URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       True Left
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: True Left vs False Left
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 9511--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
       By: Zea_mays Date: October 22, 2021, 1:24 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Democracy self-optimizes to the point where the outcome of
       nearly every election hinges on a small handfull of "swing"
       districts, and where nearly every legislative session is
       dominated by a few individuals who have all the bargaining
       power.
       At this point, how could anyone still believe that
       corporate-funded politicians, pushing corporate-written
       policies, elected in a pure popularity contest by a selfish
       majority of voters is a tolerable system of government?
       I think this is why people like Alexander Hamilton wanted the
       President and upper house of the legislature to serve for life
       (and even the original US Senate was chosen by state
       legislatures rather than popular election for over 100 years)...
       People in the government shouldn't be chosen in a popularity
       contest like a friggin' prom queen. They should be appointed and
       serve based on merit. The hyper-competitiveness of election
       cycles and inability of the government to be more powerful than
       corporations have ensured politicians care more about the
       corporations funding their re-election campaigns than what's
       beneficial for society as a whole.
       [quote]In recent days, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) has told
       associates that he is considering leaving the Democratic Party
       if President Joe Biden and Democrats on Capitol Hill do not
       agree to his demand to cut the size of the social infrastructure
       bill from $3.5 trillion to $1.75 trillion, according to people
       who have heard Manchin discuss this. Manchin has said that if
       this were to happen, he would declare himself an “American
       Independent.” And he has devised a detailed exit strategy for
       his departure.
       [...]
       He told associates that he has a two-step plan for exiting the
       party. First, he would send a letter to Sen. Chuck Schumer, the
       top Senate Democrat, removing himself from the Democratic
       leadership of the Senate. (He is vice chair of the Senate
       Democrats’ policy and communications committee.) Manchin hopes
       that would send a signal. He would then wait and see if that
       move had any impact on the negotiations. After about a week, he
       said, he would change his voter registration from Democrat to
       independent.
       [...]
       Manchin told associates that he was prepared to initiate his
       exit plan earlier this week and had mentioned the possibility to
       Biden. But he was encouraged by the conversations with Sanders
       and top Democrats that occurred at the start of the week and did
       not yet see a reason to take this step. Still, he has informed
       associates that because he is so out of sync with the Democratic
       Party, he believes it is likely he will leave the party by
       November 2022.[/quote]
  HTML https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/10/senator-joe-manchin-democratic-party-exit-plan-biden-infrastructure-deal-exclusive/
       #Post#: 9517--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
       By: guest55 Date: October 22, 2021, 2:58 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Purely for entertainment: (136k likes  :D)
       …but the people are retarded
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgcqB8-AxE
       #Post#: 9650--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: November 3, 2021, 1:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Still believe in democracy, False Leftists?
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9NKm7c04ZM
  HTML https://vdare.com/posts/the-youngkin-win-shows-anti-crt-is-a-winning-issue
  HTML https://vdare.com/public_upload/publication/featured_image/56192/VDARE-youngkin-2.jpg
       #Post#: 9677--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: November 6, 2021, 1:31 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Democracy is bad not because it is controlled by money, but
       because it is controlled by popularity:
  HTML https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/n-j-truck-driver-notches-180029349.html
       [quote]A N.J. Truck Driver Notches 'Stunning' Election Win After
       Spending $153 on His Campaign
       ...
       In one of the more remarkable upsets of Tuesday's elections, a
       New Jersey truck driver who spent less than $200 on his campaign
       unseated a longtime state Senate president.
       While early vote tabulations led many outlets to report that
       Democrat Steve Sweeney had won reelection in New Jersey's 3rd
       Legislative District, continued counts showed that a political
       newcomer — Edward Durr, the Republican nominee — was actually
       leading by 4 points, or a little more than 2,000 votes.
       ...
       "It is stunning and shocking and I cannot figure it out," the
       state Senate Majority Leader told the AP.[/quote]
       I can:
  HTML https://barenakedislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Screen-Shot-2021-11-05-at-9.13.14-PM.png
       #Post#: 9978--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
       By: Zea_mays Date: December 4, 2021, 5:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]A national poll of people ages 18 to 29 found that most
       young Americans said that they believed the county’s democracy
       is either “in trouble” or has "failed."
       Specifically, 52 percent of respondents said that they held
       these beliefs, including 39 percent who said that the U.S. is a
       “democracy in trouble” and 13 percent who said that the country
       is a “failed democracy,” the poll from the Institute of Politics
       at Harvard Kennedy School released on Wednesday found.
       Twenty-seven percent of the respondents said that they viewed
       the country as “somewhat functioning democracy,” and just 7
       percent said that the U.S. is a "healthy democracy."
       When considering the results along party lines, more Republicans
       viewed the state of democracy in the country as in trouble or
       failed than did Democrats or unaffiliated young people, the
       survey found.
       A total of 70 percent of Republicans said that they held this
       view, including 47 percent who said that the U.S. democracy is
       in trouble and 23 percent who said that it has failed. Among
       Democrats, 45 percent said that the country's democracy is in
       trouble or has failed, and 51 percent of independent and
       unaffiliated young people had the same responses.[/quote]
  HTML https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/583736-one-half-of-young-americans-in-new-poll-say-democracy-in-us-is-either
       Note that more rightists think democracy in the US has failed
       than leftists. (How the hell is that even possible??? We had a
       rightist coup attempt that nearly succeeded and leftists think
       it's not a big deal??? That speaks volumes to the effectiveness
       of propaganda--both propaganda aimed towards rightists to rile
       them up and propaganda aimed towards leftists to make them
       complacent.)
       People's faith in democracy and trust in institutions has been
       steadily decreasing for generations, and there's no reason that
       trend is going to reverse.
       So, the question is: who will replace democracy first, rightists
       or leftists? We need to be hammering the alternatives to
       democracy to all the people who believe it's failed.
       #Post#: 9987--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
       By: Zea_mays Date: December 4, 2021, 6:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Professional liar and coup-organizer Elliott Abrams would rather
       have democratic governments which r*pe and massacre civilians
       than non-democratic governments:
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InGCmxCjaWE
       How long until leftists are finally able to decouple "human
       rights" from democracy? ...And how long until they realize the
       very concept of "rights" will forever fail to actually uphold
       the liberties they want to guarantee?
       #Post#: 9997--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 4, 2021, 9:22 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "Note that more rightists think democracy in the US has failed
       than leftists. (How the hell is that even possible???"
       "Non-whites"/women voting in sufficient numbers to affect
       election outcomes = failed democracy according to rightists. An
       increasing number of rightists openly call for prohibiting
       "non-whites", as well as women, from voting.
       "So, the question is: who will replace democracy first,
       rightists or leftists?"
       To be fair, most rightists seem to trust democracy with only
       "white" men voting more than they trust autocracy. So, strictly
       speaking, rightists do not want to replace democracy, but rather
       to end universal suffrage and hence return to what can
       accurately be called traditional democracy:
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Origins
       [quote]excluded women, slaves, foreigners
       (μέτοικοι / métoikoi),
       and youths below the age of military service.[/quote]
       #Post#: 10097--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 13, 2021, 8:37 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Because Hungary is democratic, Orban came to power in Hungary.
       Because France is also democratic, Orban can also influence who
       takes power in France at no extra cost to Hungary:
  HTML https://www.yahoo.com/news/frances-macron-pay-tribute-orban-112040155.html
       [quote]BUDAPEST/PARIS (Reuters) - President Emmanuel Macron said
       on Monday France was willing to "work together for Europe" with
       Hungary despite the countries' political differences, striking a
       conciliatory note as Paris prepares to take over the European
       Union's presidency.
       ...
       Macron wants other EU states to support the priorities he has
       set for France's six-month presidency of the bloc starting in
       January, including better protection and control of EU borders.
       ...
       Orban has in the past two months received far-right leaders
       Marine Le Pen and Eric Zemmour, who are candidates in France's
       presidential election next year in which Macron is expected to
       seek a second term.
       Both praised Orban's opposition to immigration, and Zemmour
       hailed his defence of "his country's identity, sovereignty and
       borders."[/quote]
       A stronger country being pressured to follow a weaker country's
       unethical policies is something that only happens under
       democracy.
       #Post#: 10321--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Western Democracy
       By: Zea_mays Date: December 29, 2021, 8:41 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Here are some quotes from the Constitutional Convention of 1787,
       where the US Constitution was debated and later accepted.
       Many of the framers of the Constitution understood very clearly
       that democracy was an oppressive system of government, but
       ironically, they had to acquiesce to the tyrannical will of the
       majority of citizens and went through with ratifying it anyway.
       (Also...their "check and balance" in the Legislative branch
       against unrestrained democracy? The Senate... Which has been one
       of the most corrupt branches of the government for literal
       centuries.)
       [quote]Our chief danger arises from the democratic parts of our
       constitutions. It is a maxim which I hold incontrovertible, that
       the powers of government exercised by the people swallows up the
       other branches. None of the constitutions have provided
       sufficient checks against the democracy.
       -Edmund Randolph.[/quote]
       [quote]The evils we experience flow from the excess of
       democracy. The people do not want virtue; but are the dupes of
       pretended patriots. In Massts. it has been fully confirmed by
       experience that they are daily misled into the most baneful
       measures and opinions by the false reports circulated by
       designing men, and which no one on the spot can refute.
       -Elbridge Gerry.[/quote]
       [quote]We are not indeed constituting a British Government, but
       a more dangerous monarchy, an elective one. We are introducing a
       new principle into our system, and not necessary as in the
       British Govt. where the Executive has greater rights to defend.
       Do gentlemen mean to pave the way to hereditary Monarchy? Do
       they flatter themselves that the people will ever consent to
       such an innovation? If they do I venture to tell them, they are
       mistaken. The people never will consent. And do gentlemen
       consider the danger of delay, and the still greater danger of a
       a rejection not for a moment but forever, of the plan which
       shall be proposed to them. Notwithstanding the oppressions &
       injustice experienced among us from democracy; the genius of the
       people is in favor of it, and the genius of the people must be
       consulted. He could not but consider the federal system as in
       effect dissolved by the appointment of this Convention to devise
       a better one. And do gentlemen look forward to the dangerous
       interval between the extinction of an old, and the establishment
       of a new Governmt. and to the scenes of confusion which may
       ensue. He hoped that nothing like a monarchy would ever be
       attempted in this Country. A hatred to its oppressions had
       carried the people through the late Revolution. Will it not be
       eno’ to enable the Executive to suspend offensive laws, till
       they shall be coolly revised, and the objections to them
       overruled by a greater majority than was required in the first
       instance. He never could agree to give up all the rights of the
       people to a single Magistrate. If more than one had been fixed
       on, greater powers might have been entrusted to the Executive.
       He hoped this attempt to give such powers would have its weight
       hereafter 〈as an argument〉 for increasing the
       number of the Executive.
       -notes on George Mason's speech.[/quote]
       (Even though Mason acknowledged a democratic government was more
       dangerous than the British monarchy which had oppressed
       Americans, he thought it was ok for democracy to be implemented
       anyway...)
       [quote]This was the only defence agst. the inconveniences of
       democracy consistent with the democratic form of Govt. All
       civilized Societies would be divided into different Sects,
       Factions, & interests, as they happened to consist of rich &
       poor, debtors & creditors, the landed the manufacturing, the
       commercial interests, the inhabitants of this district, or that
       district, the followers of this political leader or that
       political leader, the disciples of this religious sect or that
       religious sect. In all cases where a majority are united by a
       common interest or passion, the rights of the minority are in
       danger. What motives are to restrain them? A prudent regard to
       the maxim that honesty is the best policy is found by experience
       to be as little regarded by bodies of men as by individuals.
       Respect for character is always diminished in proportion to the
       number among whom the blame or praise is to be divided.
       Conscience, the only remaining tie is known to be inadequate in
       individuals: In large numbers, little is to be expected from it.
       Besides, Religion itself may become a motive to persecution &
       oppression. — These observations are verified by the Histories
       of every Country antient & modern.
       [...]
       The lesson we are to draw from the whole is that where a
       majority are united by a common sentiment and have an
       opportunity, the rights of the minor party become insecure. In a
       Republican Govt. the Majority if united have always an
       opportunity. The only remedy is to enlarge the sphere, & thereby
       divide the community into so great a number of interests &
       parties, that in the 1st. place a majority will not be likely at
       the same moment to have a common interest separate from that of
       the whole or of the minority; and in the 2d. place, that in case
       they shd. have such an interest, they may not be apt to unite in
       the pursuit of it. It was incumbent on us then to try this
       remedy, and with that view to frame a republican system on such
       a scale & in such a form as will controul all the evils wch.
       have been experienced.
       -James Madison's argument in defense of democracy[/quote]
       (Spoiler alert, this "remedy" has failed. Can we revise our
       system of government to one which actually is able to stop
       oppression now?)
       [quote]The error was now seen by every one. The members most
       tenacious of republicanism, he observed, were as loud as any in
       declaiming agst. the vices of democracy. ... Give all power to
       the many, they will oppress the few. Give all power to the few
       they will oppress the many. Both therefore ought to have power,
       that each may defend itself agst. the other. ... No temporary
       Senate will have firmness en’o’ to answer the purpose. ... They
       suppose Seven years a sufficient period to give the Senate an
       adequate firmness, from not duly considering the amazing
       violence & turbulence of the democratic spirit. When a great
       object of Govt. is pursued, which seizes the popular passions,
       they spread like wild fire, and become irresistable. ... As to
       the Executive, it seemed to be admitted that no good one could
       be established on Republican principles. Was not this giving up
       the merits of the question; for can there be a good Govt.
       without a good Executive. The English model was the only good
       one on this subject. The Hereditary interest of the King was so
       interwoven with that of the Nation, and his personal emoluments
       so great, that he was placed above the danger of being corrupted
       from abroad — and at the same time was both sufficiently
       independent and sufficiently controuled, to answer the purpose
       of the institution at home. one of the weak sides of Republics
       was their being liable to foreign influence & corruption. Men of
       little character, acquiring great power become easily the tools
       of intermedling neibours.
       -notes on Alexander Hamilton's speech[/quote]
       Alexander Hamilton believed the President, Senate, and judges
       should serve for life "during periods of good behavior". But he
       was Eurocentric and admired the British system of government,
       and therefore was still trapped within the democratic mindset...
       After the Constitutional Convention accepted the Constitution
       and sent it to the state governments to debate on, Hamilton was
       one of the Constitution's primary defenders in the series of
       essays called The Federalist Papers, despite his own proposals
       for government being rejected...
       [quote]But is this a Republican Govt. it will be asked? Yes, if
       all the Magistrates are appointed, and vacancies are filled, by
       the people, or a process of election originating with the
       people.
       [...]
       II The Assembly to consist of persons elected by the people to
       serve for three years.
       III. The Senate to consist of persons elected to serve during
       good behaviour; their election to be made by electors chosen for
       that purpose by the people: in order to this the States to be
       divided into election districts. On the death, removal or
       resignation of any Senator his place to be filled out of the
       district from which he came.[/quote]
       If local community members are allowed to nominate individuals
       for vacancies, and give their reasoning as to why their nominee
       is qualified, then would this not satisfy all the positive
       things that "representative" democracies claim they wish to
       accomplish? Appointments would of course be made by a governor
       or qualified committee, who would vet the individuals nominated
       by the general public, as well as be able to nominate candidates
       themselves if the public does not nominate anyone who is
       qualified.
       I think I read a comment by a communist somewhere who claimed
       this was similar to how the "Democratic People's Republic" of
       North Korea theoretically appoints local government officials?
       Voting for qualified electors who then chose politicians is the
       original purpose of the Electoral College. Originally, people
       did not vote for the president at all. They only voted for
       electors, who were knowledgeable individuals in the local
       community, who then deliberated amongst themselves to pick the
       most qualified individual to be president. This "check and
       balance" against democracy has also failed, since the electors
       are just a ceremonial holdover who are beholden to their state's
       popular vote (which has the consequence of amplifying Republican
       power)...
       [quote]But 〈he〉 sees the Union dissolving or
       already dissolved — he sees evils operating in the States which
       must soon cure the people of their fondness for democracies — he
       sees that a great progress has been already made & is still
       going on in the public mind. He thinks therefore that the people
       will in time be unshackled from their prejudices; and whenever
       that happens, they will themselves not be satisfied at stopping
       where the plan of Mr. R. wd. place them, but be ready to go as
       far at least as he proposes.
       -notes on Alexander Hamilton's speech[/quote]
       After 250 years of democratic failures and multiple bouts of
       "dissolving", perhaps the people are almost ready to unshackle
       their pro-democratic prejudices and accept an autocratic form of
       government which actually upholds justice? Less than 100 years
       ago Germany and many other nations were fed up enough with
       democracy to try something different. In fact, many in the US
       were about ready to do the same:
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_dictatorship#Media_support
       Maybe if Hamilton wasn't such a Britophile elitist, his plan
       would have gained more traction:
       [quote]I believe the British government forms the best model the
       world ever produced, and such has been its progress in the minds
       of the many, that this truth gradually gains ground. This
       government has for its object public strength and individual
       security. It is said with us to be unattainable. If it was once
       formed it would maintain itself. All communities divide
       themselves into the few and the many. The first are the rich and
       well born, the other the mass of the people. The voice of the
       people has been said to be the voice of God; and however
       generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not
       true in fact. The people are turbulent and changing; they seldom
       judge or determine right. Give therefore to the first class a
       distinct, permanent share in the government. They will check the
       unsteadiness of the second, and as they cannot receive any
       advantage by a change, they therefore will ever maintain good
       government. Can a democratic assembly, who annually revolve in
       the mass of the people, be supposed steadily to pursue the
       public good? Nothing but a permanent body can check the
       imprudence of democracy. Their turbulent and uncontrouling
       disposition requires checks. ... It is admitted that you cannot
       have a good executive upon a democratic plan. See the excellency
       of the British executive — He is placed above temptation — He
       can have no distinct interests from the public welfare. Nothing
       short of such an executive can be efficient.
       [...]
       But the people are gradually ripening in their opinions of
       government — they begin to be tired of an excess of
       democracy[/quote]
       ...Hamilton was so close.
       [quote]Gentlemen say we need to be rescued from the democracy.
       But what the means proposed?
       A democratic assembly is to be checked by a democratic senate,
       and both these by a democratic chief magistrate.
       The end will not be answered — the means will not be equal to
       the object.
       It will, therefore, be feeble and inefficient.
       -excerpt from Hamilton's notes on his speech[/quote]
       #Post#: 10520--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Eric Zemmour
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 11, 2022, 9:10 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Zemmour the democrat:
  HTML https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-minority-propaganda-french-schools-172722683.html
       [quote]No to "minority propaganda" in French schools,
       far-right's Zemmour says
       PARIS (Reuters) - French far-right candidate Eric Zemmour on
       Monday attacked anti-racist and anti-homophobia groups in
       schools, saying they were brainwashing pupils, as he urged a
       return to a more conservative education system.
       ...
       "Over the past 40 years, our children have been indoctrinated,"
       Zemmour, who has been convicted for inciting racial hatred, told
       reporters. "Schools cannot be the place where LGBT and
       anti-racism ideologies brainwash our children."[/quote]
       This is why leftism is incompatible with democracy. How much
       longer will it take False Leftists see something so obvious?
       [quote]Zemmour, 63, is socially conservative, against gay
       marriage, and has said his presidential bid was aimed at "saving
       France from decadence.[/quote]
       Also Zemmour:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/non-aryan-infidelity/msg9944/#msg9944
       *****************************************************
   DIR Previous Page
   DIR Next Page