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#Post#: 31964--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 16, 2026, 8:35 pm
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"most people understand a crying baby is usually distressed or
uncomfortable and needs relief."
A crying baby can usually be relieved without killing them.
(Also, I myself have never seen a baby crying prior to birth.)
"So, gamble on their suffering."
I don't make a profit either way, therefore not a gamble.
"Pick one:"
Each person decides for themselves.
"- A compassionate human decides, despite not being explicitly
requested to"
You sound like every tyrannical parent justifying the violence
they initiate towards their offspring.
#Post#: 31966--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: Aucontraire Date: January 16, 2026, 9:25 pm
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[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=3339.msg31964#msg31964
date=1768617308]
A crying baby can usually be relieved without killing them.
(Also, I myself have never seen a baby crying prior to birth.)
[/quote]
Irrelevant.
[quote]
I don't make a profit either way, therefore not a
gamble.[/quote]
Gambling on someone else's behalf is still gambling.
[quote]
Each person decides for themselves.
[/quote]
Not an option for a baby who is literally still in the womb. Try
again.
#Post#: 31967--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 16, 2026, 10:18 pm
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"Irrelevant."
You were the one who brought it up!
"Gambling on someone else's behalf is still gambling."
That's what you would be doing by killing them without
permission.
"Not an option for a baby who is literally still in the womb."
You are illiterate:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/abortion-kindness/msg31960/#msg31960
[quote]Wait for their instruction.[/quote]
#Post#: 31968--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: Aucontraire Date: January 17, 2026, 3:17 am
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[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=3339.msg31967#msg31967
date=1768623491]
You were the one who brought it up!
[/quote]
That their suffering can usually be temporarily relieved
non-lethally is irrelevant because they still have to suffer in
the first place and what we're discussing is a preventative
measure (abortion). And "usually" is far from adequate.
[quote]
That's what you would be doing by killing them without
permission.
[/quote]
I never denied that abortion would be a gamble. By forcing them
out of the game, they might never "lose", but they also won't
"win".
You are denying that letting nature force them to stay in is a
gamble.
While you "wait" for their command, they'll have to suffer
repeated consent violations.
After already being forced into the game in the first place!
#Post#: 31974--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 17, 2026, 5:16 pm
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"what we're discussing is a preventative measure" (abortion)."
Preventing conception is the genuine preventive measure.
"I never denied that abortion would be a gamble. By forcing them
out of the game, they might never "lose", but they also won't
"win". You are denying that letting nature force them to stay in
is a gamble."
If it is a gamble either way, what are you complaining about?
"While you "wait" for their command, they'll have to suffer
repeated consent violations."
Again you sound like every tyrannical parent arguing that not
forcing their offspring to learn XYZ before they themselves ask
to learn it is equivalent to stealing from them.
#Post#: 31975--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: Aucontraire Date: January 17, 2026, 6:14 pm
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[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=3339.msg31974#msg31974
date=1768691770]
Preventing conception is the genuine preventive measure.[/quote]
So we shouldn't bother with others, when that is no longer
available?
Your insane arguments come off as desperation.
[quote]
If it is a gamble either way, what are you complaining
about?[/quote]
I could ask you the same question.
[quote]
Again you sound like every tyrannical parent arguing that not
forcing their offspring to learn XYZ before they themselves ask
to learn it is equivalent to stealing from them.
[/quote]
Interesting analogy.
Because you are the one worried about something (life) being
"stolen" from the child.
And are willing to let nature (and parents) force things on them
so they might have a chance to gain.
If you intend on keeping an infant in your care alive, you
yourself would have to repeatedly force things on them. Bathing,
changing, any required medical treatments, and birth itself.
Your choice is between 1 additional consent violation, and many.
Between 1 (if performed early) painless procedure, and many
painful, distressing, or uncomfortable ones.
Your fellow traveller Christian Bethel said Aryanists hate life,
but you seem to worship it!
#Post#: 31980--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: christianbethel Date: January 18, 2026, 2:28 pm
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'Your fellow traveller Christian Bethel said Aryanists hate
life, but you seem to worship it!'
Nope. You're just illiterate.
#Post#: 31982--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 18, 2026, 5:20 pm
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"So we shouldn't bother with others, when that is no longer
available?"
There is no other preventive measure. Abortion, a response to
conception, is remedial by definition.
"I could ask you the same question."
I did not bring up gambling.
"Because you are the one worried about something (life) being
"stolen" from the child."
I am worried about initiated violence.
"And are willing to let nature (and parents) force things on
them so they might have a chance to gain."
You are again ignoring that I am opposed to conception.
"If you intend on keeping an infant in your care alive, you
yourself would have to repeatedly force things on them. Bathing,
changing, any required medical treatments, and birth itself."
Of course I would try my best to never use force, but instead
only act in response to cues from them. I may not be flawless in
this. But so long as the infant is not my offspring, it is not
my fault for being an imperfect carer, as I am dealing with a
problem that I did not create. If I were the infant, I would
feel respected by any carers who did not conceive me but who are
sincerely trying to figure out what I want from them, certainly
more than I would feel respected by aborters who (just like
conceivers, and just like tyrannical parents) think they know
better than I do.
"Your choice is between 1 additional consent violation, and
many.
Between 1 (if performed early) painless procedure, and many
painful, distressing, or uncomfortable ones."
Now you sound like every tyrannical parent justifying
prohibiting their offspring from dating.
"Your fellow traveller Christian Bethel said Aryanists hate
life, but you seem to worship it!"
Then why am I opposed to conception?
#Post#: 31984--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: Aucontraire Date: January 18, 2026, 9:36 pm
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[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=3339.msg31982#msg31982
date=1768778456]
There is no other preventive measure. Abortion, a response to
conception, is remedial by definition.
[/quote]
How dishonest. We're cleary talking about preventing suffering
and greater violence, not preventing conception (although,
abortion is the only reliable, widely legal way to prevent the
individual themselves conceiving).
[quote]
I did not bring up gambling.
[/quote]
My question wasn't "who brought up gambling?"
[quote]
I am worried about initiated violence.
[/quote]
If you were, then you'd be worried about the initiated violence
of survival and birth, not just conception and death.
[quote]
Of course I would try my best to never use force, but instead
only act in response to cues from them. I may not be flawless in
this. But so long as the infant is not my offspring, it is not
my fault for being an imperfect carer, as I am dealing with a
problem that I did not create. If I were the infant, I would
feel respected by any carers who did not conceive me but who are
sincerely trying to figure out what I want from them, certainly
more than I would feel respected by aborters who (just like
conceivers, and just like tyrannical parents) think they know
better than I do.
[/quote]
"who think they know better than I do"
This is the position you take every single time you use force.
When you pin a baby down and force a diaper on them,
When you cram them into a carseat or force them into a jacket,
When you grab them from a dangerous ledge, stop them pulling a
heavy piece of furniture onto themselves, or swipe a button
battery out of their mouth,
They might be screaming and trying frantically to escape. That's
clear communication. But you do it anyway, because you think you
know better than they do.
I sincerely wonder why you think it's ok to commit violence to
preserve life, but not to create it?
[quote]
Now you sound like every tyrannical parent justifying
prohibiting their offspring from dating.
[/quote]
This would mean ongoing violence and emotional pain. Again, this
is far more similar to what you're supporting (repeated acts of
violence for unrequested life preservation).
[quote]
Then why am I opposed to conception?
[/quote]
Because you're inconsistent.
#Post#: 31991--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 19, 2026, 6:34 pm
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"preventing suffering and greater violence"
The path of least suffering and the path of least violence are
rarely the same path. Which is your priority?
"If you were, then you'd be worried about the initiated violence
of survival and birth, not just conception and death."
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/abortion-kindness/msg31946/#msg31946
"When you pin a baby down and force a diaper on them,
When you cram them into a carseat or force them into a jacket,
When you grab them from a dangerous ledge, stop them pulling a
heavy piece of furniture onto themselves, or swipe a button
battery out of their mouth,"
None of which I would do (or have ever done in the past). On the
main site I explicitly state:
[quote]Any action without the child�s consent, or which
overrides the child�s refusal, or which otherwise involves
force, is a violent action.
...
Talking to a child who does not want to listen is violence.
Confiscating a child�s possessions is violence. Forcefully
interrupting a child�s activity is violence. Making the child go
anywhere the child does not want to go, or making the child
leave anywhere the child does not want to leave, is violence.
Any form of imposition, any form of pressure, any decision made
that disregards the child�s wishes is violence.[/quote]
But you are both illiterate and hallucinatory.
"what you're supporting (repeated acts of violence for
unrequested life preservation)."
Where do I support this? Please post an exact quote.
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