, dynasties, religious laws, sciences,
countries, cities, buildings, horticulture, splendid crafts, and
everything else that is temperate.
>
> Now, among the inhabitants of these zones about whom we have
historical information are, for instance, the Arabs, the
Byzantines (Rum), the Persians, the Israelites, the Greeks, the
Indians, and the Chinese. When genealogists noted differences
between these nations, their distinguishing marks and
characteristics, they considered these to be due to their
different descents. They declared all the Negro inhabitants of
the south to be descendants of Ham. They had misgivings about
their colour and therefore undertook to report the
aforementioned silly story. They declared all or most of the
inhabitants of the north to be the descendants of Japheth, and
they declared most of the temperate nations, who inhabit the
central regions, who cultivate the sciences and crafts, and who
possess religious groups and religious laws as well as political
leadership and royal authority, to be the descendants of Shem.
Even if the genealogical construction were correct, it would be
the result of mere guesswork, not of cogent, logical
argumentation
>
> (Page 123)
>
> ...
>
> We have seen that Negroes are in general characterized by
levity, excitability, and great emotionalism. They are found
eager to dance whenever they hear a melody. They are everywhere
described as stupid. The real reason for these opinions is that,
as has been shown by philosophers in the proper place, joy and
gladness are due to expansion and diffusion of the animal
spirit. Sadness is due to the opposite, namely, contraction and
concentration of the animal spirit. It has been shown that heat
expands and rarefies air and vapours and increases their
quantity. A drunken person experiences inexpressible joy and
gladness, because the vapour of the spirit in his heart is
pervaded by natural heat, which the power of the wine generates
in his spirit. The spirit, as a result, expands, and there is
joy. Likewise, when those who enjoy a hot bath inhale the air of
the bath, so that the heat of the air enters their spirits and
makes them hot, they are found to experience joy. It often
happens that they start singing, as singing has its origin in
gladness.
>
> Now, Negroes live in the hot zone. Heat dominates their
temperament and formation. Therefore, they have in their spirits
an amount of heat corresponding to that in their bodies and that
of the zone in which they live. In comparison with the spirits
of the inhabitants of the fourth zone, theirs are hotter and,
consequently, more expanded. As a result, they are more quickly
moved to joy and gladness, and they are merrier. Excitability is
the direct consequence.
>
> (Page 125)
>
> ...
>
> ...the Negro nations are, as a rule, submissive to slavery,
because (Negroes) have little that is (essentially) human and
possess attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb
animals, as we have stated.
>
> (Page 199)
>
> ...
>
> Under the rule of Bedouins, their subjects live as in a state
of anarchy, without law. Anarchy destroys mankind and ruins
civilization, since, as we have stated, the existence of royal
authority is a natural quality of man. It alone guarantees their
existence and social organization
>
> (Page 201)
>
> ...
>
> It is noteworthy how civilization always collapsed in places
the Bedouins took over and conquered, and how such settlements
were depopulated and laid in ruin. The Yemen where Bedouins live
is in ruins, except for a few cities. Persian civilization in
the Arab ‘Irâq is likewise completely ruined. The same applies
to contemporary Syria. Formerly, the whole region between the
Sudan and the Mediterranean was settled. This is attested to by
the relics of civilization there, such as monuments,
architectural sculpture, and the visible remains of villages and
hamlets
>
> (Page 202)
>
> ...
>
> We have said before that desert civilization is inferior to
urban civilization, because not all the necessities of
civilization are to be found among the people of the desert.
They do have some agriculture at home but do not possess the
materials that belong to it, most of which (depend on) crafts.
They do not have any carpenters, tailors, blacksmiths, or others
(who) would provide them with the necessities required for
making a living in agriculture and other things.
>
> Likewise, they do not have (coined) money. They have the
equivalent of it in harvested grain, in animals, and in animal
products such as milk, wool, (camel’s) hair, and hides, which
the urban population needs and pays the Bedouins money for.
However, while (the Bedouins) need the cities for their
necessities of life, the urban population needs (the Bedouins)
for conveniences and luxuries. Thus, as long as they live in the
desert and have not acquired royal authority and control of the
cities, the Bedouins need the inhabitants (of the latter). They
must be active in behalf of their interests and obey them
whenever (the cities) ask and demand obedience from them. (Page
205) - Ibn Khaldun
--- End Quote ---
Source :
1. Ibn Khaldun The Muqaddimah An Introduction to History
Translated and Introduced by Franz Rosenthal Abriged and Edited
by N.J. Dawood With a new introduction by Bruce B. Lawrence.
BOLLINGEN SERIES PRINCETON UNIVERSITY PRESS PRINCETON AND OXFORD
(2005 Edition). Page 120, 123, 125, 199, 201, 202, 205
HTML https://ia903106.us.archive.org/22/items/etaoin/The%20Muqaddimah%20%E2%80%93%20An%20Introduction%20to%20History%20by%20Ibn%20Khaldun.pdf
2. The Muqaddimah, An Introduction to History by Ibn Khaldun,
1332-1406; Rosenthal, Franz, 1914- ed; Dawood, N. J., ed.
[Princeton, N.J.] Princeton University Press (1969). Page 59,
61, 63, 117, 119, 122
HTML https://archive.org/details/muqaddimahintrod00ibnk
#Post#: 18980--------------------------------------------------
Re: Islamic Golden Age - Philosophy and Humanities
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: April 21, 2023, 5:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
This part:
--- Quote ---
> Under the rule of Bedouins, their subjects live as in a state
of anarchy, without law. Anarchy destroys mankind and ruins
civilization, since, as we have stated, the existence of royal
authority is a natural quality of man. It alone guarantees their
existence and social organization
>
> ...
>
> It is noteworthy how civilization always collapsed in places
the Bedouins took over and conquered, and how such settlements
were depopulated and laid in ruin. The Yemen where Bedouins live
is in ruins, except for a few cities. Persian civilization in
the Arab ‘Irâq is likewise completely ruined. The same applies
to contemporary Syria. Formerly, the whole region between the
Sudan and the Mediterranean was settled. This is attested to by
the relics of civilization there, such as monuments,
architectural sculpture, and the visible remains of villages and
hamlets
>
> ...
>
> We have said before that desert civilization is inferior to
urban civilization, because not all the necessities of
civilization are to be found among the people of the desert.
They do have some agriculture at home but do not possess the
materials that belong to it, most of which (depend on) crafts.
They do not have any carpenters, tailors, blacksmiths, or others
(who) would provide them with the necessities required for
making a living in agriculture and other things.
>
> Likewise, they do not have (coined) money. They have the
equivalent of it in harvested grain, in animals, and in animal
products such as milk, wool, (camel’s) hair, and hides, which
the urban population needs and pays the Bedouins money for.
However, while (the Bedouins) need the cities for their
necessities of life, the urban population needs (the Bedouins)
for conveniences and luxuries. Thus, as long as they live in the
desert and have not acquired royal authority and control of the
cities, the Bedouins need the inhabitants (of the latter). They
must be active in behalf of their interests and obey them
whenever (the cities) ask and demand obedience from them.
--- End Quote ---
is Mohammedan:
HTML http://aryanism.net/wp-content/uploads/bedouinism.jpg
(Anti-Bedouinism is a minor aspect of anti-Turanism. Obviously
desert herding (involving less numerous herds) exerts much
weaker selective pressure for Turanian traits than steppe
herding, but it is reasonable to expect that the selective
pressure is still broadly in the same direction.)
#Post#: 18986--------------------------------------------------
Re: Islamic Golden Age - Philosophy and Humanities
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: April 22, 2023, 1:27 am
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--- Quote from: guest5 link ---
>
> Islamic Golden Age - Philosophy and Humanities
>
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M5wyH4kNZE
>
--- End Quote ---
(Minute 16 : 05 until 16 : 12)
--- Quote ---
> It's tough to conceive of western civilization without the
contributions of the Muslim philosophers of the Islamic Golden
Age.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 19039--------------------------------------------------
Re: Islamic Golden Age - Philosophy and Humanities
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: April 27, 2023, 3:17 am
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HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCrOfNx63nM
#Post#: 19161--------------------------------------------------
Re: Islamic Golden Age - Philosophy and Humanities
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: May 3, 2023, 8:43 am
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Result of Islamic "Golden Age"
--- Quote ---
> Whether or not Al-Mas’udi quotes a real Galenic text, his
history is transparently implicated in racist politics: he makes
explicit reference in the passage being discussed to the “Zanj”
people, who were African slaves under Islamic rule and whose
revolt against that rule Al-Mas’udi discusses in his work.
Al-Mas’udi’s insistence on the intellectual inferiority of
Africans should be seen as a contribution to perpetuating that
slavery, just as such claims were used by Europeans and
Americans to justify slavery in the 18th century. It is chilling
to note the similarity between the description of Africans that
Al-Mas’udi attributes to Galen and the harmful racial
stereotypes that persist to this day: “kinky hair, thin
eyebrows, broad noses, thick lips, sharp teeth, malodorous skin,
dark pupils, clefty hands and feet, elongated penises, and
excessive merriment.” These physical stereotypes were
popularized by blackface minstrelsy, which made these physical
characteristics evidence for the moral and cultural inferiority
of African Americans.
>
> Traditional admiration for Aristotle, Hippocrates, and other
ancient writers has served as the basis for many forms of hatred
and oppression. The same may be said for Al-Mas’udi, whose
already significant influence has, at times, been further
augmented by a Classical parallel by which he is sometimes
called “The Herodotus of the Arabs.” According to the scholar
Akbar Muhammad, however, one of Al-Mas’udi’s successors,
Ibn-Khaldun (14th century), “reprimands al-Mas’udi for
apparently accepting Galen’s conclusion that ‘the levity,
excitability, and emotionalism’ of [Africans] were caused by
their alleged weakness of mind;” Ibn-Khaldun called Galen’s
claim “an inconclusive and unproven statement.” We would do well
to imitate this skepticism.
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://pharos.vassarspaces.net/2018/10/05/ancient-greek-doctor-galen-cited-to-authorize-racist-iq-data/
#Post#: 24147--------------------------------------------------
Re: Islamic Golden Age - Philosophy and Humanities
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: November 27, 2023, 12:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Eurocentrist Westernized Medieval Arab
--- Quote ---
> The Arabs and Persians were therefore familiar with blacks,
and in some cases wrote about them at length. Their descriptions
were almost always negative and many middle-Easterners continue
to have a low opinion of blacks, who are not generally welcome
as immigrants.
>
> The American scholar Minoo Southgate has summarized, in her
own words, the characteristics of blacks most commonly recorded
by mid-Eastern writers: “In both Arab and Persian Islamic
writings, blacks are accused of being stupid, untruthful,
vicious, cowardly, sexually unbridled, ugly and distorted,
excessively merry, and easily affected by food and drink.” She
also quotes a number of sources directly.
>
> ...
>
> Persians who observed blacks reached similar conclusions. The
geographer al-Qazwini (1203 – 1283) asserted that blacks are
characterized by “weakness of intelligence,” and Hudud al-Alam
(c. 982 AD) wrote that “as regards southern countries, all their
inhabitants are black on account of the heat of their climate .
. . Most of them go naked. . . . They are people distant from
the standards of humanity . . . Their nature is that of wild
animals.”
>
> The Persian scholar Abu Rayhan al-Biruni did not comment on
the intelligence of blacks but wrote (c.1030 AD) of what he
considered their primitive nature: “[T]he Zanj [blacks] are so
uncivilized that they have no notion of a natural death. If a
man dies a natural death, they think he was poisoned. Every
death is suspicious with them, if a man has not been killed by a
weapon.”
>
> Maqdisi (fl. 966 AD) asserted of blacks that “there is no
marriage among them; the child does not know his father, and
they eat people.” Some three centuries later, the Persian
scholar Nasir al-Din Tusi (1201-1274) concluded that the human
races had different levels of intellectual development and that
East African blacks were at the lowest level: “If all types of
men are taken, and one placed after another, the Negro from
Zanzibar does not differ from an animal in anything except the
fact that his hands have been lifted from the earth . . . Many
have seen that the ape is more capable of being trained than the
Negro, and is more intelligent.”
--- End Quote ---
Source :
HTML https://www.amren.com/archives/back-issues/may-2011/#article2
#Post#: 24149--------------------------------------------------
Re: Islamic Golden Age - Philosophy and Humanities
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: November 27, 2023, 1:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
But are you saying that they had these views because of contact
with Western ideas.? If so, you should at least include the part
of the enemy article which mentions Aristotle:
--- Quote ---
> Ibn Khaldun also wrote: “Therefore, the Negro nations are, as
a rule, submissive to slavery, because Negroes have little that
is human and have attributes that are quite similar to those of
dumb animals.” Khaldun could have been quoting Aristotle, who
wrote that “it is clear that there are certain people who are
free and certain who are slaves by nature, and it is both to
their advantage, and just, for them to be slaves.” Aristotle
also likened slaves to animals, calling the ox the poor man’s
slave.
--- End Quote ---
Wikipedia is even better on this:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Arab_attitudes_to_Black_people
--- Quote ---
> Attitudes of medieval Arabs to Black people varied over time
and individual attitude, but tended to be negative. Though the
Qur'an expresses no racial prejudice, ethnocentric prejudice
towards black people is widely evident among medieval Arabs, for
a variety of reasons:[1] Arabs' extensive conquests and slave
trade; the influence of Aristotelian ideas regarding slavery,
which some Muslim philosophers directed towards Zanj;[2] and the
influence of Judeo-Christian ideas regarding divisions among
humankind.[3]
--- End Quote ---
We should also contrast these later attitudes with earlier
(pre-Aristotelian/Judaic) attitudes:
--- Quote ---
> ḥadīth attributed to Aksum a supportive role for
early Muslims, which later encouraged a body of pro-Ethiopian
Muslim literature.[7]
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 24583--------------------------------------------------
Re: Islamic Golden Age - Philosophy and Humanities
DIR By: rp
Date: December 25, 2023, 1:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Would you say that the scientific achievements of the "Muslims"
in the so-called "Golden Age" could be attributed to Turanian
blood?
Take, for example, Ibn Sina, "Muslim" Aristotelian scientist:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna#Early_life_and_education
--- Quote ---
> Avicenna was born in c. 980 in the village of Afshana in
Transoxiana to a family of Persian ancestry.[23] The village was
near the Samanid capital of Bukhara, which was his mother's
hometown.[24] His father Abd Allah was a native of the city of
Balkh in Tukharistan.[25] An official of the Samanid
bureaucracy, he had served as the governor of a village of the
royal estate of Harmaytan (near Bukhara) during the reign of Nuh
II (r. 976–997).[25] Avicenna also had a younger brother.
A few years later, the family settled in Bukhara, a center of
learning, which attracted many scholars. It was there that
Avicenna was educated, which early on was seemingly administered
by his father.[26][27][28] Although both Avicenna's father and
brother had converted to Ismailism, he himself did not follow
the faith.[29][30] He was instead an adherent of the Sunni
Hanafi school, which was also followed by the Samanids.[31]
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transoxiana
--- Quote ---
> Transoxiana or Transoxania ("Land beyond the Oxus") is the
Latin name for a region and civilization located in lower
Central Asia roughly corresponding to modern-day eastern
Uzbekistan, western Tajikistan, parts of southern Kazakhstan,
parts of Turkmenistan and southern Kyrgyzstan. Geographically,
it is the region between the rivers Amu Darya to its south and
the Syr Darya to its north.[1]
>
> Historically known in Persian as Farā-rūd (Persian:
فرارود,
[fæɾɒːˈɾuːd̪] – 'beyond the
[Amu] river'), Faro-rüd (Tajik:
Фарорӯд), and
Varaz-rüd (Tajik:
Варазрӯд), the
area had been known to the ancient Iranians as Turan, a term
used in the Persian national epic Shahnameh.[2] The
corresponding Chinese term for the region is Hezhong (Chinese:
河中地区 - land between rivers (Amu and
Syr) ). The Arabic term Mā Warāʾ an-Nahr (Arabic:
ما وراء
النهر, [ˈmaː
waˈraːʔ anˈnahr], which means "what is
beyond the [Jayhūn] river") passed into Persian literary
usage and stayed on until post-Mongol times.[3]
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 24584--------------------------------------------------
Re: Islamic Golden Age - Philosophy and Humanities
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 25, 2023, 6:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Possibly, but I would more narrowly attribute Avicenna's
Aristotelianism to Turanian blood:
--- Quote ---
> Avicenna was attempting to "re-Aristotelianise" Muslim
philosophy in its entirety, unlike his predecessors, who
accepted the conflation of Platonic, Aristotelian, Neo- and
Middle-Platonic
--- End Quote ---
If you want to bolster your claim, it would be better to compare
Persia with less Turanized countries in the same period which
also had access to classical Greek writings but which did not
develop on them. But even then it would remain tenuous as there
can be so many other possible reasons for why something did not
happen.
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