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       #Post#: 30690--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Buddhism
       By: SirGalahad Date: July 30, 2025, 4:26 am
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       @90sRetroFan In the old article on Buddhism, you mentioned the
       Dunhuang manuscripts and murals as a dubious source. Can you
       elaborate on this? I would like to know which manuscripts you
       consider dubious, if not all of them
       I'm trying to learn more about Zen Buddhism by reading the
       actual texts, but the book I'm reading for the Platform Sutra
       relies on the version of it found in Dunhuang, since that's
       actually the earliest copy of it that we have
       #Post#: 30692--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Buddhism
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: July 30, 2025, 8:04 pm
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       The quote you are referring to reads:
       [quote]present-day Zionist agents (such as CIA/Mossad-backed
       Tenzin Gyatso) are attempting to subvert Siddhartha’s teachings
       by giving Tibetan Buddhism and other compromised sects primacy
       in public consciousness, along with emphasis on dubious sources
       such as the Dunhuang manuscripts and murals.[/quote]
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunhuang_manuscripts
       [quote]Pelliot retrieved a large number of documents from Caves
       464 and 465 in the northern section of the Mogao Caves. These
       documents mostly date to the Yuan dynasty (1271–1368)[/quote]
       Firstly, the Yuan dynasty had a pro-Tibetan bias:
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuan_dynasty
       [quote]Buddhism had a great influence in the Yuan government,
       and the Tibetan-rite Tantric Buddhism had significantly
       influenced China during this period.
       ...
       Kublai Khan, the founder of the Yuan dynasty, favored Buddhism,
       especially the Tibetan variants. As a result, Tibetan Buddhism
       became the de facto state religion. The top-level department and
       government agency known as the Bureau of Buddhist and Tibetan
       Affairs (Chinese: 宣政院; pinyin:
       xuānzhèngyuàn) was set up in Khanbaliq (modern Beijing) to
       supervise Buddhist monks throughout the empire.[/quote]
       All of this stuff should therefore be excluded. This leaves
       (back to first link):
       [quote]Most of the manuscripts originate from a cache of
       documents produced between the late 4th and early 11th
       centuries. These were sealed in what is now known as the Library
       Cave (Cave 17) sometime in the early 11th century.[/quote]
       The problem here is:
       [quote]From 1907 onwards, Wang began to sell them to Western
       explorers[/quote]
       Which brings us to:
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Dunhuang_Programme
       [quote]The International Dunhuang Project (IDP) is an
       international collaborative effort to conserve, catalogue and
       digitise manuscripts, printed texts, paintings, textiles and
       artefacts from the Mogao caves at the Western Chinese city of
       Dunhuang and various other archaeological sites at the eastern
       end of the Silk Road. The project was established by the British
       Library in 1994
       ...
       The IDP was initially founded with 3-year grant from the Chiang
       Ching-kuo Foundation,[18] and had only one member of
       staff.[16][/quote]
       (
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/chiang-ching-kuo-who-succeeded-his-father-chiang-kai-shek-married-a-woman-emigra/msg27336/#msg27336<br
       />)
       What could the IDP's agenda possibly be?
  HTML https://thediplomat.com/2015/11/tibet-taiwan-and-china-a-complex-nexus/
       [quote]the Dalai Lama has travelled three times to Taiwan, in
       March 1997, March 2001, and September 2009. The first trip was
       during the tenure of President Lee Teng-hui, the second was
       after the victory of the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP)
       under the leadership of President Chen Shui-bian, and the third
       was right after the KMT had been reelected to power under
       President Ma Ying-jeou. All visits evoked fierce condemnation
       from China.
       ...
       But is this coalescing of Tibet-Taiwan forces meant to counter
       Beijing?
       ...
       For instance, in his March 10 statement in 1994, when the
       Tibetans had just begun stabilizing relations with Taiwan, the
       Dalai Lama had argued that better relations with the “Chinese
       living in free countries, especially in Taiwan” would help in
       explaining the Tibetan situation to them, which he hoped “will
       gradually percolate to China.”[/quote]
       Therefore, even if we generously assume that all the collectors
       are submitting all the manuscripts they have to the IDP (which
       is dubious in itself, since any of the collectors (
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Dunhuang_Programme#Collections<br
       />) could be serving their own agendas by withholding parts of
       what they possess), the IDP could trivially be withholding from
       the public whatever they want by claiming that whatever is being
       withheld is stuff that they have not gotten around to processing
       yet. If I had to guess, whatever is being released is curated to
       give a pro-Tibetan slant. albeit probably not more so than the
       Yuan dynasty stuff, which ironically will be used as an argument
       that they reinforce one another and hence are similarly
       reliable!
       Related:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/jews-have-nothing-in-common-with-us!/msg5164/#msg5164
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