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#Post#: 31922--------------------------------------------------
Abortion = Kindness?
By: Aucontraire Date: January 10, 2026, 1:52 pm
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You don't want to be killed because you've grown attached to
life and afraid of death. Innocence means babies have not. They
don't consent to life or death. They have no discernable
preference. They grow and survive because they are programmed
to. Not because they will it — because nature wills it.
Aryanists understand life means they will have a body. That they
will suffer and decay. They believe this outweighs any supposed
"advantages". That life isn't a gift but a curse. Yet Aryanists
advocate letting nature impose this curse on unborn babies, on
top of having state authorities coerce people to carry through
unwanted pregnancies. They also advocate exploiting children by
selectively conceiving them to further their political aims.
What say you in your defense?
#Post#: 31923--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 10, 2026, 4:19 pm
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"They don't consent to life or death."
I agree. This is why we eventually want an end to conceptions:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/re-childcare-issues/
"Aryanists advocate letting nature impose this curse on unborn
babies"
We do not. We are looking for the path that will lead to the end
of this.
"on top of having state authorities coerce people to carry
through unwanted pregnancies"
If you are referring to our advocacy for state control over
reproduction, I have stated previously that no one will be
coerced to conceive. Instead, we will incentivize the racially
superior to conceive by offering the prevention of a larger
number of conceptions by the racially inferior in exchange.
Recall from the main site:
[quote]The one and only ethical way to motivate Aryans to
reproduce is to set up a system such that the more they
reproduce, the fewer the total number of children being born.
For example, the state could set an initial maximum limit of
total births for each year. But then the state could add a rule
that, for each one birth by the pre-designated Aryan subset
within the population, it will lower the limit for the following
year by two births. This would mean that each Aryan birth
produces a net effect of preventing one child from being born.
Hence the more enthusiastic we are about depopulation, the more
we would reproduce. (The incentive can be amplified by
increasing the arithmetic gradient as required e.g. each Aryan
birth could prevent 10, 100, 1000, etc. children from being
born.)[/quote]
"They also advocate exploiting children by selectively
conceiving them to further their political aims."
If you are advocating instead that the state should directly
prevent all conceptions simultaneously, I agree that this would
be more ideal, but fear that it would be impractical and lead to
the state running out of staffers (and hence losing control over
the population) before mission completion, following which the
remainder who outlasted us will just go back to their old
habits.
If you wish to propose an alternative antinatalist plan, I would
be happy to read it.
#Post#: 31927--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: Aucontraire Date: January 11, 2026, 5:20 pm
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[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=3339.msg31923#msg31923
date=1768083553]
If you are referring to our advocacy for state control over
reproduction, I have stated previously that no one will be
coerced to conceive.
[/quote]
The topic was abortion. I'm going to give you the benefit of the
doubt that you accidentally glanced over that.
#Post#: 31929--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 11, 2026, 7:04 pm
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"The topic was abortion."
So you want me to answer:
[quote]Abortion = Kindness?[/quote]
Kindness is about actively helping others in achieving their
aims. I would agree that abortion is kindness towards those who
regret conceiving. (Whether they deserve it is another matter.)
Abortion is however not kindness towards the conceived, since
they have not expressed a preference either way, as you yourself
note:
[quote]They don't consent to life or death. They have no
discernable preference.[/quote]
It would be kinder to the conceived to keep them safe until they
have expressed a preference one way or another, and only
thereafter help them on whichever path they prefer. So,
logically, the only people who could consistently believe
abortion=kindness overall would be those who deem that kindness
towards conceivers should take priority over kindness towards
the conceived.
#Post#: 31935--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: Aucontraire Date: January 13, 2026, 12:44 am
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[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=3339.msg31929#msg31929
date=1768179885]
It would be kinder to the conceived to keep them safe until they
have expressed a preference one way or another, and only
thereafter help them on whichever path they prefer.
[/quote]
Exposing them to life's cruelty is hardly "keeping them safe",
is it? Do you listen when a newborn cries, or do think that's
not a clear enough expression of preference?
#Post#: 31936--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 13, 2026, 1:19 am
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"Do you listen when a newborn cries, or do think that's not a
clear enough expression of preference?"
Also you:
[quote]They have no discernable preference.[/quote]
Pick one.
#Post#: 31937--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: Aucontraire Date: January 13, 2026, 3:55 am
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[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=3339.msg31936#msg31936
date=1768288745]
Pick one.
[/quote]
You're deflecting. Answer the questions.
Or don't. I don't care. It's clear babies don't want to suffer.
If they don't prefer life or death, there's no need to let that
question delay intervention.
#Post#: 31938--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 13, 2026, 5:17 pm
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"If they don't prefer life or death, there's no need to let that
question delay intervention."
If they have no preference, intervention is neither kindness nor
unkindness towards them. It is initiated violence, though, since
you have not been given permission by them to choose on their
behalf.
Do you understand the difference between a signed contract with
a declaration that the signer has no preference in a given
matter (therefore passing the choice to others) and a similar
contract without a signature? You are arguing in effect that the
latter entitles you to choose on behalf of everyone who didn't
sign.
#Post#: 31939--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: Aucontraire Date: January 14, 2026, 2:55 am
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[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=3339.msg31938#msg31938
date=1768346261]
If they have no preference, intervention is neither kindness nor
unkindness towards them. It is initiated violence, though, since
you have not been given permission by them to choose on their
behalf.
Do you understand the difference between a signed contract with
a declaration that the signer has no preference in a given
matter (therefore passing the choice to others) and a similar
contract without a signature? You are arguing in effect that the
latter entitles you to choose on behalf of everyone who didn't
sign.
[/quote]
I was referring to intervention in their suffering. The end
(non-suffering) is their clear preference, they just can't
answer which means they'd prefer. Just like if you were to
choose "on their behalf" between non-lethal treatments, like
different kinds of analgesic, or a warm bath or some milk and a
cuddle.
But, besides (apparently) attacking an argument I didn't make,
your reasoning has a major flaw: Babies have no "choice" they
can "pass to others" in the first place. Nature is already
choosing on their behalf, without their consent. Any
intervention would be in violence which is already being
committed — not in an individual's agency over whether they live
or die.
#Post#: 31943--------------------------------------------------
Re: Abortion = Kindness?
By: christianbethel Date: January 14, 2026, 12:23 pm
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[quote author=Aucontraire link=topic=3339.msg31922#msg31922
date=1768074779]
You don't want to be killed because you've grown attached to
life and afraid of death.[/quote]
We hate life. We only live to complete our mission.
[quote author=Aucontraire link=topic=3339.msg31922#msg31922
date=1768074779] Innocence means babies have not. They don't
consent to life or death. They have no discernable preference.
They grow and survive because they are programmed to. Not
because they will it — because nature wills it.[/quote]
The only way to stop this cycle of torture is to prevent them
from being conceived in the first place.
[quote author=Aucontraire link=topic=3339.msg31922#msg31922
date=1768074779]Aryanists understand life means they will have a
body. That they will suffer and decay. They believe this
outweighs any supposed "advantages". That life isn't a gift but
a curse. Yet Aryanists advocate letting nature impose this curse
on unborn babies, on top of having state authorities coerce
people to carry through unwanted pregnancies. They also advocate
exploiting children by selectively conceiving them to further
their political aims.
What say you in your defense?
[/quote]
Everything you just said is the opposite of what we believe in.
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