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#Post#: 30690--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buddhism
DIR By: SirGalahad
Date: July 30, 2025, 4:26 am
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@90sRetroFan In the old article on Buddhism, you mentioned the
Dunhuang manuscripts and murals as a dubious source. Can you
elaborate on this? I would like to know which manuscripts you
consider dubious, if not all of them
I'm trying to learn more about Zen Buddhism by reading the
actual texts, but the book I'm reading for the Platform Sutra
relies on the version of it found in Dunhuang, since that's
actually the earliest copy of it that we have
#Post#: 30692--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buddhism
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: July 30, 2025, 8:04 pm
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The quote you are referring to reads:
--- Quote ---
> present-day Zionist agents (such as CIA/Mossad-backed Tenzin
Gyatso) are attempting to subvert Siddhartha’s teachings by
giving Tibetan Buddhism and other compromised sects primacy in
public consciousness, along with emphasis on dubious sources
such as the Dunhuang manuscripts and murals.
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunhuang_manuscripts
--- Quote ---
> Pelliot retrieved a large number of documents from Caves 464
and 465 in the northern section of the Mogao Caves. These
documents mostly date to the Yuan dynasty (1271–1368)
--- End Quote ---
Firstly, the Yuan dynasty had a pro-Tibetan bias:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuan_dynasty
--- Quote ---
> Buddhism had a great influence in the Yuan government, and the
Tibetan-rite Tantric Buddhism had significantly influenced China
during this period.
> ...
> Kublai Khan, the founder of the Yuan dynasty, favored
Buddhism, especially the Tibetan variants. As a result, Tibetan
Buddhism became the de facto state religion. The top-level
department and government agency known as the Bureau of Buddhist
and Tibetan Affairs (Chinese: 宣政院; pinyin:
xuānzhèngyuàn) was set up in Khanbaliq (modern Beijing) to
supervise Buddhist monks throughout the empire.
--- End Quote ---
All of this stuff should therefore be excluded. This leaves
(back to first link):
--- Quote ---
> Most of the manuscripts originate from a cache of documents
produced between the late 4th and early 11th centuries. These
were sealed in what is now known as the Library Cave (Cave 17)
sometime in the early 11th century.
--- End Quote ---
The problem here is:
--- Quote ---
> From 1907 onwards, Wang began to sell them to Western
explorers
--- End Quote ---
Which brings us to:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Dunhuang_Programme
--- Quote ---
> The International Dunhuang Project (IDP) is an international
collaborative effort to conserve, catalogue and digitise
manuscripts, printed texts, paintings, textiles and artefacts
from the Mogao caves at the Western Chinese city of Dunhuang and
various other archaeological sites at the eastern end of the
Silk Road. The project was established by the British Library in
1994
> ...
> The IDP was initially founded with 3-year grant from the
Chiang Ching-kuo Foundation,[18] and had only one member of
staff.[16]
--- End Quote ---
(
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/chiang-ching-kuo-who-succeeded-his-father-chiang-kai-shek-married-a-woman-emigra/msg27336/#msg27336<br
/>)
What could the IDP's agenda possibly be?
HTML https://thediplomat.com/2015/11/tibet-taiwan-and-china-a-complex-nexus/
--- Quote ---
> the Dalai Lama has travelled three times to Taiwan, in March
1997, March 2001, and September 2009. The first trip was during
the tenure of President Lee Teng-hui, the second was after the
victory of the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) under the
leadership of President Chen Shui-bian, and the third was right
after the KMT had been reelected to power under President Ma
Ying-jeou. All visits evoked fierce condemnation from China.
> ...
> But is this coalescing of Tibet-Taiwan forces meant to counter
Beijing?
> ...
> For instance, in his March 10 statement in 1994, when the
Tibetans had just begun stabilizing relations with Taiwan, the
Dalai Lama had argued that better relations with the “Chinese
living in free countries, especially in Taiwan” would help in
explaining the Tibetan situation to them, which he hoped “will
gradually percolate to China.”
--- End Quote ---
Therefore, even if we generously assume that all the collectors
are submitting all the manuscripts they have to the IDP (which
is dubious in itself, since any of the collectors (
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Dunhuang_Programme#Collections<br
/>) could be serving their own agendas by withholding parts of
what they possess), the IDP could trivially be withholding from
the public whatever they want by claiming that whatever is being
withheld is stuff that they have not gotten around to processing
yet. If I had to guess, whatever is being released is curated to
give a pro-Tibetan slant. albeit probably not more so than the
Yuan dynasty stuff, which ironically will be used as an argument
that they reinforce one another and hence are similarly
reliable!
Related:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/jews-have-nothing-in-common-with-us!/msg5164/#msg5164
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