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#Post#: 10523--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Democracy
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: January 11, 2022, 11:36 pm
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HTML https://www.yahoo.com/news/never-let-black-people-vote-200313926.html
--- Quote ---
> They will never let Black people vote
> ...
> The president should use his bully pulpit and Congress should
dismantle the filibuster to fight voter suppression. Still, I
have yet to hear a specific action or thing that Biden or the
Democratic Party can do to secure Black people’s voting rights.
Maybe we should ask ourselves: What if there ain’t no finished?
>
> What if there is no single answer?
>
> Throughout the history of this country, there is one enduring
constant that is as steadfast and unmovable as the resilience of
Black people. Like us, one all-American precept has endured
slavery, reconstruction, Jim Crow, the civil rights movement and
every microsecond of America’s existence.
>
> They will never ever allow Black people to vote.
>
> Even before America ended its constitutional system of
race-based human trafficking, free Black people were restricted
from voting in a majority of America—either by law or in
practice. After the bloodiest war the continent has ever seen,
white men in the South and in the North committed themselves to
a terror campaign to convince Black people that participating in
the political process was a life-threatening endeavor. They
enforced it with church bombings, police beatings and
extrajudicial death sentences. Voter suppression provoked the
longest filibuster in U.S. history, a Bloody Sunday and an
untold number of massacres. After the passage of the Voting
Rights Act of 1965, a majority of white Americans felt that
civil rights demonstrations were not justified. Even today,
Black voters wait longer to vote, are more likely to be removed
from voter rolls and face polling place closures more often.
> ...
> The expectation that we will find a solution to the
centuries-long tradition of obstructing the Black vote is futile
at best. Joe Biden doesn’t have a secret Illuminati password
that will hypnotize Sens. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema into
not doing the same thing that white people have done since the
Constitution appraised Black humanity at 60 percent of white
personhood. I’m pretty sure Latosha Brown doesn’t have one of
those Men in Black penlights that will make this country forget
its history of suppressing Black voters.
>
> Speeches won’t transform this country. Protests won’t stop
white supremacy. Neither will legislation, Supreme Court
rulings, voter registration drives or changing the procedural
rules of the Senate. Applying pressure to Sinema and Manchin
won’t stop their colleagues who feel the same way but are too
afraid to say it.
> ...
> We must resign ourselves that we will always have to fight.
--- End Quote ---
Or we could end democracy altogether. It is the existence of
elections in the first place that created all the problems with
voting that we now have to deal with. If there were no more
elections, we wouldn't have to worry about voting. It would be
just like the old days before Western colonialism happened.
#Post#: 10627--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Democracy
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: January 17, 2022, 8:42 pm
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This is democracy:
HTML https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/database-reveals-u-congressmen-owned-145034260.html
--- Quote ---
> A new Washington Post database detailing all of the members of
Congress who were slave owners offers insight into how history
has at times celebrated those who owned other humans as property
— some of whom served as recently as the 20th century.
>
> As the Post notes in its sprawling compilation, slavery "was
deeply rooted among the wealthy families most likely to send
someone to Washington." The Post project concludes that 1,715
members of Congress were slave-owners at some point in their
lives, "including at least one lawmaker who held Native
Americans in bondage."
>
> One lawmaker — Rep. John T.H. Worthington — was listed as
being "the enslaver of 29 people in the 1840 Census while he was
representing the Baltimore area in the House," the Post reports.
Worthington at one point sold his own enslaved daughter to a man
looking for a slave to bear his children. The price: $1,800.
--- End Quote ---
There is nothing surprising about those popular with the
majority (at least enough to be elected into office) being the
same ones who oppress minorities.
The database:
HTML https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/interactive/2022/congress-slaveowners-names-list/
#Post#: 10644--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Democracy
DIR By: Zea_mays
Date: January 18, 2022, 12:50 am
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I didn't want to write all this, but I am so baffled how people
like this can be "professional" political writers. How can you
be a professional press correspondent and journalist, and see
this personally every day, and not take a step back and really
reflect on the root of what's going on?
--- Quote ---
> Will we really let ourselves be governed by irredeemable
idiots? That's the choice, America
>
> Anthony Fauci's hot-mic moment expressed the frustration many
of us feel. But right now, the "morons" are winning
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://www.salon.com/2022/01/13/will-we-really-let-ourselves-be-governed-by-irredeemable-morons-thats-the-choice-america/
How is that even a choice that is on the table??? Can you
imagine ancient Chinese philosophers sitting around having an
entirely serious debate over whether they should allow morons to
elect morons to rule their nation? That sounds like the plot to
a comedy skit.
Yet, for some reason, we take democracy as an inviolable thing.
--- Quote ---
> As a thought experiment, see if you can consider any of
today's societal problems independent of politics. You may find
it impossible, since many of us believe our problems are caused
by our divisive politics.
--- End Quote ---
Caused by DEMOCRACY, not "politics". One party autocracy, for
example, is a political system which avoids the inherent
divisiveness of democracy.
--- Quote ---
> Voting rights. Climate change. The pandemic. Health care. The
economy. Education. Infrastructure. All of them have a political
component, and because of that a good argument could be made
that divisive politics is the single largest problem we face.
--- End Quote ---
Imagine if we didn't have to vote for politicians who then have
to vote on whether or not to take those problems seriously.
Imagine if we had a competent government that just addressed
them!
--- Quote ---
> Nothing is more representative of that than Wednesday's
revelation that Republicans in several states forged
electoral-vote letters on behalf of the former president in the
2020 presidential election. It does have the virtue of perhaps
proving there was fraud in that election — but not by the
Democrats.
--- End Quote ---
This could have been avoided by just not having democracy in the
first place.
--- Quote ---
> If that doesn't convince you, then watch Republican Sen. Rand
Paul of Kentucky grill Dr. Anthony Fauci on Tuesday during a
public hearing over the COVID pandemic. Engaged in a blatant
effort to score political points with his "fans" (not his
constituents), Paul verbally assaulted a government employee who
is trying to deal with a crippling pandemic.
--- End Quote ---
Why does Paul have any power? Beacuse people voted for him. Why
are are people allowed to elect morons to positions of supreme
power? Because we have democracy.
--- Quote ---
> Yes, politics is the problem. President Biden also tried to
deal with that Tuesday as he traveled to Georgia and spoke about
voting rights and the need to get rid of the Senate filibuster
in order to pass crucial voting legislation by simple majority
vote. Kentucky's senior senator, Mitch McConnell, threatened
retribution if the Democrats modify the filibuster.
--- End Quote ---
Democracy is the problem. In any sane and functional system of
government, the president could just fix that kind of stuff
without being subject to a bureaucracy made of morons.
--- Quote ---
> Of course. Republicans don't want to rely on a simple majority
— they don't have one.
--- End Quote ---
Ffs, if we don't even have a "real" democracy now, why not just
get rid of it entirely?
--- Quote ---
> "The goal of the former president and his allies is to
disenfranchise anyone who votes against them," Biden said,
arguing for a national law guaranteeing voter access.
--- End Quote ---
If we didn't have democracy in the first place, this wouldn't be
an issue. Trump voters wouldn't be an issue. Politicians elected
by Trumpists to destroy the nation wouldn't be an issue.
--- Quote ---
> "Simple as that. The facts won't matter. Your vote won't
matter. They'll just decide what they want, and then do it.
That's the kind of power you see in totalitarian states. Not in
democracies."
--- End Quote ---
Our votes don't matter to begin with. Republicans already have
that kind of power FFS. They operated outside of the law in a
self-coup during the entire duration of the Trump
administration!!! How were they able to get that power? By
democracy. They had more politicians elected and therefore
democratically decided to do whatever the hell they wanted.
Very totalitarian, but also very democratic.
--- Quote ---
> He warned us that "the battle for the soul of America is not
over."
--- End Quote ---
It was over before it even began if politicians want to keep
defending democracy...
--- Quote ---
> Of course, that nonsensical reasoning comes from the same
political party with members who cannot openly denounce Nazis,
while endorsing taking horse deworming pills, injecting bleach
and drinking their own urine — either to battle the coronavirus
or perhaps because they don't live in states where marijuana is
legal and edibles are not readily available. I imagine weekends
in those areas are mighty dull if you can't ingest bleach and
drink your own urine.
> [...]
> At this point the Republican Party has no conscience. It is a
party of fascists; angry, small-minded people with no sense of
empathy, overwhelmed by their own greed and avarice. Privately
they may condemn the "Big Lie," but they don't have the temerity
to do so publicly. They let the lies spread.
>
> That's how the remnants of the Republican Party are scamming
millions of Americans, by publicly pretending that knowledge and
science are political commodities to be traded in the public
arena, like pork belly futures. And journalists are aiding and
abetting their efforts.
--- End Quote ---
Yeah, by writing idiotic articles taking for granted that being
ALLOWED to vote for these treasonous con men should even be an
option on the table, this journalist is indeed aiding and
abetting their efforts.
--- Quote ---
> We're looking at fascists.
>
> The Republican party is a fascist party. Moreover, it is a
corporate fascist party.
> [...]
> It is a party that overwhelmingly and publicly backs a man who
pushed an insurrection to overturn legitimate election results.
The members of this party only care about their own power,
nothing for you. And they want to exploit you for everything
you're worth — which, to them, is what you can bring to the
table as a corporate indentured servant.
--- End Quote ---
For the love of god, if they are, then why are you arguing we
should be allowed to vote for them?
For the record, Republicans are obviously not fascists. An
actual fascist regime would send all Republican politicians and
voters to concentration camps for being a threat to the national
unity and for intentionally sabotaging the state's power.
--- Quote ---
> If you can separate politics from our problems, then take a
look at the solutions proposed by the two major parties in this
country and compare and contrast those proposals. In some cases,
I question whether the Democratic Party understands the root
cause of some of our problems. Their solutions are questionable
at times.
--- End Quote ---
The root of the problem is DEMOCRACY, dumbass.
--- Quote ---
> Then, as Fauci pulled away from the mic, he could be heard
muttering, "What a moron! Jesus Christ."
>
> Yes. Morons. ... We elected these morons. We get the
government we deserve when so few of us vote and when so few of
us are educated about the issues, and especially when we treat
politicians as if they were professional wrestlers and we're
eager to see a smackdown. How close are we to seeing a President
Dwayne Elizondo "Mountain Dew" Herbert Camacho?
--- End Quote ---
The journalist can write this, yet _still_ continue to defend
democracy. Wow.
--- Quote ---
> As legendary TV newsman Edward R. Murrow said at the Radio,
Television, News Directors Association annual meeting in 1958,
"This nation is now in competition with malignant forces of evil
who are using every instrument at their command to empty the
minds of their subjects and fill those minds with slogans ... we
are engaged in a great experiment to discover whether a free
public opinion can devise and direct methods of managing the
affairs of the nation. We may fail. But in terms of information,
we are handicapping ourselves needlessly."
--- End Quote ---
The experiment failed hundreds of years ago. Why do we keep
democracy around when our only choices are to vote for literal
evil? How is that acceptable? How is that worth continuing???
--- Quote ---
> The day of reckoning is nigh upon us, and the midterm
elections this year could decide for years to come whether or
not we continue as a democracy.
--- End Quote ---
A year ago, the Republicans decided they were done with
democracy. When you have one party which will use any and all
means at their disposal to end democracy, and another party who
literally does nothing to punish them or prevent them from
attempting more coups, logically, ever possible outcome ends
with democracy ending.
--- Quote ---
> As the computer Joshua warns us at the end of the movie "War
Games": "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."
--- End Quote ---
Democracy is a strange game, the only winning move is not to
elect anyone at all, since all politicians are evil...
--- Quote ---
> Joshua was talking about global thermonuclear war. That's
hardly a game. But politics isn't a "game" either. It's supposed
to be a way of working out our problems together in pursuit of
common goals.
>
> It would be nice if the American electorate were as smart as a
fictional computer from a movie produced in 1984.
--- End Quote ---
It would be nice if we stopped treating politics like a game--a
literal popularity contest with reality TV stars--and abolished
the electorate entirely...
#Post#: 10872--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Democracy
DIR By: guest55
Date: January 28, 2022, 12:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
'This is not going to end well': Former Fox anchor reacts to
recent rhetoric
--- Quote ---
> CNN's Jim Acosta speaks to former Fox anchor Gretchen Carlson
about the network's take on tensions between Ukraine and Russia.
> #CNN #News
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOLPv2cr7TQ
Insanity from all sides! LOL!!!
#Post#: 10879--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Democracy
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: January 28, 2022, 8:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_GY_p2jfY8
As I was saying here earlier:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/allies/ilhan-omar/msg10531/#msg10531
--- Quote ---
> Here is actually an opening for leftists to turn
anti-democratic and accuse rightists of being democratic:
> ...
> Cawthorn is basically arguing that his popularity is
sufficient qualification for his re-election, whereas we are
arguing that he should be disqualified irrespective of his
popularity due to his behaviour. This reframes the battle as
rule of law (championed by the left) vs democracy (championed by
the right).
--- End Quote ---
Are leftists paying attention?
#Post#: 11102--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Democracy
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: February 6, 2022, 11:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://us.yahoo.com/news/haiti-crossroads-must-choose-path-195723221.html
--- Quote ---
> Haiti is at a crossroads. We must choose the path that leads
to democracy
--- End Quote ---
Why?
--- Quote ---
> Thirty-six years after the fall of the Duvalier dictatorship,
Haiti finds itself at a crossroads. My compatriots have turned
their backs on the dictatorship and chosen democracy and respect
for the rule of law.
--- End Quote ---
Democracy does not respect rule of law. If the majority wants to
do something illegal, a democracy will side with majority
opinion. This is why refugee pushbacks are happening, you moron.
--- Quote ---
> Unfortunately, we are far from the right track. The heinous
assassination of President Jovenel Moïse last year has brought
our country to the brink of chaos, and our institutions are
completely dysfunctional. My mission and that of the government
over which I preside is to get our country back on track to
achieve democracy as soon as possible.
--- End Quote ---
Why?
--- Quote ---
> To do this, we must create the conditions to move toward free,
fair and inclusive elections that will allow the Haitian people
to choose their leaders. Any other step is a distraction that
can unnecessarily prolong the political instability that
disrupts their daily lives.
--- End Quote ---
So you think political instability that disrupts people's daily
lives is bad. In that case, why would you want elections once
every few years?
--- Quote ---
> The day after I took office, I began to meet, as promised,
with all the political parties and organized groups of civil
society, with a view to reaching a political agreement for a
peaceful and effective governance for the interim period. This
resulted in the signing of an agreement on Sept. 11, 2021 with
many political parties, including those that are among the most
important, and with a significant amount of civil-society
organizations.
--- End Quote ---
So you think effective governance is good. In that case, why
would you want many political parties which will only try to
obstruct one another from governing effectively in order to
prevent them from getting re-elected next time (see above)?
--- Quote ---
> I have spared no effort in reaching out to my compatriots who
prefer a different approach. I do not miss any opportunity to
extend to them all a fraternal hand, asking them to do
everything possible to honor the words of our flag, “Unity makes
us stronger.”
--- End Quote ---
Then you should support fascism, not democracy.
--- Quote ---
> Today, the top priorities for my administration and the
Haitian people are to fight insecurity and poverty; create an
enabling environment that will lead to the ratification of a new
constitution; and hold general elections by the end of this
year. Democratic elections are the only way to overcome the
current political crisis.
--- End Quote ---
Why are democratic elections required to fight insecurity and
poverty? Have you ever heard of a country called China?
--- Quote ---
> The Haitian constitution establishes that a president must be
elected by the Haitian people. Gone are the days when armed
gangs marched on the capital to overthrow a government and
impose an unelected president. A president cannot be named,
appointed or selected by any group of people or organization.
Elections are the only way forward.
--- End Quote ---
How so? Having elections does not preclude armed gangs marching
the on capital. Did you not see Jan 6th 2021 in the US?
Also, under democracy, the president is selected by the
majority, which is a group of people. Therefore if you believe a
president cannot be selected by any group of people, you should
not support democracy. Instead, you should support each
president choosing their own successor.
--- Quote ---
> On Feb. 7, I urge all Haitians to come together to face our
challenges, so that we become stronger. I am determined to bring
all groups together, no matter how hard it might be.
--- End Quote ---
And you think having multiple political parties and elections
once every few years is the way to do this?
--- Quote ---
> Ariel Henry is the prime minister of Haiti.
--- End Quote ---
Ariel Henry clearly does not have a clue what he is talking
about.
#Post#: 11208--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Democracy
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: February 11, 2022, 11:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
A False Leftist agrees with me that Xi and Putin are not
ideological autocrats (though the False Leftist thinks this is a
good thing):
HTML https://us.yahoo.com/news/worried-russia-china-working-together-140031696.html
--- Quote ---
> there were also grounds for optimism in the joint statement
issued in conjunction with the summit. It began with what can
fairly be described as a lengthy and defensive rationalization
for the legitimacy of their regimes.
> ...
> rather than claim the superiority of fixed autocratic rule by
what Putin and Xi undoubtedly regard as an enlightened elite,
the joint statement acknowledges the universality of the value
of democratic governance.
>
> Instead, the claim is that the autocrats of the world embody
and discern Rousseau’s general will through means other than
periodic elections
--- End Quote ---
But then the False Leftist absurdly decides to keep calling them
"autocrats" anyway:
--- Quote ---
> This was not a statement issued by two leaders confident that
the future belongs to them. Instead, it was two autocrats
worried about becoming isolated or falling victim to a color
revolution, and seeking to make the world a bit safer for
authoritarian governance.
>
> The values of American democratic capitalism still resonate.
It is remarkable how many autocrats around the world, including
Putin, feel the need to run periodic rigged elections, to create
the pretense of democratic choice to underpin their claims to
legitimacy.
>
> Autocratic governance is spreading, not shrinking as it did
for a couple of decades. But the appeal of liberty and
democratic governance has not shrunk. The autocrats of the world
still feel obligated to pay homage to them, and seek to redefine
them.
--- End Quote ---
That means they are not autocrats! The only true autocrats are
those who would never claim to be democratic because they would
consider such a claim an insult to themselves and indeed to the
entire pre-colonial history of their countries (implying that
they never in their entire pre-colonial history had a system of
government better than what Westerners gave them).
Again this goes back to the simple choice I outlined here:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/western-democracy/msg3362/#msg3362
--- Quote ---
> So here it what is comes down to:
>
> A) "Western civilization is not superior to all other
civilizations."
> B) "Democracy is superior to autocracy."
>
> Challenge for False Leftists: PICK ONE. Because if you believe
B), you logically cannot believe A).
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 11272--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Democracy
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: February 14, 2022, 11:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgWG8RgHQw4
Yet the TYT morons cannot figure out that everything they are
complaining about are exclusive consequences of democracy.
#Post#: 11332--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Democracy
DIR By: Zea_mays
Date: February 17, 2022, 5:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Republicans have dropped the mask — they openly support
fascism. What do we do about it?
>
> Are we so numb we can't see what just happened? Republicans
don't even pretend to believe in democracy anymore
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://www.salon.com/2022/02/14/have-dropped-the-mask--they-openly-support-fascism-what-do-we-do-about-it/
Why should leftists pretend we believe in democracy either? If
you believe Trump and Trumpists are inferior and don't deserve
to be in power, you cannot believe in democracy. If you do
believe in democracy, well...next time the Republicans get
elected, it's your fault for supporting the system that enables
them to keep winning.
--- Quote ---
> Most important of all, pro-democracy Americans should resist
the temptation or urge to compromise with their enemies or
appease them. There is no room for "bipartisanship," compromise
or truce with the Republican fascists and their allies.
--- End Quote ---
That's literally urging for non-treasonous Americans to stop
accepting democracy. FFS! Refusing to compromise would mean
refusing to allow them to be in power at all.
God, these useful idiots in the media need to stop calling
Republicans fascists. A real implementation of fascism is one of
the few things that could end Trumpism for good, by executing
him for his crimes and putting all his supporters, who pose a
threat to national unity, into gulags.
#Post#: 11557--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Democracy
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: February 27, 2022, 9:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Incomprehensible thinking:
HTML https://www.yahoo.com/news/macron-ally-offers-help-far-155638060.html
--- Quote ---
> PARIS (Reuters) - Francois Bayrou, an ally of French President
Emmanuel Macron, said on Sunday that he was prepared to give his
signature to help Macron's archrival far-right candidate Marine
Le Pen, to stand in April's presidential election.
>
> Bayrou, a centrist and historic figure in French politics,
said his move came in an effort to "save democracy", as some
candidates, including Le Pen, were struggling to obtain the 500
signatures from elected officials needed to submit a valid bid.
>
> "I have decided (...) - and this is really not my dream when
it comes to political engagement - to give my signature to
Marine Le Pen", Bayrou told RTL radio on Sunday.
>
> According to French election rules, the signatures are made
public, deterring many of France's over 40,000 elected officials
to support their candidates despite sharing their views,
especially when it comes to the far-right or far-left.
>
> Le Pen, who challenged Macron in the second round of the 2017
elections but has seen her third bid for the Elysee Palace
suffer setbacks following a wave of defections from her party
and the suspension of her campaign spokesman, thanked Bayrou in
a tweet.
>
> "Despite our political disagreements, his approach aims to
keep our democracy alive", she said.
>
> Bayrou earlier this month created what he calls a "sponsorship
bank", joined by a few hundred local officials, willing to give
their signatures to candidates struggling to obtain them, even
if they represent a large part of the public according to
opinion polls.
>
> The mayor of the rural town of Pau, whose MoDem party accounts
for a seizable chunk of President Macron's parliamentary
majority, Bayrou said that many thought the rule was unfair.
>
> "Officials, in particular mayors, are wary their signature
will be seen as an endorsement", he said. "This is why we
decided to make them sign a declaration which says this is for
saving democracy, our signature is no endorsement."
--- End Quote ---
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