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#Post#: 5493--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: guest5 Date: April 11, 2021, 3:06 pm
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Lance-Corporal Hitler - WW1 Trench Runner
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJQQnm-WEFc
Hitler clearly was no coward nor was he a terrible artist.
#Post#: 6320--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: rp Date: May 12, 2021, 8:08 pm
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Battle of Berlin (Soviet untermenschen take Berlin):
HTML https://youtu.be/SgHWSJBlnas
On a side note what do you think of the BGM?
#Post#: 6323--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: guest5 Date: May 12, 2021, 10:06 pm
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[quote]On a side note what do you think of the BGM?[/quote]
Eh, personally I'm more of a hip-hop, trip-hop, and EDM fan....
I always felt this song in particular would go great with a
NSDAP film purely for it's lyrics alone:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nxWP9BhI7w
Ohh, can't anybody see
We've got a war to fight
Never found our way
Regardless of what they say
How can it feel, this wrong
From this moment
How can it feel, this wrong
Storm in the morning light
I feel
No more can I say
Frozen to myself
I got nobody on my side
And surely that ain't right
Surely that ain't right
Ohh, can't anybody see
We've got a war to fight
Never found our way
Regardless of what they say
How can it feel, this wrong
From this moment
How can it feel, this wrong
How can it feel, this wrong
From this moment
How can it feel, this wrong
Ohh, can't anybody see
We've got a war to fight
Never found our way
Regardless of what they say
How can it feel, this wrong
From this moment
How can it feel, this wrong
#Post#: 6435--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: Dazhbog Date: May 16, 2021, 6:42 am
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[quote author=rp link=topic=40.msg6320#msg6320
date=1620868114]On a side note what do you think of the
BGM?[/quote]
The first 40 seconds are okay, though I would have still
preferred that part to be played on synthesizers rather than by
a real life string section. Afterwards, this typical Western
grandiosity sets in, if somewhat more restrained than in the
pieces discussed in the "Birth of Civilization..."-thread.
I think the BGM does a swell job depicting the Battle of Berlin
from an Allied point of view. The pompousness of the composition
accurately captures the sense of self-aggrandizement with which
Western subhumans reflect on their triumphs over us.
I guess some of the melodies are supposed to give of a more
melancholic vibe, maybe to commemorate the "losses" it took to
achieve this "great victory". This fails miserably, however, as
even in these moments the score never drops its pretentiousness.
Of course, this very fact makes them an entirely fitting tribute
to the Allied henchman rightfully sent to hell by our army.
Scoring this emotionally devastating footage of our empire in
ruins, its capital crawling with the subhuman Turanian hordes,
our soldiers taken POW and our people desperately sifting
through the charred remains of their livelihoods (as our people
in Palestine are currently doing once again...) from our point
of view, I suggest one of the following pieces:
[spoiler]
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAD1j32TiiY[/spoiler]
[spoiler]
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5ebDdcE0To[/spoiler]
[spoiler]
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZeX8-bT9B0[/spoiler]
[spoiler]
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX_cBL-hoM0[/spoiler]
[quote author=NuminousSun link=topic=40.msg6323#msg6323
date=1620875191]Portishead - Roads[/quote]
Love it, thanks for posting!
#Post#: 6579--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: Zea_mays Date: May 21, 2021, 1:23 am
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One thing that is always taught about WWII is the German
"territorial aggression", "Lebensraum", etc. But not too long
ago I learned Poland had its own version of "Lebensraum".
Immediately after receiving independence, Poland went to war
with the USSR in order to gain more territory!
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War
March 1919, a month after the beginning of the war (and only a
few months after receiving independence!):
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/PBW_March_1919.svg/1280px-PBW_March_1919.svg.png
June 1920, Poland's approximate furthest advance eastward:
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/PBW_June_1920.png/1280px-PBW_June_1920.png
Hmm..
[quote]At the height of the Polish–Soviet conflict, Jews were
subjected to antisemitic violence by Polish forces, who
considered them a potential threat and often accused of
supporting the Bolsheviks.[84][85] During the Battle of Warsaw,
the Polish authorities interned Jewish soldiers and volunteers
and sent them to an internment camp.[86][87] [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War
[quote]In 1919, Russian Jews were caught in the middle of a
civil war, and became the victims of warring Red and White
Russian, Ukrainian and Polish forces, among others, resulting in
the loss of an estimated 100,000 Jewish lives.[16] White Russian
troops led by Denikin staged pogroms against Jews in practically
every town he captured.[17] In Ukraine at this time, murders of
Jews took place on an unprecedented scale, second only to the
Holocaust years of World War II.[18]
[...]
However, reports of these incidents caused the United States to
send a commission led by Henry Morgenthau, Sr. and Sir Stuart M.
Samuel to investigate.[/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_of_the_Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War
--
Józef Piłsudski, de facto leader of Poland from 1918 until
his death in 1935 (serving as commander of the military, Prime
Minister, and later military dictator), and Józef Beck (foreign
policy minister of Poland in the 1930s) both wanted to recreate
the Polish-Lithuanian empire, break Russia/the USSR up along
ethnic lines, and even go so far as to create a large federation
of central European powers (with Poland in the lead) in order to
make Poland the dominant power in Europe.
The project of Polish territorial domination was called
Intermarium, while the geopolitical plan to destabilize
Russia/USSR and other powers via promoting ethno-tribalism
within their borders was called Prometheism.
The initial plan:
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Intermarium_Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth.png
Which quickly expanded:
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Intermarium.png
And expanded even further!!
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Intermarium_revised.png
That's more territory than those wacky Nazis took during their
"plan for global domination". How would this period in Polish
history have been taught in schools if Poland lost the war???
[quote]Prospectively a federation[1][2][3][4][5] of Central and
Eastern European countries, the post-World War I Intermarium
plan pursued by Polish leader and former political prisoner of
the Russian Empire, Józef Piłsudski (1867–1935), sought to
recruit to the proposed federation the Baltic states (Lithuania,
Latvia, Estonia), Finland,[6] Belarus, Ukraine, Hungary,
Romania, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia.[7][8]
[...]
Intermarium was, however, perceived by some Lithuanians as a
threat to their newly established independence, and by some
Ukrainians as a threat to their aspirations for independence,
[...]
Józef Piłsudski's strategic goal was to resurrect an
updated, democratic form of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth,
while working for the disintegration of the Russian Empire, and
later the Soviet Union, into its ethnic constituents.[29] (The
latter was his Prometheist project.)[29] Piłsudski saw an
Intermarium federation as a counterweight to Russian and German
imperialism.[30][31]
[...]
The Lithuanians,[35][37] who had re-established their
independence in 1918, were unwilling to join; the Ukrainians,
similarly seeking independence,[19] likewise feared that Poland
might again subjugate them;[35] and the Belarusians, who had
little national consciousness and were mostly Russophiles, were
similarly not interested either in independence or in
Piłsudski's proposals of union.[35] The chances for
Piłsudski's scheme were not enhanced by a series of
post-World War I wars and border conflicts between Poland and
its neighbors in disputed territories—the Polish-Soviet War, the
Polish–Lithuanian War, the Polish–Ukrainian War, and border
conflicts between Poland and Czechoslovakia.
Piłsudski's concept was opposed within Poland itself, where
National Democracy leader Roman Dmowski[38][39] argued for an
ethnically homogeneous Poland in which minorities would be
Polonized.[40][41] Many Polish politicians, including Dmowski,
opposed the idea of a multiethnic federation, preferring instead
to work for a unitary Polish nation-state.[39] Sanford has
described Piłsudski's policies after his resumption of
power in 1926 as similarly focusing on the Polonization of the
country's Eastern Slavic minorities and on the centralization of
power.[33]
While some scholars accept at face value the democratic
principles claimed by Piłsudski for his federative
plan,[42] others view such claims with skepticism, pointing out
a coup d'état in 1926 when Piłsudski assumed nearly
dictatorial powers.[13][43] In particular, his project is viewed
unfavorably by most Ukrainian historians, with Oleksandr
Derhachov arguing that the federation would have created a
greater Poland in which the interests of non-Poles, especially
Ukrainians, would have received short shrift.[15]
[...]
He did not hesitate to use military force to expand Poland's
borders to Galicia and Volhynia, crushing a Ukrainian attempt at
self-determination in disputed territories east of the Bug River
which contained a substantial Polish presence[46] (a Polish
majority mainly in cities such as Lwów, surrounded by a rural
Ukrainian majority).
Speaking of Poland's future frontiers, Piłsudski said: "All
that we can gain in the west depends on the Entente—on the
extent to which it may wish to squeeze Germany," while in the
east "there are doors that open and close, and it depends on who
forces them open and how far."[47] In the eastern chaos, the
Polish forces set out to expand as far as feasible. On the other
hand, Poland had no interest in joining the western intervention
in the Russian Civil War[46] or in conquering Russia itself.[48]
[...]
Piłsudski died in 1935. A later, much reduced version of
his concept was attempted by interwar Polish Foreign Minister
Józef Beck, a Piłsudski protégé. His proposal, during the
late 1930s, of a "Third Europe"—an alliance of Poland, Romania
and Hungary—gained little ground before World War II
supervened.[49][/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermarium
"Third Europe"? Wow, what does that remind you of? You really
can't make this up.
The Polish government-in-exile continued this plan during WWII,
and the V4 in many ways is a present-day attempt revive it,
which is noted on the Wiki page:
[quote]The concept of a "Central [and Eastern] European Union"—
a triangular geopolitical entity anchored in the Baltic, Black,
and Adriatic or Aegean Seas—was revived during World War II in
Władysław Sikorski's Polish Government in Exile.
[...]
On 12 May 2011, the Visegrád Group countries (Poland, Czech
Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary) announced the formation of a
Visegrád Battlegroup under Poland's command. The battlegroup was
in place by 2016 as an independent force, not part of the NATO
command. In addition, starting in 2013, the four countries were
to begin joint military exercises under the auspices of the NATO
Response Force. Some scholars saw this as a first step toward
close Central European regional cooperation.[56]
On 6 August 2015, Polish President Andrzej Duda, in his
inaugural address, announced plans to build a regional alliance
of Central European states, modeled on the Intermarium
concept.[57][58][59] In 2016 the Three Seas Initiative held an
initial summit meeting in Dubrovnik, Croatia.[60] The Three Seas
Initiative has 12 member states along a north–south axis from
the Baltic Sea to the Adriatic Sea and the Black Sea: Estonia,
Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Austria,
Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria. [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermarium#World_War_II_and_since
This is the future V4:
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Three_Seas_Initiative.svg/600px-Three_Seas_Initiative.svg.png
[quote]The current initiative is influenced by the Polish
interwar Intermarium concept. The modern Three Seas Initiative
was launched in 2015 by Polish President Andrzej Duda and
Croatian President Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović.[3] It held its
first summit in Dubrovnik (Croatia) on 25–26 August 2016. The
two-day event ended with a declaration of co-operation in
economic matters, particularly in the field of energy as well as
transport and communications infrastructure.[2]
[...]
Perception
Czech Republic
The Three Seas Initiative was at the beginning perceived by
local experts and diplomats in the Czech Republic rather
negatively. It was seen as a Polish attempt to create its sphere
of influence (similar to the historical perception of
Intermarium). Further fears were related to a possibility of
deepening the East-West division in the EU and exclusion of
Germany. A long term Czech objection is that there should be no
competing geopolitical project in the region that would weaken
the EU. Some of those objections have been partially addressed
lately also due to a good experience with cooperation on
infrastructure projects in the Visegrad group.[34]
Finland
The populist Finns Party has advocated for Finland to join the
initiative.[35] [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Seas_Initiative
[quote]Prometheism or Prometheanism (Polish: Prometeizm) was a
political project initiated by Józef Piłsudski, statesman
of the Second Polish Republic from 1918 to 1935. Its aim was to
weaken the Russian Empire and its successor states, including
the Soviet Union, by supporting nationalist independence
movements among the major non-Russian peoples that lived within
the borders of Russia and the Soviet Union.[1]
Between the World Wars, Prometheism and Piłsudski's other
concept, of an "Intermarium federation", constituted two
complementary geopolitical strategies for him and for some of
his political heirs.[2]
[...]
A brief history of Poland's Promethean endeavor was set down on
February 12, 1940, by Edmund Charaszkiewicz, a Polish military
intelligence officer whose responsibilities from 1927 until the
outbreak of World War II in Europe in September 1939 had
included the coordination of Poland's Promethean program.
Charaszkiewicz wrote his paper in Paris after escaping from a
Poland overrun by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.[4]
The creator and soul of the Promethean concept [wrote
Charaszkiewicz] was Marshal Piłsudski, who as early as
1904, in a memorandum to the Japanese government, pointed out
the need to employ, in the struggle against Russia, the numerous
non-Russian nations that inhabited the basins of the Baltic,
Black and Caspian Seas, and emphasized that the Polish nation,
by virtue of its history, love of freedom, and uncompromising
stance toward [the three empires that had partitioned Poland out
of political existence at the end of the 18th century] would, in
that struggle, doubtless take a leading place and help work the
emancipation of other nations oppressed by Russia.[5]
A key excerpt from Piłsudski's 1904 memorandum declared:
Poland's strength and importance among the constituent parts
of the Russian state embolden us to set ourselves the political
goal of breaking up the Russian state into its main constituents
and emancipating the countries that have been forcibly
incorporated into that empire. We regard this not only as the
fulfilment of our country's cultural strivings for independent
existence, but also as a guarantee of that existence, since a
Russia divested of her conquests will be sufficiently weakened
that she will cease to be a formidable and dangerous
neighbor.[6][/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheism
#Post#: 6580--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: Zea_mays Date: May 21, 2021, 1:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Further information on Piłsudski's life and views.
Allegedly he asked France to join him in launching a war with
Germany immediately after Hitler came to power! If Germany had
won WWII, there is no doubt history would have been framed very
differently, and Germany's actions toward Poland would have been
framed as a retaliation against Piłsudski's aggression
towards Germany and his aggressive geopolitical aims. Hitler
even offered Poland an alliance multiple times, yet
Piłsudski refused it, apparently still believing Poland
could rise to rival both Germany and the USSR.
[quote]Józef Klemens Piłsudski (5 December 1867 – 12 May
1935) was a Polish statesman who served as the Chief of State
(1918–1922) and First Marshal of Poland (from 1920). He was
considered the de facto leader (1926–35) of the Second Polish
Republic as the Minister of Military Affairs. After World War I,
he held great power in Polish politics and was a distinguished
figure on the international scene.[1] He is viewed as a father
of the Second Polish Republic re-established in 1918
[...]
After the Polish Constitution of March 1921 severely limited the
powers of the presidency intentionally, to prevent a President
Piłsudski from waging war. He declined to run for the
office.[20]
[...]
Two days later, on 16 December 1922, Narutowicz was shot dead by
a right-wing painter and art critic, Eligiusz Niewiadomski, who
had originally wanted to kill Piłsudski but had changed his
target, influenced by National Democrat anti-Narutowicz
propaganda.[105]
For Piłsudski, that was a major shock, which shook his
belief that Poland could function as a democracy[106] and made
him support government by a strong hand.[107]
[...]
When the Chjeno-Piast coalition, which Piłsudski had
strongly criticized, formed a new government,[20] on 12–14 May
1926, Piłsudski returned to power in a coup d'état (the May
Coup), supported by the Polish Socialist Party, Liberation, the
Peasant Party and even the Polish Communist Party.[113]
Piłsudski had hoped for a bloodless coup, but the
government had refused to back down;[114] 215 soldiers and 164
civilians had been killed, and over 900 persons had been
wounded.[115]
[...]
A supporter of the Franco-Polish Military Alliance and the
Polish–Romanian alliance, part of the Little Entente,
Piłsudski was disappointed by the policy of appeasement
pursued by the French and British governments, evident in their
signing of the Locarno Treaties.[144][147][148] The Locarno
treaties were intended by the British government to ensure a
peaceful handover the territories claimed by Germany such as the
Sudetenland, the Polish Corridor, and the Free City of Danzig
(modern Gdańsk, Poland) by improving Franco-German
relations to such extent that France would dissolve its
alliances in eastern Europe.[149] Piłsudski felt a profound
sense of abandonment by France after Locarno. Piłsudski,
therefore, aimed also to maintain good relations with the Soviet
Union and Germany.
A recurring fear of Piłsudski was that France would reach
an agreement with Germany at the expense of Poland.
[...]
In June 1932, just before the Lausanne Conference opened,
Piłsudski heard (correct) reports that the new German
chancellor Franz von Papen was about to make an offer for a
Franco-German alliance to the French Premier Édouard Herriot
which would be at the expense of Poland.[152] In response
Piłsudski sent the destroyer ORP Wicher into the harbour of
the Free City of Danzig (modern Gdańsk).[152] Through the
issue was ostensibly about access rights for the Polish Navy in
Danzig, the real purpose of sending Wircher was as a way to warn
Herriot not to take Poland for granted as he talked to
Papen.[152] The ensuring Danzig crisis sent the desired message
to the French and improved the Polish Navy's access rights to
Danzig.[152]
[...]
After Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany in January 1933,
Piłsudski is rumored to have proposed to France a
preventive war against Germany. It has been argued that
Piłsudski may have been sounding out France regarding
possible joint military action against Germany.[158]
[...]
Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the
Soviet Union, but Piłsudski declined, instead seeking
precious time to prepare for a potential war with either Germany
or the Soviet Union.
[...]
After the fall of communism and the 1991 disintegration of the
Soviet Union, Piłsudski once again came to be publicly
acknowledged as a Polish national hero.[187] On the sixtieth
anniversary of his death, on 12 May 1995, Poland's Sejm adopted
a resolution: "Józef Piłsudski will remain, in our nation's
memory, the founder of its independence and the victorious
leader who fended off a foreign assault that threatened the
whole of Europe and its civilization. Józef Piłsudski
served his country well and has entered our history
forever."[188]
[/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Pi%C5%82sudski
Józef Beck supported many of Hitler's requests to refine
post-WWI borders. Poland even invaded Czechoslovakia and
attempted to distinigrate it by promoting Slovak indpendence.
But, of course, since the Allies won WWII you will only hear
about Germany doing such things, not Poland.
[quote]Józef Beck (4 October 1894 – 5 June 1944) was a Polish
statesman who served the Second Republic of Poland as a diplomat
and military officer, and was a close associate of Józef
Piłsudski. Beck is most famous for being Polish foreign
minister in the 1930s, when he largely set Polish foreign
policy.
He tried to fulfill Piłsudski's dream of making Poland the
leader of a regional coalition, but he was widely disliked and
distrusted by other governments.[1][2] He was involved in
territorial disputes with Lithuania and Czechoslovakia.
[...]
He explored the possibility of realizing Piłsudski's
concept of Międzymorze ("Between-seas"): a federation of
central and eastern European countries stretching from the
Baltic to the Black Seas, indeed in later variants, from the
Arctic Ocean to the Mediterranean. Such a coalition between
Germany in the west and the Soviet Union in the east might have
been strong enough to deter both from military intervention.
Beck realised that for the immediate future there was no
realistic chance of building such a force and so he was prepared
to settle in 1937–38 for a diplomatic bloc referred to as a
"Third Europe," led by Poland, which might become the nucleus of
a Międzymorze federation. Beck's "Third Europe" diplomatic
concept comprised a bloc of Poland, Italy, Yugoslavia, Hungary
and Romania.[13]
[...]
From 1935 to 1939, Beck supported German claims against
Czechoslovakia by citing purported mistreatment of Polish
minorities in Czechoslovakia.[citation needed] In 1937, he began
a diplomatic offensive in favour of Slovak independence.[15] He
supported Hitler's position in the Munich agreement in 1938.
Within days, Poland invaded and seized Teschen, an industrial
district of Czechoslovakia with 240,000 people, many of them
ethnic Poles.[15][16][/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Beck
#Post#: 6582--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: Zea_mays Date: May 21, 2021, 2:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Lastly, let's not forget settler-colonialism in the Russian
Empire and USSR, and their respective geopolitical and
territorial ambitions.
The USSR's territorial goals during their invasion of Poland (of
course, the Allies never declared war on the USSR for their
invasion, and they let the USSR keep their conquered territory
after WWII!) was basically to take the Intermarium region.
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Ribbentrop-Molotov.svg/1024px-Ribbentrop-Molotov.svg.png
Which is territory the Russian Empire lost to the Central Powers
after WWI:
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Map_Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk-en.jpg
Yet all we hear about is Germany's territorial ambitions in
WWII... To this day, WWII veterans and their descendants from
the Baltic states who fought the USSR alongside Germany would
disagree with how this is framed:
[quote]The pact was terminated on 22 June 1941, when Germany
launched Operation Barbarossa and invaded the Soviet Union, in
pursuit of the ideological goal of Lebensraum.[13] After the
war, Ribbentrop was convicted of war crimes at the Nuremberg
trials and executed. Molotov died in 1986. [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact
The USSR was kicked out of the league of nations for their
invasion of Finland, which rarely ever receives mentions in
standard history classes:
[quote]On December 14, 1939, the League of Nations, the
international peacekeeping organization formed at the end of
World War I, expels the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in
response to the Soviets’ invasion of Finland on November 30.
[...]
Germany and Japan voluntarily withdrew from the League in 1933,
and Italy left in 1937. The true imperial designs of the Soviet
Union soon became apparent with its occupation of eastern Poland
in September of 1939, ostensibly with the intention of
protecting Russian “blood brothers,” Ukrainians and
Byelorussians, who were supposedly menaced by the Poles.
Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia were then terrorized into signing
“mutual assistance” pacts, primarily one-sided agreements that
gave the USSR air and naval bases in those countries. But the
invasion of Finland, where no provocation or pact could credibly
be adduced to justify the aggression, resulted in worldwide
reaction.[/quote]
HTML https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ussr-expelled-from-the-league-of-nations
The Soviets were allowed to keep the territory they took from
Finland:
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Finnish_areas_ceded_in_1940.png
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
You will always hear of Germany's non-existent aim of "global
domination" during WWII. You will not as frequently hear about
how, you know, the USSR was a communist state advocating for
global communist revolutions...
Why do history textbooks focus on some fantasy of Germany
controlling the entire globe when the communist bloc led by the
USSR literally had this.
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Soviet_empire_1960.png/480px-Soviet_empire_1960.png
There were even concerns that France would fall to communism
after WWII. The high-ranking French general, and later
high-ranking NATO commander, Alphonse Juin confided to American
General Patton that he was deeply disappointed WWII had
destroyed Germany, which Juin viewed as the only nation which
soundly opposed the USSR.
[quote]"At dinner with [French] General [Alphonse] Juin, the
remarkable statement was made by him to me that "It is indeed
unfortunate, my General, that the English and Americans have
destroyed in Europe the only sound country--and I do not mean
France--and therefore the road is now open for the advent of
Russian Communism.""[1]
[1] Patton's diary. Entry August 18, 1945.[/quote]
--
After the collapse of the Chinese Empire in 1911, Tuva gained
independence. After they became anti-USSR, the USSR organized a
coup and later annexed the nation:
[quote]
The 1929 Tuvan coup d'état took place in the Tuvan People's
Republic. It occurred in January after the Tuvan government
under Prime Minister Donduk Kuular attempted to implement
nationalist, religious and anti-Soviet policies, including
making Tibetan Buddhism the official religion. With support from
the Soviet Union, five Tuvan youths successfully overthrew the
government, and one of them, Salchak Toka, became supreme ruler
as General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Tuvan
People's Revolutionary Party. They quickly reversed Donduk's
policies and brought the republic closer to the Soviet Union.
The Tuvan People's Republic later joined the Soviet Union in
1944. [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Tuvan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
Mongolia also gained independence. The Russian general Roman von
Ungern-Sternberg led the rebel forces to secure Mongolian
independence. Soon after, Bolshevik forces overthrew his
government and executed him.
[quote] often referred to as Baron Ungern, was an anticommunist
general in the Russian Civil War and then an independent warlord
who intervened in Mongolia against China. A part of the Russian
Empire's Baltic German minority, Ungern was an ultraconservative
monarchist who aspired to restore the Russian monarchy after the
1917 Russian Revolutions and to revive the Mongol Empire under
the rule of the Bogd Khan. His attraction to Vajrayana Buddhism
and his eccentric, often violent, treatment of enemies and his
own men earned him the sobriquet "the Mad Baron" or "the Bloody
Baron".
In February 1921, at the head of the Asiatic Cavalry Division,
Ungern expelled Chinese troops from Mongolia and restored the
monarchic power of the Bogd Khan. During his five-month
occupation of Outer Mongolia, Ungern imposed order on the
capital city, Ikh Khüree (now Ulaanbaatar), by fear,
intimidation and brutal violence against his opponents,
particularly the Bolsheviks. In June 1921, he travelled to
eastern Siberia to support anti-Bolshevik partisan forces and to
head off a joint Red Army-Mongolian rebel invasion. That action
ultimately led to his defeat and capture two months later. He
was taken prisoner by the Red Army and, a month later, was put
on trial for "counter-revolution" in Novonikolaevsk. After a
six-hour show trial, he was found guilty and on 15 September
1921 he was executed.
[...]
The Bolsheviks started infiltrating Mongolia shortly after the
October Revolution, long before they took control of the Russian
Transbaikal. In 1921, various Red Army units belonging to Soviet
Russia and to the Far Eastern Republic invaded the newly
independent Mongolia to defeat Ungern. The forces included the
Red Mongolian leader Damdin Sükhbaatar. [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_von_Ungern-Sternberg
Although Mongolia was never annexed by the USSR, it was firmly a
puppet:
[quote]In 1934, Peljidiin Genden visited Moscow and angrily
accused Stalin of "Red imperialism". He subsequently died in the
Great Purge after being tricked into taking a holiday on the
Black Sea. [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_People's_Republic
The Soviets tried to make Xinjiang a puppet as well, although
they expelled the Soviets in 1943.
--
Moving on, the Russian Empire and the USSR pursued settler
colonialism of ethnic Russians in the Baltic states, Ukraine,
and elsewhere.
Map from 2011 showing the percentage of ethnic Russians in the
Baltic states. Undoubtedly this was much higher during the
Soviet period:
HTML https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Julija-Oleinika/publication/288344208/figure/fig1/AS:311379811684352@1451250140701/Percentage-of-ethnic-Russians-in-the-Baltic-states-2011.png
HTML https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Percentage-of-ethnic-Russians-in-the-Baltic-states-2011_fig1_288344208
HTML https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f9/b7/d4/f9b7d4bc88d3324a8946b22291a8b3b9.png
Briefly searching, I stumbled across some research papers
raising the important fact that studies examining colonialism in
the USSR are severely lacking:
[quote]This essay works through some of the necessary
preliminary questions in thinking about Soviet colonialism in
the Baltics. It opens by tracing the prehistory of critical
thinking about Soviet colonialism in the 1960s and considers why
the topic of Soviet colonialism has not (or not yet) become a
dominant way to understand Soviet history. The central question
posed by the article is whether one can speak about the Soviet
invasions of the Baltic States as ‘colonization’. It proposes
that, initially, communist Russia did not in fact seek to
colonize the Baltic States and instead ‘occupied’ them; however,
this initial period of occupation later developed into a period
of a colonial rule.[/quote]
HTML https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233431195_The_Problem_of_Soviet_Colonialism_in_the_Baltics
HTML https://www.jstor.org/stable/43212457?seq=1
[quote]
Political repressions followed with mass deportations of around
130,000 citizens carried out by the Soviets.[3]:48 The Serov
Instructions, "On the Procedure for carrying out the Deportation
of Anti-Soviet Elements from Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia",
contained detailed procedures and protocols to observe in the
deportation of Baltic nationals. [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_occupation_of_the_Baltic_states_(1940)#Sovietization_of_the_Baltic_states
The USA and many other nations never recognized the official
sovereignty of the USSR over the Baltic states. Somehow the USA
was staunch enough in its position that it never even recognized
that the USSR 'de facto' controlled the Baltic states. But,
again, the brief war time occupations by Germany somehow get
chapters upon chapters in the textbooks, but I didn't even
realize basically the whole world refused to accept the USSR's
control over the Baltic states until writing this.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_continuity_of_the_Baltic_states
Light blue, orange, and yellow = did not legally recognize
Soviet control of the Baltic states. Dark blue = states which
never took an official position.
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Map_of_non_recogntion_of_the_Baltic_states.png/1024px-Map_of_non_recogntion_of_the_Baltic_states.png
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_non_recogntion_of_the_Baltic_states.png
[quote]The Welles Declaration was a diplomatic statement issued
on July 23, 1940, by Sumner Welles, the acting US Secretary of
State, condemning the June 1940 occupation by the Soviet Union
of the three Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania) and
refusing to recognize their annexation as Soviet
republics.[1][/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welles_Declaration
--
I don't feel like writing a huge analysis on this at the moment,
but the type of settler colonialism which happened in the
Baltics has also allowed Russia to seize Crimea and start ethnic
conflicts in eastern Ukraine today.
For example, this paper seems to put forward the thesis that
Russia's recent occupation of Crimea is something that has been
long in the making:
[quote]The focus is on Crimea as a settler colony during the
first years after the USSR’s collapse. The main argument is that
the 1990s conflict in Crimea was mainly around decolonization
attempts and resistance by the settler colonial system. Contrary
to the analysis of ‘conflicts that did not happen’ it argues
that Crimea is a case of a conflict that never stoppedsince the
late 18th century. It analyses how settler colonial structures
fought for their own preservation in opposition to the forces of
decolonization represented by the Ukrainian and Crimean Tatar
national movements, maneuvering between the Russian and
Ukrainian capitals, which in turn triggered perceptions of
Crimean separatism.
A main theme is control over the narrative. Crimean settler
colonial institutions maintained their monopoly over ‘the truth’
about the peninsula’s past and present. This dissertation
demonstrates how this continued in the 1990s, how Crimean
newspapers forged the meaning of ‘Crimean,’ redesigned
boundaries of inclusion and exclusion in order to marginalize
Ukrainian and Crimean Tatar activists. Another important issue
is the role of hybrid institutions including government
structures in Crimea and the Black Sea Fleet, both which
conducted subversive operations (informational and military) to
counter and reduce the growing presence of the Ukrainian state
on the peninsula.[/quote]
HTML https://ir.lib.uwo.ca/etd/7077/
What helped ethnic Russians in the USSR gain more control over
Ukraine? The holo-what?
[quote]The Holodomor (Ukrainian: moryty holodom, 'to kill by
starvation'),[a][3][4][5] also known as the
Terror-Famine[6][7][8] and sometimes referred to as the Great
Famine,[9] was a famine in Soviet Ukraine from 1932 to 1933 that
killed millions of Ukrainians. The term Holodomor emphasises the
famine's man-made and intentional aspects such as rejection of
outside aid, confiscation of all household foodstuffs and
restriction of population movement. As part of the wider Soviet
famine of 1932–33 which affected the major grain-producing areas
of the country, millions of inhabitants of Ukraine, the majority
of whom were ethnic Ukrainians, died of starvation in a
peacetime catastrophe unprecedented in the history of
Ukraine.[10] Since 2006, the Holodomor has been recognized by
Ukraine[11] and 15 other countries as a genocide of the
Ukrainian people carried out by the Soviet government.[12]
Early estimates of the death toll by scholars and government
officials varied greatly.[13] According to higher estimates, up
to 12 million[14] ethnic Ukrainians were said to have perished
as a result of the famine. A United Nations joint statement
signed by 25 countries in 2003 declared that 7–10 million
perished.[15]
[...]
Whether the Holodomor was genocide is still the subject of
academic debate,[/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
Depopulation from the famine. It is not clear if this is only
deaths, or deaths + people being displaced.
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Ukraine_famine_map.png/1024px-Ukraine_famine_map.png
[quote]Some scholars have classified the famine in Ukraine and
famine in Kazakhstan as genocide committed by Joseph Stalin's
government,[19][20] targeting ethnic Ukrainians and Kazakhs
while other critics dispute the relevance of any ethnic
motivation, as is frequently implied by that term, and focus
instead on the class dynamics between land-owning peasants
(kulaks) with strong political interest in private property, and
the ruling Communist Party's fundamental tenets which were
diametrically opposed to those interests.[21] In addition to the
Kazakh famine of 1919–1922, these events saw Kazakhstan lose
more than half of its population within 15 years. The famine
made Kazakhs a minority in their own republic. Before the
famine, around 60% of the republic's population were Kazakhs,
but after the famine, only around 38% of the population were
Kazakhs.[22][23][/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333
[quote]The Kazakh famine of 1931–1933, also known as the Kazakh
catastrophe, Asharshylyk and Zulmat[9] was a famine where 1.5
million (other sources state as many as 2.0–2.3 million[10])
people died in Soviet Kazakhstan, of whom 1.3 million were
ethnic Kazakhs; 38% of all Kazakhs died, the highest percentage
of any ethnic group killed in the Soviet famine of
1932–33.[3][7] Some historians assume that 42% of the entire
Kazakh population died in the famine.[11][/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_famine_of_1931%E2%80%931933
What, cattle cars? Nations with rail infrastructure using trains
instead of forcing people to just walk?
[quote]
The deportation of the Crimean Tatars was the ethnic cleansing
and cultural genocide of at least 191,044 Crimean Tatars in
18–20 May 1944 carried out by the Soviet government, ordered by
Lavrentiy Beria, head of the Soviet state security and secret
police, acting on behalf of Joseph Stalin.[11][12][13][14]
Within three days, the NKVD used cattle trains to deport mostly
women, children, the elderly, even Communists and members of the
Red Army, to mostly the Uzbek SSR, several thousand kilometres
away. They were one of the several ethnicities who were
encompassed by Stalin's policy of population transfer in the
Soviet Union.
The deportation officially was intended as collective punishment
for the perceived collaboration of some Crimean Tatars with Nazi
Germany; modern sources theorize that the deportation was part
of the Soviet plan to gain access to the Dardanelles and acquire
territory in Turkey where the Tatars had Turkic ethnic kin.
[...]
In 1956, the new Soviet leader, Nikita Khrushchev, condemned
Stalin's policies, including the deportation of various ethnic
groups, but did not lift the directive forbidding the return of
the Crimean Tatars, despite allowing the right of return for
most other deported peoples. They remained in Central Asia for
several more decades until the Perestroika era in the late 1980s
when 260,000 Crimean Tatars returned to Crimea. Their exile
lasted 45 years. The ban on their return was officially declared
null and void, and the Supreme Council of Crimea declared on 14
November 1989 that the deportations had been a crime.
By 2004, sufficient numbers of Crimean Tatars had returned to
Crimea that they comprised 12 percent of the peninsula's
population. Soviet authorities neither assisted their return nor
compensated them for the land they lost. The Russian Federation,
the successor state of the USSR, did not provide reparations,
compensate those deported for lost property, or file legal
proceedings against the perpetrators of the forced resettlement.
The deportation was a crucial event in the history of the
Crimean Tatars and has come to be seen as a symbol of the plight
and oppression of smaller ethnic groups by the Soviet Union. On
12 December 2015, the Ukrainian Parliament issued a resolution
recognizing this event as genocide and established 18 May as the
"Day of Remembrance for the victims of the Crimean Tatar
genocide". [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars
I keep stumbling across so many articles about things I've never
even heard of before, even though I am generally interested in
WWII history. Thank you politically-motivated Western
revisionist history curriculum for never mentioning any of this.
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/Karte_Entkulakisierung.png/1024px-Karte_Entkulakisierung.png
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Koreans_in_the_Soviet_Union
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Soviet_Greeks
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Soviet_Greeks
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union
#Post#: 6642--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: Zea_mays Date: May 23, 2021, 6:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Polish propaganda from 1931 celebrating how the percent of
ethnic Germans had dramatically decreased in Polish territory.
You've probably seen a comparable piece of German propaganda in
a history textbook, but never one from an 'Allied' nation.
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/Nalot_niemczyzny_1910_1931.jpg
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nalot_niemczyzny_1910_1931.jpg
--
Don't even get me started about the ethnic cleansing of German
civilians after WWII by the Allied nations. I learned about this
after looking into history myself during a mandatory "Holocaust
education unit" in school (yes, it's mandatory to teach this in
most grade levels in many US states while education on the
extermination of Native Americans is not), and I was just so
perplexed as to why this wasn't even mentioned if the entire
point of 'educating' us on this part of WWII was to tell us
ethnic cleansing was bad.
In school, I wrote a paper on it and became indescribably
disgusted when I kept seeing people say these civilians deserved
to be ethnically cleansed by the "good guys" in revenge for
simply being born into the wrong ethnic group. I think this is
when I learned that the ideologies and nations which were
classified as the "good guys" in WWII were not considered good
because they genuinely had admirable principles, but simply
because they won and got to write their own history. They did
all the same things they accused Germany of doing, but were able
to write their own crimes out of the standard history
curriculum.
The chilling fact is that the victorious powers conducted the
largest ethnic cleansing in 'European' history:
[quote]With at least 12 million Germans directly involved,
possibly 14 million or more, it was the largest movement or
transfer of any single ethnic population in European history and
the largest among the post-war expulsions in Central and Eastern
Europe (which displaced 20 to 31 million people in
total).[/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944–1950)
The following article states the ethnic cleansing of Germans was
the largest in world history, although it also suggests
conflicts during the partitioning of Pakistan and Bangladesh
reached comparable numbers. (Additionally, the destruction of
Native Americans, which spanned several centuries, killed tens
of millions more people. The Transatlantic slave trade
"transferred" over 12 million slaves over multiple centuries as
well.).
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer
Apparently by their own definitions, the Allies committed the
largest war crime of WWII with this ethnic cleansing:
[quote]George Orwell, in his 1946 essay "Politics and the
English Language" (written during the World War II evacuation
and expulsions in Europe), observed:
"In our time, political speech and writing are largely the
defence of the indefensible. Things... can indeed be defended,
but only by arguments which are too brutal for most people to
face, and which do not square with the professed aims of
political parties. Thus political language has to consist
largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy
vagueness.... Millions of peasants are robbed of their farms and
sent trudging along the roads with no more than they can carry:
this is called transfer of population or rectification of
frontiers."
[...]
The tide started to turn when the Charter of the Nuremberg
Trials of German Nazi leaders declared forced deportation of
civilian populations to be both a war crime and a crime against
humanity.[4]
[...]
There is now little debate about the general legal status of
involuntary population transfers: "Where population transfers
used to be accepted as a means to settle ethnic conflict, today,
forced population transfers are considered violations of
international law."[5]
[...]
Timothy V. Waters argues, in "On the Legal Construction of
Ethnic Cleansing," that the expulsions of the ethnic German
population east of the Oder-Neisse line the Sudetenland and
elsewhere in Eastern Europe without legal redress has set a
legal precedent that can permit future ethnic cleansing of other
populations under international law.[10] [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer#Changes_in_international_law
...Wait, the reason the "good guys" ethnically cleansed tens of
millions of people after WWII was to achieve "ethnically-pure"
nations??? Obviously, that is an unacceptable reason to deport
and kill civilians. However, ...isn't this motive the exact same
thing that Western history textbooks tell us made 'Nazi Germany'
a uniquely evil nation? For allegedly doing the exact same thing
the Allies did, but on a smaller scale?
[quote]The creation of ethnically homogeneous nation states in
Central and Eastern Europe[51] was presented as the key reason
for the official decisions of the Potsdam and previous Allied
conferences as well as the resulting expulsions.[52] The
principle of every nation inhabiting its own nation state gave
rise to a series of expulsions and resettlements of Germans,
Poles, Ukrainians and others who after the war found themselves
outside their supposed home states.[63][53]
[...]
The participants at the Potsdam Conference asserted that
expulsions were the only way to prevent ethnic violence. As
Winston Churchill expounded in the House of Commons in 1944,
"Expulsion is the method which, insofar as we have been able to
see, will be the most satisfactory and lasting. There will be no
mixture of populations to cause endless trouble... A clean sweep
will be made. I am not alarmed by the prospect of
disentanglement of populations, not even of these large
transferences, which are more possible in modern conditions than
they have ever been before".[72][/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944–1950)
(That Churchill quote sounds more racist than anything I've
heard Hitler say).
To Poland's credit, after Beck died, it seemed the Polish
government-in-exile became less ethno-centric in its policies,
although the Polish government formed by the USSR was not. In
addition, the USSR ethnically cleansed over a million Poles from
the eastern parts of Poland that the USSR was allowed to keep.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_population_transfers_(1944%E2%80%931946)
So, who was the original advocate of ethnically cleansing the
Germans, you might ask? Ah yes, Churchill.
[quote]The idea to expel the Germans from the annexed
territories was proposed by Winston Churchill, in conjunction
with the Polish and Czechoslovak exile governments in London at
least since 1942.[2][3] In late 1944 the Czechoslovak exile
government pressed[citation needed] the Allies to espouse the
principle of German population transfers.
[...]
On the other hand, Polish prime minister Tomasz Arciszewski, in
an interview for The Sunday Times on 17 December 1944, supported
the annexation of Warmia-Masuria, Opole Regency, north-east
parts of Lower Silesia (up to the Oder line), and parts of
Pomerania (without Szczecin), but he opposed the idea of
expulsion. He wanted to naturalize the Germans as Polish
citizens and to assimilate them.[4]
Stalin, in concert with other communist leaders, planned to
expel all ethnic Germans from east of the Oder and from lands
which from May 1945 fell inside the Soviet occupation zones.[5]
In 1941 his government had already transported Germans from
Crimea to Central Asia.
Between 1944 and 1948, millions of people, including ethnic
Germans (Volksdeutsche) and German citizens (Reichsdeutsche),
were permanently or temporarily moved from Central and Eastern
Europe. By 1950, a total of approximately 12 million[6] Germans
had fled or been expelled from east-central Europe into
Allied-occupied Germany and Austria. The West German government
put the total at 14.6 million,[7] including a million ethnic
Germans who had settled in territories conquered by Nazi Germany
during World War II, ethnic German migrants to Germany after
1950, and the children born to expelled parents. The largest
numbers came from former eastern territories of Germany ceded to
the People's Republic of Poland and the Soviet Union (about
seven million),[8][9] and from Czechoslovakia (about three
million).
[...]
The death toll attributable to the flight and expulsions is
disputed, with estimates ranging from 500,000–600,000[14][15]
and up to 2 to 2.5 million.[16][17][18] [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950)
More cattle cars. This time for Germans:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vertreibung.jpg
And Hungarians being ethnically cleansed from post-war
Czechoslovakia. Again, one of the standard anti-Nazi propaganda
points is that they were uniquely evil for transporting people
to camps in a "mechanized" and "efficient" manner. Who would
have guessed that any nation with access to rail networks would
have used rail networks to transport people?
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Old_people.jpg
...What...? The "good guys" literally implemented a "final
solution"? (Successfully!) And its not in the standard history
curriculum?
[quote]During the German occupation of Czechoslovakia, the Czech
resistance groups demanded the deportation of ethnic Germans
from Czechoslovakia. The decision to deport the Germans was
adopted by the Czechoslovak Government-in-Exile which, beginning
in 1943, sought the support of the Allies for this
proposal.[1][2] The final agreement for the expulsion of the
German population however was not reached until 2 August 1945 at
the end of the Potsdam Conference.
In the months following the end of the war, "wild" expulsions
happened from May until August 1945. Czechoslovak President
Edvard Beneš on 28 October 1945 called for the "final solution
of the German question" (Czech: konečné řešení
německé otázky) which would have to be solved by
deportation of the ethnic Germans from Czechoslovakia.[3][4]
The expulsions were carried out by order of local authorities,
mostly by groups of armed volunteers. However, in some cases it
was initiated or pursued with the assistance of the regular
army.[5] Several thousand died violently during the expulsion
and more died from hunger and illness as a consequence.[/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_from_Czechoslovakia
...What, the "good guys" literally put German children in the
exact same concentration camps the Germans had been operating
under war time conditions?
[quote]According to the German "Society against Expulsion", some
Germans were sent to "concentration camps".[46] A 1964 report by
the German Red Cross stated that 1,215 "internment camps" were
established, as well as 846 forced labour and "disciplinary
centres", and 215 prisons, on Czechoslovak territory.
[...]
According to Alfred de Zayas:
One of the worst camps in post-war Czechoslovakia was the
old Nazi concentration camp of Theresienstadt. Conditions under
the new Czech administration are described by H. G. Adler, a
former Jewish inmate as follows: ... in the majority they were
children and juveniles, who had only been locked up because they
were Germans. Only because they were Germans...? This sentence
sounds frighteningly familiar; only the word 'Jews' had been
changed to 'Germans'. [...] The people were abominably fed and
maltreated, and they were no better off than one was used to
from German concentration camps.[49]
The civilian internees who survived to be expelled recorded
the horrors of months and years of slow starvation and
maltreatment in many thousands of affidavits. Allied authorities
in the American and British zones were able to investigate
several cases, including the notorious concentration camp at
České Budějovice in Southern Bohemia. The deputy
commander of this camp in the years 1945–6, Václav Hrneček,
later fled Czechoslovakia and came to Bavaria where he was
recognized by former German inmates of the camp. Hrneček
was brought to trial before an American Court of the Allied High
Commission for Germany presided by Judge Leo M. Goodman. The
Court based an eight-year sentence against Hrneček upon
findings that the Budějovice camp was run in a criminal and
cruel way, that although there were no gas chambers and no
systematic, organized extermination, the camp was a centre of
sadism, where human life and human dignity had no
meaning.[50][/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_from_Czechoslovakia
[quote]The Beneš decrees are associated with the 1945-47
deportation of about 3 million ethnic Germans and Hungarians
from Czechoslovakia. The deportation, based on Article 12 of the
Potsdam Agreement, was the outcome of negotiations between the
Allied Control Council and the Czechoslovak government. The
expulsion is considered ethnic cleansing (a term in widespread
use since the early 1990s) by a number of historians and legal
scholars. The relevant decrees omit any reference to the
deportation.[/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene%C5%A1_decrees#Legal_basis_for_expulsions
Recall that Czechoslovakia was created after WWI by the Allies,
even though the Sudetenland wanted to remain with Austria and
Austria itself wanted to join Germany. Instead, the Allies
forbid both the Sudetenland from having "self-determination" and
forbid Austria from merging with Germany. This whole situation
could have been avoided, but the Allies didn't care.
[quote]Austria-Hungary broke apart at the end of World War I.
Late in October 1918, an independent Czechoslovak state,
consisting of the lands of the Bohemian kingdom and areas
belonging to the Kingdom of Hungary, was proclaimed. The German
deputies of Bohemia, Moravia, and Silesia in the Imperial
Council (Reichsrat) referred to the Fourteen Points of U.S.
President Woodrow Wilson and the right proposed therein to
self-determination, and attempted to negotiate the union of the
German-speaking territories with the new Republic of German
Austria, which itself aimed at joining Weimar Germany. [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland#World_War_I_and_its_aftermath
[quote]On 13 November 1918, German-Austria asked Germany to
start negotiations of union and on 15 November sent a telegram
to President Wilson to support union of Germany and Austria.
This was grounded in the view that Austria had never been a
nation in the true sense. While the Austrian state had existed
in one form or another for over 700 years (dating to the Holy
Roman Empire), its only unifying force had been the Habsburgs.
Apart from being German-inhabited, these Lands had no common
"Austrian" identity. They were Habsburg-ruled lands that had not
joined the Prussian-dominated German Empire after the Austrian
Empire lost the Austro-Prussian War.
On 12 March 1919, the Constituent Assembly re-confirmed an
earlier declaration that German-Austria was a constituent part
of the German republic. Pan-Germans and Social Democrats
supported the union with Germany, while Christian Socialists
were less supportive.
During spring and summer of 1919, unity talk meetings between
German and Austrian representatives continued. All this changed
after 2 June 1919 when the draft peace treaty with Austria was
presented, which demonstrated that the Western Allies were
opposed to any union between Germany and Austria.
[...]
Article 88 of the treaty, sometimes called a "pre-Anschluss
attempt", stated:
The independence of Austria is inalienable otherwise than
with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations.
Consequently Austria undertakes in the absence of the consent of
the said Council to abstain from any act which might directly or
indirectly or by any means whatsoever compromise her
independence, particularly, and until her admission to
membership of the League of Nations, by participation in the
affairs of another Power.
This clause effectively foreclosed any attempt by Austria to
unite with Germany.[5]
Likewise, the Treaty of Versailles, dictating the terms of peace
for Germany, forbade any union between Austria and Germany. With
these changes and the settling of Austria's frontiers, the era
of the First Republic of Austria began.[6] [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_German-Austria#Failed_union_with_Germany
By the way, the Allies allowed the Soviets to annex part of
Czechoslovakia. So much for all this hubbub about caring for
its borders..
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpathian_Ruthenia#Transcarpathian_Ukraine_-_Soviet_Union_(1945-1991)
The "good guys" using armbands to label ethnic-undesirables and
forcing them on death marches?
[quote]Shortly after, the Germans were marked with white
armbands and became subject to similar restrictions previously
directed against the Jews by the Nazis.[4][/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brno_death_march
...The "good guys" lynching people and burning their bodies in
concentration camp incinerators?
[quote]The Ústí massacre was a lynching of ethnic Germans in
Ústí nad Labem (Aussig an der Elbe), a largely ethnic German
city in northern Bohemia ("Sudetenland"), shortly after the end
of World War II, on 31 July 1945. During the incident, at least
43 Germans were killed (confirmed body count) but the estimated
numbers range from 80 to thousands of victims.
Intelligence officer and police commandant Bedřich Pokorný,
who previously took part in the organisation of so called Brno
death march in May 1945, has been sometimes accused of
organizing this massacre towards the end of the Potsdam
conference (17 July to 2 August 1945) after the government had
halted such acts.
[...]
The estimated number of victims is 80–120, with 43 being
accounted for specifically: 24 bodies gathered in the city were
burned in the crematorium of the former concentration camp in
Terezín on 1 August[/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Ast%C3%AD_massacre
#Post#: 6643--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: Zea_mays Date: May 23, 2021, 6:54 pm
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How many times have you heard of "Nazi slave labor"?
[quote]In the years following World War II, large numbers of
German civilians and captured soldiers were forced into labor by
the Allied forces. The topic of using Germans as forced labor
for reparations was first broached at the Tehran conference in
1943, where Soviet premier Joseph Stalin demanded 4,000,000
German workers.[1]
Forced labor was also included in the final protocol of the
Yalta conference[2] in January 1945, where it was assented to by
UK Prime Minister Winston Churchill and US President Franklin D.
Roosevelt.
[...]
The largest group of forced laborers in the Soviet Union
consisted of several million German prisoners of war. Most
German POW survivors of the forced labor camps in the Soviet
Union were released in 1953.[3][4][/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labor_of_Germans_after_World_War_II
[quote]In its shifted borders, post-war Poland comprised large
territories that had a German-speaking majority and had been
part of German states for centuries. Many ethnic Germans living
in these areas were, prior to their expulsion from their home
region, used for years as forced laborers in labor camps[8] such
as that run by Salomon Morel.
Among these camps were Central Labor Camp Jaworzno, Central
Labor Camp Potulice, Łambinowice, Zgoda labor camp and
others.[9][10] The law authorizing forced labor, Article 20 of
the law on the exclusion of the enemy elements from society,
also removed rights to Polish citizenship and all property
owned.[11]
The many camps were used during the process of the expulsions
for the sake of "rehabilitating" Reichs- or Volksdeutsche, to
decide if they could stay or go, but in reality this was a
program of slave labor.[12] Roughly 200,000 ethnic Germans died
in the Soviet run concentration camps in Poland.[12] [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labor_of_Germans_after_World_War_II
Why don't we hear about people like this in history textbooks:
[quote]Salomon Morel (November 15, 1919 – February 14, 2007) was
an officer in the Ministry of Public Security in the Polish
People's Republic. Morel was as a commander of concentration
camps run by the NKVD and Polish communist authorities until
1956.
[...]
Beginning in the early 1990s Morel was investigated by
authorities for war crimes and crimes against humanity,
including the murder[4] of more than 1,500 prisoners from Upper
Silesia, most of from the local population.[5][1][6][7] In 1996,
he was indicted by Poland on charges of torture, war crimes,
crimes against humanity and communist crimes.[3] After his case
was publicized by the Polish, German, British, and American
media, Morel fled to Israel and was granted citizenship under
the Law of Return. Poland twice requested his extradition, once
in 1998 and once in 2004, but Israel refused to comply and
rejected the more serious charges as being false and again
rejected extradition on the grounds that the statute of
limitations against Morel had run out and that Morel was in poor
health.[8] Polish authorities responded by accusing Israel of
applying a double standard, and the controversy over Morel's
extradition continued until his death.[5]
[...]
Morel claimed that he was at one point an inmate in Auschwitz
and over thirty of his relatives were killed in the
Holocaust.[12]
[...]
Solomon Morel's preferred method of torture was the ice water
tank where prisoners would be put in with freezing water up to
their necks until they died.
[...]
The survivor Dorota Boriczek described Morel as "a barbaric and
cruel man" who often personally tortured and killed
prisoners.[7] Gerhard Gruschka, a local Upper Silesian of Polish
descent, was imprisoned in Zgoda when he was 14 years old and
wrote a book about his experiences, detailing the endemic
torture and abuse in the camp.[2] Morel was also accused of an
extensive pattern of sadistic torture in John Sack's book An Eye
for an Eye: The Untold Story of Jewish Revenge Against Germans
in 1945, which contributed to publicizing his case in the
Anglophone world in the 1990s.[4][/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomon_Morel
Going back to the slave labor of German prisoners that most
Allied nations continued to use even after the war ended:
[quote]Many Germans in what would become East Germany were
forced by the Communist authorities to work in German uranium
mines producing the majority of the raw material of the Soviet
atomic bomb project.[16] Beginning in the summer of 1946 the
Soviets began explorations in the Erzgebirge, and sealing off
the old radium hot springs by September of the same year. An
initial workforce of four to five thousand was established, with
another 20,000 called for by the end of the year. When an extra
60,000 workers were called for in the summer of 1947, a wave of
potential workers flooded into West Germany to avoid the mines,
including many citizens who would otherwise prefer to live in
the communist East. Workers who began as volunteers were turned
into forced laborers. Workers who attempted to escape, whether
conscripts or volunteers, were hunted down and returned to the
mines.
[...]
Contrary to Section IV of the Hague Convention of 1907, "The
Laws and Customs of War on Land", the SHAEF "counter insurgency
manual" included provisions for forced labor and hostage
taking.[18]
[...]
Some of the 740,000 German prisoners transferred in 1945 by the
U.S. for forced labor in France came from the Rheinwiesenlager
camps; these forced laborers were already very weak, many
weighing barely 50 kg (110 lbs).[21]
In retaliation for acts of resistance, French occupation forces
expelled more than 25,000 civilians from their homes. Some of
these civilians were subsequently forced to clear minefields in
Alsace.[22] [/quote]
Holy shit, no wonder we never hear about forced prison labor by
the Allied nations! They were more reliant on it than the
Germans. Mind you the this is from the UK using it IN PEACETIME
CONDITIONS AFTER THE WAR, not during the war when every single
individual capable of labor would have a pressing need to be
conscripted into the war effort.
A quarter of British agricultural labor was done by slave labor
of German POWs in the late 1940s. Insane:
[quote]In 1946, the UK had more than 400,000 German prisoners of
war, many of whom had been transferred from POW camps in the
U.S. and Canada. Many of these were used as forced labourers, as
a form of war reparations.[23][24]
The two main reasons for their continued presence in Britain
were to denazify them (in particular German officers), and for
non-officers employment as agricultural and other labor.[25][26]
In 1946 a fifth of all agricultural work in the UK was performed
by German prisoners.[26] A public debate ensued in the UK, where
protests over the continued usage of German labourers raged in
the British media and in the House of Commons.[27] In 1947 the
Ministry of Agriculture argued against rapid repatriation of
working German prisoners, since by then they made up 25 percent
of the land workforce, and they wanted to keep employing them
into 1948.[27][/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labor_of_Germans_after_World_War_II#United_Kingdom
[quote]The United States transferred German prisoners for forced
labor to Europe (which received 740,000 from the US). For
prisoners in the U.S. repatriation was also delayed for harvest
reasons.[29]
Civilians aged 14–65 in the U.S. occupation zone of Germany were
also registered for compulsory labor, under threat of prison and
withdrawal of ration cards.[30]
[...]
According to the Office of Public Administration (part of
Federal Ministry of the Interior), compensation for Germans used
as forced labor after the war cannot be claimed in Germany since
September 29, 1978, due to the statute of limitations.[32]
[/quote]
After the war, the Allies made up a new classification for the
captured/demobilized German military. They labelled them as
"disarmed enemy forces" instead of prisoners of war, in order to
ignore the Geneva Convention and other treaties regarding
regulations on treating POWs. I suppose this made it easier to
justify their use as slave labor.
[quote]The Rheinwiesenlager (Rhine meadow camps) were a group of
19 camps built in the Allied-occupied part of Germany by the
U.S. Army to hold captured German soldiers at the close of the
Second World War. Officially named Prisoner of War Temporary
Enclosures (PWTE), they held between one and almost two million
surrendered Wehrmacht personnel from April until September 1945.
Prisoners held in the camps were designated disarmed enemy
forces, not prisoners of war. This decision was made in March
1945 by SHAEF commander in chief Dwight D. Eisenhower: by not
classifying the hundreds of thousands of captured troops as
POWs, the logistical problems associated with accommodating so
many prisoners of war mandated by the Geneva Convention
governing their treatment were negated.
Most estimates of German deaths in these camps range from 3,000
to 6,000. Many of these died from starvation, dehydration and
exposure to the weather elements because no structures were
built inside the prison compounds.
[...]
The camps were founded in April 1945 and remained in existence
until September. There was a similar plan for the construction
of all the camps. Open farmland close to a village with a
railroad line was enclosed with barbed wire and divided into 10
to 20 camps, each housing 5,000 to 10,000 men. Existing field
paths were used as streets of the camp and surrounding buildings
as the administration, kitchen and hospital.[2] The prisoners of
war, forced to surrender their equipment, had to dig holes in
the earth by hand in which to sleep. Soon the camps were grossly
overcrowded; e.g., Camp Remagen, intended for 100,000, grew to
184,000 prisoners.[3]
"Some of the enclosures resembled Andersonville Prison in
1864".[4]
[...]
On 12 June 1945, the British forces took control of the two
Rheinwiesenlager camps designated to be in the British Zone. On
10 July 1945, all releases were halted after SHAEF handed
control of the camps over to the French. The deal was struck
because the government of Charles de Gaulle wanted 1.75 million
prisoners of war for forced labor in France.
[...]
In 2003, historian Richard Dominic Wiggers argued that the
Allies violated international law regarding the feeding of enemy
civilians, and that they both directly and indirectly caused the
unnecessary suffering and death of large numbers of civilians
and prisoners in occupied Germany, guided partly by a spirit of
postwar vengeance when creating the circumstances that
contributed to their deaths.[18] [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinwiesenlager
They're packed in so tightly it looks like a concert with barely
any room to move.
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Remagen_enclosure.jpg
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/WomenCamp1945.gif
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/GermanUnknownCamp1945.gif
Then there's the US concentration camps which are actually
sometimes mentioned in history books:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans
The Canadian concentration camps remained until 1949!
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Canadians
In WWI, the sinking of the Lusitania was a major piece of
propaganda to gain sympathy for the Allied cause. The British
loaded tons of ammunition on a ship carrying civilians, with the
hopes that this would be a gotcha loophole allowing them to
transport whatever they wanted. The Germans called their bluff
and over 1000 people died in the sinking. Around 1500 people
died on the Titanic, making it the largest loss of life in a
single maritime disaster in history.
Meanwhile, this death toll was surpassed multiple times in WWII
and no one ever hears about it. The highest death toll was a
German ship evacuating refugees from the impending Soviet
invasion. Over 9000 people died, and it remains the most deadly
shipwreck in history.
[quote]The MV Wilhelm Gustloff was a German armed military
transport ship which was sunk on 30 January 1945 by Soviet
submarine S-13 in the Baltic Sea while evacuating German
civilian refugees from East Prussia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland
and Estonia[3] and military personnel from Gotenhafen (Gdynia)
as the Red Army advanced. According to one source, the ship was
carrying Lithuanian, Latvian and Polish refugee children.[4] By
one estimate,[5][6] 9,400 people died, which makes it the
largest loss of life in a single ship sinking in
history.[/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Wilhelm_Gustloff
Up to 7000 died in similar incident:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Goya
Lastly, here is one of the most disturbing and organized war
crimes to take place during WWII, committed by the Soviets:
[quote]The majority of the assaults were committed in the Soviet
occupation zone; estimates of the numbers of German women raped
by Soviet soldiers have ranged up to 2 million.[11][12][13][14]
According to historian William Hitchcock, in many cases women
were the victims of repeated rapes, some as many as 60 to 70
times.[15] At least 100,000 women are believed to have been
raped in Berlin, based on surging abortion rates in the
following months and contemporary hospital reports,[13] with an
estimated 10,000 women dying in the aftermath.[16] Female deaths
in connection with the rapes in Germany, overall, are estimated
at 240,000.[2][17] Antony Beevor describes it as the "greatest
phenomenon of mass rape in history" and concludes that at least
1.4 million women were raped in East Prussia, Pomerania and
Silesia alone.[18] According to the Soviet war correspondent
Natalya Gesse, Soviet soldiers raped German females from eight
to eighty years old. Soviet and Polish women were not spared
either.[19][20][21]
[...]
When the Yugoslav politician Milovan Djilas complained about
rapes in Yugoslavia, Stalin reportedly stated that he should
"understand it if a soldier who has crossed thousands of
kilometres through blood and fire and death has fun with a woman
or takes some trifle. ".[23] On another occasion, when told that
Red Army soldiers sexually maltreated German refugees, he
reportedly said: "We lecture our soldiers too much; let them
have their initiative."[24][/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany
[quote]'They raped every German female from eight to 80'
[...]
Antony Beevor, author of the acclaimed new book about the fall
of Berlin, on a massive war crime committed by the victorious
Red Army.
[...]
"Red Army soldiers don't believe in 'individual liaisons' with
German women," wrote the playwright Zakhar Agranenko in his
diary when serving as an officer of marine infantry in East
Prussia. "Nine, ten, twelve men at a time - they rape them on a
collective basis." [/quote]
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11
#Post#: 6652--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: guest5 Date: May 23, 2021, 11:38 pm
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NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE!!!
Will Westerners ever learn?
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