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#Post#: 30266--------------------------------------------------
Re: Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: May 26, 2025, 9:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 90sRetroFan link ---
>
> "Hermann Goering, Commander-in-Chief of the Hitler Regime's
Air Force, Explains that the National Socialist Movement was not
Officially adopting Racialist Worldview"
>
> Goering was a traitor:
>
>
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_G%C3%B6ring
>
> [quote]Informed on 22 April 1945 that Hitler intended to
commit suicide, Göring sent a telegram to Hitler requesting his
permission to assume leadership of the Reich. Considering his
request an act of treason, Hitler removed Göring from all his
positions, expelled him from the party and ordered his arrest.
--- End Quote ---
He is not qualified to say what National Socialism is or is not.
[/quote]
What I want to convey is that I want to show from the historical
record data that, even, traitors from within the party explained
that the National Socialist view did not emphasize racism.
#Post#: 30267--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: May 26, 2025, 10:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"racism"
Racism is ethnotribalism, which indeed National Socialism
opposes. But what you posted has nothing to do with
ethnotribalism. You yourself in your previous post did not use
the term "racism", but instead "racialism":
--- Quote ---
> Hermann Goering, Commander-in-Chief of the Hitler Regime's Air
Force, Explains that the National Socialist Movement was not
Officially adopting Racialist Worldview
--- End Quote ---
which could refer to racial idealism, which National Socialism
absolutely emphasizes, although I agree that Goering does not
(and hence have never taken him seriously).
Goering's intellectual dishonesty/incompetence (not sure which)
is further demonstrated here:
--- Quote ---
> a faction of Nazis who were fanatic racial exponents became
politically powerful. Men like Rosenberg, Streicher, Himmler,
and Goebbels.
--- End Quote ---
Do I really need to explain that these four individuals did not
belong in the same faction? Thus for Goering to claim that they
do only discredits Goering himself as a reliable source on
National Socialism.
More about Goering:
--- Quote ---
> He instituted reforms to the forestry laws and acted to
protect endangered species. Around this time, he became
interested in Schorfheide Forest, where he set aside 100,000
acres (400 km2) as a state park, which is still extant. There he
built an elaborate hunting lodge
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> Italian Foreign Minister Galeazzo Ciano once noted Göring
wearing a fur coat
--- End Quote ---
::)
Besides, if you believe that traitors are reliable sources, then
you would also have to consider the possibility that Himmler
(another traitor) is also qualified to define National
Socialism. But Himmler was racist (ie. ethnotribalist). So using
traitors as sources does not at all strengthen our case that
National Socialism is anti-racist.
(I understand that you yourself, in addition to being
anti-racist (which I am glad to see), have never been
enthusiastic about racial idealism (which worries me).)
#Post#: 30528--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: June 30, 2025, 7:12 am
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--- Quote ---
> Nazis did not conceal their racism. Though extreme, it built
on top of mundane sentiments of tha time. The Weimar
Constitution itself defined the German nation as a union of
"tribes," and "German blood" defined citizenship (Brubaker
1992). Racial theory was influential contemporary biomedical
science in many countries, and common-sensical racial
assumptions were everywhere made. Germans and other nations were
de- fined by blood, hereditarily, and to this was yoked a sense
of national superiority common among Great Powers. Germans were
regarded as racially superior to nations around them, especially
to the supposedly less civilized nations to the east and to
"Semites." Anti-Slav jokes, songs, and graffiti were common
through east of the country, even un the SPD.
--- End Quote ---
Source :
1. Fascists by Mann, Michael Page 183 and 184
HTML https://archive.org/details/fascists0000mann/page/182/mode/2up?q=A+strong+state+will+see+that+production+is+carried+on+in+the+national+interests
#Post#: 31212--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
DIR By: Not Racist
Date: October 17, 2025, 8:16 am
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Every Major Nazi Myth Explained By a German by Brofessor Stein
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3ZFY_pfpu0
#Post#: 31252--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
DIR By: New Mythos
Date: October 24, 2025, 10:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Sci-Fi, Satire, and the Post-WWII Mythos
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H52OedcjRFA
--- Quote ---
> These regimes are imagined as bleak, universally oppressive
murder machines, and for some people they were. But they also
had wide public support. The Nazis National Socialists actually
did deliver on many of their promises with jobs and economic
growth, even if a lot of it was built on shady financial
shenanigans, MEFO bills and whatnot.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> ...while there are a lot of factors involved with Italy's
sharp reduction in the number of its citizens immigrating after
the fascists came to power, it's notable that some Italians that
had immigrated to America went back during Mussolini's rule.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> I'm not saying that fascism was great, only that it wasn't
fucking Mordor. People raised their kids, walked their dog, went
out to dinner, hung out, and laughed with their friends. These
were overwhelmingly normal people, for the most part, living
what we would recognize as mostly normal lives. But that was not
the cultural archetype that was needed during and even after the
war. They had to be monsters, goblins, and malicious sorcery
updated to the modern age. And so it morphs into the jack booted
Mirmadons of popular fiction. Villains who will blow up entire
planets on a whim. The Galactic Empire being the most famous
iteration of the space Nazi trope, the one that'sbeen the
template for a half century now.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> The Man in the High Castle is notable here. After the series
wrapped, all the swastikas were not simply thrown out or sent to
the prop house, but carefully cut up and burned, almost like
magical runes that needed to be ritually destroyed, lest the
power of the twisty spider get out and corrupt the world. As
though just by existing they hurt people, exuding danger by the
sigil alone.
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 31253--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
DIR By: PotatoChip
Date: October 25, 2025, 12:25 am
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Social fascism
--- Quote ---
> Social fascism was a theory developed by the Communist
International (Comintern) in the late 1920s which saw social
democracy as a moderate variant of fascism, particularly on the
basis of their shared interest in class collaboration. The
theory was abandoned by the Comintern in 1933 after the victory
of the Nazis in Germany and subsequent suppression of
communists.
>
> The Comintern argued that capitalism had entered a Third
Period in which proletarian revolution was imminent, but could
be prevented by social democrats and other "fascist" forces.
>
> Overview
>
> Poster of the Portuguese MRPP of a rally on 12 October 1975 at
Campo Pequeno, in Lisbon, commemorating a killed party member,
whose slogan reads: "Neither Fascism, nor Social fascism.
Popular Government" At the 6th World Congress of the Comintern
in 1928, the end of capitalist stability and the beginning of
the "Third Period" was proclaimed. The end of capitalism,
accompanied with a working class revolution, was expected and
social democracy was identified as the main enemy of the
Communists. The Comintern's theory had roots in Grigory
Zinoviev's argument that international social democracy is a
wing of fascism. That view was accepted by Joseph Stalin, who
described fascism and social democracy as "twin brothers",
arguing that fascism depends on the active support of social
democracy and that social democracy depends on the active
support of fascism. After it was declared at the Sixth Congress,
the theory of social fascism became accepted by many in the
world communist movement...".
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_fascism#Overview
--- Quote ---
> According to the idea of the NSDAP [Nazi party], we are the
German left. Nothing is more hateful to us than the right-wing
national ownership block. - Joseph Goebbels, Der Angriff (The
Attack), (6 December 1931), quoted in Wolfgang Venohr’s book:
Documents of German existence: 500 years of German national
history 1445-1945, Athenäum Verlag, 1980, p. 291, In German:
„Der Idee der NSDAP entsprechend sind wir die deutsche Linke.
Nichts ist uns verhaßter als der rechtsstehende nationale
Besitzbürgerblock
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote ---
> We are socialists because we see the social question as a
matter of necessity and justice for the very existence of a
state for our people, not a question of cheap pity or insulting
sentimentality. The worker has a claim to a living standard that
corresponds to what he produces. We have no intention of begging
for that right… Since the political powers of the day are
neither willing nor able to create such a situation, socialism
must be fought for. It is a fighting slogan both inwardly and
outwardly. It is aimed domestically at the bourgeois parties and
Marxism at the same time, because both are sworn enemies of the
coming workers’ state. It is directed abroad at all powers that
threaten our national existence and thereby the possibility of
the coming socialist national state. - Joseph Goebbels, “Those
Damn Nazis: Why Are We Socialists?” written by Joseph Goebbels
and Mjölnir, Die verfluchten Hakenkreuzler. Etwas zum
Nachdenken, Nazi propaganda pamphlet (Munich: Verlag Frz. Eher,
1932)
--- End Quote ---
See also:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/
There's a "MAGA-Communism" thread around here as well somewhere,
but I couldn't find it. It exists and belongs in this thread...
#Post#: 31409--------------------------------------------------
Re: The "Black" and "White"
Identity Politics Scam
DIR By: PotatoChip
Date: November 19, 2025, 10:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
(There's probably a better place for this post).
--- Quote ---
> 764 is a decentralized, internationally operating online
sextortion network. It emerged in 2021 from the CVLT network.
>
> Although 764 has been described as a "Satanic neo-Nazi cult"
by multiple sources,[3][4] investigations suggest that its
members' misanthropic worldview and sadistic tendencies are more
significant drivers, with group dynamics playing a key role in
further radicalization. Members of 764 frequently adopt the
corresponding symbolism but are primarily described as being
motivated by sadism.[5][6]
>
> 764 is classified as a terror network by the United States
Department of Justice (DOJ), and is considered a terrorist "tier
one" investigative matter by the Federal Bureau of Investigation
(FBI). The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) similarly
classifies 764 as an "ideological violent extremist network"...
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/764_(organization)
"Child abuse and animal cruelty". These people of no idea of
what Hitler would actually do to them. That's Neo-Nazis for
you...
Victims of extremist 764 network warn parents about predators
targeting kids online
--- Quote ---
> Parents speak out about how their 13-year-old son was
allegedly coerced into taking his own life by the sinister
online network, which has spread around the world.
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQFudD1ar14
Who created Neo-Nazis ultimately, was it the same westerners who
refused to listen to General George S. Patton that
denazification of postwar Germany was actually a terrible idea?
Now look at what you people have created FFS!
#Post#: 31412--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: November 20, 2025, 5:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
For reference:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_welfare_in_Nazi_Germany
--- Quote ---
> There was widespread support for animal welfare in Nazi
Germany[1] (German: Tierschutz im nationalsozialistischen
Deutschland) among the country's leadership. Adolf Hitler and
his top officials took a variety of measures to ensure animals
were protected.[2]
> ...
> In his private diaries, Nazi Propaganda Minister Joseph
Goebbels described Hitler as a vegetarian who was contemptuous
of Judaism and Christianity for the ethical distinction they
drew between the value of humans and the value of animals;[6][5]
Goebbels also mentions that Hitler planned to discourage
slaughterhouses in the German Reich following the conclusion of
World War II.[6]
> ...
> The current animal welfare laws in Germany were initially
introduced by the Nazis.[10]
> ...
> According to Boria Sax, the Nazis rejected anthropocentric
reasons for animal protection—animals were to be protected for
their own sake.[12]
> ...
> the animal was to be "protected for itself" ("um seiner selbst
willen geschützt"), and made "an object of protection going far
beyond the hitherto existing law" ("Objekt eines weit über die
bisherigen Bestimmungen hinausgehenden Schutzes").[18]
> ...
> between 1927 and 1937, these policies resulted in a decline in
consumption of 17 percent for meat, 21 percent for milk, and 46
percent for eggs.[22]
--- End Quote ---
HAIL HITLER!
Which is not to deny that plenty of NSDAP members were in
reality behaviourally nearer to 764 and other neo-Nazi groups
(which is actually just normal Western civilization) than to
Hitlerism:
--- Quote ---
> German experimenters placed rats in cells into which cigarette
smoke was introduced. The rats gasped, fell on each other, and
finally suffocated to death.[29] Other experiments were
conducted in which it was shown that the tar emitted in
cigarette smoke caused cancer in mice at a high rate.[30]
Researchers also exposed mice to asbestos to prove that it can
cause lung cancer.[31] In 1939, the SS doctor, Sigmund Rascher,
performed a series of experiments on animals with the direct
cooperation of Himmler.
> ...
> At the University of Freiburg, an experiment was conducted on
cats with brain electrode implants.[33] In 1942 the German Nobel
laureate bacteriologist Gerhard Domagk conducted infection
experiments on animals when he examined the effect of sulfa on
gangrene necrosis in animals.[34] The German dermatologist Hans
Theodor Schreus also conducted similar infection experiments in
animals. In 1941, he infected exposed muscles of mice, then
crushed their muscles to encourage the development of
infection.[35]
>
> From 1933, the Nazi doctor Carl Clauberg conducted experiments
on animals in research on reproduction. In his research he
demonstrated how the fertility of animals can be neutralized and
then restored.[36] The Nazi neurologist, Georg Schaltenbrand
studied multiple sclerosis between 1935-1942. As part of his
research, he injected into the spines of great apes fluid from
the spines of humans with sclerosis. The monkeys fell ill, but
Schaltenbrand was not sure it was multiple sclerosis. In an
attempt to find out, he injected the liquid from the monkeys
into the spines of 14 mentally and physically disabled
people.[37] The German authorities ordered the German chemist,
Gerhard Schrader to perform experiments on animals in the field
of nerve gas research, and in these experiments, all the animals
died. The German army ordered more extensive experiments in
nerve gas research on baboons and other types of monkeys. These
animals vomited, excreted feces uncontrollably, lost control of
their body movements, and convulsed until they died.
> ...
> On June 12, 1944, the head of the Military Academy of Medicine
in Berlin, the virologist, Eugen Haagen sent a letter to
Brigadier General Walter Schreiber in which he complained that
his laboratory mice were running out and asked for a new supply:
"May I ask you to endeavor to secure for me several thousand
mice of both sexes, preferably only young animals."[41] At the
Luftwaffe's animal farm 200,000 rabbits were grown for
experimental purposes.[42]
> ...
> Hunting was a common hobby among the leaders of the Nazi
regime, Gauleiters, members of the Nazi extermination squads,
and extermination camp staff.[43] A non-exhaustive list of
hunters among notable Nazis includes:
>
> Among Hitler's cabinet ministers: Hermann Göring,[44] Heinrich
Himmler,[45][46][47] Joachim von Ribbentrop,[45] Wilhelm
Keitel,[48] Hans Frank[49][50]
> Among Gauleiters and other senior Nazi politicians: Arthur
Greiser,[51] Erich Koch,[46][47] Karl Kaufmann,[43][47] Max
Amann[52]
> Among SS and Waffen-SS generals: Reinhard Heydrich,[53][54]
Oswald Pohl,[55][47] Odilo Globocnik,[47] Gottlob
Berger,[56][47] Sepp Dietrich,[57] Werner Lorenz,[58] Karl
Wolff,[45][47] Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski,[47] Otto Rasch[59]
> Among top army commanders: Erwin Rommel,[60] Heinz
Guderian,[61][62] Eduard Dietl,[63] Adolf Galland[64]
> Among the Nazi staff in Auschwitz: Rudolf Höss,[65] Richard
Baer,[66][67] Eduard Wirths,[68] Horst Schumann,[69] Victor
Capesius.[70]
> ...
> Hitler himself said in a conversation on September 7, 1942
that hunting for German officers is like jewelry for women.[80]
At a meeting held by Martin Bormann, Hitler's secretary, with
the Nazi governors in early 1942, the Gauleiters were so eager
to tell their hunting stories that Bormann was unable to conduct
a discussion of the serious issues at hand.[43] On July 21,
1941, the SS officer and member of the Einsatzkommando, Felix
Landau, noted in his diary: "The men got a day off, and some of
them went hunting."[81]
--- End Quote ---
Other than Hitler himself, it was really only the original
Eckart disciples (Hess, Rosenberg, etc.) who understood that
National Socialism was supposed to be a form of applied
Gnosticism.
#Post#: 31495--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
DIR By: christianbethel
Date: November 29, 2025, 1:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
American historians readily accuse National Socialist Germany
for 'brainwashing' their citizens with propaganda, yet they
ignore the fact they had this:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Office_of_War_Information
--- Quote ---
> The United States Office of War Information (OWI) was a United
States government agency created during World War II. The OWI
operated from June 1942 until September 1945. Through radio
broadcasts, newspapers, posters, photographs, films and other
forms of media, the OWI was the connection between the
battlefront and civilian communities. The office also
established several overseas branches, which launched a
large-scale information and propaganda campaign abroad. From
1942 to 1945, the OWI reviewed film scripts, flagging material
which portrayed the United States in a negative light, including
anti-war sentiment.
--- End Quote ---
You will remember America entered ground combat against Germany
in 1942 with Operation Torch:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Torch
--- Quote ---
> Operation Torch (8–16 November 1942) was an Allied invasion of
French North Africa during World War II. Torch was a compromise
operation that met the British objective of securing victory in
North Africa while allowing American armed forces the
opportunity to begin their fight against Nazi Germany and
Fascist Italy on a limited scale.
--- End Quote ---
About the OWI:
--- Quote ---
>
> At the onset of World War II, the American public was in the
dark regarding wartime information. One American observer noted:
"It all seemed to boil down to three bitter complaints...first,
that there was too much information; second, that there wasn't
enough of it; and third, that in any event it was confusing and
inconsistent". Further, the American public confessed a lack of
understanding as to why the world was at war, and held great
resentment against other Allied Nations. President Roosevelt
established the OWI to both meet the demands for news and less
confusion, as well as resolve American apathy towards the war.
>
> The OWI's creation was not without controversy. The American
public, and the United States Congress in particular, were wary
of propaganda for several reasons. First, the press feared a
centralized agency as the sole distributor of wartime
information. Second, Congress feared an American propaganda
machine that could resemble Joseph Goebbels' operation in Nazi
Germany (facepalm). Third, previous attempts at propaganda under
the Committee on Public Information/Creel Committee during WWI
were viewed as a failure. And fourth, the American public
favored an isolationist or non-interventionist policy and were
therefore hesitant to support a pro-war propaganda campaign
targeting Americans.
>
> But in the wake of the attack on Pearl Harbor, the need for
coordinated and properly disseminated wartime information from
the military/administration to the public outweighed the fears
associated with American propaganda. President Roosevelt
entrusted the OWI to journalist and CBS newsman Elmer Davis,
with the mission to take "an active part in winning the war and
in laying the foundations for a better postwar world".
--- End Quote ---
About Davis:
--- Quote ---
> In 1928 he [Davis] published the novel Giant Killer, a
retelling of the Biblical story of David.
> ...
> As Director of the Office of War Information, Davis
recommended to Roosevelt that Japanese-Americans be permitted to
enlist for service in the Army and Navy and urged him to oppose
bills in Congress that would deprive Nisei of citizenship and
intern them during the war. He argued that Japanese propaganda
proclaiming it a racial war could be combated by deeds that
counteracted this. Davis has been termed one of the "unsung
forefathers" of the 442nd Regimental Combat Team, an all-Nisei
combat unit in the war.
> ...
> Davis was also instrumental in loosening censorship rules that
forbade the publication of images of dead GIs on the
battlefield. Until late 1943, the U.S. Office of Censorship
permitted the media to publish only images of blanket-covered
bodies and flag-draped coffins of dead U.S. soldiers, partly for
fear that Americans would be demoralized if they had any graphic
understanding of the human price being paid in the war. The
government also restricted what reporters could write, and
coverage was generally upbeat and bloodless.
>
--- End Quote ---
Wow, they even had a literal Office of Censorship (more on that
later):
--- Quote ---
> The Office of Censorship was an emergency wartime agency set
up by the United States federal government on December 19, 1941,
to aid in the censorship of all communications coming into and
going out of the United States, including its territories and
the Philippines. The efforts of the Office of Censorship to
balance the protection of sensitive war related information with
the constitutional freedoms of the press is considered largely
successful.
>
--- End Quote ---
Moving on:
--- Quote ---
> In conjunction with the War Relocation Authority, the OWI
produced a series of documentary films related to the internment
of Japanese Americans. Japanese Relocation and several other
films were designed by Milton S. Eisenhower to educate the
general public on the internment, to counter the tide of
anti-Japanese sentiment in the country, and to encourage
Japanese-American internees to resettle outside camp or to enter
military service. The OWI also worked with camp newspapers to
disseminate information to internees.
--- End Quote ---
What a slap in the internees' faces. They probably sanitized the
footage to make it look like the inmates were living well.
Davis has some words about his methods for propaganda:
--- Quote ---
> The OWI Bureau of Motion Pictures (BMP) headed by Lowell
Mellet worked with the Hollywood movie studios to produce films
that advanced American war aims. According to Elmer Davis, "The
easiest way to inject a propaganda idea into most people's minds
is to let it go through the medium of an entertainment picture
when they do not realize that they are being propagandized."
Successful films depicted the Allied armed forces as valiant
"Freedom fighters", and advocated for civilian participation,
such as conserving fuel or donating food to troops.
--- End Quote ---
The Americans even had their own Gleiwitz Incident:
--- Quote ---
> One of the most astounding of all OWI operations occurred in
Luxembourg. Known as Operation Annie, the United States 12th
Army Group ran a secret radio station from 2:00–6:30 am every
morning from a house in Luxembourg pretending to be loyal
Rhinelanders under Nazi occupation. They spoke of Nazi
commanders hiding their desperate position from the German
public, which caused dissent among Nazi supporters. Further,
they led Nazi forces into an Allied trap, and then staged an
Allied attack on the Annie Radio office to maintain their cover.
--- End Quote ---
Of course, the OWI was not without controversy:
--- Quote ---
> From 1942 to 1945, the OWI's Bureau of Motion Pictures
reviewed 1,652 film scripts and revised or discarded any that
portrayed the United States in a negative light, including
material that made Americans seem "oblivious to the war or
anti-war."
> ...
> Some of the writers, producers, and actors of OWI programs
admired the Soviet Union and were either loosely affiliated with
or were members of the Communist Party USA.
>
--- End Quote ---
All in all, it is reminiscent of the great lengthss taken by
Herr Minister Goebbels to disseminate propaganda, though this
propaganda (like all Western propaganda) is false.
#Post#: 31622--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
DIR By: christianbethel
Date: December 10, 2025, 8:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The title of this thread says 'Western Revisionism of WWI and
WWII', but I will be posting articles that cover events outside
of the conflict to illustrate the Western double standard when
it comes to historiography. That being said, is there a thread
where I can post about, say, the numerous colonial genocides?
Edit: Nevermind, I found it!
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