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#Post#: 22739--------------------------------------------------
Opinions of Gay People on Palestine and Islam
By: SirGalahad Date: October 12, 2023, 10:04 pm
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@90sRetroFan Every time the conflict between Israel and
Palestine reignites, there are always a few gay people that
aren’t so enthusiastic to support Palestine, since they say that
it’s dangerous to be openly gay in most of the Muslim world, but
being gay in Israel is much safer. Taking it at complete face
value, I can’t really deny their logic, and I understand why
they would feel that way. The “Middle East” really is one of the
worst places to be gay. It would be easy for me to support
non-secular resistance groups in places like Palestine since I’m
not gay, but how much would my opinion change if I were? I’m
sure if I met many of these people in person, they would treat
me much differently and far less cordially if I WERE gay.
Granted, I think that if America for example had refrained from
starting and supporting wars in the Middle East, and refrained
from promoting sexual hedonism, emphasizing that the romantic
aspect of these relationships is what we’re respecting, then gay
“rights” in Muslim countries would be in a much better place.
Because I feel like a lot of the homophobia is partially
reactionary in nature. America terrorizes their country, and
America simultaneously respects gay people, therefore they
conclude that being gay must also be bad. If we had supported
them from the beginning, then maybe their opinion on gay people
would have significantly softened, and they would’ve adopted the
general American attitude on it. But what-ifs don’t really have
much effect on the present
#Post#: 22741--------------------------------------------------
Re: Opinions of Gay People on Palestine and Islam
By: Apartheid Date: October 12, 2023, 10:45 pm
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(Not answering for 90sRF, just had never heard your question
worded that way before and got me to thinking as well).
Great points! Hadn't even thought of it that way myself. I also
think there is a difference between what Muslim leadership in
the Middle-East actually feels in regards to these issues, and
what the average Muslim on the street feels about these issues?
I am certainly no expert, but here is an example of what I am
trying to say:
[quote]Transgender rights in Iran are limited, with a narrow
degree of official recognition of transgender identities by the
government, but with trans individuals facing very high levels
of discrimination, from the law, the state, and from the wider
society.[citation needed]
...
Pre-1979
There is evidence of third genders existing in civilisations in
the region that is now Iran dating back thousands of years. A
2018 study of burial sites at Teppe Hasanlu found that around
20% of the tombs did not conform to a binary gender-divided
distribution of artifacts or showed signs of the buried having
performed masculine roles while wearing feminine dressing (or
vice-versa). A bowl at the site was also discovered depicting a
bearded man wearing female clothing shown sitting on the floor,
a position that was usually reserved for women in the local
iconography.[7]
Surgery for intersex conditions have been practiced in Iran
since the 1930s.[8]: 252 [9]: 25 [10] In
1963, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini wrote a book in which he
stated that there was no religious restriction on corrective
surgery for intersex individuals, though this did not apply to
those without physical ambiguity in sex organs. At the time
Khomeini was a radical, anti-Shah revolutionary and his fatwas
did not carry any weight with the Imperial government, which did
not have any specific policies regarding transgender
individuals.[1]
... [/quote]
Entire article:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_rights_in_Iran#References
#Post#: 22743--------------------------------------------------
Re: Opinions of Gay People on Palestine and Islam
By: 90sRetroFan Date: October 13, 2023, 12:31 am
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You raised a similar point back here:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/jews-have-nothing-in-common-with-us!/msg7358/#msg7358
to which I responded that one of our tasks is to raise awareness
that pre-colonial Muslim countries were not homophobic, and that
it was Western colonization itself which caused them to become
homophobic:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/jews-have-nothing-in-common-with-us!/msg7373/#msg7373
This task is still ongoing. If you would like to contribute to
it, you are welcome to do so.
(The same also applies to other formerly colonized countries
which were not homophobic prior to Western colonization:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/legal-decolonization/msg15255/#msg15255
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/legal-decolonization/msg17454/#msg17454<br
/>)
"being gay in Israel is much safer"
HTML https://bdsmovement.net/pinkwashing
"I feel like a lot of the homophobia is partially reactionary in
nature. America terrorizes their country, and America
simultaneously respects gay people, therefore they conclude that
being gay must also be bad. If we had supported them from the
beginning, then maybe their opinion on gay people would have
significantly softened, and they would’ve adopted the general
American attitude on it. But what-ifs don’t really have much
effect on the present"
This is is why I keep recommending that they view the US as two
countries: Red vs Blue. Which terrorizes their country more?
Answer: Red. Which respects "gay" people more? Answer: Blue.
Therefore it is the more homophobic part of the US which is also
more Islamophobic, and the less homophobic part of the US which
is also less Islamophobic.
Currently, Red is rooting for Israel whereas at least part of
Blue is rooting for Palestine. In other words, the more
homophobic part of the US is the most pro-Israel, whereas the
less homophobic part of the US is more pro-Palestine. This is
how we need to encourage them to see the picture.
HTML https://taz.de/picture/4847277/948/Israel-Antisemitismus-BDS-1.jpeg
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