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#Post#: 19392--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why You All Suck
By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 10, 2023, 2:00 am
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"I no longer agree with their idea that the Neolithic
agricultural lifestyle led to the birth of a race of superior
people. In fact, I think the opposite is true – that agriculture
caused degradation of the human genome. Humans have essentially
been domesticated and this is not a good thing."
"It’s much easier for small bands of hunter-gatherers to avoid
conflict and maintain equilibrium with their environment"
"Pre-agricultural people were in control of their environment
and their own destiny. People in hierarchical societies are
controlled by their rulers."
Therefore you are by definition not an Aryanist (or a National
Socialist, given the anti-Fuehrerprinzip third statement), but
an explicitly anti-Aryanist Gentilist.
And to the extent that you, an anti-Aryanist, feel intuitively
closer to Ascesis (self-proclaimed "Aryanist") than to me
(founder), should leave in no doubt whose version of Aryanism is
the authentic one.
"I’m not fanatically anti-Western like the people on here. I
would have no problem with America being one of the
superpowers."
It is possible to be fanatically anti-Western while being
pro-American. Our entire geopolitical plan revolves around
ensuring America remains one of the superpowers but merely
turning anti-Western! This is why we keep highlighting the
contrast between Western and American aesthetics:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/counterculture-and-western-civilisation/msg10112/#msg10112
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/counterculture-and-western-civilisation/msg10239/#msg10239
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/counterculture-and-western-civilisation/msg10255/#msg10255
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/counterculture-and-western-civilisation/msg14902/#msg14902
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/counterculture-and-western-civilisation/msg17162/#msg17162
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/counterculture-and-western-civilisation/msg18363/#msg18363
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/counterculture-and-western-civilisation/msg18391/#msg18391
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/counterculture-and-western-civilisation/msg18904/#msg18904
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg929/#msg929
etc..
I do agree, however, that you are not anti-Western. Your view
that domesticated humans are bad is implicitly a pro-Western
one:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_empire
[quote]A developed hydraulic civilization maintains control over
its population by means of controlling the supply of water. The
term was coined by the German-American historian Karl August
Wittfogel (1896–1988), in his book Oriental Despotism: A
Comparative Study of Total Power (1957). Wittfogel asserted that
such "hydraulic civilizations"—although they were neither all
located in the Orient nor characteristic of all Oriental
societies—were essentially different from those of the Western
world.
...
The typical hydraulic empire government, in Wittfogel's thesis,
is extremely centralized, with no trace of an independent
aristocracy – in contrast to the decentralized feudalism of
medieval Europe.[/quote]
See also:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/aryan-hydraulic-empire/
#Post#: 19401--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why You All Suck
By: Follower of Arya Date: May 10, 2023, 4:20 am
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[quote author=FRG_03 link=topic=1853.msg19349#msg19349
date=1683646263]
So "Follower of Arya" what are YOU going to do about it?
Everyone who has come here to complain haven't explained their
solutions, just attack. If you aren't subverters why don't you
help the people you supposedly agree with instead of insulting
and appealing to virtueism?
[/quote]
Well for one I’m not sitting on the internet posting news
articles all day and waiting for democracy to win for us. Opsec
is important for those who are actually serious about taking
action, we aren’t just going to talk about it on an exposed
forum where anyone can see it and report it. We aren’t LARPers.
(Do you people seriously not see the problem in having a network
so exposed that people can’t actually discuss their activities
from fear of legal intervention or punishment?)
And Ascesis is offering help. That’s why they came here.
[quote]So, order the leftist to get armed for defense and
counter-attack, simple...[/quote]
So you just… order the leftist? You don’t recruit them, train
them, fund or build their equipment, prepare intentional
communities to protect yourselves and receive the refugees who
survive?
This is what we mean by LARPing: none of you have any actual
clue of how to recruit and build a defence force. You think that
it’s ‘simple’. You think it’s just (other people) rocking up
with a gun and taking some lucky hits.
Good luck to you all.
#Post#: 19403--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why You All Suck
By: Junito18 Date: May 10, 2023, 5:37 am
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"Therefore you are by definition not an Aryanist (or a National
Socialist, given the anti-Fuehrerprinzip third statement), but
an explicitly anti-Aryanist Gentilist. "
You're not an "Aryanist" by your original definition either if
you're now classifying people by geographic origin. As I said
before, which ethnicity is "Aryan"? Do you also think it's the
Capybara?
"And to the extent that you, an anti-Aryanist, feel intuitively
closer to Ascesis (self-proclaimed "Aryanist") than to me
(founder), should leave in no doubt whose version of Aryanism is
the authentic one."
The authentic Aryanism is the ideology developed by the 20th
century German dictator Adolf Hitler. You know, the man who said
"It was the Jews who brought the negro to the Rhine. The motive
behind this is clear and his intention is always the same. He
wants to destroy the hated white race through bastardization. He
continues to bring negroes in as a flood and force the mixing of
races." No wonder your movement has made no progress in a
decade. Saying that National socialism is non-racist is a pretty
fucking indefensible position when there are quotes like that.
Now, who is the authentic anti-racist - you, who feels close to
Adolf Hitler, or me, who does not?
#Post#: 19405--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why You All Suck
By: antihellenistic Date: May 10, 2023, 9:16 am
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[quote]The authentic Aryanism is the ideology developed by the
20th century German dictator Adolf Hitler. You know, the man who
said "It was the Jews who brought the negro to the Rhine. The
motive behind this is clear and his intention is always the
same. He wants to destroy the hated white race through
bastardization. He continues to bring negroes in as a flood and
force the mixing of races." No wonder your movement has made no
progress in a decade. Saying that National socialism is
non-racist is a pretty **** indefensible position when there are
quotes like that.
Now, who is the authentic anti-racist - you, who feels close to
Adolf Hitler, or me, who does not?[/quote]
This is the answer, we already discuss it for years. :
1.
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/hitler-the-face-of-anti-tribalism/
2.
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/racial-view-of-western-philosopher-from-john-locke-to-karl-marx/
[quote]Now, who is the authentic anti-racist - you, who feels
close to Adolf Hitler, or me, who does not?[/quote]
Still us who are authentically "anti-racist", your worldview
support continuous technological advancement which suitable for
racialist people. Jews of Israel are the best example of people
who bear similar vision with you
#Post#: 19406--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why You All Suck
By: christianbethel Date: May 10, 2023, 11:16 am
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[quote author=Junito18 link=topic=1853.msg19403#msg19403
date=1683715062]The authentic Aryanism is the ideology developed
by the 20th century German dictator Adolf Hitler. You know, the
man who said "It was the Jews who brought the negro to the
Rhine. The motive behind this is clear and his intention is
always the same. He wants to destroy the hated white race
through bastardization. He continues to bring negroes in as a
flood and force the mixing of races." No wonder your movement
has made no progress in a decade. Saying that National socialism
is non-racist is a pretty **** indefensible position when there
are quotes like that.
Now, who is the authentic anti-racist - you, who feels close to
Adolf Hitler, or me, who does not?
[/quote]
You're do realize that Hitler regretted writing Mein Kampf
because he had to lie to the people in order to gain support,
right? You do realize Hitler was indicting the French in that
passage right and had no ill will towards 'blacks', right?
Haven't you read the 'Hitler: The Face of Anti-tribalism'
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/hitler-the-face-of-anti-tribalism/<br
/>thread? You can read, right?
#Post#: 19407--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why You All Suck
By: christianbethel Date: May 10, 2023, 11:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Follower of Arya link=topic=1853.msg19401#msg19401
date=1683710414]
[quote author=FRG_03 link=topic=1853.msg19349#msg19349
date=1683646263]
So "Follower of Arya" what are YOU going to do about it?
Everyone who has come here to complain haven't explained their
solutions, just attack. If you aren't subverters why don't you
help the people you supposedly agree with instead of insulting
and appealing to virtueism?
[/quote]
Well for one I’m not sitting on the internet posting news
articles all day and waiting for democracy to win for us. Opsec
is important for those who are actually serious about taking
action, we aren’t just going to talk about it on an exposed
forum where anyone can see it and report it. We aren’t LARPers.
(Do you people seriously not see the problem in having a network
so exposed that people can’t actually discuss their activities
from fear of legal intervention or punishment?)
And Ascesis is offering help. That’s why they came here.
[quote]So, order the leftist to get armed for defense and
counter-attack, simple...[/quote]
So you just… order the leftist? You don’t recruit them, train
them, fund or build their equipment, prepare intentional
communities to protect yourselves and receive the refugees who
survive?
This is what we mean by LARPing: none of you have any actual
clue of how to recruit and build a defence force. You think that
it’s ‘simple’. You think it’s just (other people) rocking up
with a gun and taking some lucky hits.
Good luck to you all.
[/quote]
So I guess creating the Jamia from the Quran is LARPing. Gotcha.
#Post#: 19408--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why You All Suck
By: christianbethel Date: May 10, 2023, 11:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Junito18 link=topic=1853.msg19389#msg19389
date=1683682057]
I’d never heard of Konrad Lorenz, to be honest. And I haven’t
fully thought it through. I can’t, for example, give you a list
of which pre-agricultural populations I would consider to be
superior. I heard about this idea at the start of 2021 here
HTML https://andreashofer72.medium.com
and here
HTML http://the-big-ger-picture.blogspot.com/2022/10/could-morpho-psychology-ever-become.html<br
/>and at first I was arguing with the author, since at that time
I
believed in “Aryanism” and was saying the same things that you
are saying now, but over time I realised that he is probably
right. Like I said, Varg teaches a variation of this. And there
is also a book called ‘Sex at Dawn’ which teaches a variation of
this, although I admit I’m yet to read it. [/quote]
So you admit to following the teachings of a 'White'
Nationalist/Supremacist.
[quote]But can’t you see that any complex agricultural society
needs to maintain a high population otherwise it will simply be
conquered by its larger neighbours? I suppose you would argue
that it need not fear neighbouring hunter-gatherers since they
would have a small population and neighbouring farmers would not
attack them because they are noble. But imagine one of the
farmer societies went bad and did attack them simply to become
more powerful. That society would win in the evolutionary
contest and hence, by the principle of natural selection, all
the farmer societies will end up being expansionist and having
high populations since those are the societies that will win.
This is just natural selection at work. [/quote]
Someone correct this idiot for me. I'm not qualified enough to
answer this.
[quote]I know it isn’t. I’m not saying that we should all become
hunter-gatherers, only that people who are less domesticated are
superior. we can have traits of the hunter-gatherers without
becoming literal hunter-gatherers with stone age technology. As
I said, I think that both the hunter-gatherers and the
agriculturalists killed animals.[/quote]
We already do. There was rampant race-mixing throughout history
which degraded the Aryan race and removed all but trace amounts
of Aryan blood in present-day humans- look how that turned out.
You and I both know agriculturists did not kill animals. They
didn't need to- they grew their own food!
#Post#: 19409--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why You All Suck
By: christianbethel Date: May 10, 2023, 11:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ascesis link=topic=1853.msg19388#msg19388
date=1683681053]
@antihellenistic
I'm not responding to you because I've already had to repeat
myself fifty times to 90sRF, and a many more times with others —
all because you retards can't answer my points without
argumentative fallacies. So I'm not going to do it all over
again for you, merely because you want to prove what a good boy
you are to 90sRetroFan from trueleft.createaforum.com
Plus, I think its funny that the more I ignore you, the larger
your font size and responses get. I know who you are, and your
actual intentions. So no, I'm not going to take you seriously.
But feel free to seethe out even more walls of text though, I
will be happy to scroll right past them like I've been doing for
the past week.
[/quote]
You sound like Destiny/Vaush/Hasan Piker. Not people you'd want
to be compared to.
#Post#: 19410--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why You All Suck
By: Ascesis Date: May 10, 2023, 11:47 am
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>But can’t you see that any complex agricultural society needs
to maintain a high population otherwise it will simply be
conquered by its larger neighbours?
The same applies to clans of Hunter-Gatherers, doesn't it?
>But imagine one of the farmer societies went bad and did attack
them simply to become more powerful. That society would win in
the evolutionary contest and hence, by the principle of natural
selection, all the farmer societies will end up being
expansionist and having high populations since those are the
societies that will win. This is just natural selection at work.
This is why we should work towards an Aryanist world order that
would prevent this (such as your UN example). I know what you're
saying, but there are also ways to win wars without producing a
massive population.
>I know it isn’t. I’m not saying that we should all become
hunter-gatherers, only that people who are less domesticated are
superior.
For the sake of clarity, you're saying that this is because
domesticated civilized humans are more violent than primitive
Hunter-Gatherers due to things like industry and Chauvinism,
right? In which case I think it'd be better to say that
Hunter-Gatherers are really just less inferior than urbanites
for this reason, and that low-impact agricultural civilization
is still the ideal. I know something can always go wrong with
any system, but its hands down better than the other options
>As I said, I think that both the hunter-gatherers and the
agriculturalists killed animals.
They probably did, but Aryanism's point is that even then,
agrarianism still made things like Veganism, art, and
transcendent religion possible
>we can have traits of the hunter-gatherers without becoming
literal hunter-gatherers with stone age technology.
Well does acquiring the traits of Hunter-Gatherers mean exactly?
I think this would be self-defeating if taken at face value
>High sexual dimorphism is needed by societies that are
constantly at war (men) and produce many children (women). It
wouldn’t be necessary for certain pre-agricultural societies.
The thing is though, pre-agricultural societies actually
were/are very sexually dimorphic in both bone structure between
men and women, and the societal gender roles with women
typically gathering fruit, and men hunting. It was only until
the advent of agriculture do you really start to see sexual
dimorphism decreased both skeletally and socially
>And why would there need to be an alpha-beta dynamic?
Competition for the boob lol:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_hierarchy
There is a theory that one of the reasons why Humanity took so
long to advance into civilization, is because the Alpha-Beta
paradigm produced a lot of "Betas" who refused to contribute to
the tribe whenever the "Alphas" would hog all of the women. But
when the Neolithic Revolution came in, monogamy gave everyone a
decent chance to find a partner, and therefore incentized
everyone to get to work.
I know this is completely theoretical, but I think this is
entirely plausible, and simply makes sense when you consider the
extreme sexual dimorphism and Alpha-Beta dynamic you find in
primitive Hunter tribes compared to more "domesticated" agrarian
cultures.
>Like I said, is it easier to say ‘no’ to someone with authority
in a civilised society with laws and hierarchies backed up by
the army and a police force or a in a small band of
hunter-gatherers? Would there even be people in non-agricultural
societies with significant authority?
The tribe leader would presumably have all of the authority.
Power hungry tyrants exist everywhere my guy, primitive
Hunter-Gatherer tribes are no different
>but they were individually in control of how they responded to
those challenges. You don’t have individual control if you live
in a civilised society. How you live and what you’re allowed to
do and say is dictated to you by others.
I'd say the grass is always greener on the other side.
Ultimately, nothing is stopping us from homesteading away from
civilization, besides ourselves
>The Mongols are an example of a pre-agricultural society that
wouldn’t have had the right conditions for the sort of person I
favour to develop. They were very warlike due to the lack of
resources. And the horse meant that they could travel quite
easily and could hence make war with many different groups of
people.
Mongolic behavior is simply a natural consequence of
pre-agricultural modes of survival. If someone is going to
overwhelm defenseless animals with force, or herd them using
deception, what's actually stopping them from treating Humans
the same way?
>But my point isn’t that the problem is with the education
system, but with how certain people’s minds work naturally.
So then are you saying that agrarian culture is in conflict with
how people naturally think?
>I would have no problem with America being one of the
superpowers.
Same here, as long as America drops Zionism & Consumerism
#Post#: 19411--------------------------------------------------
Re: Why You All Suck
By: christianbethel Date: May 10, 2023, 12:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
'Same here, as long as America drops Zionism & Consumerism'
...That's exactly what AS said. He said 'Our entire geopolitical
plan revolves around ensuring America remains one of the
superpowers but merely turning anti-Western!'
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