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#Post#: 2919--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
DIR By: guest5
Date: December 18, 2020, 12:10 am
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--- Quote ---
> Also, it doesn't really make sense to assert that a soul
emanated from the divine could be inherently, and irredeemably
evil, in of itself.
--- End Quote ---
Unless of course those sparks of the divine are made to forget
where they originated from, perhaps this is why the Demiurge
created the material world in the first place right, so that he
could forever wave trinkets and baubles in the faces of those
divine sparks whom forget who they are as time passes on,
ensuring that they continue to forget their true nature? And,
perhaps the more they forget the less divine they become?
Perhaps this is also part of the Demiurge's plan to destroy God
and escape hell himself once and for all?
#Post#: 2920--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
DIR By: guest5
Date: December 18, 2020, 12:19 am
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Interestingly, sometimes when I design new fonts I draw random
words. I once found a picture I drew I totally forgot about, it
was of the word 'remember'. All three letter e's looked like the
number 9, or 6 if you turned it upside down. I drew the picture
before I knew anything of Gnosticism, but found it again after I
had learned some things of gnosis. I always think of that
picture now when I think along the lines of what I stated in the
post above. A little strange. That's how gnosis often manifests
in my life...
#Post#: 2933--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
DIR By: SirGalahad
Date: December 18, 2020, 2:27 am
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"But not all sparks of light react the same way to being trapped
in matter. That difference in reaction is what leads to
different behaviour."
You have no way of knowing this.
"Again, I could flip it around and claim that nobody willingly
chooses to do good. So should we now punish the good people
along with the evil people because we assume the good they did
wasn't really their own choice?"
Isn't the entire point of Aryanism, that biology plays a role in
behavior and one's moral framework? And that we should be
selectively breeding people to make the task of struggling
against ignobility easier? How can it then be reasonably claimed
that what someone does in their lifetime is entirely determined
by themselves?
"We don't need to know. Once you start this line of thinking,
you are heading down the Vedic slippery slope where eventually
you will be telling victims of initiated violence that they are
merely receiving payback for stuff they did in past lives."
When did I say that everything bad that happens to someone, is
because of what they've done in past lives? This doesn't have
anything to do with what I said, and it's also a false
dichotomy.
"You are advocating for a hypotheticalist worldview where no
matter what someone actually did, we are supposed to ignore that
and instead treat them according to what they might have done
otherwise. This obviously works to the advantage of those who do
the most evil and to the disadvantage of those who do the least.
Imagine what would happen if a sports referee used your
approach."
I'm not advocating for this either. People who do evil should be
eliminated, and people who do good should be protected and
treated kindly.
Also, your point about hell in Aryan religion isn't true.
Buddhism and Jainism don't have a conception of an eternal hell
where people suffer forever. The Buddha never once mentioned
individuals who have zero chance at salvation.
#Post#: 2936--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
DIR By: guest5
Date: December 18, 2020, 4:27 pm
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--- Quote ---
> Everyone's trying their best. No one wants to be on the side
of evil. No one deserves hell. Stop sadistically punishing
people and focus on actually ending violence.
--- End Quote ---
If everyone is doing their best why is this world so wicked?
No one wants to be on the side of evil? How do you know this?
But, then again I guess the following image isn't evil to Jews
because Palestinians are gentiles\goyim so killing them doesn't
really count anyway, right? And, on top of that you don't
believe these people deserve retaliatory violence?
HTML https://i.pinimg.com/originals/de/81/f8/de81f8926e121bb66712eac8e1075cef.jpg
What about these witch doctors, do they not deserve retaliatory
violence either?:
Child sacrifice is on the rise in Uganda. Meet the team fighting
witch doctors.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Kk5lr_2_Q&feature=emb_title
[img]
HTML https://wrestledwithangels.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/do-unto-others-.jpg?w=390&h=365[/img]
The Golden rule should be the basis of all moral and ethical
thought, but alas, doesn't seem like most people can even live
by this, the simplest of rules. Yet, you believe everyone is
doing their best?
Sounds like to me that you are just looking for any excuse you
can to continue being a dishonorable coward. You clearly have
very little compassion or empathy for others and you're trying
to mask it because the idea of being retaliated against makes
you squirm in your seat.
#Post#: 2957--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 18, 2020, 11:32 pm
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"You have no way of knowing this."
If someone tells me they themselves chose to do something, I
will believe them.
"Isn't the entire point of Aryanism, that biology plays a role
in behavior and one's moral framework? And that we should be
selectively breeding people to make the task of struggling
against ignobility easier?"
Yes and yes.
"How can it then be reasonably claimed that what someone does in
their lifetime is entirely determined by themselves?"
It does not need to be entirely determined by themselves.
"If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and
throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or
lame than to have two hands and two feet and be thrown into the
eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out
and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one
eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell."
- Jesus
Those who do not do so are therefore claiming that everything
they do is determined by themselves rather than by their
biology, and therefore we should hold them to their own claim.
"People who do evil should be eliminated, and people who do good
should be protected and treated kindly."
OK, we agree on this much. But originally we were talking about
the afterlife. If you believe good people should be treated
kindly, you should at least agree that evil people should be
thrown into hell if doing so will reduce the trauma of the good
people who were victims of violence initiated by the evil
people.
"Buddhism and Jainism don't have a conception of an eternal hell
where people suffer forever."
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Av%C4%ABci
--- Quote ---
> Avīci is sometimes cited as lasting 3.39738624×10^18 or
339,738,624×10^10 years,[5] about 3.4 quintillion years.
--- End Quote ---
Would you at least agree with the above duration of punishment?
At least it represents an upgrade over the maximum possible
punishment we can inflict in this world.
#Post#: 2964--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
DIR By: guest27
Date: December 19, 2020, 4:21 am
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--- Quote ---
> If everyone is doing their best why is this world so wicked?
--- End Quote ---
Accident. We can't know the consequences of our actions, nor can
anyone will violence. Nature wasn't malicious when it evolved
sentience. A child isn't malicious when they open the door to
Mr. Wolf.
--- Quote ---
> No one wants to be on the side of evil? How do you know this?
--- End Quote ---
Evil is inherently repulsive. Good is inherently attractive. Our
moral differences are merely differences in where we ascribe our
sense of good and evil, based on empirical knowledge. Not that
good and evil flip flop around and suddenly evil is attractive
and good is repulsive depending on the person ~
I'm not squeamish to cause or experience pain, injury, death for
the sake of antiviolence. However, no one wants to endure
violence; that's its very nature, violation of consent. I live
by the Golden Rule, how about you?
#Post#: 2967--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 19, 2020, 2:42 pm
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"Isn't the entire point of Aryanism, that biology plays a role
in behavior and one's moral framework? And that we should be
selectively breeding people to make the task of struggling
against ignobility easier?"
After further thought, I have classified you as a False Left
Aryanist. Let me explain.
The reason why we incorporate racial thinking is not in order to
shift blame away from individuals (as True Leftists we insist on
holding individuals accountable), but to emphasize that, on top
of punishing as harshly as possible individuals who initiate
violence (on this we are in closer agreement with the ancient
civilizations than anything modern, consistent with our broader
regressive worldview), we must out of caution prohibit their
descendants from reproducing in order to eliminate bloodlines
which have proven to facilitate initiation of violence (this
part is what we consider the ancient civilizations to have
neglected).
You, on the other hand, are using racial thinking as a way to
provide individuals who initiate violence with an excuse for
their actions. This approach is fundamentally similar to that of
other False Leftists who use mental illness/poverty/unstable
home/etc. as excuses to get initiators of violence out of
punishment (a modern attitude). Admittedly, your position is one
that I had previously failed to anticipate (since I had naively
assumed that everyone interested in our movement had already
rejected modern thinking in general). This debate has alerted me
to the need of adding this point to the upcoming update to the
main site. Thank you.
It is further worth noting that True Leftists are similar to
traditionalists in our belief in harsh punishment. We radically
differ from traditionalists, however, in what we advocate
punishing people for (traditionalists support punishing people
for a variety of non-violent but anti-traditional actions, as
well as for retaliatory violence against traditional initiated
violence)!
#Post#: 2968--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
DIR By: guest27
Date: December 19, 2020, 3:12 pm
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--- Quote ---
> as True Leftists we insist on holding individuals accountable
--- End Quote ---
I don't read what SirGalahad said as "shifting the blame"
(sotospeak). Revealing the pitfalls of biology/circumstance
creates accountability since it empowers us to choose our
destiny.
Surely the argument is that individuals aren't inherently
malicious/guilty, not that they aren't accountable.
Accountability shouldn't be mistaken for blame, or guilt.
Accountability implies a duty to address and resolve problems;
it should be applied universally and equally.
We are all born innocent. Why would the innocent choose evil?
#Post#: 2975--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
DIR By: guest27
Date: December 20, 2020, 4:16 am
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I accuse you of "shifting the blame", or rather, shirking your
duty, by offloading accountability onto a portion of people,
forcing them alone to bear the burden of evil. You're also
scapegoating, since no souls are inherently guilty while others
innocent, if you believe in original innocence.
#Post#: 2990--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ideal Methods > Natural Methods
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 20, 2020, 11:25 pm
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"Accountability implies a duty to address and resolve problems;
it should be applied universally and equally."
Accountability cannot be equal when behaviour is not identical.
There should be one set of standards of accountability (which is
what we have). After the standards have already been set, some
people will meet the standards and others will not. Those who
meet the standards should not be treated equally to those who do
not meet the standards (otherwise they are not standards).
"We are all born innocent. Why would the innocent choose evil?"
Nature rewards evil.
"offloading accountability onto a portion of people, forcing
them alone to bear the burden of evil"
I did not force them to behave as they did.
"no souls are inherently guilty while others innocent, if you
believe in original innocence."
They were not inherently guilty. They became guilty by their
behaviour.
But thank you anyway for exposing your incompatibility with our
ideology.
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