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#Post#: 31563--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: December 5, 2025, 9:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"Those who determine whether a product is fit for
consumption and affordable are the people who possess expertise
in understanding society and the state, especially its
leadership."
--- End Quote ---
What if the competitive people (whom you worry about having too
much power) get into these positions and then falsely claim that
the products produced by their rivals are unfit for
consumption?[/quote]
A competitive person will inevitably be evident from the various
opinions they express. They will certainly desire complex and
less accessible forms of production. And if they do not wish to
appear as wanting such things, it will still be noticeable
through the various actions they take—from the moment they begin
engaging in activities to when they attempt to enter an
organization or community. Therefore, strict handling and
selection of prospective members within the party and leadership
is the only solution
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"It is not the consumers who make this judgment, for
they tend to choose what provides the greatest satisfaction
rather than what is most affordable and socially necessary"
--- End Quote ---
Then why does making a product more affordable consistently
increase its market share relative to similar products of
different brands?[/quote]
Products that sell in the marketplace under competitive market
laws tend to be made through complicated processes and require
machines for production efficiency and quality improvement. And
if they do not use expensive machines, they usually rely on the
exploitation of labor by employing workers for more than 8 hours
per day. They are also given work demands that always prioritize
increasing production quality without considering the limits of
workers’ diverse capacities. Yet these demands for higher
production quality exist only to win competition in order to
gain approval from consumers who constantly desire more
satisfying products. In reality, the previous products were
still perfectly suitable for consumption, even if they were not
highly satisfying to consumers, and the production process could
have been carried out with demands that were manageable for
workers of varying abilities—from those with minimal skills to
those with expert-level skills
The right way to address attitudes that prioritize efficiency
and material quality over workers’ well-being is to plan every
work activity and regulate the consumption patterns of
consumers, so that they develop the discipline to engage in
forms of consumption that ensure affordability for the workers
who produce those goods. They should also become accustomed to
consuming affordable products rather than expensive ones made
through labor processes that exclude the diverse range of
existing work abilities.
The cause of physical, psychological, and social oppression
toward vulnerable groups—those who are weak yet sensitive and
non-destructive—lies in the enforcement of competitive living by
leaders of a state or community. As a result, groups with high
cognitive ability, who always appear to have positive value, end
up dominating the nation’s finances, impoverishing and degrading
those who lose in competition. Yet those who lose in competition
are not always destructive or aggressive, and they still deserve
positive regard and support within the community.
In fact, historically, it is the groups that accumulate capital
and dominate markets that tend to cause major harm—such as
creating structural poverty, which brings hardship to large
segments of society.
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"No, that is not possible."
--- End Quote ---
Then you are initiating violence.
...
"what Hitler wanted and envisioned in the years after 1940"
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa
--- Quote ---
> Operation Barbarossa[g] was the invasion of the Soviet Union
by Nazi Germany
> ...
> The operation, code-named after the Holy Roman Emperor
Frederick Barbarossa ("red beard"), put into action Nazi
Germany's ideological goals of eradicating communism
> ...
> Before and during the invasion of the Soviet Union, German
troops were indoctrinated with anti-Bolshevik, anti-Semitic and
anti-Slavic ideology via movies, radio, lectures, books, and
leaflets.[46]
> ...
> both Jews and communists were considered equivalent enemies of
the Nazi state.
> ...
> Hitler told one of his generals in June 1940 that the
victories in Western Europe finally freed his hands for a "final
showdown" with Bolshevism.[81]
> ...
> Hitler, solely focused on his ultimate ideological goal of
eliminating the Soviet Union and Communism, disagreed with
economists about the risks and told his right-hand man Hermann
Göring, the chief of the Luftwaffe, that he would no longer
listen to misgivings about the economic dangers of a war with
the USSR.[93]
> ...
> The Hunger Plan outlined how entire urban populations of
conquered territories were to be starved to death,[k] thus
creating an agricultural surplus to feed Germany and urban space
for the German upper class.[97]
--- End Quote ---
;D[/quote]
Cruel violence against first-time perpetrators (e.g., the upper
classes, such as the bourgeoisie, landlords, the middle class,
and conservatives) is justified, considering that they
perpetrate systemic and structural violence against innocent
people. Moreover, most of the victims are poor, less fortunate,
and have sensitive personalities, even though these people do
not commit major damage and violence for the first time like the
upper class people I mentioned earlier.
--- Quote ---
> On 28 June 1930 Hitler wrote in the Illustrierte Beobachter
that the bourgeois parties and their men ‘were capable of any
nastiness’, that everything ‘the bourgeois parties put their
hands on’ goes under. ‘Were Bolshevism not out to destroy the
best racial élite, but only to clean out the bourgeois party
vermin, one would almost be tempted to bless it.’ [1] [Page 228]
>
> ...
>
> Many a bourgeois who condemns the worker’s striving for an
improvement in his economic situation with an outrage that is as
unwise as it is unjust would possibly suddenly think completely
differently if for only three weeks he would have had laid on
his shoulders the burden of the work demanded of the others.
Even today there are still countless bourgeois elements who most
indignantly reject a demand for a wage of ten marks a month, and
especially any sharp support of this, as a ‘Marxist crime’, but
display complete incomprehension when faced with a demand to
also limit the excessive profits of certain individuals. - Adolf
Hitler, 1 November 1930 [2][3][Page 206]
>
> On 24 February 1940 Hitler declared that the
bourgeois-capitalist world had already collapsed, its age
already long outdated: This collapse must take place everywhere
in some form or other and it will not fail to materialize
anywhere.’ [6] The German nation could not, said Hitler, ‘live
with the bourgeois social order at all’. [4] In a conversation
with the Hungarian ‘Leader of the Nation’ Szálasi, Hitler
declared on 4 December 1944 that the ‘bourgeois European world’
would break down ever further and all that was left was the
alternative ‘that either a sensible social order were created on
a national level, or that Bolshevism would take over’. [5] [Page
230]
--- End Quote ---
Source :
1. IB (Illustrierter Beobachter), 5th year set, issue 26 of 28
June 1930, p. 405
2. IB (Illustrierter Beobachter), 5th year set, issue 44 of 1
November 1930, p. 765
3. Hitler's National Socialism by Rainer Zitelmann Page 228, 206
and 230
HTML https://ia801207.us.archive.org/13/items/adolf-hitler-archive/Hitler%27s%20National%20Socialism%202022.pdf
4. Bouhler I/II, p. 162, speech on 24 February 1940
5. Ibid., p. 164
--- Quote ---
> I want everyone to keep what he has earned subject to the
principle that the good of the community takes priority over
that of the individual. But the State should retain control;
every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State. . .
. The Third Reich will always retain the right to control
property owners
>
> We will do what we like with the bourgeoisie. . . We give the
orders; they do what they are told. Any resistance will be
broken ruthlessly. . . You just tell the German bourgeoisie that
I shall be finished with them far quicker than I shall with
Marxism - Adolf Hitler
--- End Quote ---
Source :
Secret Conversations with Hitler: The Two Newly-discovered 1931
Interviews Page 32 - 33 and 36
HTML https://books.google.co.id/books?redir_esc=y&hl=id&id=EyxoAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=retain+control
--- Quote ---
> Earlier on February 28, 1933, the Nazis essentially abolished
property rights under a decree that nullified Article 153 of the
Weimar Constitution, “which guaranteed private property in
accordance with certain legally defined conditions."
>
> . . The conception of property has experienced a fundamental
change. The individualistic conception of the State—a result of
the liberal spirit—must give way to the concept that communal
welfare precedes individual welfare. (Gemeinnutz geht vor
Eigennutz).1
--- End Quote ---
Source :
1. The Vampire Economy: Doing Business Under Fascism by Guenter
Reimann Page 12
HTML https://books.google.co.id/books?redir_esc=y&hl=id&id=zpQJMaz-fTIC&q=28+february#v=snippet&q=28%20february&f=false
2. Killing History: The False Left-Right Political Spectrum and
the Battle between the 'Free Left' and the 'Statist Left' by
Mr. L.K. Samuels Page 396
--- Quote ---
> Gobbels saw it only as a conflict between the Party’s idealism
and the entrepreneurs’ greed for profit. This stirred his
social-revolutionary inclinations, which initially he could
reveal only in his diary. A lot remained to be done in Germany,
he wrote on 7 January 1942. Capitalism was not yet eliminated.
There were still ‘figures’ anxious to enrich themselves even in
wartime. The best thing would be to ‘execute them by
firing-squad’, but conditions were not yet ripe for that.
--- End Quote ---
Source :
Germany and the Second World War edited by the
Militärgeschichtliches Forschungsamt (Research Institute for
Military History), Potsdam, Germany Page 765
--- Quote ---
> In conversation in July 1942 he reminded his listeners that
the nation’s economic power had only been mobilized ‘with a
planned economy from above’; after the war ‘state control of the
economy’ would continue in order to prevent individual interests
trespassing on the fundamental interest of the nation. ... The
German economy under Hitler became, like Stalin’s, a command
economy
--- End Quote ---
Source :
1. The Nazi War Against Capitalism by Nevin Gussack, Page 79
2. The Dictators: Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia by Richard
Overy Ph.D. Page 404
HTML https://archive.org/details/dictators00rich/page/404/mode/2up?q=he+reminded+his+listeners+that+the+nation%E2%80%99s+economic+power+had+only+been+mobilized+%E2%80%98with+a+planned+economy+from+above%E2%80%99
--- Quote ---
> The New York Times, February 21, 1943
>
> NAZI MILITARY DEFEAT BRINGS 'TOTAL WAR' HOME
>
> German Upper and Middle Classes Fear Hitler Might Try to
Destroy Them
>
> By GEORGE AXELSSON By Telephone to The New York Times.
>
> The Junkers, the bourgeoisie and the small businessmen now
think that Hitler intends to sacrifice them on the altar of a
'total war effort,' in the Soviet style. They fear that this
operation will open the horizon of a permanent dictatorship of
the proletariat, also on the Stalinist model, in which these
classes will disappear without any visible chance of revival…
That Hitler might also want to save his war by transforming the
National Socialist State into a National Communist State at the
expense of the middle and upper classes seems to be the chief
worry in Berlin today.
--- End Quote ---
Source :
The New York Times: Sunday February 21, 1943. (2024). Retrieved
November 7, 2024, from Nytimes.com website:
HTML https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1943/02/21/88519072.html?pageNumber=76
--- Quote ---
> He [Hitler] voiced his radical regrets: that he had not
exterminated the German nobility, that he had come to power 'too
easily', not unleashing a classical revolution 'to destroy
elites and classes',' that he had supported Franco in Spain
instead of the Communists, that he had failed to put himself at
the head of a movement for the liberation of the colonial
peoples, 'especially the Arabs', that he had not freed the
working class from 'the bourgeoisie of fossils'. Above all he
regretted his leniency, his lack of the admirable ruthlessness
Stalin had so consistendy showed and which invited one's
'unreserved respect' for him. One of his last recorded remarks,
on 27 April 1945, three days before he killed himself (whether
by bullet or poison is disputed)
--- End Quote ---
Source :
Modern Times: The World from the Twenties to the Nineties by
Paul Johnson Page 413
HTML https://archive.org/details/moderntimesworld00john_1/mode/2up?q=to+destroy+elites+and+classes
--- Quote ---
> Contrary to his public propaganda statements, in a table talk
in early January 1942, Hitler said that “Stalin is regarded as a
man who intends to lead the Bolshevik idea to victory. In
reality, he is nothing but the embodiment of Russia, the
continuation of Tsarist Pan-Slavism! For Stalin, Bolshevism is
merely a tool to achieve his aims. It serves as a disguise
before the Germanic and Roman peoples.” [1]
>
> In another conversation, Hitler said that one must admire
Stalin because “he does not allow ‘the Jew’ to enter the world
of art.” [2] On 24 July 1942, in a table talk, he claimed that
“in Ribbentrop’s presence, Stalin did not hide the fact that he
was merely waiting for the moment when sufficient intellectual
maturity had developed in the USSR in order to put an end to the
Jews whom he still needed as a leadership stratum today.” [3]
--- End Quote ---
Sources:
1. Monologe im Führerhauptquartier 1941–1944 by Heinrich Heim,
p. 151. Excerpt:
Stalin steht da als der Mann, welcher der bolschewistischen Idee
zum Sieg zu verhelfen gedachte. In Wirklichkeit ist er nur
Rußland, die Fortsetzung des zaristischen Panslawismus! Der
Bolschewismus ist ihm ein Mittel zum Zweck: Vor den germanischen
und romanischen Völkern dient er als Tarnung.
2. Hitlers Tischgespräche im Führerhauptquartier by Henry
Picker, p. 133 (entry for 23 March 1942). Excerpt:
Er habe die verschiedenen Jahrgänge «Die Kunst» mit grossem
Interesse gelesen. Wenn man das noch 1910 vorhandene Kunstniveau
betrachte, müsse man mit Erschrecken feststellen, wie sehr es –
etwa 1930 als Gegenzahl – bergab gegangen sei. Der jüdische
Einfluss habe insoweit verheerend gewirkt. Man müsse das an
Stalin schätzen, dass er «den Juden» an die Kunst nicht
heranlasse.
3. Hitlers Tischgespräche im Führerhauptquartier by Henry
Picker, p. 457 (entry for 24 July 1942). Excerpt:
Auch Stalin habe Ribbentrop gegenüber keinen Hehl daraus
gemacht, dass er nur auf den Augenblick des Heranreifens
genügend eigener Intelligenz in der UdSSR warte, um mit dem
heute noch von ihm benötigten Judentum als Führungsschicht
Schluss zu machen.
4. Hitler’s National Socialism by Rainer Zitelmann, p. 547.
(Digital copy available at: Hitler’s National Socialism 2022)
--- Quote ---
> 1. The outstanding form of Fascism known as National
Socialism, and the Germany known as the Third Reich, controlled
by, and imbued with National Socialist thought in its more or
less official varieties, constitute a reality, spiritual and
historical, of supreme individuality and importance.
>
> 2. Absolute and conscious antagonism to Western Liberal
civilization is the central impulse of that intellectual and
political reality.
>
> 3. The National Socialist and affiliated doctrines are
fundamentally opposed to Liberal democracy, as well as to its
Christian foundations and to its Socialistic trends and
implications.
>
> 4. The anthropological and sociological concepts of National
Socialism form an organic whole with the German claim to
political expansion and hegemony.
>
> ...
>
> 7. National Socialism is at bottom incomparably more
anti-Western than Bolshevism.
--- End Quote ---
Source :
The War against the West by Aurel Kolnai Page 17 dan 18
HTML https://archive.org/details/TheWarAgainstTheWest/page/n17/mode/2up
--- Quote ---
> For me, the most difficult decision in this war was the order
to attack Russia. I have always believed that Germany must never
fight on two fronts, and no one should doubt that I studied and
reflected upon Napoleon’s experience in Russia more than anyone
else. So, why was there a war against Russia? Why did I choose
that path at the time?
>
> There was no longer any hope for us to end the war in the West
by attacking the British Isles. That country—led by fools—would
refuse to recognize our leadership and reject an honest peace
agreement as long as the powers within Europe that were
essentially hostile to the Reich remained undefeated. The war
would have to continue indefinitely; a war in which America was
becoming increasingly involved behind the scenes. The human and
material potential of the United States, its constant growth in
military technology and new weapons—both on the enemy’s side and
on ours—and the threatening proximity of the English coast—all
of this forced us to try to prevent a prolonged war by every
possible means. Time—always time!—would inevitably work against
us at an ever-increasing pace.
>
> The only way to force Britain to make peace was to destroy the
Red Army and thereby eliminate their hope of opposing us on the
continent with an equal adversary. We had no choice but to
remove the Russian factor from the balance of power in Europe.
There was a second reason of equal weight, which on its own
would have been sufficient to justify this action: the latent
danger posed by the existence of Bolshevism. An attack from that
direction was certain to occur one day.
>
> Our only chance to win a victory over Russia lay in
anticipating their assault; for a defensive war against the
Soviet Union was impossible for us. Under no circumstances could
we allow the Red Army to enjoy the advantage of our terrain—our
open ground suited for tank warfare, our highways ideal for the
movement of their armored units, and our railways suitable for
transporting their troops and materials. We could defeat the
Bolsheviks in their forests, swamps, and open steppes if we
acted in time—but we could never defeat them on terrain
favorable to traffic and maneuver, such as our own lands. To
wait for their attack would have meant opening the road for the
enemy to march into Europe.
>
> — Adolf Hitler, 15 February 1945
--- End Quote ---
Source :
Hitlers politisches Testament die Bormann Diktate vom Februar
und April 1945 Page 28
#Post#: 31564--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: December 5, 2025, 9:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"The historical figure you mentioned did not carry out
the socialization of the means of production and land ownership"
--- End Quote ---
Stop changing the subject. I just proved that your claim that
Lenin was the first anti-racist in history is an obvious
lie.[/quote]
To overcome racism, each social group must be prevented from
defeating one another in production, consumption, and social
interaction. Obligating different groups to help each other and
behave ethically in social interactions will not be maximally
effective if community leaders do not socialize and reorganize
production activities and inter-group social relations. If
society continues to operate through competition under market
laws, there will inevitably be attitudes of domination and
belittlement directed at weaker groups—even when those weaker
groups behave ethically and obey the rules. These weaker yet
ethical and law-abiding groups do not deserve to be left behind
or judged as inferior.
Moreover, when market mechanisms govern society, the strong,
manipulative, and aggressive groups tend to gain advantages and
ease in economic activities and social interaction. Naturally,
people who tend to come from white racial groups, Asian racial
groups, Jewish communities, or those who succeed according to
Western cultural criteria become dominant, as they exhibit
aggressive tendencies in economic and social activities within a
community.
Therefore, enforcing authority through organized political
structures such as those led by Hitler and Stalin is presented
as a way to counter unethical conditions produced by a society
operating under market laws. With centralized leadership over
social life, groups that are sensitive, ethical, and oriented
toward mutual aid can be protected from groups that are
aggressive, highly intelligent, manipulative, and
psychopathic—those who easily become oppressive and gain power
when a community functions according to market laws and free,
voluntary social interaction. That is why I consider Lenin to be
the first person who truly and correctly fought against racism
--- Quote ---
>
HTML https://incarnateword.in/other-authors/georges-van-vrekhem/hitler-and-his-god-the-background-to-the-nazi-phenomenon/bolshevism-from-moses-to-lenin
--- End Quote ---
My answer :
--- Quote ---
> “Do these liberals, these accursed defenders of individualism,
feel no shame when they see the tears of mothers and wives, or
are these cold-blooded accountants simply unaware of them? Have
they become so inhuman that they are no longer capable of
feeling? It is understandable why Bolshevism so easily sweeps
aside such creatures. They are of no value to humanity, serving
only as a burden upon their Volk. Even bees cast out their
drones once they are no longer useful to the hive. The Bolshevik
procedure is therefore quite natural.” — Adolf Hitler
--- End Quote ---
Source :
Wagener, Hitler—Memoirs of a Confidant Page 16–17.
--- Quote ---
> It is not Germany that will become Bolshevist, but Bolshevism
that will become a kind of National Socialism. Moreover, there
is far more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from
it … The petty-bourgeois Social Democrats and the trade-union
bosses will never become National Socialists, but the Communists
will always be National Socialists.”
--- End Quote ---
Source: Adolf Hitler, as quoted in Hermann Rauschning, The Voice
of Destruction, G.P. Putnam’s Sons, New York (1940), p. 131.
--- Quote ---
> Goebbels saw the similarities between the Nazis and the
Communists as clearly as the differences, which he said could be
boiled down to nationalism rather than internationalism, a
'Jewish conspiracy'. 'In the end,' he wrote in his diary later
that year, 'it would be better for us to fall with Bolshevism
than to live in eternal slavery under capitalism.'? He took the
'Socialism' in National Socialism very seriously and felt great
sympathy for the Russian people and their struggle, stating that
Lenin understood them better than any previous tsar. In an open
letter to 'My Friends the Left', he listed many areas of
agreement with the Communists in their 'common struggle for
freedom' against the hated bourgeoisie. 'You and I,' he
concluded, 'we fight each other but we are not really enemies.
In doing so we divide our forces, and we shall never achieve our
goal. Perhaps the last extreme will bring us together. Perhaps.
--- End Quote ---
Source :
Goebbels' diary in The Devil's Disciples: Hitler's Inner Circle
by Anthony Read, (2004) p. 142. - Diary excerpts
HTML https://archive.org/details/devilsdisciplesh00read/page/142/mode/2up?q=eternal+slavery
--- Quote ---
> Until now research has not recognized that Hitler’s economic
convictions, most notably his conviction concerning the
superiority of a system of a planned over a free economy, were
decisively shaped by his impressions of the superiority of the
Soviet economic system. Hitler’s admiration for the Soviet
system is also confirmed in the notes of Wilhelm Scheidt, who,
as adjutant to Hitler’s ‘representative for military history’
Scherff and a member of the Führer Headquarters group, had close
contact with Hitler and sometimes even took part in the
‘briefings’. Scheidt writes that Hitler underwent a ‘conversion
to Bolshevism’. From Hitler’s remarks, he says, the following
reactions could be derived: ‘Firstly, Hitler was enough of a
materialist to be the first to recognize the enormous armament
achievements of the USSR in the context of her strong, generous
and all- encompassing economic organization.’
--- End Quote ---
Source :
Hitler's National Socialism by Rainer Zitelmann Page 328 - 329
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"Of course, Taiwan will receive more influence from pop
culture than socialist countries such as Mainland China, for
example. Popular culture does not significantly determine
whether a nation becomes committed to ending oppression."
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_Taiwan
...
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_China[/quote]
The social and economic problems of society caused by market
forces must be resolved first before discussing issues of
gender. Therefore, support the states or communities that have
properly addressed social and economic problems first—rather
than prioritizing support for countries that are most successful
in defending LGBT groups. What is the point of defending
something while neglecting the fundamental issues of humanity,
namely the widespread competition and violence between groups
within a community
#Post#: 31566--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 6, 2025, 12:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"A competitive person will inevitably be evident from the
various opinions they express."
Competitive people are adept at hiding their competitiveness if
they need to do so to get where they want.
"And if they do not wish to appear as wanting such things, it
will still be noticeable through the various actions they
take—from the moment they begin engaging in activities to when
they attempt to enter an organization or community."
I have no doubt that an overconfident moron like you can be
easily fooled by even a semi-competent infiltrator.
"Products that sell in the marketplace under competitive market
laws tend to be made through complicated processes and require
machines for production efficiency and quality improvement. And
if they do not use expensive machines, they usually rely on the
exploitation of labor by employing workers for more than 8 hours
per day. They are also given work demands that always prioritize
increasing production quality without considering the limits of
workers’ diverse capacities. Yet these demands for higher
production quality exist only to win competition in order to
gain approval from consumers who constantly desire more
satisfying products. In reality, the previous products were
still perfectly suitable for consumption, even if they were not
highly satisfying to consumers, and the production process could
have been carried out with demands that were manageable for
workers of varying abilities—from those with minimal skills to
those with expert-level skills
The right way to address attitudes that prioritize efficiency
and material quality over workers’ well-being is to plan every
work activity and regulate the consumption patterns of
consumers, so that they develop the discipline to engage in
forms of consumption that ensure affordability for the workers
who produce those goods. They should also become accustomed to
consuming affordable products rather than expensive ones made
through labor processes that exclude the diverse range of
existing work abilities.
The cause of physical, psychological, and social oppression
toward vulnerable groups—those who are weak yet sensitive and
non-destructive—lies in the enforcement of competitive living by
leaders of a state or community. As a result, groups with high
cognitive ability, who always appear to have positive value, end
up dominating the nation’s finances, impoverishing and degrading
those who lose in competition. Yet those who lose in competition
are not always destructive or aggressive, and they still deserve
positive regard and support within the community.
In fact, historically, it is the groups that accumulate capital
and dominate markets that tend to cause major harm—such as
creating structural poverty, which brings hardship to large
segments of society."
You haven't answered my question. You are just talking to
yourself. Here is my question again:
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"It is not the consumers who make this judgment, for
they tend to choose what provides the greatest satisfaction
rather than what is most affordable and socially necessary"
--- End Quote ---
Then why does making a product more affordable consistently
increase its market share relative to similar products of
different brands?[/quote]
"Cruel violence against first-time perpetrators (e.g., the upper
classes, such as the bourgeoisie, landlords, the middle class,
and conservatives) is justified, considering that they
perpetrate systemic and structural violence against innocent
people. Moreover, most of the victims are poor, less fortunate,
and have sensitive personalities, even though these people do
not commit major damage and violence for the first time like the
upper class people I mentioned earlier."
You are still talking to yourself. Explain why Hitler planned to
give additional land to the upper class:
--- Quote ---
> The Hunger Plan outlined how entire urban populations of
conquered territories were to be starved to death,[k] thus
creating an agricultural surplus to feed Germany and urban space
for the German upper class.[97]
--- End Quote ---
if he was as anti-upper-class as you pretend he is?
"To overcome racism, each social group must be prevented from
defeating one another in production, consumption, and social
interaction."
This has nothing to do with racism.
"The social and economic problems of society caused by market
forces must be resolved first before discussing issues of
gender. Therefore, support the states or communities that have
properly addressed social and economic problems first—rather
than prioritizing support for countries that are most successful
in defending LGBT groups."
You are changing the subject again because you don't want to
acknowledge my example of the Counterculture having a positive
impact.
#Post#: 31567--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: December 6, 2025, 4:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"A competitive person will inevitably be evident from
the various opinions they express."
--- End Quote ---
Competitive people are adept at hiding their competitiveness if
they need to do so to get where they want.
--- Quote ---
> "And if they do not wish to appear as wanting such things, it
will still be noticeable through the various actions they
take—from the moment they begin engaging in activities to when
they attempt to enter an organization or community."
--- End Quote ---
I have no doubt that an overconfident moron like you can be
easily fooled by even a semi-competent infiltrator.[/quote]
Well, the solution to prevent competitively oriented groups from
operating in secrecy is to ensure that they remain clearly
visible within the state. Therefore, the establishment of
designated, specialized spaces for them is the appropriate means
to achieve this.
--- Quote ---
> Then why does making a product more affordable consistently
increase its market share relative to similar products of
different brands?
--- End Quote ---
Affordable products tend to increase market share within a
system governed by market laws, because they can be consumed by
low-income populations, who typically constitute the majority in
countries around the world today. However, consumption practices
within a market-based framework tend to disregard the welfare
and basic needs of workers at production sites. Affordable
products generated under market conditions usually exist because
of excessive quantitative production, allowing those production
units that achieve such scale to sell at lower prices, compete
for market share, and ultimately defeat other producers who are
less efficient in terms of productivity. However, such gains in
market share are achieved by exploiting workers through daily
overtime and by driving other production sites into
bankruptcy—even when those bankrupt producers were still
offering goods that were usable by the consumers. Therefore,
state control over labor and consumption is necessary to ensure
affordability without forcing different parties to sacrifice one
another.
"Cruel violence against first-time perpetrators (e.g., the upper
classes, such as the bourgeoisie, landlords, the middle class,
and conservatives) is justified, considering that they
perpetrate systemic and structural violence against innocent
people. Moreover, most of the victims are poor, less fortunate,
and have sensitive personalities, even though these people do
not commit major damage and violence for the first time like the
upper class people I mentioned earlier."
--- Quote ---
> You are still talking to yourself. Explain why Hitler planned
to give additional land to the upper class:
>
> [quote]The Hunger Plan outlined how entire urban populations
of conquered territories were to be starved to death,[k] thus
creating an agricultural surplus to feed Germany and urban space
for the German upper class.[97]
--- End Quote ---
if he was as anti-upper-class as you pretend he is?[/quote]
--- Quote ---
> "Furthermore, after the war, the National Socialist German
state, which has pursued this goal from the outset, will work
tirelessly to realize a program that will ultimately lead to the
complete elimination of class distinctions and the creation of a
truly socialist society." - Adolf Hitler's Speech for the
Heroes' Memorial Day (1943)
--- End Quote ---
Source:
Adolf Hitler's Speech for the Heroes' Memorial Day (March 21,
1943). (2015, October 30). In Wikisource. Retrieved 08:42,
October 4, 2024, from
HTML https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Adolf_Hitler%27s_Speech_for_the_Heroes%27_Memorial_Day_(March<br
/>21, 1943)&oldid=5923919
--- Quote ---
> Herr Goebbels ended it in his May Day radio address this year,
with his flat assertion that the anti-capitalist offensive "will
be resumed on the first day of peace!"
>
> The people in the democracies would do well not to mistake the
Nazis' anti-capitalism for mere hostility to big business. It is
more than a war against free enterprise. It is a war against the
democratic way of life. Capitalism, in the Nazi mind, means the
free way, the individual's way. The Nazis are out to smash it.
And they have gone a long way toward doing just that in Europe.
Their special victim is the middle class. On the continent they
have all but liquidated this class which the backbone of the
democratic world.
--- End Quote ---
Source :
1. The Nazi War Against Capitalism by Nevin Gussack, page 79
2. The American Mercury 1944-08: Vol 59 Iss 248. “German Plans
for the Next War” Page 181 (Page 55 in pdf format)
--- Quote ---
> achieve a truly socialist division of personal assets, Hitler
implemented a variety of interventionist economic policies,
including price and rent controls, exorbitant corporate taxes,
frequent “polemics against landlords,” subsidies to German
farmers as protection “against the vagaries of weather and the
world market,” and harsh taxes on capital gains, which Hitler
himself had denounced as “effortless income
--- End Quote ---
Source :
Moynihan, Michael. (2007). Hitler's Handouts Inside the Nazis'
welfare state. Accessed on 9th April 2025, from
HTML https://reason.com/2007/08/15/hitlers-handouts/
--- Quote ---
> According to economist Dietrich Orlow, such persecution
against the business community was prevalent as the Nazi party
repeatedly poured “propagandistic venom on the capitalists and
decadent bourgeoisie.
--- End Quote ---
Source :
1. The History of the Nazi Party by Dietrich Orlow Page 87
HTML https://archive.org/details/historyofnazipar0000orlo/page/86/mode/2up?q=propagandistic+venom
2. Killing History: The False Left-Right Political Spectrum and
the Battle between the 'Free Left' and the 'Statist Left' by
L.K. Samuels Page 417
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"To overcome racism, each social group must be
prevented from defeating one another in production, consumption,
and social interaction."
--- End Quote ---
This has nothing to do with racism.[/quote]
Racism is caused by competitive behavior among racial groups; to
put an end to racism, you must prevent groups from competing
against one another.
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"The social and economic problems of society caused by
market forces must be resolved first before discussing issues of
gender. Therefore, support the states or communities that have
properly addressed social and economic problems first—rather
than prioritizing support for countries that are most successful
in defending LGBT groups."
--- End Quote ---
You are changing the subject again because you don't want to
acknowledge my example of the Counterculture having a positive
impact.[/quote]
I acknowledge that the ‘Counterculture’ movement had a positive
impact on the development of human empathy. However, those who
drove that movement must recognize that its failure stemmed from
its unwillingness to challenge the modes of production and
patterns of social interaction grounded in market laws and
so-called civil society values—that is, democratic ways of life.
By leaving the economic foundations of competition and
market-based social relations untouched, the movement was
ultimately unable to address the structural roots of oppression
#Post#: 31568--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
DIR By: SodaPop
Date: December 6, 2025, 4:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"Racism is caused by competitive behavior among racial groups;
to put an end to racism, you must prevent groups from competing
against one another."
Africans were not competing with "whites" when they were
labelled as "black" by them and subsequently sold into slavery.
#Post#: 31572--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 6, 2025, 8:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"Well, the solution to prevent competitively oriented groups
from operating in secrecy is to ensure that they remain clearly
visible within the state."
This is what I have advocated the whole time.
"Therefore, the establishment of designated, specialized spaces
for them is the appropriate means to achieve this."
How do you designate specialized spaces for competitive people
before you know who the competitive people are, you moron?
"Affordable products tend to increase market share within a
system governed by market laws, because they can be consumed by
low-income populations, who typically constitute the majority in
countries around the world today."
Exactly. Therefore your earlier claim:
--- Quote ---
> they tend to choose what provides the greatest satisfaction
rather than what is most affordable
--- End Quote ---
is a lie.
I also agree with Sodapop's response to your point about racism:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/msg31568/#msg31568
The rest of your post is you talking to yourself.
#Post#: 31589--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: December 8, 2025, 1:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> "Affordable products tend to increase market share within a
system governed by market laws, because they can be consumed by
low-income populations, who typically constitute the majority in
countries around the world today."
>
> Exactly. Therefore your earlier claim:
>
> [quote]they tend to choose what provides the greatest
satisfaction rather than what is most affordable
--- End Quote ---
is a lie.[/quote]
Affordable products produced under market-based conditions tend
to generate the exploitation of labor, while also encouraging
capital accumulation and the destruction of economic stability
among fellow citizens. Those groups of citizens who lose out in
competition come to feel excluded from the nation and fall into
poverty. Meanwhile, groups that succeed in work and efficiently
dominate business markets secure their livelihoods by oppressing
those they impoverish and weaken. Yet those who are impoverished
and weakened do not deserve such conditions. Not all of them are
aggressive, insensitive, or destructive toward the state.
Remember :
Affordable products generated under market conditions usually
exist because of excessive quantitative production, allowing
those production units that achieve such scale to sell at lower
prices, compete for market share, and ultimately defeat other
producers who are less efficient in terms of productivity.
However, such gains in market share are achieved by exploiting
workers through daily overtime and by driving other production
sites into bankruptcy—even when those bankrupt producers were
still offering goods that were usable by the consumers.
Therefore, state control over labor and consumption is necessary
to ensure affordability without forcing different parties to
sacrifice one another.
--- Quote ---
> Many members of the bourgeoisie condemn the workers’ struggle
to improve their economic conditions with an anger that is as
irrational as it is unjust. They might think very differently
if, for even three weeks, they had to carry the burden of labor
borne by others. Even today, there are still many bourgeois
elements who angrily reject the demand for an additional ten
marks per month in wages—especially when such a demand is firmly
asserted—as a ‘Marxist crime.’ Yet they display complete
incomprehension when confronted with the demand that the
excessive profits of certain individuals should also be
restricted.”
--- End Quote ---
— Adolf Hitler, 1 November 1930
Source :
1. IB (Illustrierter Beobachter), Set year-5, edition 44, 1th
November 1930, Pp. 765
2. Hitler’s National Socialism by Rainer Zitelmann Page 206
HTML https://ia801207.us.archive.org/13/items/adolf-hitler-archive/Hitler%27s%20National%20Socialism%202022.pdf
--- Quote ---
> “…an industrialist also acts against the spirit of the
people’s community if he employs inhumane methods of
exploitation and abuses the nation’s labor to unfairly amass
millions of dollars from the sweat of the workers. He has no
right to call himself ‘national’ and no right to speak of the
people’s community, for he is merely an immoral egoist who sows
the seeds of social discontent and provokes a spirit of conflict
that sooner or later will harm the interests of the state.” –
Adolf Hitler
--- End Quote ---
Source :
1. The Nazi War Against Capitalism by Nevin Gussack Page 12
2. Mein Kampf by Hitler, Adolf, 1889-1945 Page 216
HTML https://archive.org/details/meinkampf0000hitl/page/216/mode/2up?q=A+worker+certainly+does+something+which+is+contrary+to+the+spirit+of+folk-community
--- Quote ---
> According to the logic of the free market and the so-called
natural law of competition, Hitler argued that in many cases one
cannot expect individuals to act in the interest of the common
good. For example,
>
> one cannot expect a person who happens to produce nitrogen to
say, “I think it would be wiser now to sell it at a price 20
percent lower.” No—we cannot demand that of him. Such an action
can only be recognized as necessary from a higher standpoint,
and then one must say, “This must be done.” But we cannot expect
the individual himself to make such a decision.
>
> Or, for instance, if I demand that another person agree that
we in Germany should produce our own fuel, while that person
earns his livelihood from fuel trading—well, one cannot expect
him to say, “I think it is a splendid idea that you will produce
your own fuel.”
>
> The same applies to international rubber buyers or rubber
merchants who are then asked to decide whether Germany should
build Buna synthetic rubber plants. He will certainly say, “I
think that is madness—completely impossible.”
>
> In all such cases, there is a clear contradiction between
capitalist private interests and the general political interests
defined by the state. According to Hitler’s view, the state
always has both the right and the duty to enforce the general
political interest over capitalist private interests.
--- End Quote ---
Source :
Hitler: The Policies of Seduction by Rainer Zitelmann Page 215
HTML https://archive.org/details/hitlerpoliciesof0000zite/mode/2up?q=expect+a+man+who+happens+to+produce
--- Quote ---
> I also agree with Sodapop's response to your point about
racism:
>
>
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-national-socialists-were-socialists-3223/msg31568/#msg31568
>
> The rest of your post is you talking to yourself.
--- End Quote ---
As long as competitive conditions are not dismantled within
society, patterns of racial domination will inevitably emerge,
in which groups that succeed in accumulating power impose
themselves upon weaker and oppressed groups. That's why the
white race is the worst at understanding morals and
civilization. Because they've been lulled by their own power and
intelligence. From this perspective, the solution to such social
brutality lay in enforcing socialism and abolishing market laws
within public life.
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"Racism is caused by competitive behavior among racial
groups; to put an end to racism, you must prevent groups from
competing against one another."
--- End Quote ---
Africans were not competing with "whites" when they were
labelled as "black" by them and subsequently sold into
slavery.[/quote]
African people were enslaved and colonized by the white race
because white people were accustomed to competing with each
other which led to an attitude of viewing other races as
competitors.
#Post#: 31592--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
DIR By: SodaPop
Date: December 8, 2025, 3:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> African people were enslaved and colonized by the white race
because white people were accustomed to competing with each
other which led to an attitude of viewing other races as
competitors.
--- End Quote ---
Free labor so "whites" didn't have to work had nothing to do
with it? Not much competition going on if no one that is counted
as a citizen has to work in a given society, no?
--- Quote ---
> Yet they display complete incomprehension when confronted with
the demand that the excessive profits of certain individuals
should also be restricted.
--- End Quote ---
Would a wealth cap not restrict excessive profits ending up in
the hands of certain individuals? Have we not advocated for this
here?
I'm failing to see your actual point here I think?
#Post#: 31594--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 8, 2025, 11:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"Affordable products produced under market-based conditions tend
to generate the exploitation of labor"
Stop changing the subject. Just admit you were lying when you
claimed:
--- Quote ---
> they tend to choose what provides the greatest satisfaction
rather than what is most affordable
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 31597--------------------------------------------------
Re: National Socialists were socialists
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: December 9, 2025, 1:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@SodaPop
--- Quote ---
> [quote]African people were enslaved and colonized by the white
race because white people were accustomed to competing with each
other which led to an attitude of viewing other races as
competitors.
--- End Quote ---
Free labor so "whites" didn't have to work had nothing to do
with it? Not much competition going on if no one that is counted
as a citizen has to work in a given society, no?[/quote]
The white race won competition in that era by preventing those
they defeated from gaining the power to resist. Slavery was one
of the methods used to achieve this. Persistently preventing a
group or an individual from rising up is itself a form of
competition
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Yet they display complete incomprehension when
confronted with the demand that the excessive profits of certain
individuals should also be restricted.
--- End Quote ---
Would a wealth cap not restrict excessive profits ending up in
the hands of certain individuals? Have we not advocated for this
here?
I'm failing to see your actual point here I think?[/quote]
What must be addressed is not only excessive wealth, but also
working hours and the degree to which labor capacity is imposed
upon workers, so that they are freed from exploitation.
Capitalists and landowners must also be subjected to severe
penalties for their depraved conduct in exploiting workers and
imposing excessive work schedules.
--- Quote ---
> “A Berlin court fined the daughter of a factory owner because
she had ‘maliciously injured the sense of honor’ of the
‘followers’ at her father’s factory. (Note the use of the word
‘followers’ instead of ‘workers.’) The girl had referred to them
as ‘dirty workers.’ A wholesale newspaper dealer in Berlin lost
control of his business; it appears that he had repeatedly paid
wages and salaries below the officially fixed rates, had grossly
insulted his workers and employees, and had forced minors to
work fifty-nine hours a week without overtime pay.
>
> From my own experience, I encountered cases consistent with
this process of leveling—such as the case of a small factory
owner who told me how he had been required to attend a
Schulungslager (social education camp), where his roommate was
one of his own ‘followers.’”**
> (April 1939)
--- End Quote ---
Source:
Hanighen, Frank. “Brown Bolshevism.” The Atlantic, April 1939,
p. 479.
--- Quote ---
> Judaism began launching systematic efforts to undermine our
nation from within, and in this endeavor it found its best
allies among obstinate bourgeois citizens who refused to
recognize that the era of the bourgeois world had come to an end
and would never return—that the age of unrestrained economic
liberalism was obsolete and could only lead to its own
destruction.”
>
> — Adolf Hitler, 30 January 1945
>
> Statements made by Hitler between 1935 and 1945, particularly
from the early 1940s onward, indicate that he had become a harsh
critic of the free-market economic system and an increasingly
firm advocate of a state-controlled, centrally planned economy.
--- End Quote ---
Source :
1. Zitelmann, R. (2022). The role of anti-capitalism in Hitler's
world view. Economic Affairs, 42(3), 515–527.
HTML https://doi.org/10.1111/ecaf.12551
(Page 523 - 524)
2. Domarus, M. (1973). Hitler: Reden und Proklamationen
1932–1945: Kommentiert von einem deutschen Zeitgenossen (Vol.
2). R. Löwit. Page 2196
If you support bourgeoisie, you're support Judaism
@90sRetroFan
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"Affordable products produced under market-based
conditions tend to generate the exploitation of labor"
--- End Quote ---
Stop changing the subject. Just admit you were lying when you
claimed:
they tend to choose what provides the greatest satisfaction
rather than what is most affordable[/quote]
I am merely explaining that affordable products for consumers
can put an end to exploitation only if they are accompanied by
production work plans that are themselves humane, accessible,
and free from compulsory overtime for workers. And the only way
to achieve this is by abolishing the application of
market-mechanism principles in the public sphere. I am not
misrepresenting anything; I am presenting the argument in a more
complete and systematic way. What should instead be questioned
is how you can claim to be a socialist while so rarely
addressing labor exploitation and the continued operation of
market mechanisms. The application of market mechanisms will
continue to generate labor exploitation even when production
results in affordable goods. This is because consumer
affordability under market conditions is achieved through
competition and through work plans that tend toward
overproduction, so that one enterprise can keep its products
cheaper than those of other enterprises attempting to compete
*****************************************************
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