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       #Post#: 2998--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
   DIR By: SirGalahad
       Date: December 21, 2020, 6:38 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "The reason why we incorporate racial thinking is not in order
       to shift blame away from individuals (as True Leftists we insist
       on holding individuals accountable), but to emphasize that, on
       top of punishing as harshly as possible individuals who initiate
       violence (on this we are in closer agreement with the ancient
       civilizations than anything modern, consistent with our broader
       regressive worldview), we must out of caution prohibit their
       descendants from reproducing in order to eliminate bloodlines
       which have proven to facilitate initiation of violence (this
       part is what we consider the ancient civilizations to have
       neglected)."
       You are contradicting yourself. My position is simply that
       biology plays a significant role in behavior, and so blame
       cannot solely be cast onto individuals themselves. People are
       obviously capable of making choices (I'm not exactly a paragon
       of Aryan genetics myself), but to assert that biology plays so
       little a role in light of what we've observed of human history,
       is weird to me. Clearly you already agree with me on this, or
       else there would be no need for selective breeding in the first
       place. Basically, when you refer to Ziobots and useful idiots, I
       interpret it quite literally, because that's what they are.
       Victims of the Demiurge and his illusion. I don't see people who
       are destined to be doomed, and people destined to be saved. I
       merely see a hierarchy, where certain people are much, much
       farther from salvation than others, which by the way, is what
       most Gnostic sects and Buddhists believe. As for what you
       mentioned earlier, I'm willing to consider the Avici-style
       quintillion years of punishment, because what I truly have an
       issue with is the concept of eternal punishment, or even
       annihilation. I can't imagine why God wouldn't seek the eventual
       salvation of all, when all life derives from him. I'm not sure
       how relevant the realm of Avici is to Buddhism, since as far as
       I'm aware, it's found in sutras composed after the death of the
       Buddha. But it's always a possibility
       "You, on the other hand, are using racial thinking as a way to
       provide individuals who initiate violence with an excuse for
       their actions. This approach is fundamentally similar to that of
       other False Leftists who use mental illness/poverty/unstable
       home/etc. as excuses to get initiators of violence out of
       punishment (a modern attitude)."
       I'm not just making excuses. I differ from false leftists in
       that I promote nature over nurture, whereas false leftists abide
       by nurture over nature. To my knowledge, I have not encountered
       a single leftist outside of aryanist circles that espouses the
       idea of biology playing a role in racism or speciesism. They
       also tend to be of the opinion that societal progress will
       decrease racism and cause vegetarianism and veganism to rise,
       which I absolutely do not believe. Just because I'm giving a
       reason for the evil that people commit, that doesn't mean I
       believe that there shouldn't be consequences for their actions.
       Again, I do not agree at all with Emily's approach. I believe
       that violence can only ever be stopped through violence.
       #Post#: 3001--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
   DIR By: 90sRetroFan
       Date: December 21, 2020, 11:12 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "to assert that biology plays so little a role in light of what
       we've observed of human history, is weird to me"
       I do not assert that biology plays little role. Here is my
       response to your question again:
       --- Quote ---
       > "How can it then be reasonably claimed that what someone does
       in their lifetime is entirely determined by themselves?"
       >
       > It does not need to be entirely determined by themselves.
       >
       > "If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and
       throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or
       lame than to have two hands and two feet and be thrown into the
       eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out
       and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one
       eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell."
       - Jesus
       >
       > Those who do not do so are therefore claiming that everything
       they do is determined by themselves rather than by their
       biology, and therefore we should hold them to their own claim.
       --- End Quote ---
       The Jesus quote explicitly acknowledges that your biology could
       be influencing you. It also recommends a response. Therefore
       those who do not respond as recommended can no longer blame
       their biology when they then go on to initiate violence.
       "what I truly have an issue with is the concept of eternal
       punishment, or even annihilation. I can't imagine why God
       wouldn't seek the eventual salvation of all"
       Because this is a logical impossibility. The moment you save an
       aggressor from punishment, you resume punishing their victim.
       The only way for salvation of all is if zero violence had ever
       been initiated. But it's too late for that. Dealing with a world
       where violence has been initiated, any quantity of time spent
       not punishing the aggressor is time spent punishing the victim.
       So unless you want to argue that the victim deserves to be
       punished more, eternal punishment for the aggressor is a logical
       necessity for a just solution.
       #Post#: 3002--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
   DIR By: SirGalahad
       Date: December 22, 2020, 12:26 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I do not ask that someone who commits violence against me be
       punished eternally, because I have no use for such a punishment.
       It doesn’t undo the harm inflicted upon me, and it doesn’t
       change the fact that the person committing the violence is a
       victim trapped here as I am. What you’re preaching is completely
       contrary to Buddhist doctrine, and it doesn’t make sense
       considering one of the core tenets involves the fact that
       there’s no such thing as a true, unchanging self or soul. You
       couldn’t find a conception of an eternal hell in Buddhism,
       because such a thing doesn’t exist. And besides, this is almost
       more of a theological and philosophical difference than anything
       to do with Aryanism as an ideology
       #Post#: 3003--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
   DIR By: SirGalahad
       Date: December 22, 2020, 12:40 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       “The Jesus quote explicitly acknowledges that your biology could
       be influencing you. It also recommends a response. Therefore
       those who do not respond as recommended can no longer blame
       their biology when they then go on to initiate violence.”
       If it’s as simple as choosing to be noble, then you’re just
       promoting the typical nurture over nature view, with slightly
       more nuance. Either biology plays a significant role and people
       can’t entirely be held accountable (which, again, DOES NOT mean
       that I believe there shouldn’t be consequences for their actions
       during their lifetime), or it plays little to no role in the
       grand scheme of things. I think that the concept of brainwashed
       agents of the Demiurge, people trapped within samsara and Mara’s
       grasp, whatever fanciful way you wanna phrase it, makes more
       sense than eternal punishment or annihilation. I could at least
       understand if eternal hell or annihilation were viewed as
       unfortunate truths, but it appears that you see it as quite the
       opposite
       #Post#: 3005--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
   DIR By: TheKey888
       Date: December 22, 2020, 9:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Emily link ---
       >
       > [quote]If someone is being brutally attacked, the
       compassionate thing to do, would be to put an end to the
       violence as quickly and as swiftly as possible.
       --- End Quote ---
       But were physical force appropriate I shouldn't believe it to be
       truly "violent". If it did feel violent I shouldn't perform it
       no matter the consequences or external pressures.
       The fastest way to end violence is to reject its very notion,
       not in contrived denial but total resistance.
       --- Quote ---
       > Also, it's strange that you quote Savitri Devi when she was
       specifically for an "against time" approach, rather than simply
       being "above time".
       --- End Quote ---
       Savitri admitted the despair and materialism inherent in
       resorting to violence, and that those "above time" are saviours,
       albeit in the purely spiritual sense.
       "the salvation which the men “above Time” offer the world is
       always that which consists in breaking the time-bondage. (...)
       It is the salvation of the individual soul, never that of
       organised society. For the men “above Time” know fully well that
       that cannot be saved before the beginning of a new Time-cycle"
       "The saviours in the worldly sense of the word — those who set
       out to perfect not merely men’s souls but men’s collective life
       and government, and international relations — are what we call
       men “against Time.”
       "It (the paradise-dream) was great and beautiful when it was the
       product of the yearning, imagination and logic of such an artist
       as Akhnaton. The time had not yet come when wise men of his
       spiritual class would either, in despair, turn their backs to
       all manifestations in Time and choose the way of renunciation,
       or else, fight with the weapons of violence against the downward
       current of history — “against Time” — also in despair."
       "the world was not yet ripe — not yet corrupt enough; not yet
       visibly enough lost, — for a wise man, inspired with the dream
       of earthly Perfection, i.e. with the dream of harmony between
       earth and Cosmos, to feel himself “cornered” and, either to call
       every manifestation in Time a thing of sin and sorrow and to
       seek for Perfection in escape from the conditions of fallen
       life, through inner discipline, or else, to stick to this world
       as to his home, and to fight the increasing effects of Time in
       the advanced Dark Age, and establish a State “against Time,”
       [/quote]
       My dear girl.
       Know that your heart is in the right place. But that you are
       making poor choices here. There is a purpose for you in the
       existence. Whether it be preset or not you will come to know it
       over time. But this is not the place for you.
       Hopefully you will hear us inside and find us here on earth.
       We will be waiting for your answer. You only have to find us.
       #Post#: 3006--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
   DIR By: TheKey888
       Date: December 22, 2020, 10:04 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: 90sRetroFan link ---
       >
       > "Nobody should be held accountable for what they do while in
       the prison house of matter"
       >
       > Then you are on the side of injustice.
       >
       > "because they just as easily could have been someone noble
       during their lifetime."
       >
       > So the people who bothered to be noble in practice are no
       better those who did not just because the latter "could have
       been"?
       >
       > If so, why not do it the other way round? Everyone also could
       have been someone ignoble during their lifetime. Why not punish
       noble people because they could have been ingoble?
       >
       > "People who commit violence are victims of the Demiurge and
       its creation"
       >
       > They were victims when they were subjected to initiated
       violence (starting with being born). They became the Demiurge's
       allies when they began initiating violence on others.
       >
       > "like everyone else."
       >
       > But again, some victims behaved better than other victims. Yet
       you are saying that those who behaved better deserve to be
       treated no differently than those who behaved worse. How is that
       fair?
       >
       > "If a hell does exist, I'm of the opinion that God certainly
       wouldn't wish it on anyone,"
       >
       > I would prefer no one existed who deserves hell. But I wish
       everyone who does deserve hell to be thrown into it.
       >
       > "and eventual salvation is on the table even for those who are
       subject to hell."
       >
       > The moment someone who deserves hell is taken out, their
       victims are effectively put in hell instead, as injustice will
       have resumed. Is that what you want?
       >
       > And one more thing: one reason why the forces of the Demiurge
       want to perpetually keep the material world going is in order to
       indefinitely delay the arrival of the time when they will be
       thrown into hell. It would be accurate to describe their
       salvation as being ongoing right now (and potentially endless so
       long as they keep winning). As such, why would you give them
       another salvation on top of the one they are already continually
       constructing (using more and more initiated violence to do so,
       by the way)?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       English is not my first language but I'll do my best…
       Emily is too good for your ideology. As soon as she comes to
       realise that she will be on the correct path.
       I've watched you people for over a year now. I read everything
       you post here and on Aryanism.net and it is painstakingly
       hypocritical to say the least. But mostly a real shame because
       almost have everything correct. Racism is a problem but going by
       your overly selective nature you are not and will never be the
       answer to that problem. WE know what must be done. WE know how
       to handle this situation. And within the next sixteen years you
       will eventually cross paths with us. It would be nice to meet as
       brothers but judging by your current stance on things I don't
       think that will be possible.
       There is true goodness in this world. It is very much alive and
       well. But you clearly are not the pure people you present
       yourselves as. You know about as much about god as a plumber
       knows about a blocked toilet. There is most definitely judgement
       after this life. But depending on where you end up lies strictly
       on your choices. But what is certifiable is that eternal
       damnation is not and will never be a real thing in existence.
       Be thankful for that.
       Because the true mother and father of existence are here on
       earth with their son. Their son being one you refer to as 'God'.
       And his son being the one you refer to as 'Christ'.
       About the family of TKOH:
       We are not xenophobic towards anyone or anything that is
       innocent. We understand that LGBT terminology
       was created to divide people into groups by the enemy.
       We endorse Veganism.
       We do not endorse humanism.
       Having started our existence as mortal beings without souls, we
       died for your right to exist along with many other races in
       existence. Those we died for were the ones who brought eternal
       life or what is properly defined as timeless life into
       existence. It was always going to be an evolutionary outcome in
       one way or another. Spiritual life itself, was born of pure
       blood. (Aryan blood) We were chosen by those we saved to be the
       timeless gods. We came here to set the record straight once and
       for all. We are not responsible for your actions because your
       consciousness is completely separate to our own. We can only
       judge based on what we experience from above and on earth.
       We do not endorse Judaism, Christianity or Islam on earth on in
       TKOH. (Religions that are not our creation, but that mix our
       truth with lies. We have no problem with Wiccans.) Vile
       creations like Allah, were brought into this world to deny the
       real mother and father. Islam and christianity have stolen
       scripture from us and we are here to reclaim what is rightly
       ours.
       You will never meet peace on this earth through Judaism, Islam
       or Christianity. We are your only true salvation. Time on earth
       is your greatest judge. And time will prove us right.
       We are not leftists or rightists. Such a concept in itself is
       just another pathetic us versus them mentality.
       We are all that has ever been and all that ever will be. The
       centre of what freedom lies upon.
       We do not deny people of Jewish heritage the right to reproduce.
       (Or any other race for that matter.) Because we know how reality
       REALLY works. Blood memory is not at all what you think it is.
       Goodness roots from consciousness. (The soul) It far transcends
       the imperfect nature of this reality. If you know anything about
       evolution you will understand this.
       No life is a mistake in our eyes. If you treat other people like
       they are nothing, they will deny you a name and title. That is
       retaliation in its strictest form.
       You have the choice to rest for eternity or to live for
       eternity. Nothing is forced upon you. After a timeless rest you
       will awake to a new life, completely separate to the former. You
       can wake up with the knowledge of you once were or with no
       memory if the former life was too painful. Some people need to
       reset to heal. But you are always you. You also have the choice
       to return to this world if it is your wish.
       You will have the ability to do whatever you want with your
       heavenly body. Advanced vision, flight, and much more. You will
       all receive your own personal kingdom of heaven. Heaven itself
       is a huge kingdom with no psychical boundaries. Inside this
       kingdom are many kingdoms. Much like an apartment complex. You
       can create and enter into any world you have ever desired. Even
       if it is an exact copy of this world. (Not that I would
       personally want to relive that.) You will never be forced to
       re-incarnate back into this world which is the closest thing to
       hell there is.
       We did not place anyone on this earth against their will.
       Humanity and every other living thing, including this planet
       ended up here through evolution. Just like the soul itself. (God
       has origins.) We came here to be with you for the next sixteen
       years until the day of judgement arrives.
       Everyone who has ever truly sinned will be made accountable for
       what they have done in this life and the next. A good percentage
       of things humans have done throughout history are not decided
       from the root of their consciousness but from an outside
       influence. Whether that be another human being or a force that
       infiltrates the consciousness, only we can truly determine where
       the choice emanates from. Thus we are the timeless judges of
       existence. We use the power of simulation to show evil people
       the consequences of what they have done. It will vary from
       person to person but the results speak for themselves. If you
       cannot feel, you must learn to feel. If you do not change over
       time then segregation is needed until you do.
       We believe in defence against REAL threats. We do not believe in
       putting faith solely on weapons. We have only sixteen years to
       go so…Just be ready for the greatest judgement of all.
       We see the ugliness in western civilisation.
       We are not cosmo-theists. And judging by what you people are
       teaching. You are only a step above WN's and ZC's.
       We do not endorse people who wish to take the problems of this
       world and extend them into outer space.
       We are here to settle things on earth and create a new system
       that will enable every human being to live with respect for
       their life and no longer be a slave to any former system that
       seeks to deny them  basic needs. This is only temporary as
       someday people will be leaving this reality for TKOH. We are
       here to create a balance until then. Not too different to where
       you people allegedly stand on things.
       Words of the mother and father:
       ''Those who find us will find themselves.''
       ''True wisdom can never be truly written for it can only be
       truly lived.''
       ''We died for your right to ascension. Those who live by our
       example will rightfully ascend.'' (Within your own personal
       kingdom in TKOH you will be your own god for eternity. But you
       must earn this.)
       ''I am but a tiny star safe within you. For you are my timeless
       existence.''
       ''Timeless love, life, rest and family.'' (You have a choice
       upon your death! Something that would never have been under such
       a god as Allah or the false representation of Christ.)
       ''The kingdom of heaven is a tree with many branches. We are the
       timeless roots.''
       ''My presence is with you through all. Those who love me, will
       know my pain, those who hate me will know my sorrow. And those
       who harm my children will feel my wrath.''
       ''My love of you could change a thousand worlds.''
       ''My womb holds the world safe within, as I am held safe within
       the arms of our father existence.''
       (Everything has a root and a purpose. Nobody stands alone. The
       want to belong is natural.)
       ''The holiest soul has no fixed character, only nobility.''
       (Gender is non existant in spirit.''
       ''Your smile lights up the world.''
       ''Pain is brief, sorrow is long, our love of our children is
       timeless.''
       ''Out of the darkness he arrived, like a father to a lost child
       whose cries were finally heard.'' (Evolved as a family to all
       that has ever been and all that ever will be. All of existence
       will return to us. We are the only ones who will NEVER betray
       you!)
       Glad I could clear all that up.
       We will all meet as friends some day. I'll leave you with this.
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bumnhgNKp-I
       #Post#: 3009--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
   DIR By: Ganbaru
       Date: December 22, 2020, 10:32 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: TheKey888 link ---
       >
       > Emily is too good for your ideology.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       false-left backup trooper going in strong with the
       keyboard-assisted oral defecation
       you probably have a big jaw anyways
       #Post#: 3010--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
   DIR By: 90sRetroFan
       Date: December 22, 2020, 11:18 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "I do not ask that someone who commits violence against me be
       punished eternally"
       You may not. But would you agree that an innocent victim who
       does ask that deserves to have their request granted?
       "I could at least understand if eternal hell or annihilation
       were viewed as unfortunate truths, but it appears that you see
       it as quite the opposite"
       Eternal hell is unfortunate compared to the hypothetical
       existence in which zero violence was ever initiated by anyone.
       On the other hand, given that initiated violence has already
       occurred, eternal hell for the initiators is the only adequate
       compensation. Without hell, there could be no authentic heaven
       either.
       #Post#: 3014--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
   DIR By: Flutter60Hz
       Date: December 23, 2020, 3:32 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The idea of eternal punishment, or eternal anything, has always
       disgusted me. Likewise, I would have seen anyone wishing eternal
       punishment on other mortals as inferior. Forgiveness following
       sincere repentence seems infinitely superior to me. I would veto
       an “innocent” victims request for eternal punishment simply
       because their request is an inferior choice. This does not mean
       forgiveness must be achieved on Earth, or that I am against
       “harsh” punishments.
       Perhaps part of my view comes from the fact that I do not
       believe in innocence on Earth. I have done violent things during
       my life (according to our broader meaning of violence), often
       while believing I was on the side of truth or fairness. I am
       thankful for the main site which showed me (or, reminded me!) of
       why what I did and promoted was violent. If you have never made
       a violent decision and think I am just projecting here, good for
       you. Either you are a divine super-Jesus-like being buried on an
       obscure forum for some bizarre reason, or you are merely a
       sheltered and arrogant theorist. I would guess the latter.
       Kindness to others must be active, and doing things in the real
       world often leads to difficult decisions which tempt violent
       (again, in our use of the word) choices.
       To me, someone who has made mistakes while working to improve
       the world and reduce violence is superior to someone who hides
       from the world scared of getting their hands dirty. Yet by your
       way of thinking, the latter goes to Heaven while the former is
       punished for eternity.
       #Post#: 3017--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
   DIR By: Trina Hall
       Date: December 23, 2020, 9:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Ganbaru link ---
       >
       > [quote author=TheKey888 link=topic=345.msg3006#msg3006
       date=1608653061]
       > Emily is too good for your ideology.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       false-left backup trooper going in strong with the
       keyboard-assisted oral defecation
       you probably have a big jaw anyways
       [/quote]
       Hello there! Fellow False-Left Backup Trooper here.  ;)
       We are not Jews/Gentiles. We are not White either, and we have
       oval faces and small jaws.
       But it doesn't matter what people look like to us. Because we
       are not seeing with one eye open like most of the people here.
       You are obsessed with the external which makes you ironically
       similar to Jews/Gentiles in nature. And that is why you are
       loosing. You are not our future. You are our past.
       We are fighting for a better, cleaner and in the truest sense,
       more Holy world. We are what you could only dream of being.
       We are ready and we not afraid of your deceitful kind.
       *****************************************************
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