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#Post#: 30264--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
By: antihellenistic Date: May 26, 2025, 10:43 am
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Hermann Goering, Commander-in-Chief of the Hitler Regime's Air
Force, Explains that the National Socialist Movement was not
Officially adopting Racialist Worldview
[quote]"If one went along with National Socialism one didn't
have to agree with the twenty-five points of their platform.
Some of us were more interested in one point, others in another.
Some National Socialists were members for political, others for
social, still others for racial reasons."
Did he consider the race politics of the Nazis an intrinsic
matter, or merely incidental? "Not basic at all. Completely
irrelevant and incidental. It only became basic or important
because a faction of Nazis who were fanatic racial exponents
became politically powerful. Men like Rosenberg, Streicher,
Himmler, and Goebbels. National Socialism could also have taken
a much different course."
Would he have approved of another course? "Certainly. Many of us
in the party were opposed to the sharp racial laws and politics
but we were too busy. Political and economic strength are more
important than all this racial propaganda. Furthermore, I was
never so close to the party. I was more in the state section.
Personally I would never have allowed the party to have so much
influence on the state. There were two groups. One espoused the
theory that the party should rule the state. The second felt
that the state should govern the party. I was for the second
idea."[/quote]
- Hermann Goering on the Nuremberg Interviews, May 21, 1946
Sumber :
The Nuremberg Interviews by Leon Goldensohn Page 105 & 106
Goering did not even refer to Hitler as a racial fanatic in the
course of the interview
Recall :
[quote]The society which was created after the NSDAP achieved
power was in many ways a compromise. Hitler himself admitted (to
Leon Degrelle among others) that it would be the next generation
- the Hitler Youth generation - which would create a genuine
National-Socialist society. Organizations such as the SS and the
Hitler Youth were steps toward the creation of such a National
Socialist society, and it was these organizations which
implemented the ideal of personal honour, and respect for
others, of whatever race and culture. As Hitler and his true
followers, such as Rudolf Hess, matured in understanding, so too
did National-Socialism. National-Socialism was not born, fully
developed and fully-understood, in the early years of the NSDAP
- it developed slowly, over several decades. Thus, as Hitler
admitted, Mein Kampf was never intended to be some kind of bible
of National-Socialism: it was the product of its time and while
most of the underlying principles of National-Socialism were
laid down in that book, some principles were not. What was
written was subject to change, to revision, as
National-Socialism itself developed. - David Myatt, March
2011[/quote]
Source :
David Myatt: A National Socialist Ideologist by Rachael Stirling
page 14
HTML https://archive.org/details/dm-ns-ideologist/page/n13/mode/2up
[quote]68 years ago (1930s)
'The third point is that a person must be racially flawless. Let
him be Germanic, or Roman, or Chinese, or a Jew, or an Indian,
or a Negro, and so on. I respect all equally. We can work with
and count on all of them. Each has his established traits.
Depending on what one is looking for, this one or that one is to
be preferred for the job in question. It is no different with
people than with horses or dogs. Once one has established the
proper race for a particular task, one can rest assured that the
task will be resolved.'
...
“But if what you say is true, you should not have written Mein
Kampf beforehand,” I objected.
“Quite right. And I frequently regret that I did. But at the
time, when I was in Landsberg after November 9, 1923, I thought
everything was over. I was in captivity, I was deprived of my
freedom, the party was expropriated, dissolved—everything seemed
at an end, even worse than Germany after the Great War. I wrote
Mein Kampf as a kind of report to the German Volk, chiefly in
memory of the martyrs of November 9. I wrote it out of the
narrowness of my cell.
“When I was released, I had Mein Kampf printed. Perhaps, I
hoped, it would serve to rally my old friends. And that really
happened! That is how it came about.
“But gradually, I saw that many things were, after all,
different from the way I had seen them through prison bars and
from the way I had figured them out. And soon I set out to draft
changes, improvements. But they only turned out to be changes
for the worse. I thought about withdrawing the book. But it was
too late. It made its way through Germany, it was even spread
abroad, and what was right and positive about it did not miss
its mark. So I kept hands off. I made no more changes. The book
even gave me the financial basis for reconstructing the party.
If I were to write it today, a lot would be different. But
today, I would not write it at all[/quote]
Source :
Wagener - Hitler Memoirs of a Confidant page 143 and 273
[quote]"Racial war need not break out if people are selected not
according to their appearance but according to their
achievements. Looks and ability are often quite far apart. You
can make the selection according to the appearance, and you can
make it - as the party has done - according to the test of
life." - Adolf Hitler, 27th January 1942[/quote]
Reference :
1. Monologe im Führerhauptquartier 1941–1944 by Heinrich Heim
Page 201
2. Adolf Hitler, 27 January 1942, quoted from Zitelmann,
"Hitler's National Socialism," Page 456.
3. Exposing National Socialism's Contradictions to refute it -
TIKhistory, 10th December 2024 (Minute 12:35 until 12:55)
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYLvrwj-HFI
[quote]In May 1944, to officers in a remarkable speech at the
Platterhof, Hitler said: "We have this people of ours that is
not to be identified with a race, and this is now clear to
millions. ... But when I began (speaking) about twenty-five
years ago this was not so. I was told by
[counterrevolutionary-bürgerlich) circles: Yes, Volk and Race
are one and the same! No! Volk and race are not the same. Race
is a component of blood, a hematologic [blutmässig) kernel, but
the Volk is very often composed not of one race but of two,
three, four or five different racial kernels. ... Each of these
racial kernels possesses particular talents."* [/quote]
Source :
1. The Hitler of history by John Lukacs page 123
HTML https://archive.org/details/hitlerofhistory00luka/page/122/mode/2up?q=platterhof
2. Kuzniar-Clark - Black Nazis II Ethnic Minorities and
Foreigners in Hitler's Armed Forces page 226 and 229
3. Institut für Zeitgeschichte, MA 316, Ansprache des Fuhrers
vor Generalen und Offizieren am 26.5.1944 im Platterhof, 26-28,
50.
#Post#: 30265--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 26, 2025, 5:39 pm
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"Hermann Goering, Commander-in-Chief of the Hitler Regime's Air
Force, Explains that the National Socialist Movement was not
Officially adopting Racialist Worldview"
Goering was a traitor:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_G%C3%B6ring
[quote]Informed on 22 April 1945 that Hitler intended to commit
suicide, Göring sent a telegram to Hitler requesting his
permission to assume leadership of the Reich. Considering his
request an act of treason, Hitler removed Göring from all his
positions, expelled him from the party and ordered his
arrest.[/quote]
He is not qualified to say what National Socialism is or is not.
#Post#: 30266--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
By: antihellenistic Date: May 26, 2025, 9:04 pm
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[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=40.msg30265#msg30265
date=1748299175]
"Hermann Goering, Commander-in-Chief of the Hitler Regime's Air
Force, Explains that the National Socialist Movement was not
Officially adopting Racialist Worldview"
Goering was a traitor:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_G%C3%B6ring
[quote]Informed on 22 April 1945 that Hitler intended to commit
suicide, Göring sent a telegram to Hitler requesting his
permission to assume leadership of the Reich. Considering his
request an act of treason, Hitler removed Göring from all his
positions, expelled him from the party and ordered his
arrest.[/quote]
He is not qualified to say what National Socialism is or is not.
[/quote]
What I want to convey is that I want to show from the historical
record data that, even, traitors from within the party explained
that the National Socialist view did not emphasize racism.
#Post#: 30267--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 26, 2025, 10:12 pm
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"racism"
Racism is ethnotribalism, which indeed National Socialism
opposes. But what you posted has nothing to do with
ethnotribalism. You yourself in your previous post did not use
the term "racism", but instead "racialism":
[quote]Hermann Goering, Commander-in-Chief of the Hitler
Regime's Air Force, Explains that the National Socialist
Movement was not Officially adopting Racialist Worldview[/quote]
which could refer to racial idealism, which National Socialism
absolutely emphasizes, although I agree that Goering does not
(and hence have never taken him seriously).
Goering's intellectual dishonesty/incompetence (not sure which)
is further demonstrated here:
[quote]a faction of Nazis who were fanatic racial exponents
became politically powerful. Men like Rosenberg, Streicher,
Himmler, and Goebbels.[/quote]
Do I really need to explain that these four individuals did not
belong in the same faction? Thus for Goering to claim that they
do only discredits Goering himself as a reliable source on
National Socialism.
More about Goering:
[quote]He instituted reforms to the forestry laws and acted to
protect endangered species. Around this time, he became
interested in Schorfheide Forest, where he set aside 100,000
acres (400 km2) as a state park, which is still extant. There he
built an elaborate hunting lodge[/quote]
[quote]Italian Foreign Minister Galeazzo Ciano once noted Göring
wearing a fur coat[/quote]
::)
Besides, if you believe that traitors are reliable sources, then
you would also have to consider the possibility that Himmler
(another traitor) is also qualified to define National
Socialism. But Himmler was racist (ie. ethnotribalist). So using
traitors as sources does not at all strengthen our case that
National Socialism is anti-racist.
(I understand that you yourself, in addition to being
anti-racist (which I am glad to see), have never been
enthusiastic about racial idealism (which worries me).)
#Post#: 30528--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: antihellenistic Date: June 30, 2025, 7:12 am
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[quote]Nazis did not conceal their racism. Though extreme, it
built on top of mundane sentiments of tha time. The Weimar
Constitution itself defined the German nation as a union of
"tribes," and "German blood" defined citizenship (Brubaker
1992). Racial theory was influential contemporary biomedical
science in many countries, and common-sensical racial
assumptions were everywhere made. Germans and other nations were
de- fined by blood, hereditarily, and to this was yoked a sense
of national superiority common among Great Powers. Germans were
regarded as racially superior to nations around them, especially
to the supposedly less civilized nations to the east and to
"Semites." Anti-Slav jokes, songs, and graffiti were common
through east of the country, even un the SPD.[/quote]
Source :
1. Fascists by Mann, Michael Page 183 and 184
HTML https://archive.org/details/fascists0000mann/page/182/mode/2up?q=A+strong+state+will+see+that+production+is+carried+on+in+the+national+interests
#Post#: 31212--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: Not Racist Date: October 17, 2025, 8:16 am
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Every Major Nazi Myth Explained By a German by Brofessor Stein
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3ZFY_pfpu0
#Post#: 31252--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: New Mythos Date: October 24, 2025, 10:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Sci-Fi, Satire, and the Post-WWII Mythos
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H52OedcjRFA
[quote]These regimes are imagined as bleak, universally
oppressive murder machines, and for some people they were. But
they also had wide public support. The [s]Nazis[/s] National
Socialists actually did deliver on many of their promises with
jobs and economic growth, even if a lot of it was built on shady
financial shenanigans, MEFO bills and whatnot.[/quote]
[quote]...while there are a lot of factors involved with Italy's
sharp reduction in the number of its citizens immigrating after
the fascists came to power, it's notable that some Italians that
had immigrated to America went back during Mussolini's
rule.[/quote]
[quote]I'm not saying that fascism was great, only that it
wasn't fucking Mordor. People raised their kids, walked their
dog, went out to dinner, hung out, and laughed with their
friends. These were overwhelmingly normal people, for the most
part, living what we would recognize as mostly normal lives. But
that was not the cultural archetype that was needed during and
even after the war. They had to be monsters, goblins, and
malicious sorcery updated to the modern age. And so it morphs
into the jack booted Mirmadons of popular fiction. Villains who
will blow up entire planets on a whim. The Galactic Empire being
the most famous iteration of the space Nazi trope, the one
that'sbeen the template for a half century now.[/quote]
[quote]The Man in the High Castle is notable here. After the
series wrapped, all the swastikas were not simply thrown out or
sent to the prop house, but carefully cut up and burned, almost
like magical runes that needed to be ritually destroyed, lest
the power of the twisty spider get out and corrupt the world. As
though just by existing they hurt people, exuding danger by the
sigil alone.[/quote]
#Post#: 31253--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: PotatoChip Date: October 25, 2025, 12:25 am
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Social fascism
[quote]Social fascism was a theory developed by the Communist
International (Comintern) in the late 1920s which saw social
democracy as a moderate variant of fascism, particularly on the
basis of their shared interest in class collaboration. The
theory was abandoned by the Comintern in 1933 after the victory
of the Nazis in Germany and subsequent suppression of
communists.
The Comintern argued that capitalism had entered a Third Period
in which proletarian revolution was imminent, but could be
prevented by social democrats and other "fascist" forces.
Overview
Poster of the Portuguese MRPP of a rally on 12 October 1975 at
Campo Pequeno, in Lisbon, commemorating a killed party member,
whose slogan reads: "Neither Fascism, nor Social fascism.
Popular Government" At the 6th World Congress of the Comintern
in 1928, the end of capitalist stability and the beginning of
the "Third Period" was proclaimed. The end of capitalism,
accompanied with a working class revolution, was expected and
social democracy was identified as the main enemy of the
Communists. The Comintern's theory had roots in Grigory
Zinoviev's argument that international social democracy is a
wing of fascism. That view was accepted by Joseph Stalin, who
described fascism and social democracy as "twin brothers",
arguing that fascism depends on the active support of social
democracy and that social democracy depends on the active
support of fascism. After it was declared at the Sixth Congress,
the theory of social fascism became accepted by many in the
world communist movement...". [/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism#Overview
[quote]According to the idea of the NSDAP [Nazi party], we are
the German left. Nothing is more hateful to us than the
right-wing national ownership block. - Joseph Goebbels, Der
Angriff (The Attack), (6 December 1931), quoted in Wolfgang
Venohr’s book: Documents of German existence: 500 years of
German national history 1445-1945, Athenäum Verlag, 1980, p.
291, In German: „Der Idee der NSDAP entsprechend sind wir die
deutsche Linke. Nichts ist uns verhaßter als der rechtsstehende
nationale Besitzbürgerblock [/quote]
[quote]We are socialists because we see the social question as a
matter of necessity and justice for the very existence of a
state for our people, not a question of cheap pity or insulting
sentimentality. The worker has a claim to a living standard that
corresponds to what he produces. We have no intention of begging
for that right… Since the political powers of the day are
neither willing nor able to create such a situation, socialism
must be fought for. It is a fighting slogan both inwardly and
outwardly. It is aimed domestically at the bourgeois parties and
Marxism at the same time, because both are sworn enemies of the
coming workers’ state. It is directed abroad at all powers that
threaten our national existence and thereby the possibility of
the coming socialist national state. - Joseph Goebbels, “Those
Damn Nazis: Why Are We Socialists?” written by Joseph Goebbels
and Mjölnir, Die verfluchten Hakenkreuzler. Etwas zum
Nachdenken, Nazi propaganda pamphlet (Munich: Verlag Frz. Eher,
1932)[/quote]
See also:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/
There's a "MAGA-Communism" thread around here as well somewhere,
but I couldn't find it. It exists and belongs in this thread...
#Post#: 31409--------------------------------------------------
Re: The "Black" and "White"
Identity Politics Scam
By: PotatoChip Date: November 19, 2025, 10:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
(There's probably a better place for this post).
[quote]764 is a decentralized, internationally operating online
sextortion network. It emerged in 2021 from the CVLT network.
Although 764 has been described as a "Satanic neo-Nazi cult" by
multiple sources,[3][4] investigations suggest that its members'
misanthropic worldview and sadistic tendencies are more
significant drivers, with group dynamics playing a key role in
further radicalization. Members of 764 frequently adopt the
corresponding symbolism but are primarily described as being
motivated by sadism.[5][6]
764 is classified as a terror network by the United States
Department of Justice (DOJ), and is considered a terrorist "tier
one" investigative matter by the Federal Bureau of Investigation
(FBI). The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) similarly
classifies 764 as an "ideological violent extremist
network"...[/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/764_(organization)
"Child abuse and animal cruelty". These people of no idea of
what Hitler would actually do to them. That's Neo-Nazis for
you...
Victims of extremist 764 network warn parents about predators
targeting kids online
[quote]Parents speak out about how their 13-year-old son was
allegedly coerced into taking his own life by the sinister
online network, which has spread around the world. [/quote]
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQFudD1ar14
Who created Neo-Nazis ultimately, was it the same westerners who
refused to listen to General George S. Patton that
denazification of postwar Germany was actually a terrible idea?
Now look at what you people have created FFS!
#Post#: 31412--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: 90sRetroFan Date: November 20, 2025, 5:17 pm
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For reference:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_welfare_in_Nazi_Germany
[quote]There was widespread support for animal welfare in Nazi
Germany[1] (German: Tierschutz im nationalsozialistischen
Deutschland) among the country's leadership. Adolf Hitler and
his top officials took a variety of measures to ensure animals
were protected.[2]
...
In his private diaries, Nazi Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels
described Hitler as a vegetarian who was contemptuous of Judaism
and Christianity for the ethical distinction they drew between
the value of humans and the value of animals;[6][5] Goebbels
also mentions that Hitler planned to discourage slaughterhouses
in the German Reich following the conclusion of World War II.[6]
...
The current animal welfare laws in Germany were initially
introduced by the Nazis.[10]
...
According to Boria Sax, the Nazis rejected anthropocentric
reasons for animal protection—animals were to be protected for
their own sake.[12]
...
the animal was to be "protected for itself" ("um seiner selbst
willen geschützt"), and made "an object of protection going far
beyond the hitherto existing law" ("Objekt eines weit über die
bisherigen Bestimmungen hinausgehenden Schutzes").[18]
...
between 1927 and 1937, these policies resulted in a decline in
consumption of 17 percent for meat, 21 percent for milk, and 46
percent for eggs.[22][/quote]
HAIL HITLER!
Which is not to deny that plenty of NSDAP members were in
reality behaviourally nearer to 764 and other neo-Nazi groups
(which is actually just normal Western civilization) than to
Hitlerism:
[quote]German experimenters placed rats in cells into which
cigarette smoke was introduced. The rats gasped, fell on each
other, and finally suffocated to death.[29] Other experiments
were conducted in which it was shown that the tar emitted in
cigarette smoke caused cancer in mice at a high rate.[30]
Researchers also exposed mice to asbestos to prove that it can
cause lung cancer.[31] In 1939, the SS doctor, Sigmund Rascher,
performed a series of experiments on animals with the direct
cooperation of Himmler.
...
At the University of Freiburg, an experiment was conducted on
cats with brain electrode implants.[33] In 1942 the German Nobel
laureate bacteriologist Gerhard Domagk conducted infection
experiments on animals when he examined the effect of sulfa on
gangrene necrosis in animals.[34] The German dermatologist Hans
Theodor Schreus also conducted similar infection experiments in
animals. In 1941, he infected exposed muscles of mice, then
crushed their muscles to encourage the development of
infection.[35]
From 1933, the Nazi doctor Carl Clauberg conducted experiments
on animals in research on reproduction. In his research he
demonstrated how the fertility of animals can be neutralized and
then restored.[36] The Nazi neurologist, Georg Schaltenbrand
studied multiple sclerosis between 1935-1942. As part of his
research, he injected into the spines of great apes fluid from
the spines of humans with sclerosis. The monkeys fell ill, but
Schaltenbrand was not sure it was multiple sclerosis. In an
attempt to find out, he injected the liquid from the monkeys
into the spines of 14 mentally and physically disabled
people.[37] The German authorities ordered the German chemist,
Gerhard Schrader to perform experiments on animals in the field
of nerve gas research, and in these experiments, all the animals
died. The German army ordered more extensive experiments in
nerve gas research on baboons and other types of monkeys. These
animals vomited, excreted feces uncontrollably, lost control of
their body movements, and convulsed until they died.
...
On June 12, 1944, the head of the Military Academy of Medicine
in Berlin, the virologist, Eugen Haagen sent a letter to
Brigadier General Walter Schreiber in which he complained that
his laboratory mice were running out and asked for a new supply:
"May I ask you to endeavor to secure for me several thousand
mice of both sexes, preferably only young animals."[41] At the
Luftwaffe's animal farm 200,000 rabbits were grown for
experimental purposes.[42]
...
Hunting was a common hobby among the leaders of the Nazi regime,
Gauleiters, members of the Nazi extermination squads, and
extermination camp staff.[43] A non-exhaustive list of hunters
among notable Nazis includes:
Among Hitler's cabinet ministers: Hermann Göring,[44] Heinrich
Himmler,[45][46][47] Joachim von Ribbentrop,[45] Wilhelm
Keitel,[48] Hans Frank[49][50]
Among Gauleiters and other senior Nazi politicians: Arthur
Greiser,[51] Erich Koch,[46][47] Karl Kaufmann,[43][47] Max
Amann[52]
Among SS and Waffen-SS generals: Reinhard Heydrich,[53][54]
Oswald Pohl,[55][47] Odilo Globocnik,[47] Gottlob
Berger,[56][47] Sepp Dietrich,[57] Werner Lorenz,[58] Karl
Wolff,[45][47] Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski,[47] Otto Rasch[59]
Among top army commanders: Erwin Rommel,[60] Heinz
Guderian,[61][62] Eduard Dietl,[63] Adolf Galland[64]
Among the Nazi staff in Auschwitz: Rudolf Höss,[65] Richard
Baer,[66][67] Eduard Wirths,[68] Horst Schumann,[69] Victor
Capesius.[70]
...
Hitler himself said in a conversation on September 7, 1942 that
hunting for German officers is like jewelry for women.[80] At a
meeting held by Martin Bormann, Hitler's secretary, with the
Nazi governors in early 1942, the Gauleiters were so eager to
tell their hunting stories that Bormann was unable to conduct a
discussion of the serious issues at hand.[43] On July 21, 1941,
the SS officer and member of the Einsatzkommando, Felix Landau,
noted in his diary: "The men got a day off, and some of them
went hunting."[81][/quote]
Other than Hitler himself, it was really only the original
Eckart disciples (Hess, Rosenberg, etc.) who understood that
National Socialism was supposed to be a form of applied
Gnosticism.
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