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       #Post#: 12678--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
   DIR By: guest55
       Date: April 9, 2022, 11:20 pm
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       This Man Votes
       --- Quote ---
       > He'll be voting in November. Will you?
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81kMaPi_Hug
       Comment:
       --- Quote ---
       > Vlad Putin and his ex-KGB pals would be so PROUD of you
       MAGAfans!
       --- End Quote ---
       #Post#: 12886--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
   DIR By: 90sRetroFan
       Date: April 18, 2022, 8:19 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Continuing from:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/news/brexit/msg12818/#msg12818
       Why do any leftists still support democracy?
  HTML https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10723057/Britons-Boris-Johnsons-Rwanda-plan-poll-says-Huge-support-defies-hand-wringing-critics.html
       --- Quote ---
       > Voters back Boris Johnson’s plan to send asylum seekers to
       Rwanda by two to one, a poll revealed last night.
       >
       > The survey for the Daily Mail found that even Labour voters
       are more likely to support it than oppose it
       --- End Quote ---
       Only a small minority care about being ethical. They, not the
       majority, should be the ones who make the important decisions:
       --- Quote ---
       > Gillian Triggs, assistant high commissioner at the UN refugee
       agency, said the scheme was ‘unacceptable’ and a breach of
       international law.
       --- End Quote ---
       #Post#: 12965--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
   DIR By: 90sRetroFan
       Date: April 21, 2022, 9:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Again our enemies accurately demonstrate that they are the true
       democrats:
  HTML https://www.eurocanadians.ca/2022/04/russia-ukraine-disinformation-what-are-they-hiding.html
       --- Quote ---
       > Could it be that Russia has a legitimate reason for this war?
       Could this war be considered a just war from Russia’s point of
       view? When we “connect the dots” of the past few decades, a
       picture that contradicts the “approved” narrative starts to
       emerge. To see clearly involves taking a trip down the “Rabbit
       Hole”.
       --- End Quote ---
       So what do our enemies claim is the source of legitimacy?
       --- Quote ---
       > Mearsheimer’s predictions are based on exposing the facts of
       the 2014 Maidan coup d’etat in Ukraine that threw out the
       democratically elected pro-Russian Prime Minister, Victor
       Yanukovich.
       > ...
       > As soon as Ukraine came closer to being incorporated into NATO
       after the Maidan coup, Russia’s immediate response was to
       re-annex the Crimean peninsula to Russia. This was a move wildly
       popular with the largely Russian population of Crimea who had
       voted strongly in the 2010 election for the deposed Prime
       Minister Yanukovich.  Russia held a referendum in Crimea on the
       choice of reunion with Russia. The vote was overwhelmingly in
       favour. In a flash, NATO lost its bid to take over Sevastopol.
       > ...
       > the largely ethnic Russian East Ukrainian region of the
       Donbas, which had also voted overwhelmingly for the deposed
       Prime Minister Yanukovich, attempted to break away from Ukraine
       now that the coup had effectively disenfranchised them. They
       formed the breakaway republics of Donetz and Lugansk, and also
       sought annexation by Russia.
       --- End Quote ---
       NATO was never about democracy; during the Cold War, NATO was
       happy to ally with autocracies so long as they were willing to
       fight the Soviets. This is what NATO needs to get back to. The
       sooner NATO drops its idiotic "pro-democracy" rhetoric, the
       sooner China stops feeling threatened by NATO and hence might
       see the sense in allying with NATO against Russia!
       #Post#: 13324--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
   DIR By: Zea_mays
       Date: May 14, 2022, 1:27 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Although rightists are eager to claim he embraces dictatorship,
       I think it is equally as likely he was just trying to "warn"
       that the West's "adversaries" were gaining ground on them.
       --- Quote ---
       > Justin Trudeau Said He Admired China’s Dictatorship.
       > [...]
       > At a “ladies night” fundraiser in Toronto in 2013, an
       up-and-coming politician was asked which nation’s administration
       he admired most in the world.
       >
       > Wearing a pale blue shirt and a smile, the fresh-faced Liberal
       Party leader answered Communist China.
       >
       > “There is a level of admiration I actually have for China
       because their basic dictatorship is allowing them to actually
       turn their economy around on a dime and say we need to go green,
       we need to start, you know, investing in solar,” Justin Trudeau
       told the group of women. “There is a flexibility that I know
       [Prime Minister] Stephen Harper must dream about: having a
       dictatorship where you can do whatever you wanted, that I find
       quite interesting.”
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML https://web.archive.org/web/20220412170532/https://fee.org/articles/justin-trudeau-said-he-admired-china-s-dictatorship-canadians-should-have-believed-him/
       --- Quote ---
       > Trudeau took to social media Friday to explain himself.
       >
       > “I pointed out that globally, Canada is up against big
       countries (China, for one) that can address some major issues
       quickly,” he wrote on Twitter.
       >
       > “It’s ridiculous for anyone to suggest that I of all people
       would trade our rights and freedoms for any other system of
       (government).”
       >
       > Trudeau made the remarks during a ladies-only fundraiser
       billed as “Justin Unplugged,” which invited women “to (really)
       get to know the future prime minister.”
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML https://web.archive.org/web/20220418221326/https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-under-fire-for-expressing-admiration-for-china-s-basic-dictatorship-1.1535116
       His response at 1:35 is something so many democracy-worshiping
       liberals say completely honestly. ...Like, if they just thought
       about what the words they are saying actually mean, maybe they
       would realize how pitiful democracy is...
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8FuHuUhNZ0
       #Post#: 13327--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
   DIR By: Zea_mays
       Date: May 14, 2022, 1:33 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       This article is behind a paywall, but many people have written
       similar headlines about elected judges and elected sheriffs.
       ...When will they realize electing politicians is just as
       dangerous for society?
       --- Quote ---
       > America’s elected coroners are too often a public-health
       liability
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML https://www.economist.com/united-states/2022/01/29/americas-elected-coroners-are-too-often-a-public-health-liability
       #Post#: 13333--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
   DIR By: Zea_mays
       Date: May 14, 2022, 1:50 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > The survey team found that compared to public opinion patterns
       in the U.S., in China there was very high satisfaction with the
       central government. In 2016, the last year the survey was
       conducted, 95.5 percent of respondents were either “relatively
       satisfied” or “highly satisfied” with Beijing. In contrast to
       these findings, Gallup reported in January of this year that
       their latest polling on U.S. citizen satisfaction with the
       American federal government revealed only 38 percent of
       respondents were satisfied with the federal government.
       > [...]
       > This result supports the findings of more recent shorter-term
       surveys in China, and reinforces long-held patterns of citizens
       reporting local grievances to Beijing in hopes of central
       government action. “I think citizens often hear that the central
       government has introduced a raft of new policies, then get
       frustrated when they don’t always see the results of such policy
       proclamations, but they think it must be because of malfeasance
       or foot-dragging by the local government,” said Saich.
       >
       > Compared to the relatively high satisfaction rates with
       Beijing, respondents held considerably less favorable views
       toward local government. At the township level, the lowest level
       of government surveyed, only 11.3 percent of respondents
       reported that they were “very satisfied.”
       >
       > Again, the U.S. reveals quite a different story. “American
       trust surveys over time show a clear distinction between low
       levels of trust towards the federal government, but a strong
       belief and faith in the power of local government — at the most
       local level, those positions may be filled by part-time
       volunteers who are a part of your everyday life,” said
       Cunningham. This dichotomy is highlighted by a 2017 Gallup poll,
       where 70 percent of U.S. respondents had a “great” or “fair”
       amount of trust in local government.
       >
       > Saich contends that the lack of trust in local governments in
       China is due to the fact that they provide the vast majority of
       services to the Chinese people. This trust deficit was
       compounded by the 1994 tax reforms, which garnered a
       substantially larger share of total national tax revenues for
       the central government. Local governments, despite being faced
       with declining revenues, were still on the hook for providing
       the bulk of public services throughout China.
       > [...]
       > The responses from survey participants in rural areas,
       however, surprised the researchers, particularly over time. “We
       did not anticipate how quickly both low-income citizens and
       people from less-developed regions in China closed the
       satisfaction gap with high-income citizens and people from the
       coastal areas,” Cunningham added.
       >
       > The surveys found that rural residents, generally poorer than
       those in cities, had more optimistic attitudes about inequality
       than their wealthier urban counterparts.
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/
       Imagine that, a 95.5% satisfaction rate when your nation isn't
       pitted in a battle for 49% of the population vs 51%...
       As for the local governments, note the misleading comparison of
       asking Chinese citizens if they were "satisfied" vs the US poll
       asking if people "trusted" the local governments. You can give
       them the benefit of the doubt that they aren't massively corrupt
       without being satisfied by them. ...And I imagine US
       satisfaction with local government would  be even lower if they
       actually provided any substantial amount of services.
       Non-existent public transit, poor road maintenance,
       locally-controlled police who are so corrupt they can get away
       with murder and steal more than non-police criminals, terrible
       city planning which promotes suburban sprawl and car-centric
       travel, etc.... People vote for the most unsatisfying policies
       and then wonder why things suck.
       #Post#: 13537--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
   DIR By: guest55
       Date: May 22, 2022, 12:06 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Biden voters were much more likely to report negative voting
       than Trump voters in the 2020 election
       --- Quote ---
       > In the 2020 election, many Americans chose to vote due to
       their hatred of the opposing candidate, rather than their
       fondness for their chosen politician. A study published in
       American Political Research seeks to understand the dynamics
       behind this so-called “negative voting” pattern.
       >
       > Politics is regularly a field that contains a lot of
       negativities, but the 2020 American presidential election was
       particularly difficult and polarizing. Negative voting is a
       choice made by constituents to vote for a certain candidate, not
       because they want to support them, but because they do not want
       their opposing candidate to win.
       >
       > This is in contrast with voters who vote because they have
       positive feelings about their own party and their candidate.
       Though this is not a new concept, it is very prevalent at this
       point in time with approximately one third of voters in the 2020
       election casting a negative vote for president.
       --- End Quote ---
       --- Quote ---
       > Researchers Diego Garzia and Frederico Ferreira da Silva
       utilized a Computer Assisted Web Interview survey conducted by
       Qualtrics. It included 1,064 participants to represent the
       American voting pool. Participants were presented with a direct
       measure of negative voting, where they were asked if they view
       their vote as an expression or support for their candidate or
       opposition for the competing candidate. Votes against are
       considered negative votes.
       >
       > Results showed that approximately 30% of participants cast a
       negative vote. Despite the polarization the 2020 election
       brought, this is not significantly more than in previous
       elections. Interestingly, Biden voters were much more likely
       (39%) to report negative voting than Trump voters (18%).
       >
       > This is in line with previous research that showed that the
       incumbent candidate was more often the target of negative voting
       than the challenger. Negative voting is seen less in people with
       strong party affiliations and can go as high as 50% among people
       who swing between parties or identify as independents.
       --- End Quote ---
       --- Quote ---
       > This study sought to revisit the idea of negative voting in
       regard to the very polarizing 2020 presidential election.
       Despite the strengths, this study has some limitations. For
       example, post-electoral surveys can lead to post-election
       rationalization, which could skew the results. Additionally,
       online surveys have come under fire many times for potentially
       being less accurate and being completed less carefully.
       >
       > The study, “The Electoral Consequences of Affective
       Polarization? Negative Voting in the 2020 US Presidential
       Election“, was authored by Diego Garzia and Frederico Ferreira
       da Silva.
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML https://www.psypost.org/2022/05/biden-voters-were-much-more-likely-to-report-negative-voting-than-trump-voters-in-the-2020-election-63174
       This Man Votes 2
       --- Quote ---
       > When they show you who they are, believe them.
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT_4dPiGSNA
       In other-words, people are forced to vote for "the lesser of two
       evils", which means they're often still voting for evil. This is
       democracy.
       #Post#: 13770--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
   DIR By: Zea_mays
       Date: May 30, 2022, 12:00 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I assume this is not satire. It really illustrates just how
       incapable democracy is of functioning. The politicians just vote
       to hold themselves unaccountable. LOL
  HTML https://i.redd.it/8e81iqfc61291.jpg
       Note that one of the major supposed differences between
       autocracy and democracy is that, in a democracy, politicians are
       theoretically able to be held "accountable" for their actions by
       the check and balance of voting. But little good that's ever
       done.
       Meanwhile, corrupt monarchs and dynasties were often overthrown
       by other dynasties or individuals who claimed they could do a
       better job.
       #Post#: 14137--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
   DIR By: Zea_mays
       Date: June 16, 2022, 10:25 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Some good news for once:
       --- Quote ---
       > Poll: Half of Americans now predict U.S. may 'cease to be a
       democracy' someday
       >
       > A new Yahoo News/YouGov poll shows that most Democrats (55%)
       and Republicans (53%) now believe it is “likely” that America
       will “cease to be a democracy in the future” — a stunning
       expression of bipartisan despair about the direction of the
       country.
       >
       > Half of all Americans (49%) express the same sentiment when
       independents and those who do not declare any political
       affiliation are factored in, while just a quarter (25%) consider
       the end of U.S. democracy unlikely and another quarter (25%) say
       they’re unsure.
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML https://www.yahoo.com/news/poll-half-of-americans-now-predict-us-may-cease-to-be-a-democracy-someday-090028564.html
       Although, to be realistic, it is likely that the 53% of
       Republicans want to end democracy to empower themselves, while
       the 55% of Democrats fear that Republicans are going to be the
       ones who end democracy.
       #Post#: 14249--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
   DIR By: 90sRetroFan
       Date: June 21, 2022, 8:33 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Rightists are the authentic democrats:
  HTML https://www.newsweek.com/texas-secede-us-2023-gop-pushes-referendum-1717254
       --- Quote ---
       > The Texas GOP's new party platform also called for full repeal
       of the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965
       --- Quote ---
       > the Act sought to secure the right to vote for racial
       minorities throughout the country, especially in the South.
       According to the U.S. Department of Justice, the Act is
       considered to be the most effective piece of federal civil
       rights legislation ever enacted in the country.[9] It is also
       "one of the most far-reaching pieces of civil rights legislation
       in U.S. history."[10]
       --- End Quote ---
       The Voting Rights Act of 1965 defends suffragism, not democracy.
       As I explained here:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/how-the-u-s-stole-mexico/msg13791/#msg13791
       --- Quote ---
       > Rightists are the true democrats in that they still hold to
       the original definition of the demos. False Leftists, who favour
       non-demos people voting also, would be more accurately labelled
       as suffragists. Suffragism is thus a way to undermine
       (traditional) democracy without abandoning elections. Of course
       True Leftists differ from False Leftists in that we would prefer
       to openly defeat democracy by ending elections altogether.
       Nevertheless, until we succeed in ending elections, we of course
       pragmatically prefer suffragism over (traditional) democracy,
       which is why we support:
       >
       >
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/demographic-blueshift/
       --- End Quote ---
       True Leftists (authentic autocrats) have been reluctantly forced
       into an emergency coalition with False Leftists (suffragists,
       who inaccurately call themselves "democrats") solely in order to
       keep rightists (authentic democrats, who are nevertheless
       inaccurately called "autocrats" by False Leftists) from winning.
       Back to first link, further evidence that rightists are the
       authentic democrats:
       --- Quote ---
       > The platform describes homosexuality as "an abnormal lifestyle
       choice," and also declares that the party opposes "all efforts
       to validate transgender identity."
       --- End Quote ---
       Majority opinion within the demos is all that matters to
       authentic democrats (ie. rightists). They do not care about
       minority opinion within the demos, nor do they care about
       opinions of non-demos people (irrespective of number).
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