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#Post#: 3517--------------------------------------------------
Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
By: guest27 Date: January 20, 2021, 12:55 pm
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Would it be correct (albeit poetic) to say neoteny is about
retention of childlike qualities into adulthood whereas
pedomorphy is subtraction of adultlike qualities into childhood?
Neoteny: Unadulterated. Idealistic and gracile, not necessarily
forgoing competence or stature. Non-overbearing adultlike
qualities = OK.
Pedomorphy: Uncultivated. Naive and delicate. ALL adultlike
qualities are subtracted regardless whether they're violent,
beneficial, or neutral.
#Post#: 3549--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
By: Cthens Date: January 22, 2021, 10:32 am
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Isn't Aryan what is used for those who retain or retrieve their
original nobility?
#Post#: 3560--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 23, 2021, 2:17 am
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Our use of the term "paedomorphy" in the past has been mostly
limited to the context of physiognomy. While I am open to
discussing whether some personality traits can be suitably
described as "paedomorphic", let's get physiognomy out of the
way first.
Paedomorphic physical traits are traits whose appearance give an
impression of childishness to the viewer, but which are not in
fact caused by neoteny in the subject.
(JJ used to distinguish between gracilization and what he
tentatively called "reduction", the former which he associated
with neoteny and the latter with paedomorphy. Unfortunately, I
cannot seem to find his material on this subject.)
For example, if P and Q are shorter than R and S in height, it
may be tempting to presume that P and Q are more neotenous than
R and S, since children are shorter than adults. But upon closer
inspection, we may find that P's and R's growth curves involve
lower gradient ranges than Q's and S's. This would mean that in
fact it is P and R who are more neotenous than Q and S. So how
do we explain (more neotenous) R being taller than (less
neotenous) Q? We say that Q's growth underwent "reduction", thus
despite a similar growth curve to S, the whole thing was scaled
down.
Can there be an equivalent for personality? I believe so. If we
take the traditional absolutist personality as the fully-grown
personality, a case could be made that the relativist
("liberal") personality is caused by "reduction", in contrast to
the anti-traditional absolutist personality (which we represent)
caused by gracilization. Relativists are not traditional
absolutists because they lack the intense moralizing feelings
required to be an absolutist, but by the same token they cannot
be anti-traditional absolutists. Anti-traditional absolutists
are capable of moralizing feelings as intense as those of
traditional absolutists, but pointed in the opposite direction.
"not necessarily forgoing competence or stature"
Competence is merely a wartime necessity within the material
world. It is not something we should want to have.
Neoteny includes being able to remember that we originally never
wanted to be competent.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JLFv6M2rZ0
#Post#: 3563--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
By: guest27 Date: January 23, 2021, 7:09 am
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[quote]Competence is merely a wartime necessity within the
material world. It is not something we should want to have.
Neoteny includes being able to remember that we originally never
wanted to be competent.[/quote]
Yet childhood is marked by enormous propensity for growth and
learning, and if we never wanted to be competent, surely we
would've remained lolling about on the floor?
HTML https://youtu.be/zkcN7DMUiMc
I feel a distinction needs to be made between adulteration and
cultivation. When you do something you love, you get good at it
- in the baby's case, moving. You daydream of superherodom
because of your Original Nobility, not in spite of it. Losing
our propensity for cultivation and becoming fixed and inflexible
marks the cessation of childhood, as much as does involuntary,
destructive growth to bear responsibilities when we really just
want to loll around on the floor. Maturation is synonymous with
adulteration because its end goal is maturity/cessation of
childhood (and not to mention, disintegration and death.)
[quote]Paedomorphic physical traits are traits whose appearance
give an impression of childishness to the viewer, but which are
not in fact caused by neoteny in the subject.[/quote]
Thanks for elucidating. Small stature can easily be due to early
bone fusion and precocious puberty. I don't think a steeper
growth curve alone is sufficient to define earlier maturation in
height, although due to correlation it might serve as a crude
measure. You might disagree with me but I don't think it's
meaningful we look and act identical to children, only that we
retain gracility and a childish attitude. Maybe instead of
pedomorphy I can contrast my ideal of neoteny with a kind of
primitivism, which I feel is a fetishization of childhood rather
than sincere, pure retention of childishness.
#Post#: 3570--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 23, 2021, 10:55 pm
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"Yet childhood is marked by enormous propensity for growth and
learning, and if we never wanted to be competent, surely we
would've remained lolling about on the floor?"
So that adults can keep doing anything they want to us? I
repeat, competence is a WARTIME NECESSITY.
"I feel a distinction needs to be made between adulteration and
cultivation."
Willingness to learn whatever is necessary to defeat our enemies
is cultivation. Starting to intrinsically value what we have
learned is adulteration.
"You daydream of superherodom because of your Original Nobility,
not in spite of it."
I daydream of a world where villains never existed so that
heroes do not need to exist either. Anyone who would rather
villains exist so that they can then be the hero who defeats the
villains is already part of the problem.
Dreaming of superherodom is not Original Nobility, but just
another form of Achillean hubris.
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#Post#: 3578--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
By: guest5 Date: January 24, 2021, 12:22 am
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[quote]Willingness to learn whatever is necessary to defeat our
enemies is cultivation. Starting to intrinsically value what we
have learned is adulteration.[/quote]
I do not enjoy this work at all. It makes me feel physically
sick often. I hate thinking about most of the topics we cover
here and I really wish I did not have to. I often feel like I'm
sacrificing my own health for people that do not really care
until it's already too late for them. I often wish I could
return to the bliss of my ignorance but that is not how a
Monarchist serves. This is not a hobby for me, it is a duty.
People who think this is some kind of game infuriate me.
#Post#: 3585--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
By: guest27 Date: January 24, 2021, 4:50 am
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[quote]So that adults can keep doing anything they want to
us?[/quote]
I don't let adults do whatever they want to me. I learned to
crawl because I wanted to (that being said, I vastly prefer it
to walking, so maybe I was coerced to walk). Some of my fondest
childhood memories involved learning; discarding that part of
you just because you're scared of the big bad adults sounds like
adulteration to me.
[quote]Willingness to learn whatever is necessary to defeat our
enemies is cultivation. Starting to intrinsically value what we
have learned is adulteration.[/quote]
I agree with this, but not because I think ability is
intrinsically harmful or even dangerous, but because conditional
freedom isn't real freedom. Thinking we'll only really be happy
once we've achieved some material goal is the recipe for
slavery. Arrogance is stupid hence why I often say being learned
is for tools, but it's totally possible to be humble in your
skills and stay pure.
[quote]Anyone who would rather villains exist so that they can
then be the hero who defeats the villains is already part of the
problem.[/quote]
Strongly agree with this. I would say they don't sincerely
regard them as villains. And if you keep villains around just to
enjoy torturing them? Goodness me.
[quote]Dreaming of superherodom is not Original Nobility, but
just another form of Achillean hubris.[/quote]
I daydream of superherodom so I can formulate long-term plots
without getting sidetracked by mundane challenges. Are you
saying you never do this?
#Post#: 3586--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
By: guest27 Date: January 24, 2021, 5:08 am
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[quote]I do not enjoy this work at all. It makes me feel
physically sick often. I hate thinking about most of the topics
we cover here and I really wish I did not have to. I often feel
like I'm sacrificing my own health for people that do not really
care until it's already too late for them.[/quote]
I strongly relate to this. It's very injurious to my mental
health, although I'd feel much worse if I ignored evil. Maybe I
wouldn't be anxious, maybe I'd have more material success, or
better physical health, but I'd be trading my soul. Being
personally pushed to the brink by injustice only makes me hate
it more, hence my unwillingness to tolerate the slightest trace.
#Post#: 3587--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
By: guest27 Date: January 24, 2021, 7:42 am
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It's very clear to me that you proclaim to want to return to
innocence, but believe we can't. We're not allowed to be
children, we can't have teddies or climb to the highest point of
the playground because of what the adults might do to us.
Everything we used to do or love is wrong because it's material.
We're not allowed to love anything because that's attachment.
That's not how children see it, but you lost your innocence and
now you can't see anything the same again. Goodbye Neverland
hello reigning in hell.
#Post#: 3618--------------------------------------------------
Re: Neoteny vs Pedomorphy
By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 24, 2021, 11:45 pm
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"I don't let adults do whatever they want to me."
Hence you have to be able to either escape or fight back (ie.
not loll on the floor). Thank you for proving my point.
"you proclaim to want to return to innocence"
No, I proclaim that I would have preferred to remain innocent.
"you lost your innocence and now you can't see anything the same
again"
Yes, but I will never be grateful for losing my innocence. That
is what distinguishes me from those (a.k.a. adults) who value
maturity. Both adults and I have lost our innocence, but they
convince themselves that they have gained from the process
overall, whereas I do not.
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