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#Post#: 12711--------------------------------------------------
Re: China and United States Relations
DIR By: rp
Date: April 11, 2022, 1:10 am
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"Confucianist values"
This is interesting. I thought Confucianism, being a form of
non-western traditionalism, would necessarily make it hostile to
Western/Eurocentric ideology. But I have always wondered if it
was possible for non-Western traditionalism to merge with
Western Civilization. Perhaps someone else could comment on
this?
"Mao"
Mao was ultimately a Westerner who followed the doctrines of his
fellow Westerner Karl Marx (Jew) and was friends with other
Westerners such as Richard Nixon (Gentile), Henry Kissinger
(Jew) and Joseph Stailn (Jew?). I would not consider Mao an
anti-traditionalist because he did not attack Western tradition,
which was literally oppressing China for several centuries (see
Russian colonialism, Opium Wars, etc.) nearly as much as he
attacked Confucianism.
"I've never been to China so maybe there's a latent potential
there that just doesn't manage to make its presence known from
what we hear abroad"
Good point. Note that the main people promoting the meme that
China is following "Confucianist values" are people like Steve
Bannon (Gentile). I think 90sRetroFan should comment on this
because he seems to understand China the most on this forum.
#Post#: 12712--------------------------------------------------
Re: China and United States Relations
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: April 11, 2022, 2:31 am
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"I thought Confucianism, being a form of non-western
traditionalism, would necessarily make it hostile to
Western/Eurocentric ideology. But I have always wondered if it
was possible for non-Western traditionalism to merge with
Western Civilization."
I suspect Confucius would have gotten along rather well with
Aristotle and/or Moses had he met them. All three are virtue
theorists (ie. believe in torturing children to crush their
Original Nobility). All three are advocates of
moderation/temparance. All three are anthropocentrists. All
three are sexists. The list goes on. On the other hand,
Confucius was not a progressive, unlike the other two.
Therefore, all that the merger would require to be successful is
Confucianist adoption of progressivism. Oh wait:
HTML https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-featured-chinese-embassy-093000344.html
"I would not consider Mao an anti-traditionalist because he did
not attack Western tradition, which was literally oppressing
China for several centuries (see Russian colonialism, Opium
Wars, etc.) nearly as much as he attacked Confucianism."
You are correct. Mao was a progressive who mainly attacked
Confucianism's lack of progressivism.
"latent potential"
Zea_mays sees hope in the Lying Flat subculture:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/simple-living-movements/msg7613/#msg7613
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/simple-living-movements/msg7671/#msg7671
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/simple-living-movements/msg10810/#msg10810
I agree at least that this would be where the less Westernized
Chinese are likely to be found. It is too early to tell whether
Lying Flat alone can de-Westernize China, or whether we will
need to upgrade them to something else, but they if anyone will
be the ones doing whatever needs to be done.
I myself still hope China can be inspired by the wuxia genre.
Unfortunately wuxia itself has already been corrupted by Western
influence, so I am not optimistic that future generations will
understand what authentic wuxia is supposed to be like:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg7648/#msg7648
#Post#: 12715--------------------------------------------------
Re: China and United States Relations
DIR By: rp
Date: April 11, 2022, 2:56 am
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"Therefore, all that the merger would require to be successful
is Confucianist adoption of progressivism."
What I think is that those who were most inclined toward
Confucianist traditionalism in the first place (i.e. Gentiles)
would also be the first to adopt progressivism given that they
are also Eurocentrists.
But I would still say it is not the ideology that is to blame
for the westernization of China, but its adherents. Otherwise, I
believe this could open up a whole can of worms where we have to
take down non-Western traditionalist civilizations in order to
take down the West, whereupon we implicitly concede that
non-Western traditionalist civilizations, while not perfect, are
"just as bad" (!) as Western Civilization. But then again, you
have mentioned how at the end of the day, even non-Western
supremacists (i.e. Turanists) end up benefiting Eurocentrism, so
this should not be a problem, so long as our criticism of
Confucianism (in the context of Western Civilization) sticks to
how the ideology helped propagate the inferior Gentile (i.e.
Fuxishi), and hence ultimately Eurocentric, bloodlines.
Outside the context of Western Civilizaton, however, I am more
than happy to bash Confucianist traditionalism as a product of
Huaxia blood memory, as part of our broader anti-Turanist
Aryanism:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaxia
--- Quote ---
> According to Confucianist Kong Yingda's "True Meaning of
Chunqiu Zuo zhuan", xià (夏) "grand" signified the
"greatness" (大) in the ceremonial etiquettes of the
central states, while huá (華) "flowery" was used in
reference to the "beauty" (美) in the clothing that those
states' denizens wore.[c][9][10][11]
--- End Quote ---
EDIT: I just remembered this comment on Aryanism.net that is
relevant to this subject:
HTML http://aryanism.net/blog/anthony/democracy-and-individualism/comment-page-1/#comment-31277
--- Quote ---
>
> “Gentiles are only impressed by leaders who embrace and affirm
the values of the group. They are averse to a reformer because
reform suggests the possibility that their values and beliefs
are flawed. They will not listen to such a leader no matter how
good his ideas are.”
>
> In my assessment of history, many Gentiles are willing to
listen to reformers provided the reformers are more
technologically advanced than themselves. In Gentile eyes,
technology is simply power, so they will reform if reform is
what it takes for their tribe to get their hands on the
technology and through it become more powerful. After they
possess the technology, they often slowly slip back to their old
ways. (We see the same thing going on with people who become
vegan for health reasons. In their eyes, not eating animal
products is simply “longevity technology”, and only until a
different health fad comes along.)
>
> Whereas Aryans in the past made the naive error of assuming
that Gentiles willing to reform were being sincere (in reality,
Gentiles weren’t interested in farming, they were just
interested in its economic advantages!), Jews figured out the
Gentile mentality and became adept at herding Gentiles using the
offer of technology.
>
> “So ‘individualism’ should refer to the Gentile interpretation
of individualism i.e. arrogance, being a rebel without a cause,
not cooperating, the laissez-faire attitude, equality etc.,
while ‘characterism’ or something like that should be the Aryan
interpretation – which involves working as a team, judging
people based on quality etc. This is a good idea.”
>
> I think we have invested too much effort in promoting the
overwhelming importance of the “individual personality” in
relation to Fuehrerprinzip to switch terms now. The concern that
“individuality” might be linked with selfishness is already
countered by our simultaneous emphasis on “service” as opposed
to “indulgence”. The strength of the term “indulgence” is that
it brings out that selfishness can be collective as well as
individual, each no better than the other.
>
> In any case, Gentile propaganda sites are the ones which
complain the loudest about “individualism”, so if we were to
complain about it also, it would weaken the contrast between
Gentiles and ourselves.
>
> In short, I think the original post title “How democracy is
anti-individualistic” is fine as it is and does not require
changing.
>
> @Decebal
>
> “Then we have “character”, ultimately from Greek, meaning
“engraved mark”, and could be used from now on to refer to
Aryans”
>
> NO. This idea of character, which as you correctly point out
means “engraved mark” is the version promoted by Aristotelian
virtue theory, based on the idea that age and worldly experience
build character. This is in direct opposition to our worldview
that age and worldly experience corrupt Original Nobility. To
engrave a mark onto the soul is to deface it.
>
--- End Quote ---
So it could be that the Fuxishi Gentiles, who worship Giants for
their superior technology, found progressivism more attractive
than Confuciuan traditionalism, and merely decided to merge
their existing traditionalist worldview with the Western
"reformist" (progressivist) worldview. What do you think?
"Oh wait"
HTML https://nypost.com/2021/12/16/elon-musk-lookalike-dubbed-yi-long-musk-stuns-fans/
[spoiler]
[img width=1280
height=853]
HTML https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/12/chinese-elon-musk2.jpg?quality=75&strip=all[/img][/spoiler]
#Post#: 12716--------------------------------------------------
Re: China and United States Relations
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: April 11, 2022, 3:46 am
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"those who were most inclined toward Confucianist traditionalism
in the first place (i.e. Gentiles)"
This is not what we theorized in Aryan Diffusion Part 2. We
noted:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingnan_culture#Culture_of_distance_from_Confucius
--- Quote ---
> It has been noted that Cantonese culture is traditionally
marked by a "culture of distance from Confucius" (Jyutping:
Jyun5 jyu4 man4 faa3; Traditional Chinese:
遠儒文化, literally "culture of distance
from Confucius"),[49] which may be related to Lingnan
historically being a fringe region of the Chinese Empire and
influence from Tang dynasty (who placed greater emphasis on
Taoism and Buddhism than Confucianism): While Confucian
philosophy still has its deep influence on Cantonese culture,
Confucius Temples are harder to find in Lingnan than Buddhist or
Taoist ones.
--- End Quote ---
In contrast:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Confucianism
--- Quote ---
> Korean Confucianism is the form of Confucianism that emerged
and developed in Korea. One of the most substantial influences
in Korean intellectual history was the introduction of Confucian
thought as part of the cultural influence from China.
>
> Today the legacy of Confucianism remains a fundamental part of
Korean society, shaping the moral system, the way of life,
social relations between old and young, high culture, and is the
basis for much of the legal system.
--- End Quote ---
Gentile blood is just as common in the south, yet Turanian blood
is rarer in the south. Our speculation was that those most
inclined towards Confucianism would be those with significant
Turanian blood:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/blood-memory/msg11975/#msg11975
(We also noted in the past the frequent positive reviews of
Confucianism by Jews.)
"Confucianist traditionalism as a product of Huaxia blood
memory"
Exactly. But recall Aryan Diffusion Part 2:
--- Quote ---
> Confucianism was a formalization of Huaxia tradition drawing
on what was by now a harmonized Fuxishi-Turanian hybrid blood
memory
--- End Quote ---
"So it could be that the Fuxishi Gentiles, who worship Giants
for their superior technology, found progressivism more
attractive than Confuciuan traditionalism, and merely decided to
merge their existing traditionalist worldview with the Western
"reformist" (progressivist) worldview. What do you think?"
This could be the case. It makes more sense for those who were
never the most dedicated Confucianists to be the ones most ready
to merge it with something new.
#Post#: 12717--------------------------------------------------
Re: China and United States Relations
DIR By: rp
Date: April 11, 2022, 4:01 am
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"This could be the case. It makes more sense for those who were
never the most **** (hardc*re?) Confucianists to be the ones
most ready to merge it with something new."
So what we have are those Confucianists with predominantly
Fuxishi blood memory (as opposed to Huaxia blood memory)
adopting progressivism as an alternative to Confucianism.
#Post#: 12718--------------------------------------------------
Re: China and United States Relations
DIR By: rp
Date: April 11, 2022, 4:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
" unless China gets another autocratic, anti-traditional leader
that manages to do a better job at uprooting the thousands of
years of embedded Confucianist culture"
I'm not sure about being anti-traditional, but China did have an
autocratic leader who at the very least tried to uproot Western
traditionalism by being the first head of state to implement
state control over reproduction:
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Deng_Xiaoping_and_Jimmy_Carter_at_the_arrival_ceremony_for_the_Vice_Premier_of_China._-_NARA_-_183157-restored%28cropped%29%282%29.jpg
Unfortunately, Deng did not put in place sufficient
anti-(Western)traditionalist measures to eradicate the
bloodlines (which had existed for thousands of years) that
allowed Western tradition to proliferate through the merger of
their Confucianist worldview with progressivism. Perhaps someone
would have picked up from where he left off, but 9/11 buried
that chance.
#Post#: 12719--------------------------------------------------
Re: China and United States Relations
DIR By: Zhang Caizhi
Date: April 11, 2022, 8:43 am
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I read that Deng supported the idea of term limits and
retirement for senior leadership with the Constitution of the
People's Republic of China 1982, which was just eliminated by Xi
only for president, and vice-president of China.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China
#Post#: 12736--------------------------------------------------
Re: China and United States Relations
DIR By: rp
Date: April 11, 2022, 4:19 pm
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@SirGalahad
Here is another video from the Westerner in which he compares
China to Nazi Germany, and refutes the comparisons between China
and the Soviet Union:
HTML https://youtu.be/wD53MEbLDIE
I actually agree with his assessment. China has adopted a
fascist governance/economic model thanks to Deng. The question
is how long it will take Eurocentrist degenerates like Xi to
flush Deng's legacy down the toilet.
#Post#: 12874--------------------------------------------------
Re: China and United States Relations
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: April 17, 2022, 8:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://finance.yahoo.com/news/chinese-diplomats-urge-harvard-audience-093000599.html
--- Quote ---
> US leaders and lawmakers should focus on improving China-US
relations and building trust rather than listening to
"narrow-minded" Americans keen to blame outsiders, senior
Chinese diplomats said Saturday.
--- End Quote ---
Let me fix this:
American leaders and lawmakers should focus on improving
China-US relations and building trust rather than listening to
"narrow-minded" Westerners keen to blame outsiders, senior
Chinese diplomats said Saturday.
--- Quote ---
> "The most important event in the next 50 years will be for
China and the US to find a way to get along with each other,"
Huang said. "Do not learn from spiders who make their own webs
but bees who make their own honey together."
--- End Quote ---
I agree, but bees who make honey together serve the same queen.
Who would this be in the case of China and the US? The correct
answer is anti-Western sentiment. This must be made explicit,
something which is not yet happening.
--- Quote ---
> The senior Chinese diplomats said future ties between the
world's largest developing country and the world's largest
developed nation are inextricably linked, with more that binds
than divides. This includes two-way trade of US$750 billion,
investment of US$240 billion, extensive people-to-people ties
and a shared interest in tackling global terrorism, financial
instability and climate change.
--- End Quote ---
Which civilization is responsible for global terrorism,
financial stability and climate change? The correct answer is
Western civilization. This must be said openly by anyone who
sincerely wants to tackle these problems.
#Post#: 12969--------------------------------------------------
Re: China and United States Relations
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: April 21, 2022, 9:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/08/briefing/china-russia-xi-jinping-vladimir-putin.html
--- Quote ---
> China’s Russia Problem
> ...
> Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has complicated it. The war is
arguably the most problematic international development for
China in years.
>
> It has unified much of the rest of the world — including the
U.S., the E.U., Britain and Japan — in support of Ukraine, with
a diplomatic boldness that these countries have often lacked in
recent years. China’s leaders, on the other hand, are in a
partnership with the world’s new villain, Vladimir Putin.
> ...
> the China-Russia relationship also has its limits and
tensions. The two countries compete for influence, in Asia and
elsewhere, and have fundamentally different diplomatic
strategies.
>
> China is trying to shape and lead the existing world order.
“It benefits enormously from international stability,” Fareed
Zakaria, the foreign-policy journalist, has pointed out. As The
Times’s Thomas Friedman wrote, “Peace has been very good for
China.”
>
> Russia is both weaker and less satisfied with the recent
developments. “Putin may dream of restoring Soviet-era
greatness,” Paul Krugman wrote yesterday, “but China’s economy,
which was roughly the same size as Russia’s 30 years ago, is now
10 times as large.” Today, Russia’s economy largely revolves
around energy exports, giving it an incentive to foment
political instability; oil prices often go up when the world is
unstable.
>
> “Putin is sort of an arsonist of the system,” Hass said.
“China’s interests are not advanced by that.”
> ...
> The war in Ukraine evidently surprised Chinese officials, at
least in its scope. “They did not anticipate a full-scale
invasion,” said Yun Sun, director of the China program at the
Stimson Center, a think tank.
--- End Quote ---
They are fools who assumed Russia thinks like China does. It
does not.
--- Quote ---
> “Xi’s growing alignment with Moscow presents something of a
Catch-22 for China,” Jude Blanchette and Bonny Lin wrote in
Foreign Affairs. “As it competes with the West over global
order, Russia becomes a more attractive security partner. But by
elevating the relationship with Russia — and choosing to do so
in the middle of a Putin-provoked crisis — Beijing is inviting
pushback it can ill afford.”
--- End Quote ---
China would not need Russia as a security partner if it had the
US as a security partner. But in order to imagine this
possibility, China must learn to see that the US does not have
to be part of the West.
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