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#Post#: 2597--------------------------------------------------
Do Aryans all descend from 1 root race, or is there possibility
of convergent evolution?
DIR By: guest27
Date: December 1, 2020, 2:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I wonder this because if convergent evolution is possible, then
Aryan character could be due to unique 'locally coadapted gene
complexes', which would therefore be prone to loss of genetic
cooperation upon their "shuffling" with other distinct gene
complexes, resulting in loss of the trait itself. If you
understand this great, if you don't I can probably elucidate.
But the implication of this would be an inherent danger in
inter-ethnic or inter-caste reproduction to the continuity of
each's own harmonious Aryan genetics. This is a form of
outbreeding depression, which is just as valid a concept as
inbreeding depression, and I'm pretty sure we can appreciate the
likely deleterious effect of incest on Aryan genetics.
It's horrible to have this concern, so I prefer to think of
Aryan character as something inherent to us as humans (or, more
broadly, as animals), and not something that merely cropped up
during our divergent ethnic/caste evolution. If this were the
case, there'd be no real concern of "shuffling" different Aryan
genetics; because they're all essentially the same.
#Post#: 2598--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do Aryans all descend from 1 root race, or is there
possibility of convergent evolution?
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 1, 2020, 3:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"Do Aryans all descend from 1 root race, or is there possibility
of convergent evolution?"
Convergent evolution due to similar selective pressures is the
meaning of root race. See the motto of our Human Evolution
board.
"if convergent evolution is possible, then Aryan character could
be due to unique 'locally coadapted gene complexes', which would
therefore be prone to loss of genetic cooperation upon their
"shuffling" with other distinct gene complexes, resulting in
loss of the trait itself."
But this assumes that the Aryan gene complex has not already
been shuffled with non-Aryan gene complexes, which in reality it
has (at the latest by the end of the Neolithic era), with the
trait already having been lost from consistent heritability
(which is why almost all of us here (as far as I know) do not
have Aryan parents or siblings, and often quite the contrary).
We are here to try to the recover the trait.
"I prefer to think of Aryan character as something inherent to
us as humans (or, more broadly, as animals), and not something
that merely cropped up during our divergent ethnic/caste
evolution."
We currently believe that Aryan character is related to
sufficiently retained Original Nobility. All newborn children
begin noble; it is merely a question of how fast we lose it.
This however does not imply that divergent evolution is
irrelevant, because:
1) ability to retain Original Nobility is believed to be
correlated with neoteny;
2) neoteny is at least partially genetic;
3) some lifestyles exert more selective pressures than others
against genes that cause neoteny
If you are saying that you want to focus on recovery of Original
Nobility through effort, that is fine. But a non-Aryan will
require more effort to recover the same level of Original
Nobility as an Aryan. And non-Aryans who successfully recover
their Original Nobility through great effort will produce
offspring who will themselves require the same great amount of
effort to recover their Original Nobility, in other words no
lasting improvement has occurred between generations. The point
of Aryanization is to establish a gene pool whose individuals
can recover their Original Nobility with minimal effort.
#Post#: 2610--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do Aryans all descend from 1 root race, or is there
possibility of convergent evolution?
DIR By: guest27
Date: December 2, 2020, 12:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 90sRetroFan link ---
>
> "Do Aryans all descend from 1 root race, or is there
possibility of convergent evolution?"
>
> Convergent evolution due to similar selective pressures is the
meaning of root race. See the motto of our Human Evolution
board.
>
> "if convergent evolution is possible, then Aryan character
could be due to unique 'locally coadapted gene complexes', which
would therefore be prone to loss of genetic cooperation upon
their "shuffling" with other distinct gene complexes, resulting
in loss of the trait itself."
>
> But this assumes that the Aryan gene complex has not already
been shuffled with non-Aryan gene complexes, which in reality it
has (at the latest by the end of the Neolithic era), with the
trait already having been lost from consistent heritability
(which is why almost all of us here (as far as I know) do not
have Aryan parents or siblings, and often quite the contrary).
We are here to try to the recover the trait.
>
> "I prefer to think of Aryan character as something inherent to
us as humans (or, more broadly, as animals), and not something
that merely cropped up during our divergent ethnic/caste
evolution."
>
> We currently believe that Aryan character is related to
sufficiently retained Original Nobility. All newborn children
begin noble; it is merely a question of how fast we lose it.
This however does not imply that divergent evolution is
irrelevant, because:
>
> 1) ability to retain Original Nobility is believed to be
correlated with neoteny;
> 2) neoteny is at least partially genetic;
> 3) some lifestyles exert more selective pressures than others
against genes that cause neoteny
>
> If you are saying that you want to focus on recovery of
Original Nobility through effort, that is fine. But a non-Aryan
will require more effort to recover the same level of Original
Nobility as an Aryan. And non-Aryans who successfully recover
their Original Nobility through great effort will produce
offspring who will themselves require the same great amount of
effort to recover their Original Nobility, in other words no
lasting improvement has occurred between generations. The point
of Aryanization is to establish a gene pool whose individuals
can recover their Original Nobility with minimal effort.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for the response!
Yet it's not a case of recovering a specific lost set of genes,
is it? Any neotenous/Aryan genotype should do, the important
thing is the result: retention of Original Nobility. But then
it'd be subject to variation across individuals and groups,
meaning two heritably Aryan individuals are liable to have
incompatible genotypes, a risk which grows the more dissimilar
and distant their genetic backgrounds are to each other.
Heritability isn't based on parents sharing the same heritable
phenotype, but the compatibility of their underlying genotypes
-- something we can't see, but can make conjectures about. The
fact Aryan gene pools have already been shuffled with non-Aryan
gene pools doesn't make a non-issue of further shuffling, this
time between disparate Aryan genotypes.
This wouldn't be an issue if Aryan genotypes (not merely
phenotypes) were equivalent across ethnicities, which would
suggest common ancestry, not convergent evolution. Race means
quality, not ethnicity; but quality alone doesn't make a race
(unless you use the word in a purely spiritual sense, like
'folk' if I remember your definitions correctly). You can have a
phenotypic race comprised of various ethnicities, or even
species, (I gather this is what's typically meant by 'Aryan
race'), but "root race" suggests common inheritance.
#Post#: 2613--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do Aryans all descend from 1 root race, or is there
possibility of convergent evolution?
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 2, 2020, 4:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"The fact Aryan gene pools have already been shuffled with
non-Aryan gene pools doesn't make a non-issue of further
shuffling, this time between disparate Aryan genotypes."
The DNA strand is a fixed length. Let us represent it with
playing cards, with A representing the Aryan mutation, mixed
with non-Aryan blood 2-K. Suits represent ethnicity.
Let's say you are playing with spades, so you have 13 cards
containing one A. I am playing with hearts, same thing. But if
we combine our decks and then pick a new deck of 13 at random
from the 26, the possibilities are:
a) the new deck contains both As;
b) the new deck contains one A;
c) the new deck contains no As.
We want a), but you are worried about c) happening instead.
However, you are ignoring the role of state control over
reproduction, which is the power to simply discard all the b)
and c) decks while keeping the a) decks.
#Post#: 2626--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do Aryans all descend from 1 root race, or is there
possibility of convergent evolution?
DIR By: guest27
Date: December 3, 2020, 11:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: 90sRetroFan link ---
>
> "The fact Aryan gene pools have already been shuffled with
non-Aryan gene pools doesn't make a non-issue of further
shuffling, this time between disparate Aryan genotypes."
>
> The DNA strand is a fixed length. Let us represent it with
playing cards, with A representing the Aryan mutation, mixed
with non-Aryan blood 2-K. Suits represent ethnicity.
>
> Let's say you are playing with spades, so you have 13 cards
containing one A. I am playing with hearts, same thing. But if
we combine our decks and then pick a new deck of 13 at random
from the 26, the possibilities are:
>
> a) the new deck contains both As;
> b) the new deck contains one A;
> c) the new deck contains no As.
>
> We want a), but you are worried about c) happening instead.
However, you are ignoring the role of state control over
reproduction, which is the power to simply discard all the b)
and c) decks while keeping the a) decks.
>
--- End Quote ---
I like your metaphor very much, I'll use it to better describe
the issue.
The nature of the game is important: Our deck needs to be
structured in a certain way in order to be playable. It's more
like Yu-Gi-Oh, really. You might draw an A card, but you can't
play it, or it's not as efficacious, unless you also have some
other card. And of course the weird thing is we have to shuffle
our decks with each other before every game.
Spades and hearts decks are not only different, but carefully
balanced in the context of their respective suit. A of spades
might only work in a spades deck, not in a hearts or a mixed
spades/hearts deck.
Were all our A's of the same suit (suggesting they predate
ethnic divergence), 'shuffling suits' would pose less danger.
Come to think of it, it'd still be a little dangerous since
you're still radically restructuring the deck. Soo my real
concern is: We're not racist, but genes probably are. Is it
possible to totally ignore ethnicity in our Aryanization effort,
or must be beware of outbreeding depression? Maybe the risk is
compensated for by some sort of hybrid vigour, maybe reversing
ethnic divergence de-adulterates the genome or something?
#Post#: 2627--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do Aryans all descend from 1 root race, or is there
possibility of convergent evolution?
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 3, 2020, 1:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"A of spades might only work in a spades deck, not in a hearts
or a mixed spades/hearts deck."
Might. So why not try it out and find out?
"Is it possible to totally ignore ethnicity in our Aryanization
effort, or must be beware of outbreeding depression?"
We would not ignore ethnicity. Under state control over
reproduction, we would keep records of the genetic background of
the parents of every individual bred. In whatever way ethnicity
may be consequential, we would quickly learn about it by
studying patterns that emerge.
As for bewaring, again we can simply prohibit from further
reproduction any individuals who lack the heritable traits we
are seeking.
By the way, controlled outbreeding by farmers has consistently
succeeded in collecting wanted traits in other species:
[img]
HTML https://preview.redd.it/kqnx3qjlo2141.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=5cc0897af372484b92fe37defdfce1719bc43f9c[/img]
#Post#: 2631--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do Aryans all descend from 1 root race, or is there
possibility of convergent evolution?
DIR By: Cthens
Date: December 3, 2020, 8:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Emily link ---
>
> [quote author=90sRetroFan link=topic=320.msg2613#msg2613
date=1606947802]
> "The fact Aryan gene pools have already been shuffled with
non-Aryan gene pools doesn't make a non-issue of further
shuffling, this time between disparate Aryan genotypes."
>
> The DNA strand is a fixed length. Let us represent it with
playing cards, with A representing the Aryan mutation, mixed
with non-Aryan blood 2-K. Suits represent ethnicity.
>
> Let's say you are playing with spades, so you have 13 cards
containing one A. I am playing with hearts, same thing. But if
we combine our decks and then pick a new deck of 13 at random
from the 26, the possibilities are:
>
> a) the new deck contains both As;
> b) the new deck contains one A;
> c) the new deck contains no As.
>
> We want a), but you are worried about c) happening instead.
However, you are ignoring the role of state control over
reproduction, which is the power to simply discard all the b)
and c) decks while keeping the a) decks.
>
--- End Quote ---
I like your metaphor very much, I'll use it to better describe
the issue.
The nature of the game is important: Our deck needs to be
structured in a certain way in order to be playable. It's more
like Yu-Gi-Oh, really. You might draw an A card, but you can't
play it, or it's not as efficacious, unless you also have some
other card. And of course the weird thing is we have to shuffle
our decks with each other before every game.
Spades and hearts decks are not only different, but carefully
balanced in the context of their respective suit. A of spades
might only work in a spades deck, not in a hearts or a mixed
spades/hearts deck.
Were all our A's of the same suit (suggesting they predate
ethnic divergence), 'shuffling suits' would pose less danger.
Come to think of it, it'd still be a little dangerous since
you're still radically restructuring the deck. Soo my real
concern is: We're not racist, but genes probably are. Is it
possible to totally ignore ethnicity in our Aryanization effort,
or must be beware of outbreeding depression? Maybe the risk is
compensated for by some sort of hybrid vigour, maybe reversing
ethnic divergence de-adulterates the genome or something?
[/quote]
If I'm understanding you correctly, Emily, are you suggesting
that we Aryanize genetically by finding Aryan traits and
verifiable genes that are Aryan typical or Aryan ideal from
everyone regardless of ethnicity? Because I believe that is
discussed in depth at
HTML https://aryan-anthropology.blogspot.com/?m=1
And I believe it is agreeing with you.
#Post#: 2649--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do Aryans all descend from 1 root race, or is there
possibility of convergent evolution?
DIR By: guest27
Date: December 4, 2020, 7:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> We would not ignore ethnicity. Under state control over
reproduction, we would keep records of the genetic background of
the parents of every individual bred. In whatever way ethnicity
may be consequential, we would quickly learn about it by
studying patterns that emerge.
--- End Quote ---
There seems to be a lot of unknown, so trial and error can be a
reasonable approach. I'm quite satisfied to hear we'll take note
of patterns in regards to ethnicity/genetic background.
'Controlled' outbreeding is the key.
--- Quote ---
> If I'm understanding you correctly, Emily, are you suggesting
that we Aryanize genetically by finding Aryan traits and
verifiable genes that are Aryan typical or Aryan ideal from
everyone regardless of ethnicity?
--- End Quote ---
'Typical' is the important word here because my concern is that
different populations, even if they're equally genetically Aryan
with the same Aryan phenotype, might still have their own unique
codependent set of Aryan genes. Like, you can breed a lion with
a tiger, they might each be perfectly beautiful specimens, but
they lack genetic compatibility, which in ligers results in a
condition called growth dysplasia. In a mixed ethnicity
individual there might be a more subtle 'bug', but when it comes
to character I imagine subtle bugs can be devastating.
But I'm inclined to think over the course of hominid evolution,
Aryan genetics were lost more than they were acquired, since
it's a story of us leaving our largely herbivorous lives in the
jungle, to hunt and scavenge and branch into different
ethnicties and cultures who'd war very brutally and intently.
Our gender roles also diverged greatly during this phase. I
doubt there was any noteworthy increase in empathy or idealism,
quite the opposite, despite developing larger prefrontal
cortexes, more gracile bodies and longer childhoods. Agriculture
is what allowed Aryan character to shine, but there's no reason
to think Aryans have surpassed the infancy of hominid evolution
in sheer terms of character. For that reason I suspect our most
fundamental Aryan genetics were more soiled than developed
during ethnic evolution, and interethnic breeding could serve to
cleanse the genome.
#Post#: 2728--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do Aryans all descend from 1 root race, or is there
possibility of convergent evolution?
DIR By: Cthens
Date: December 7, 2020, 5:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Emily link ---
>
> [quote]We would not ignore ethnicity. Under state control over
reproduction, we would keep records of the genetic background of
the parents of every individual bred. In whatever way ethnicity
may be consequential, we would quickly learn about it by
studying patterns that emerge.
--- End Quote ---
There seems to be a lot of unknown, so trial and error can be a
reasonable approach. I'm quite satisfied to hear we'll take note
of patterns in regards to ethnicity/genetic background.
'Controlled' outbreeding is the key.
--- Quote ---
> If I'm understanding you correctly, Emily, are you suggesting
that we Aryanize genetically by finding Aryan traits and
verifiable genes that are Aryan typical or Aryan ideal from
everyone regardless of ethnicity?
--- End Quote ---
'Typical' is the important word here because my concern is that
different populations, even if they're equally genetically Aryan
with the same Aryan phenotype, might still have their own unique
codependent set of Aryan genes. Like, you can breed a lion with
a tiger, they might each be perfectly beautiful specimens, but
they lack genetic compatibility, which in ligers results in a
condition called growth dysplasia. In a mixed ethnicity
individual there might be a more subtle 'bug', but when it comes
to character I imagine subtle bugs can be devastating.
But I'm inclined to think over the course of hominid evolution,
Aryan genetics were lost more than they were acquired, since
it's a story of us leaving our largely herbivorous lives in the
jungle, to hunt and scavenge and branch into different
ethnicties and cultures who'd war very brutally and intently.
Our gender roles also diverged greatly during this phase. I
doubt there was any noteworthy increase in empathy or idealism,
quite the opposite, despite developing larger prefrontal
cortexes, more gracile bodies and longer childhoods. Agriculture
is what allowed Aryan character to shine, but there's no reason
to think Aryans have surpassed the infancy of hominid evolution
in sheer terms of character. For that reason I suspect our most
fundamental Aryan genetics were more soiled than developed
during ethnic evolution, and interethnic breeding could serve to
cleanse the genome.
[/quote]
This is an interesting concept whether the state adopts it or
not. I'd like to explore it more. The other responses to you
seemed just as effective though, and if not it would adapt like
they said.
#Post#: 3680--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do Aryans all descend from 1 root race, or is there
possibility of convergent evolution?
DIR By: guest27
Date: January 26, 2021, 9:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I've recently learned that the human brain likely evolved
through eating cooked starches, not animals, in which case maybe
human evolution isn't fundamentally defined by a deeper descent
into violence. Maybe agriculture wasn't necessary to be vegan
but only made things easier for vegans.
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