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       #Post#: 31798--------------------------------------------------
       Re: National Socialists were socialists
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 26, 2025, 4:38 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "I am not illiterate"
       Yes, you are. Even PotatoChip noticed it:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/msg31790/#msg31790
       "Moreover, the existence of high-value, expensive areas creates
       an incentive for the affluent class to adopt a condescending
       attitude toward those from underprivileged backgrounds, merely
       because the latter possess weaker purchasing power to consume
       more expensive products and services."
       Moreover, the existence of trousers creates an incentive for
       those with legs to adopt a condescending attitude towards those
       without legs, merely because the latter possess weaker modelling
       power to wear trousers.
       #Post#: 31799--------------------------------------------------
       Re: National Socialists were socialists
       By: antihellenistic Date: December 26, 2025, 6:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote][quote]"I am not illiterate"[/quote]
       Yes, you are. Even PotatoChip noticed it:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/msg31790/#msg31790[/quote]
       It is, in fact, your literacy that needs improvement. Historical
       facts have been clearly laid out showing Hitler’s closeness to
       command economic theory and Bolshevik thought, yet you reject
       all of this. The historical evidence does not come solely from
       foreign media outside Hitler’s regime at the time, but is also
       demonstrated through Hitler’s own thinking over the years.
       It is a falsehood for someone to claim to be a socialist and
       spiritually aware while refusing to acknowledge the inherent
       evils of capital accumulation and the laws of market mechanisms
       that have prevailed throughout human history.
       You cannot even provide an example of how workers could be
       liberated from the practices of exploitation and extortion
       carried out by the owners of the means of production if the
       environment and economic activities continue to operate under
       the laws of the market and so-called ‘free enterprise.
       If you wish to understand socialism, then first acknowledge the
       factual analyses presented in Das Kapital, which Hitler himself
       also accepted and agreed with as a work by Marx
       [quote][quote]"Moreover, the existence of high-value, expensive
       areas creates an incentive for the affluent class to adopt a
       condescending attitude toward those from underprivileged
       backgrounds, merely because the latter possess weaker purchasing
       power to consume more expensive products and services."[/quote]
       Moreover, the existence of trousers creates an incentive for
       those with legs to adopt a condescending attitude towards those
       without legs, merely because the latter possess weaker modelling
       power to wear trousers.[/quote]
       Regulating and disciplining the middle class and the bourgeoisie
       that generate social pathologies cannot be equated with an
       analogy that compares able-bodied people with those who are
       disabled. Disciplining them does not mean rendering the middle
       class and the bourgeoisie disabled. It simply means that they
       must not possess individual ownership; everything must be
       regulated by those who are deemed to understand society—namely,
       the vanguard ranks and the Führer (the head of state).
       Recall :
       Hitler's Hatred toward the bourgeoise
       [quote]The position of the German bourgeoisie was always the
       same, in that it opposed these attempts at reform and believed
       it could turn back the hands of time ... Only a few years ago
       the miners had a nine-hour day and wanted to reduce it to an
       eight-hour day. The whole bourgeois press took the view that
       this was impossible. When the miners then went on strike, it
       went completely wild. Now I know very well that at the time
       hundreds of thousands of those bourgeois joined in the shouting,
       but only because they did not know what the real issue was. Had
       they only gone down under the ground once for eight hours, nay
       only for four hours, they would have said, no, nobody can stand
       that. - Adolf Hitler, 26 March 1927 [1] [Page 205]
       ...
       ... the political German bourgeoisie has developed into one of
       the greatest curses of the German nation. Had the revolution of
       1918 only sent the bourgeois parties to the devil instead of the
       nobility, the German nation could ultimately have honestly
       thanked Marxism, because for the German nation today the old
       Roman proverb, in an amended wording, applies more than ever
       before: Lord protect Germany from its friends of the bourgeois
       parties, one way or the other it will then be able to deal with
       its Marxist enemies! - Adolf Hitler, 4 January 1930 [2] [Page
       228]
       ...
       On 28 June 1930 Hitler wrote in the Illustrierte Beobachter that
       the bourgeois parties and their men ‘were capable of any
       nastiness’, that everything ‘the bourgeois parties put their
       hands on’ goes under. ‘Were Bolshevism not out to destroy the
       best racial élite, but only to clean out the bourgeois party
       vermin, one would almost be tempted to bless it.’ [3] [Page 228]
       ...
       Many a bourgeois who condemns the worker’s striving for an
       improvement in his economic situation with an outrage that is as
       unwise as it is unjust would possibly suddenly think completely
       differently if for only three weeks he would have had laid on
       his shoulders the burden of the work demanded of the others.
       Even today there are still countless bourgeois elements who most
       indignantly reject a demand for a wage of ten marks a month, and
       especially any sharp support of this, as a ‘Marxist crime’, but
       display complete incomprehension when faced with a demand to
       also limit the excessive profits of certain individuals. - Adolf
       Hitler, 1 November 1930 [4] [Page 206]
       ...
       This democratization led to the state first falling into the
       hands of certain social classes who identified themselves with
       material possessions, with being employers. The broad masses
       increasingly got the feeling that the state itself was not an
       objective institution standing above mundane matters, above all
       that it no longer embodied an objective authority, but that the
       state itself was the product of the economic desires and the
       business interests of certain groups within the nation, and that
       the leadership of the state also justified such a claim. The
       victory of the political bourgeoisie was after all nothing more
       than the victory of a social class which had developed out of
       the laws of business, which for its part did not fulfil even the
       most minor conditions for a genuine political leadership, and
       which, above all, made political leadership dependent on the
       constantly fluctuating conditions of economic life and the
       effects of this economic life in the areas of the influencing of
       the masses, the preparing of public opinion and so forth. In
       other words, the people quite rightly had the feeling that in
       all sectors of life there was a natural selection going on,
       always dependent on the suitability for this particular sector
       of life, except in one sector: in the sector of political
       leadership. In this sector of political leadership one suddenly
       turned to that result of a selection which owed its existence to
       a completely different process. - Adolf Hitler, 10 May 1933 [5]
       [Page 224]
       ...
       On 24 February 1940 Hitler declared that the
       bourgeois-capitalist world had already collapsed, its age
       already long outdated: This collapse must take place everywhere
       in some form or other and it will not fail to materialize
       anywhere.’ [6] The German nation could not, said Hitler, ‘live
       with the bourgeois social order at all’. [7] In a conversation
       with the Hungarian ‘Leader of the Nation’ Szálasi, Hitler
       declared on 4 December 1944 that the ‘bourgeois European world’
       would break down ever further and all that was left was the
       alternative ‘that either a sensible social order were created on
       a national level, or that Bolshevism would take over’. [8] [Page
       230]
       ...
       Hitler also sharply attacked the bourgeoisie in his table talks
       and made it responsible for the development of Marxism and the
       spread of Communism. On 2 August 1941, for example, he said:
       It is no wonder that Communism had its strongest bulwark in
       Saxony, and that we only won over the Saxon worker very
       gradually, and also that he is now one of the most loyal: the
       bourgeoisie there was of an almost imbecile bigotry. In the eyes
       of Saxon business we were also Communists; whoever supports a
       social equality for the masses is a Bolshevist! The sins
       committed against the Saxon home workers are unimaginable. That
       was a plutocracy such as in England today. In Saxony the
       Wehrmacht had already detected a gradual decay of the human
       material. I do not blame any one of the little people that he
       was a Communist, I can only blame that on the intellectual: he
       knew that for him the poverty was only a means to an end. If you
       look at this vermin of a bourgeoisie, you still get red in the
       face today. The masses followed the only way left open to them.
       The worker took no part in national life. To the uncovering of a
       Bismarck memorial, for example, or the launching of a ship, a
       delegation of workers was never invited; all you saw there was
       top hats and uniforms. For me the top hat is identical to the
       bourgeoisie. - Adolf Hitler, 2 August 1941 [9][Page 207]
       ...
       Even in his final speeches Hitler still expressed his
       convictions about the necessary collapse of the bourgeois world,
       of the ending of the historic mission of the bourgeoisie. In his
       last New Year address on 1 January 1945 he prophesied that
       ... the bourgeois social order is no longer able to resist the
       storms of today, let alone those of coming times; state after
       state which does not find the way to a truly social
       restructuring will descend into chaos. The liberal age has been
       and gone. To believe one can oppose this storm of the nations by
       parliamentary-democratic half measures is child*sh, just as
       naive as Metternich’s methods were against the mutually
       reinforcing efforts at national unification of the nineteenth
       century. [10] [Page 230][/quote]
       Source :
       1. BA (Bundesarchiv Koblenz)/NS 26/54, f. 148, speech on 26
       March 1927
       2. IB (Illustrierter Beobachter), 5th year set, issue 1 of 4
       January 1930, p. 7
       3. Ibid., issue 26 of 28 June 1930, p. 405
       4. IB (Illustrierter Beobachter), 5th year set, issue 44 of 1
       November 1930, p. 765
       5. Speech at the congress of the DAF on 10 May 1933, in ‘Young
       Germany Wants Work and Peace ...’, p. 48 et seq
       6. Bouhler I/II, p. 162, speech on 24 February 1940
       7. Ibid., p. 164
       8. Conversation with Szálasi on 4 December 1944, Hillgruber,
       Statesmen II, p. 527
       9. Monologues, p. 51, entry for 2 August 1941
  HTML https://archive.org/details/monologe-im-fuehrerhauptquartier/page/36/mode/2up?q=da%C3%9F+der+Kommunismus+in+Sachsen
       10. Domarus, p. 2183, speech on 1 January 1945
       11. Hitler's National Socialism by Rainer Zitelmann Page 205,
       228, 224, 230, 207, and 230
  HTML https://ia801207.us.archive.org/13/items/adolf-hitler-archive/Hitler%27s%20National%20Socialism%202022.pdf
       #Post#: 31800--------------------------------------------------
       Re: National Socialists were socialists
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 26, 2025, 4:25 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "Historical facts have been clearly laid out showing Hitler’s
       closeness to command economic theory and Bolshevik thought, yet
       you reject all of this."
       Of course I reject it! I have an entire topic encouraging
       leftists to own firearms:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/firearms/
       Does this mean I am more similar to rightists who like firearms
       (and therefore own firearms) than to False Leftists who dislike
       firearms (and therefore refuse to own firearms)? No, it means
       that I am aware that rightists own firearms and therefore that
       leftists will be defeated by rightists in civil war unless they
       also own firearms! None of which implies that I have "closeness"
       to firearms! I wish firearms had never been invented in the
       first place FFS!
       Your theory (that Hitler sincerely liked communism) cannot
       account for Operation Barbarossa, whereas my theory (that Hitler
       understood how dangerous communism was, which requires
       acknowledging its strengths) would be surprised if Operation
       Barbarossa had not happened.
       See also:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/msg31790/#msg31790
       "You cannot even provide an example of how workers could be
       liberated from the practices of exploitation and extortion
       carried out by the owners of the means of production if the
       environment and economic activities continue to operate under
       the laws of the market and so-called ‘free enterprise."
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/msg30564/#msg30564
       [quote]You keep talking about workers being exploited by the
       private sector, but the sufficient solution is for the state to
       ensure that public sector jobs are readily available, so that
       workers dissatisfied with their private sector jobs can easily
       switch to public sector jobs. You, however, want to eliminate
       private sector jobs altogether. Then what if the public sector
       is exploitative? I want to maintain the private sector precisely
       to guard against this possibility, so that workers dissatisfied
       with their public sector jobs can also easily switch back to
       private sector jobs. But what is your solution for workers
       exploited by the public sector if no private sector exists as an
       alternative?[/quote]
       "If you wish to understand socialism, then first acknowledge the
       factual analyses presented in Das Kapital"
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/msg30607/?topicseen#msg30607
       [quote]It looks like you missed Zea_mays' original point:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/national-socialism-is-revolutionary-not-reactionary/msg10612/#msg10612
       [quote]The True Left must reframe the relationship to accurately
       contextualize Marxist Socialism as merely one type of Socialism
       among many(?) possibilities.[/quote][/quote]
       #Post#: 31804--------------------------------------------------
       Re: National Socialists were socialists
       By: SodaPop Date: December 26, 2025, 11:29 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]Lenin was the greatest man, second only to Hitler, and
       that the difference between communism and the Hitler faith was
       very slight. - Joseph Goebbels, The New York Times, “HITLERITE
       RIOT IN BERLIN: Beer Glasses Fly When Speaker Compares Hitler
       and Lenin,” (Nov. 28, 1925) p. 4. Note: according to Curt Riess,
       journalist, author, and Jewish refugee who fled Nazi Germany,
       Goebbels was “praising Lenin” and drawing “parallels between
       Bolshevists and the Nazis.” By April of 1926, Hitler told him to
       stop. (Joseph Goebbels: A Biography, Doubleday & Company, Garden
       City, New York (1948) p. 31[/quote]
       [quote]The red color of our posters alone attracted them into
       our meeting-halls. The ordinary privileged class was quite
       horrified to see us using the red of the Bolsheviks and regarded
       it as very
       Nationalists kept whispering to one another their suspicion that
       basically, we were only a variation of
       Marxists or some kind
       have still not grasped the difference between Socialism and
       Marxism. When they discovered that we omitted the standard
       greeting “ladies and gentlemen” and instead used “comrades” and
       that among ourselves we spoke only of “Party comrades”, many saw
       this as proof
       laughter at these simpleminded, scared privileged class
       with their clever guesswork about our origin, our intentions,
       and
       page 346.[/quote]
       Sounds familiar? Somethings never change. Well, on second
       thought the "sacred privileged class rabbits" are no longer
       capable of "clever guesswork" these days.  ;D
       #Post#: 31807--------------------------------------------------
       Re: National Socialists were socialists
       By: antihellenistic Date: December 27, 2025, 6:11 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]Does this mean I am more similar to rightists who like
       firearms (and therefore own firearms) than to False Leftists who
       dislike firearms (and therefore refuse to own firearms)? No, it
       means that I am aware that rightists own firearms and therefore
       that leftists will be defeated by rightists in civil war unless
       they also own firearms! None of which implies that I have
       "closeness" to firearms! I wish firearms had never been invented
       in the first place FFS!
       Your theory (that Hitler sincerely liked communism) cannot
       account for Operation Barbarossa, whereas my theory (that Hitler
       understood how dangerous communism was, which requires
       acknowledging its strengths) would be surprised if Operation
       Barbarossa had not happened.[/quote]
       It is inaccurate for you to assume that my conclusion is that
       Hitler was close to and sympathetic toward Bolshevism, or that
       ‘Hitler was a Bolshevik.’ I am merely stating that the socialist
       society led by Hitler employed mechanisms of governance and an
       economic system similar to those implemented by Lenin and the
       vanguard of the Bolshevik Party. However, Hitler applied
       socialism with the additional implantation of so-called
       universal spiritual values and rejected the advancement of
       stages of industrialization, as well as rejecting the
       development of social consciousness based on the theory of
       dialectical materialism.
       Furthermore, Hitler attacked Russia not because it was ruled by
       communists, but due to his desire to expand territorial power
       and his anti-Slavic sentiment. He also believed that in order to
       implement an ideal society, forces adhering to different
       ideologies had to have their power destroyed; this was likewise
       a cause behind Hitler’s attacks on Russia and on capitalist
       states across the European continent. Moreover, toward the end
       of the war, Hitler stated that he had found it difficult to
       decide whether to launch an attack on Russia.
       [quote]For me, the most difficult decision in this war was the
       order to attack Russia. I have always believed that Germany must
       never fight on two fronts, and no one should doubt that I
       studied and reflected upon Napoleon’s experience in Russia more
       than anyone else. So, why was there a war against Russia? Why
       did I choose that path at the time?
       There was no longer any hope for us to end the war in the West
       by attacking the British Isles. That country—led by fools—would
       refuse to recognize our leadership and reject an honest peace
       agreement as long as the powers within Europe that were
       essentially hostile to the Reich remained undefeated. The war
       would have to continue indefinitely; a war in which America was
       becoming increasingly involved behind the scenes. The human and
       material potential of the United States, its constant growth in
       military technology and new weapons—both on the enemy’s side and
       on ours—and the threatening proximity of the English coast—all
       of this forced us to try to prevent a prolonged war by every
       possible means. Time—always time!—would inevitably work against
       us at an ever-increasing pace.
       The only way to force Britain to make peace was to destroy the
       Red Army and thereby eliminate their hope of opposing us on the
       continent with an equal adversary. We had no choice but to
       remove the Russian factor from the balance of power in Europe.
       There was a second reason of equal weight, which on its own
       would have been sufficient to justify this action: the latent
       danger posed by the existence of Bolshevism. An attack from that
       direction was certain to occur one day.
       Our only chance to win a victory over Russia lay in anticipating
       their assault; for a defensive war against the Soviet Union was
       impossible for us. Under no circumstances could we allow the Red
       Army to enjoy the advantage of our terrain—our open ground
       suited for tank warfare, our highways ideal for the movement of
       their armored units, and our railways suitable for transporting
       their troops and materials. We could defeat the Bolsheviks in
       their forests, swamps, and open steppes if we acted in time—but
       we could never defeat them on terrain favorable to traffic and
       maneuver, such as our own lands. To wait for their attack would
       have meant opening the road for the enemy to march into Europe.
       — Adolf Hitler, 15 February 1945[/quote]
       Source :
       Hitlers politisches Testament die Bormann Diktate vom Februar
       und April 1945 Page 28
       Hitler's plan to attack Europe, written by Hermann Rauschning,
       the German politician and author, adherent of the Conservative
       Revolution movement who briefly joined the NSDAP movement before
       breaking with it.
       [quote]Hitler : "I shall do everything in my power to prevent
       cooperation between Britain and France. If I succeed in bringing
       in Italy and Britain on our side, the first part of our struggle
       for power will be greatly facilitated. Anyhow, we don't for a
       moment pretend to believe that this degenerate Jewish democracy
       has any more vitality than France or the United States. It will
       be my mission to see that at least an effort is made to inherit
       this disintegrating empire peacefully, so that conflict can be
       avoided entirely. But I shall not shrink from war with Britain
       if it is necessary. Where Napoleon failed, I shall succeed.
       Today there is no such thing as an island. I shall land on the
       shores of Britain. I shall destroy her towns from the mainland.
       Britain does not yet know how vulnerable she is today."
       Hermann Rauschning : "But supposing Britain, France and Russia
       make an alliance?"
       "That would be the end. But even if we could not conquer then,
       we should drag half the world into destruction with us, and
       leave no one to triumph over Germany. There will not be another
       1918. We shall not surrender."
       ...
       Hitler : "We need space to make us independent of every possible
       political grouping and alliance. In the east, we must have the
       mastery as far as the Caucasus and Iran. In the west, we need
       the French coast. We need Flanders and Holland. Above all we
       need Sweden. We must become a colonial power. We must have a sea
       power equal to that of Britain. The material basis for
       independence grows with the increasing demands of technique and
       armaments. We cannot, like Bismarck, limit ourselves to national
       aims. We must rule Europe or fall apart as a nation, fall back
       into the chaos of small states. Now do you understand why I
       cannot be limited, either in the east or in the west?"
       ...
       "In the center I shall place the steely core of a Greater
       Germany welded into an indissoluble unity. Then Austria,
       Bohemia, and Moravia, western Poland. A block of one hundred
       million, indestructible, without a flaw, without an alien
       element, the firm foundation of our power. Then an Eastern
       alliance: Poland, the Baltic states, Hungary, the Balkan states,
       the Ukraine, the Volga basin, Georgia. An alliance, but not of
       equal partners; it will be an alliance of vassal states, with no
       army, no separate policy, no separate economy. I have no
       intention of making concessions on sentimental grounds, such as
       re-establishing Hungary, for example. I make no distinction
       between friends and enemies. The day of small states is past, in
       the west as well. I shall have a Western Union too, of Holland,
       Flanders, Northern France, and a Northern Union of Denmark,
       Sweden and Norway."
       Raushcning writes on Voice of Destruction : Hitler's imagination
       ranged over the entire world. He would attack Britain at all its
       weakest points, India no less than Canada. He planned the
       occupation of Sweden as well as Holland. The latter country, in
       particular, seemed to him valuable jumping-off ground for air
       and underwater attacks on England.
       Hitler : "In less than eight hours we shall break through to
       their coast, if they don't like it, they can try to drive me
       out. In any case they will have to bear the main burden of
       attack. The day of Britain's might at sea is past. Aircraft and
       the U-boat have turned surface fleets into the obsolete
       playthings of the wealthy democracies. They are no longer a
       serious weapon in decisive warfare."[/quote]
       Source :
       The Voice Of Destruction by Hermann Rauschning page 120 - 126
  HTML https://archive.org/details/voiceofdestructi027169mbp/page/n129/mode/2up
       [quote][quote]"You cannot even provide an example of how workers
       could be liberated from the practices of exploitation and
       extortion carried out by the owners of the means of production
       if the environment and economic activities continue to operate
       under the laws of the market and so-called ‘free
       enterprise."[/quote]
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/msg30564/#msg30564
       You keep talking about workers being exploited by the private
       sector, but the sufficient solution is for the state to ensure
       that public sector jobs are readily available, so that workers
       dissatisfied with their private sector jobs can easily switch to
       public sector jobs. You, however, want to eliminate private
       sector jobs altogether. Then what if the public sector is
       exploitative? I want to maintain the private sector precisely to
       guard against this possibility, so that workers dissatisfied
       with their public sector jobs can also easily switch back to
       private sector jobs. But what is your solution for workers
       exploited by the public sector if no private sector exists as an
       alternative?[/quote]
       Competitive labor sectors that operate according to market laws
       tend to enable aggressive and manipulative individuals to
       flourish and have their instincts satisfied; therefore, such
       competitive labor sectors should be confined by the state to the
       private sphere and subjected to proper oversight. Individuals
       with high IQs tend to adapt easily to competitive work
       environments, yet they are often unable or unwilling to
       recognize that such conditions give rise to social violence,
       spiritual and psychological degradation, and systemic racism. If
       we continue to allow society to operate democratically and
       competitive on public domain, both in social interactions and
       economic activity, then degeneration will persist, and high-IQ
       groups such as the white race and Jews will tend to obstruct
       easily the enforcement of socialism and what is regarded as
       cultivation of original nobility.
       @SodaPop
       [quote][quote]Lenin was the greatest man, second only to Hitler,
       and that the difference between communism and the Hitler faith
       was very slight. - Joseph Goebbels, The New York Times,
       “HITLERITE RIOT IN BERLIN: Beer Glasses Fly When Speaker
       Compares Hitler and Lenin,” (Nov. 28, 1925) p. 4. Note:
       according to Curt Riess, journalist, author, and Jewish refugee
       who fled Nazi Germany, Goebbels was “praising Lenin” and drawing
       “parallels between Bolshevists and the Nazis.” By April of 1926,
       Hitler told him to stop. (Joseph Goebbels: A Biography,
       Doubleday & Company, Garden City, New York (1948) p. 31[/quote]
       [quote]The red color of our posters alone attracted them into
       our meeting-halls. The ordinary privileged class was quite
       horrified to see us using the red of the Bolsheviks and regarded
       it as very   curious scandal. The spirits among German
       Nationalists kept whispering to one another their suspicion that
       basically, we were only a variation of   Marxism, maybe even
       Marxists or some kind   of Socialists in disguise. These brains
       have still not grasped the difference between Socialism and
       Marxism. When they discovered that we omitted the standard
       greeting “ladies and gentlemen” and instead used “comrades” and
       that among ourselves we spoke only of “Party comrades”, many saw
       this as proof   of the Marxist ghost. How often we shook with
       laughter at these simpleminded, scared privileged class
       rabbits with their clever guesswork about our origin, our
       intentions, and   our aim... - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ford
       Translation, page 346.[/quote]
       Sounds familiar? Somethings never change. Well, on second
       thought the "sacred privileged class rabbits" are no longer
       capable of "clever guesswork" these days.  ;D[/quote]
       Once again, I am explaining that stating Hitler was inspired by
       Marxist thought and the Bolshevik Party does not mean that I
       regard him as a leader who struggled to achieve the objectives
       of those two ideologies
       #Post#: 31808--------------------------------------------------
       Re: National Socialists were socialists
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 27, 2025, 2:03 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "It is inaccurate for you to assume that my conclusion is that
       Hitler was close to and sympathetic toward Bolshevism"
       Also you:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/msg31800/#msg31800
       [quote]Historical facts have been clearly laid out showing
       Hitler’s closeness to command economic theory and Bolshevik
       thought, yet you reject all of this.[/quote]
       "competitive labor sectors should be confined by the state to
       the private sphere and subjected to proper oversight."
       Pick one.
       #Post#: 31809--------------------------------------------------
       Re: National Socialists were socialists
       By: antihellenistic Date: December 27, 2025, 6:14 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]"It is inaccurate for you to assume that my conclusion is
       that Hitler was close to and sympathetic toward Bolshevism"
       Also you:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/msg31800/#msg31800
       [quote]Historical facts have been clearly laid out showing
       Hitler’s closeness to command economic theory and Bolshevik
       thought, yet you reject all of this.[/quote][/quote]
       Hitler was only close to Bolshevik thought, not sympathetic to
       or supportive of the Bolshevik objective of achieving global
       communism. His support for a planned economy, a one-party state,
       and the confiscation of assets from the middle class, capital
       owners (the bourgeoisie), businesspeople, and landlords reflects
       a line of thinking that imitated the Bolsheviks and the ideas of
       Vladimir Lenin. However, Hitler’s leadership also embodied goals
       and life values that were more spiritual in nature,
       anti-humanistic, and dualistic—values that are absent from
       Marxist socialist thought
       [quote][quote]"competitive labor sectors should be confined by
       the state to the private sphere and subjected to proper
       oversight."[/quote]
       Pick one.[/quote]
       If restricting competitive activities to only limited areas
       within the overall territory of the state constitutes a form of
       oversight, then I support ‘proper oversight. For me, such
       restrictive measures are referred to as ensuring that
       competitive activities within society are confined to limited
       private domains and are not carried out across the entire
       territory of the state.
       #Post#: 31810--------------------------------------------------
       Re: National Socialists were socialists
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 27, 2025, 6:26 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       You are just making meaningless statements in order to avoid
       admitting you have no clue what you are talking about.
       #Post#: 31812--------------------------------------------------
       Re: National Socialists were socialists
       By: antihellenistic Date: December 27, 2025, 8:45 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]You are just making meaningless statements in order to
       avoid admitting you have no clue what you are talking
       about.[/quote]
       In other words, because of your stance, I believe you remain
       unwilling to accept my constructive arguments. There is no true
       freedom as long as we fail to recognize that national
       bourgeoisification and the enforcement of market laws in social
       life are the primary obstacles on the path toward liberation
       #Post#: 31813--------------------------------------------------
       Re: National Socialists were socialists
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 27, 2025, 9:02 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "enforcement of market laws"
       Pick one.
       *****************************************************
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