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       #Post#: 3625--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
       By: guest27 Date: January 25, 2021, 3:38 am
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       [quote]Hence you have to be able to either escape or fight back
       (ie. not loll on the floor). Thank you for proving my
       point.[/quote]
       Not sure what you mean by this. I didn't learn to crawl in order
       to fight or escape. I could've stayed on the floor if I wanted.
       [quote]Yes, but I will never be grateful for losing my
       innocence. That is what distinguishes me from those (a.k.a.
       adults) who value maturity. Both adults and I have lost our
       innocence, but they convince themselves that they have gained
       from the process overall, whereas I do not.[/quote]
       Innocence is the state of not being guilty or corrupt. If you've
       lost your innocence, how can you be said to keep your Original
       Nobility? Just because you half-heartedly value innocence? You
       don't reject maturity, you embrace it. You admonish childhood
       joys with your wise, learned disdain. How can I take you
       seriously and regard you as a fellow kid unless you intend to
       renounce maturity 100%?
       #Post#: 3659--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 25, 2021, 11:36 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "If you've lost your innocence, how can you be said to keep your
       Original Nobility?"
       Because I do not convince myself afterwards that losing my
       innocence was a positive event.
       "You don't reject maturity, you embrace it."
       Those who embrace maturity say that losing their innocence
       helped them grow up into who they are today and hence they are
       glad it happened. I do not say this and have never said this.
       #Post#: 3675--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
       By: guest27 Date: January 26, 2021, 5:28 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]Because I do not convince myself afterwards that losing
       my innocence was a positive event.[/quote]
       Were this genuine you wouldn't accept losing your innocence. If
       indulging in lamenting maturity is all "Original Nobility"
       amounts to, it's far-fallen from any nobility I can recall
       having.
       [quote]Those who embrace maturity say that losing their
       innocence helped them grow up into who they are today and hence
       they are glad it happened. I do not say this and have never said
       this.[/quote]
       Your core attitude to maturity is maturity. Millions of adults
       wake up and begrudgingly resign themselves to the cruelty of
       life every day. They might think they're woker than those who
       embrace the rat race and circle of life unquestioningly, but
       they have no real desire to rebel. What makes you any better?
       Original Nobility is throwing tantrums. Not shedding crocodile
       tears over the child you've sold for worldliness.
       #Post#: 3678--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
       By: Flutter9001 Date: January 26, 2021, 8:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Emily link=topic=399.msg3675#msg3675
       date=1611660522]
       Were this genuine you wouldn't accept losing your innocence. If
       indulging in lamenting maturity is all "Original Nobility"
       amounts to, it's far-fallen from any nobility I can recall
       having.
       [/quote]
       I don't think it is fair to say that this is all 90sRF does, at
       all. The majority of posts here are not on the topic of
       maturity, they are highlighting the violence in the world and
       suggesting ideas to prevent further violence and seek justice
       for the violence that has already occurred. I would say that
       moving on (practically, not necessarily forgetting or forgiving)
       and becoming more competent to make things happen is the
       opposite of "indulging in lamenting".
       #Post#: 3679--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
       By: guest27 Date: January 26, 2021, 8:33 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]I don't think it is fair to say that this is all 90sRF
       does, at all. The majority of posts here are not on the topic of
       maturity, they are highlighting the violence in the world and
       suggesting ideas to prevent further violence and seek justice
       for the violence that has already occurred. I would say that
       moving on (practically, not necessarily forgetting or forgiving)
       and becoming more competent to make things happen is the
       opposite of "indulging in lamenting".[/quote]
       Yes I do think it would be disingenuous for him to suggest all
       Original Nobility means to him is lamenting the loss of
       innocence (however 'actively' he does this); a tragedy without
       heroism. Yet he has professed to want to perpetuate violence,
       eternally, his idea of justice is merely revenge; outrage.
       There's no light at the end of the tunnel, no purification or
       resolution. At least none that I can fathom as the outcome of
       his incurable captivation with evil.
       #Post#: 3699--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 26, 2021, 11:33 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "you wouldn't accept losing your innocence."
       Back when I knew very little about this world, I innocently
       assumed it was as I expected it to be. As I learned more about
       this world, I discovered that it was nothing like what I
       expected it to be. This discovery is the loss of innocence. How
       do I "not accept" losing my innocence? By convincing myself that
       the discovery is fake?
       For example, before the age of 3, I innocently assumed that all
       meat came from animals who had died of old age. At age 3, I
       learned where meat actually came from. I lost my innocence about
       meat. How would I "not accept" this, according to you? Should I
       keep pretending that meat comes from animals who had died of old
       age (and therefore keep eating it)?
       "Original Nobility is throwing tantrums."
       "his idea of justice is merely revenge; outrage."
       Yes?
       #Post#: 3704--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
       By: guest5 Date: January 27, 2021, 12:30 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]Yes, animals do practice revenge. Chimps do it, for
       example. Macaques do it, too, although not directly: if they
       cannot attack the offender because he is much stronger, they
       would hurt someone weaker instead, sometimes the attacker’s
       relative.
       Also, there are many documented cases of wounded animals chasing
       or ambushing their hunters in situations when it would be
       obviously more reasonable for those animals to run away or hide.
       Why they do it is unclear. In humans, revenge is usually an
       irrational manifestation of our innate desire for justice, which
       is also observed in many other primates and has evolved to
       enable social cooperation. We always want to reward altruistic
       behavior in others and punish them for excessive selfishness.
       Some of animals known for revenge attacks on hunters are also
       highly social (elephants, for example), but others are not
       (bears, tigers etc.), so I don’t have a good explanation for
       their behavior.[/quote]
  HTML https://gizmodo.com/do-animals-practice-revenge-1843750410
       #Post#: 3714--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
       By: guest27 Date: January 27, 2021, 5:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]As I learned more about this world, I discovered that it
       was nothing like what I expected it to be. This discovery is the
       loss of innocence. How do I "not accept" losing my innocence? By
       convincing myself that the discovery is fake? [/quote]
       An unjust world isn't morally or even logically coherent; it's
       incompatible with truth. Self-deception would be believing evil
       to be ultimately true, valid, or acceptable. If you believe this
       lie, you will remain ever-infatuated with evil and never
       actually defeat it. You don't need to deny your discovery the
       world wasn't "how you expected", but you do need to reject the
       spiritual implication that this somehow defiles your innocence.
       [quote]"Original Nobility is throwing tantrums."
       "his idea of justice is merely revenge; outrage."
       Yes?[/quote]
       Childish tantrums (sincere moral outrage) as opposed to
       hubristic outrage. The former arises from a candid inability to
       accept the proposed conditions of reality; whereas you're
       willing to accept them, you just seek catharsis and affected
       superiority.
       Barking at your slavemaster and making his life a living hell
       doesn't actually change anything. Sharpen your blade and kill
       the fucker.
       #Post#: 3715--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
       By: guest27 Date: January 27, 2021, 7:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]In humans, revenge is usually an irrational manifestation
       of our innate desire for justice[/quote]
       Since you define "justice" as "revenge", all you're saying is
       "revenge is usually an irrational manifestation of our innate
       desire for revenge"
       [quote]We always want to reward altruistic behavior in others
       and punish them for excessive selfishness.[/quote]
       Humans reward altruistic behaviours because it benefits them,
       which in turn promotes self-serving generosity instead of
       altruism. Altruism doesn't need to be rewarded; only enabled.
       Humans punish selfish behaviour when it threatens their own
       selfish interests (this is probably what the site defines as
       "excessive" selfishness), which in turn promotes feigned
       altruism. Punishment is also something adults do to children out
       of hubris. Punishment is violent, and violence is inherently
       selfish because your victim's feelings are glossed over.
       So, our instinct to reward and punish others is noble how?
       #Post#: 3756--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
       By: guest5 Date: January 28, 2021, 12:11 pm
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       Where did I say Justice is revenge? Now you are just trying to
       juggle words and put words in my mouth.
       Justice: Just behavior or treatment. Fairness.
       Revenge: the action of inflicting hurt or harm on someone for an
       injury or wrong suffered at their hands. Retaliation.
       Justice comes out of revenge, they are not the same, because you
       can have justice without revenge in some situations. For
       example, treating people as individuals until they prove
       otherwise is also justice! Something many humans seem incapable
       of, including you. You cannot feel revenge but you can feel
       justice. Justice is what happens once revenge has occurred.
       Rewarding altruistic behavior in OTHERS does not always benefit
       the 'human' (your word choice) rewarding others, even though the
       definition I gave you was about non-humans seeking revenge.
       I cannot communicate with you anymore. You do exactly what Jews
       and "white nationalists" do in-order to maintain their own
       delusions.
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