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#Post#: 2140--------------------------------------------------
Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
By: 90sRetroFan Date: November 11, 2020, 10:31 pm
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OLD CONTENT
phys.org/news/2020-05-ancient-dna-unveils-important-piece.html
[quote]Newly released genomes from Neolithic East Asia have
unveiled a missing piece of human prehistory, according to a
study conducted by Prof. Fu Qiaomei's team from the Institute of
Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology (IVPP) of the
Chinese Academy of Sciences.
...
The scientists also found that Early Neolithic East Asians were
more genetically differentiated from each other than present-day
East Asians are. In early Neolithic East Asia since 9,500 BP, a
northern ancestry existed along the Yellow River and up into the
eastern steppes of Siberia, distinct from a southern ancestry
that existed along the coast of the southern Chinese mainland
and islands in the Taiwan Strait since 8,400 BP.[/quote]
I told you Huangdi was:
1) not Shennongshi
2) Turanian
[quote]Population movement may have already started impacting
East Asians by the Late Neolithic. For example, the Late
Neolithic southern East Asians may have shared a connection to
coastal northern East Asians and the former's ancestry may have
extended north as well.[/quote]
Yes, because while most of the best arable land in China is in
the south, there is also some in the northeast, so Aryan
diffusion to the northeast via a sea route would have been
sensible:
HTML https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Iro-RuFyUi0/VTRKLBDFpzI/AAAAAAAAAUw/g9MsuKO5xcs/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/map_first-grade-arable-land_1%2B(1).gif
(This would be consistent with, thousands of years later, the
superiority of the (coastal northern origin) Qing dynasty
compared to the (inland northern origin) Yuan dynasty.)
The North-South racial soul divergence also emerges in art:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_School
[quote]According to William Watson, while the Northern School
contains "the painters who favour clear, emphatic structure in
their compositions, with the use of explicit perspective
devices", the Southern School "cultivate a more intimate style
of landscape bathed in cloud and mist, in which pleasing
calligraphic forms tend to take the place of conventions
established for the representation of rocks, trees, etc. The
painter of the Southern School was interested in distant
effects, but his colleague of the Northern School paid more
attention to the devices of composition which achieve the
illusion of recession, and at the same time more attentive to
close realism of detail. ... some artists hover between the
two".[3] A more philosophical distinction is that the Southern
School painters "were thought to have sought the inner realities
and expressed their own lofty natures" while the Northern
"painted only the outward appearance of things, the worldly and
decorative".[4][/quote]
#Post#: 2141--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
By: 90sRetroFan Date: November 11, 2020, 10:37 pm
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Latest:
HTML https://lifestyle.inquirer.net/374225/neolithic-escalon-man-discovered-in-surigao/
[quote]“The Escalon Man significantly provides human skeletal
evidence of the Austronesians whose amazing navigation feat
based on indigenous knowledge of astronomy using wooden
outriggered boats in coming and going led to the peopling of the
Philippines, Island Southeast Asia, all the way to Polynesia,”
he added.
...
Agriculturist
Results from radiocarbon and mitochondrial DNA analyses,
according to the researchers, “indicated that the Escalon Man
belongs to the haplogroup E1a1a, which is known to be the marker
of Austronesian-speaking agriculturist populations that
originated in Taiwan and spread southward through the
Philippines to the Western Pacific, since about 4000 BP.”
They said this type is less diverse in the Philippines and in
the Sulawesi Islands, which suggests its movement during the
postglacial period.
The study also indicated that the Escalon Man is taller than the
Aeta, Mamanwa and Negrito people who arrived in the country
during the late Paleolithic area, which is about 50,000 to
10,000 years ago.
It also noted that the Escalon Man is a farmer and not a
hunter-gatherer and theorized it to be the ancestors of Mindanao
groups, notably the Manobo.[/quote]
I told you so.
#Post#: 7144--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
By: 90sRetroFan Date: June 14, 2021, 2:57 am
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HTML https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/neolithic-cabin-fragments-discovered-china-baodun-1234595480/
[quote]Fragments of 4,500-Year-Old Neolithic Cabin Discovered in
Southwest China
...
The carbonized bamboo fragments may have once belonged to a
house from the Baodun culture (2700 B.C.E.–1700 B.C.E.), a
Neolithic settlement in the Yangtze River area. Because Baodun
is the earliest known mass settlement on the Chendu Plain, it
has been a source of fascination among Chinese archaeologists,
who believe it challenges the long-held notion that the Yellow
River Valley was the sole origin of ancient civilization in the
country. Past research has shown that inhabitants grew rice and
foxtail millet, and were responsible for the earliest known form
of rice cultivation on the Chengdu Plain.
Baodun houses were constructed using the wattle-and-daub method,
which involves wooden frames and earthen walls. In this case,
however, the frames were bamboo, and the walls were made from
mud. Tang Miao, deputy head of the Baodun Project, told ECNS
that “the discovery has directly proved the existence of the
bamboo-mud wall.”[/quote]
For reference, bamboo habitat worldwide:
HTML https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Manal-Anis/publication/333531438/figure/fig1/AS:764835730055168@1559362456037/Global-Natural-Bamboo-Habitat-Source-National-Geographic-1980.jpg
#Post#: 12889--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
By: 90sRetroFan Date: April 18, 2022, 9:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.yahoo.com/news/quest-save-cantonese-world-dominated-123003051.html
[quote]As efforts began to save Cantonese at Stanford, the
language remained under threat worldwide.
It is being swamped by Mandarin, the official language of more
than 1 billion people in China and Taiwan — as different from
Cantonese as Spanish is from French.
...
Mandarin’s four tones are enough to flummox English speakers.
For example, depending on the inflection, "ma" can mean
"mother," "numb," "horse" or "yell at."
With nine tones, Cantonese is even more challenging to learn.
Scholars say it is closer to ancient Chinese than Mandarin is —
a Tang Dynasty poem would sound more like the original if read
in Cantonese.[/quote]
This is what I have been saying all along. Mandarin is Turanized
Chinese:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Mandarin
[quote]Old Mandarin or Early Mandarin was the speech of northern
China during the Jurchen-ruled Jin dynasty and the Mongol-led
Yuan dynasty (12th to 14th centuries).[/quote]
Cantonese is Aryan Chinese:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonese
[quote]It is the traditional prestige variety of the Yue Chinese
dialect group, which has over 80 million native speakers.[1]
While the term Cantonese specifically refers to the prestige
variety, it is often used to refer to the entire Yue subgroup of
Chinese[/quote]
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)
[quote]Prestige varieties are language or dialect families which
are generally considered by a society to be the most "correct"
or otherwise superior.[/quote]
Related:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/chinese-question/msg12527/#msg12527
[quote]Northern Chinese are a mix of early Han, Turkic peoples,
Mongols, Koreans, Tibetans and some other mostly nomadic tribes
which disappeared into the Han melting pot.
Southern Chinese were not nomadic, lived in a more mountainous
region, and were mostly involved in rice cultivation.
...
Stronger alcohol drinking culture: The Chinese from Northeast
China (Jilin, Heilongjiang, Liaoning) especially like to drink a
lot alcoholic drinks like the Russians or the Koreans do.
Heavier and more robust food: Compared to Chinese food from
Southern China, Chinese food from Northern China tends to be
greasier, heavier on the stomach, saltier, and more robust in
flavour. More meats and less vegetables are featured on Northern
Chinese food.
...
Stronger tea drinking culture: Southern Chinese people,
especially Chinese people from Chaozhou region of China and
Fujian region of China, tend to drink a lot more tea than
Northern Chinese people. Chinese statistic said that Chinese
people from Chaozhou region of China consume the most tea per
capita compared to the other Chinese from other regions of
China.
Lighter and more delicate food: As opposed to Northern Chinese
food, Southern Chinese food tends to be less greasy, lighter on
the stomach, less salty, and more delicate in flavour. More
vegetables are featured on Southern Chinese food because
vegetables could grow better in Southern China than in Northern
China.[/quote]
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/china-and-united-states-relations/msg12716/#msg12716
[quote]It has been noted that Cantonese culture is traditionally
marked by a "culture of distance from Confucius" (Jyutping:
Jyun5 jyu4 man4 faa3; Traditional Chinese:
遠儒文化, literally "culture of distance
from Confucius"),[49] which may be related to Lingnan
historically being a fringe region of the Chinese Empire and
influence from Tang dynasty (who placed greater emphasis on
Taoism and Buddhism than Confucianism): While Confucian
philosophy still has its deep influence on Cantonese culture,
Confucius Temples are harder to find in Lingnan than Buddhist or
Taoist ones.[/quote]
#Post#: 12892--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
By: rp Date: April 18, 2022, 11:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I was just thinking about how remarkable the differences were
between Cantonese and Mandarin are yesterday after watching
Ip-Man, and here I see this article on twitter today. After
watching the film, I felt that Cantonese represented a more
"authentic" side of China not usually known to those living in
the West. Add to this the fact that Westerners' first choice of
dialect is Mandarin when attempting to show off their
"Chinese-ness". Seriously, go on youtube and you will find tons
of "Whites" (including Jews) showing off their Mandarin in an
attempt to pass off as "experts" in Chinese culture.
However, regarding the article, I do not like the way they
worded it using preservationist language. Or would you make an
exception for this language?
More importantly, I recall on Aryanism you mentioned we should
not be linguistic supremacists, or would you make an exception
in this case since the original speakers are identifiably
Turanian?
#Post#: 12893--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
By: 90sRetroFan Date: April 19, 2022, 12:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"I do not like the way they worded it using preservationist
language."
Neither do I. Which is why I didn't quote those parts.
"I recall on Aryanism you mentioned we should not be linguistic
supremacists"
I mean we shouldn't claim that one language family is superior
to all others:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_family
We should, however, compare between different lineages within
the same language family, as was also done here, for example:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/true-left-breakthrough-degendering/msg6261/#msg6261
This is no different than our racial attitude of never claiming
one ethnicity to be superior to all others, but judging
superiority and inferiority of bloodlines within each ethnicity.
(In both domains, anti-Turanian attitudes are encouraged.)
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/true-left-breakthrough-degendering/msg8791/#msg8791
"Ip-Man"
The problem with Ip Man 1 is that it makes it appear as though
Chinese nationalism requires being anti-Japanese, which is
stupid. I prefer Ip Man 2 which concentrates on anti-British
sentiment. In tackling the issue of Japan:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fearless_(2006_film)
is more to my liking as it makes it clear that anti-Western
Japanese are fine, and it is solely pro-Western Japanese who are
the problem.
#Post#: 12897--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
By: rp Date: April 19, 2022, 2:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"The problem with Ip Man 1 is that it makes it appear as though
Chinese nationalism requires being anti-Japanese"
I agree. Only the first half on the film was good because it
avoided the anti-Japanese theme and the main villain was a
Northerner. It even took a slight jab at the Westernized
(progressivist) attitudes prevalent in China at that time. In
one scene, for example, the police officer Captain Li says "why
are you guys still talking about Kung Fu? Nowadays, it's all
about guns!".
#Post#: 15731--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
By: 90sRetroFan Date: September 19, 2022, 8:39 pm
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HTML https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202208/1274300.shtml
[quote]Hemudu Culture: Ancient farmers who enjoyed peace and
bounty
Stretching along the lower reaches of the Yangtze River, the
Hemudu Culture dates back to the Neolithic Period 7,000 years
ago. The culture gained its name from where it was first
discovered - Hemudu in Yuyao, East China's Zhejiang Province.
In the documents recorded and preserved in the Hemudu Cultural
Site Museum in Zhejiang, archaeologists described the culture as
"ancestors who knew how to enjoy their lives."
Archaeologists believe that the people of Hemudu lived a rather
peaceful and comfortable life as no signs of fierce conflicts or
lack of food were found during the excavation.
"These ancestors from 7,000 years ago already knew how to live
an exquisite life along the Yangtze River," researchers wrote in
the Hemudu Culture Catalog collected in the museum in Yuyao.
"They were a group who desired sun and sky, without worrying
about food or war."
...
It overturned the traditional view of "Yellow River Centralism,"
the idea that ancient Chinese civilization mainly radiated out
from its center around the Yellow River. Instead, a large and
mature culture was discovered along another major river, opening
a window to the Neolithic history of southern China.[/quote]
#Post#: 17307--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
By: SirGalahad Date: December 30, 2022, 6:04 pm
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@90sRetroFan Is it possible that the Shennongshi were
non-Chinese, both ethnically and linguistically? Would you
personally describe them as non-Chinese? The Aryan Diffusion
series mentions the southern Yue being superior to the northern
Huaxia/Han, but as far as I can tell, the Yue only became
Chinese after the Han assimilated them. From this angle, it
would make more sense to call the historical Yue Vietnamese
("Yue" and "Viet" are cognates after all, and the Vietnamese
also happen to consider "Thần Nông" one of their ancestors
and culture founders), than it would be to call them Chinese.
Labeling them as Vietnamese would be a massive
oversimplification since the Hundred Yue appear to have been
pretty diverse ethnically, linguistically, and even racially
(the Yue are described as barbarian animists on the one hand and
peaceful rice farmers on the other), but it's just for the sake
of argument.
I just wish that there was more clarification on the specific
identity of the Shennongshi, because even though ethnicity and
language mean very little to us, it gets kind of confusing the
more I look into the topic. And it might be even more confusing
for the average Joe who stumbles upon our website. Shennong is
labeled as a mythical Chinese leader in pretty much every
article about him that I can find online, and part 2 of our
Aryan Diffusion series centers itself around China, but that
might not necessarily be the case. What are your thoughts on the
issue? I think that the article about Aryan diffusion into
Europe does a good job of clarifying that all Aryan influence in
Europe ultimately derives from Anatolia, even though "Anatolian"
isn't very specific either, so it has its own issues. It's just
that the article on China seems to have less clarification
#Post#: 17310--------------------------------------------------
Re: Yandi vs Huangdi myth confirmed
By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 30, 2022, 8:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"Is it possible that the Shennongshi were non-Chinese, both
ethnically and linguistically?"
Strictly speaking, no one was Chinese prior to the Qin dynasty
which standardized the Chinese language.
"Would you personally describe them as non-Chinese?"
No, I want them to consider the Huaxia as less Chinese than
themselves.
"Yue only became Chinese after the Han assimilated them."
Qin had already expanded into Yue:
HTML https://mediakron.bc.edu/files/globalart/styles/full/public/globalart_E0Shq4.jpg
but Qin and Han were ideologically opposed (anti-Confucianist vs
pro-Confucianist), and residual discomfort with Han culture
remained in former Yue territories even after the Han dynasty,
as mentioned here:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/yandi-vs-huangdi-myth-confirmed/msg12889/#msg12889
[quote]It has been noted that Cantonese culture is traditionally
marked by a "culture of distance from Confucius" (Jyutping:
Jyun5 jyu4 man4 faa3; Traditional Chinese:
遠儒文化, literally "culture of distance
from Confucius"),[49] which may be related to Lingnan
historically being a fringe region of the Chinese Empire and
influence from Tang dynasty (who placed greater emphasis on
Taoism and Buddhism than Confucianism): While Confucian
philosophy still has its deep influence on Cantonese culture,
Confucius Temples are harder to find in Lingnan than Buddhist or
Taoist ones.[/quote]
so it could be argued that Yue is a more valid successor to Qin
(and hence China) than Han ever was.
'it would make more sense to call the historical Yue Vietnamese
("Yue" and "Viet" are cognates after all,"
"Vietnam" literally means "South of Yue". Saying the Yue were
Vietnamese would be saying they were south of themselves, which
makes no sense. I agree, however, that Yue should feel closer to
Vietnamese than to Han (let alone the further Turanized versions
after the Yuan dynasty!).
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNPaJF2_7Q
"Shennong is labeled as a mythical Chinese leader"
I do not have a problem with this. It is the more Turanized
whose Chineseness should be more suspect, considering that the
categorical Qin conception of China was to infrastructurally
incorporate the Yue (hence the Lingqu):
HTML https://d3i71xaburhd42.cloudfront.net/19fb88385d86138bafaee13ab09ee4ea21a27907/30-Figure1.1-1.png
but exclude the Xiongnu (hence the Great Wall):
HTML https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9f/02/be/9f02be0efac299f4afdf28a5ee120723.jpg
It was only the Han who disliked the Yue:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiyue#Culture
[quote]The Han also said their language was "animal
shrieking"[/quote]
Nothing has changed, by the way:
HTML https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-version-tiktok-reportedly-judges-090719443.html
[quote]China’s version of TikTok reportedly judges Cantonese
‘unrecognizable’[/quote]
;D
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