DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
True Left
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Questions & Debates
*****************************************************
#Post#: 31598--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 9, 2025, 3:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"I am not misrepresenting anything"
So you admit this was a lie:
[quote]they tend to choose what provides the greatest
satisfaction rather than what is most affordable[/quote]
Yes or no?
#Post#: 31599--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: SodaPop Date: December 9, 2025, 1:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"The white race won competition in that era by preventing those
they defeated from gaining the power to resist. Slavery was one
of the methods used to achieve this. Persistently preventing a
group or an individual from rising up is itself a form of
competition"
The true competition between "whites" and "blacks" was for
higher social status with colonial elites in the American
colonies. "Whites" did win that competition. I disagree with
your statement. Oppression is survivalism on behalf of the
oppressor, not competition. Cows could never compete with humans
for survival, yet they are oppressed and slaughtered by humans
for survival, as an example of why not all oppression is based
in competition. Humans left the food chain a long time ago.
There are no non-humans that can compete with humans, and humans
could easily survive without oppressing and slaughtering over
1.1 trillion non-humans a year. The environment would certainly
be better off for it as well if humans stopped doing this. In
fact, this practice is actually endangering human survival if we
take climate change and environmental degradation into account,
yet humans still participate in this practice...
#Post#: 31731--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: December 21, 2025, 4:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=3223.msg31598#msg31598
date=1765270999]
"I am not misrepresenting anything"
So you admit this was a lie:
[quote]they tend to choose what provides the greatest
satisfaction rather than what is most affordable[/quote]
Yes or no?
[/quote]
No, they tend to prioritize satisfying products over affordable
ones. They still choose products that are affordable in price
but produced through the exploitation of labor, rather than
products that are truly affordable both in price and in the work
process. Therefore, I am not expressing a dishonest opinion
toward you
#Post#: 31732--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 21, 2025, 5:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"No, they tend to prioritize satisfying products over affordable
ones."
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/msg31555/#msg31555
[quote]Then why does making a product more affordable
consistently increase its market share relative to similar
products of different brands?[/quote]
#Post#: 31733--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: December 21, 2025, 6:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=3223.msg31732#msg31732
date=1766359838]
"No, they tend to prioritize satisfying products over affordable
ones."
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/msg31555/#msg31555
[quote]Then why does making a product more affordable
consistently increase its market share relative to similar
products of different brands?[/quote]
[/quote]
Because affordable products today tend to align with the
preferences of the majority of consumers, they can easily
increase market share. However, affordability in today’s
products still pays little attention to whether the methods and
processes of production are themselves affordable or fair. As a
result, affordable products in today’s market economy are not
truly affordable in a genuine sense, because they remain
unaffordable to those who work in the production process and yet
possess limited capacity and power.
@SodaPop
[quote]The true competition between "whites" and "blacks" was
for higher social status with colonial elites in the American
colonies. "Whites" did win that competition. I disagree with
your statement. Oppression is survivalism on behalf of the
oppressor, not competition. Cows could never compete with humans
for survival, yet they are oppressed and slaughtered by humans
for survival, as an example of why not all oppression is based
in competition. Humans left the food chain a long time ago.
There are no non-humans that can compete with humans, and humans
could easily survive without oppressing and slaughtering over
1.1 trillion non-humans a year. The environment would certainly
be better off for it as well if humans stopped doing this. In
fact, this practice is actually endangering human survival if we
take climate change and environmental degradation into account,
yet humans still participate in this practice...[/quote]
Oppression arises when one party seeks victory by actively
preventing others from attaining it. What you described earlier
as acts of mutual devouring are, in fact, expressions of
competition. Competition, in this sense, refers to a condition
in which a particular party continuously survives and prevails
by defeating others. Therefore, the phenomena you explained
still fall within the framework of competitive behavior rather
than existing outside of it
You can try to reconsider the meaning of competition :
[quote]Competition is a rivalry where two or more parties strive
for a common goal which cannot be shared: where one's gain is
the other's loss (an example of which is a zero-sum game).[1]
Competition can arise between entities such as organisms,
individuals, economic and social groups, etc. The rivalry can be
over attainment of any exclusive goal, including recognition.
...
Competition is a major tenet of market economies and business,
often associated with business competition as companies are in
competition with at least one other firm over the same group of
customers. Competition inside a company is usually stimulated
with the larger purpose of meeting and reaching higher quality
of services or improved products that the company may produce or
develop[/quote]
Source :
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition
What was Hitler’s view on competition?
[quote]Judaism began launching systematic efforts to undermine
our nation from within, and in this endeavor it found its best
allies among obstinate bourgeois citizens who refused to
recognize that the era of the bourgeois world had come to an end
and would never return—that the age of unrestrained economic
liberalism was obsolete and could only lead to its own
destruction.”
— Adolf Hitler, 30 January 1945
Statements made by Hitler between 1935 and 1945, particularly
from the early 1940s onward, indicate that he had become a harsh
critic of the free-market economic system and an increasingly
firm advocate of a state-controlled, centrally planned
economy.[/quote]
Source :
1. Zitelmann, R. (2022). The role of anti-capitalism in Hitler's
world view. Economic Affairs, 42(3), 515–527.
HTML https://doi.org/10.1111/ecaf.12551
(Page 523 - 524)
2. Domarus, M. (1973). Hitler: Reden und Proklamationen
1932–1945: Kommentiert von einem deutschen Zeitgenossen (Vol.
2). R. Löwit. Page 2196
[quote]According to the logic of the free market and the
so-called natural law of competition, Hitler argued that in many
cases one cannot expect individuals to act in the interest of
the common good. For example,
one cannot expect a person who happens to produce nitrogen to
say, “I think it would be wiser now to sell it at a price 20
percent lower.” No—we cannot demand that of him. Such an action
can only be recognized as necessary from a higher standpoint,
and then one must say, “This must be done.” But we cannot expect
the individual himself to make such a decision.
Or, for instance, if I demand that another person agree that we
in Germany should produce our own fuel, while that person earns
his livelihood from fuel trading—well, one cannot expect him to
say, “I think it is a splendid idea that you will produce your
own fuel.”
The same applies to international rubber buyers or rubber
merchants who are then asked to decide whether Germany should
build Buna synthetic rubber plants. He will certainly say, “I
think that is madness—completely impossible.”
In all such cases, there is a clear contradiction between
capitalist private interests and the general political interests
defined by the state. According to Hitler’s view, the state
always has both the right and the duty to enforce the general
political interest over capitalist private interests.[/quote]
Source :
Hitler: The Policies of Seduction by Rainer Zitelmann Page 215
HTML https://archive.org/details/hitlerpoliciesof0000zite/mode/2up?q=expect+a+man+who+happens+to+produce
#Post#: 31734--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 21, 2025, 6:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
You:
[quote]affordable products today tend to align with the
preferences of the majority of consumers[/quote]
Also you:
[quote]they tend to prioritize satisfying products over
affordable ones.[/quote]
Which is it?
#Post#: 31735--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: December 21, 2025, 7:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=3223.msg31734#msg31734
date=1766364190]
You:
[quote]affordable products today tend to align with the
preferences of the majority of consumers[/quote]
Also you:
[quote]they tend to prioritize satisfying products over
affordable ones.[/quote]
Which is it?
[/quote]
Remember :
[quote]However, affordability in today’s products still pays
little attention to whether the methods and processes of
production are themselves affordable or fair. ...[/quote]
A product can only be genuinely affordable when its production
process is affordable as well, not just its price at the point
of purchase. Thus, I continue to hold the opinion that I
believe, ”they [the majority of consumers] tend to prioritize
satisfying products over affordable ones."
#Post#: 31736--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 21, 2025, 8:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
So this:
[quote]affordable products today tend to align with the
preferences of the majority of consumers[/quote]
was a lie.
#Post#: 31737--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: antihellenistic Date: December 22, 2025, 4:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=3223.msg31736#msg31736
date=1766369287]
So this:
[quote]affordable products today tend to align with the
preferences of the majority of consumers[/quote]
was a lie.
[/quote]
If you interpret an affordable product as merely meaning ‘a
low-priced product,’ then your quotation of my statement is
incorrect, and you may call me a ‘liar.’ However, if the meaning
of an affordable product is not only one that is inexpensive,
but also one that can be produced affordably by workers with
varying levels of ability, then my statement remains valid.
#Post#: 31738--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 22, 2025, 4:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So you think some businesses sell products for less than what it
cost to produce them?
*****************************************************
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page