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#Post#: 18879--------------------------------------------------
Buddhism
By: SirGalahad Date: April 15, 2023, 12:04 am
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I saw someone quote this section of the Lotus Sutra, and it
immediately didn’t sit right with me:
“After the buddhas attained parinirvāṇa,
All those who paid homage to the relics,
Who made myriads of koṭis of stupas
Extensively and beautifully adorned with gold, silver, Crystal,
mother of pearl, agate, ruby,
Lapis lazuli, and pearl;
Those who made rock stupas,
Stupas out of sandal, aloe, deodar, and other woods, As well as
brick, tile, mud, and other materials;
All those who made buddha stupas
Out of piles of earth in desolate places;
And even children in play
Who made buddha stupas out of heaps of sand—
All such people have certainly attained
The path of the buddhas.
And all those who made images of the buddhas
Carved with their extraordinary marks
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.
All those who made buddha images
Out of the seven treasures,
Decorated with brass, copper, pewter, lead,
Tin, iron, wood, mud, glue, lacquer, and cloth,
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.
All those who made or had others make buddha images Painted with
the one hundred embellishing
Marks of merit,
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas. This even
includes children in play
Who have drawn a buddha image
With a blade of grass or a twig,
Brush or fingernail.
Such people, having gradually accumulated merit
And perfected great compassion,
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.
Leading and inspiring the bodhisattvas,
They save countless sentient beings.
All those who paid homage to stupas,
Sculpted or painted images,
Honoring them with flowers, perfumes,
Banners, and canopies;
Those who paid homage with all kinds of sweet music— With drums,
horns, conches, pipes, flutes, lutes, harps, Mandolins, gongs,
and cymbals;
Those who joyfully praised the qualities of the buddhas With
various songs or
Even with a single low-pitched sound,
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.
Those who, even with distracted minds
Have offered a single flower to a painted image
Will in time see innumerable buddhas.
Or those who have done obeisance to images,
Or merely pressed their palms together,
Or raised a single hand, or nodded their heads,
Will in due time see immeasurable buddhas.
They will attain the highest path
And extensively save innumerable sentient beings.
They will enter nirvana without residue
Just as a fire goes out after its wood is exhausted.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, ‘Homage to the Buddha!’
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.”
I dislike how so many historical and recently constructed
Buddhist temples are lavishly decorated in gold and other
priceless materials. That seems to fly completely against the
strict anti-materialism that the Buddha espoused. Much in the
same way that Homo Hubris Christians respect their
anti-materialist and anti-wealth prophet by creating gaudy
churches that ultimately serve as monuments to both materialism
AND accumulated wealth in the form of architecture. Could you
imagine the Buddha sitting in any one of these temples?:
HTML https://www.thewanderinghedonist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/IMG_7335.jpg
[img]
HTML https://media.istockphoto.com/id/1255625182/photo/lavish-gold-buddha-temple-in-hong-kong.jpg?s=612x612&w=is&k=20&c=eX6kcAQ3o36wZxGQdoIwne_0OHsKG9Ct8pXbxNYDjoU=[/img]
HTML https://openbuddhism.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/shutterstock_1230439834-1140x529.jpg
And I won’t even get into the, pardon my language, atrociously
ugly art that a lot of these temples have. The space-filling art
in some of these temples impressively rival many similar white
western monuments. My other issue with this section of the Lotus
Sutra, is that it exalts not just creating such lavishly adorned
monuments, but also paying obeisance to monuments, statues, and
Buddha images, and claims that these actions can accumulate
merit for a person. As opposed to actually doing the work that’s
involved in following the Buddha’s example and taking the path
that he took
TLDR: This is likely what happens when people with incompatible
blood memory convert to Buddhism
#Post#: 18896--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buddhism
By: 90sRetroFan Date: April 16, 2023, 12:15 am
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"I dislike how so many historical and recently constructed
Buddhist temples are lavishly decorated in gold and other
priceless materials. That seems to fly completely against the
strict anti-materialism that the Buddha espoused."
Contrast with early Buddhist architecture:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vih%C4%81ra
[quote]Vihāra generally refers to a Buddhist monastery for
Buddhist renunciates, mostly in the Indian subcontinent. The
concept is ancient and in early Sanskrit and Pali texts, it
meant any arrangement of space or facilities for dwellings
.[2][3] The term evolved into an architectural concept wherein
it refers to living quarters for monks with an open shared space
or courtyard, particularly in Buddhism.
...
Vihara or vihara hall has a more specific meaning in the
architecture of India, especially ancient Indian rock-cut
architecture. Here it means a central hall, with small cells
connected to it, sometimes with beds carved from the stone. Some
have a shrine cell set back at the centre of the back wall,
containing a stupa in early examples, or a Buddha statue
later.[/quote]
I posted some photos here:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/indian-attitudes/msg17802/#msg17802
Here are a few more:
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/KarlaCavesExtView.jpg/1024px-KarlaCavesExtView.jpg
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/045_Vihara_Cave_on_Second_Floor_%2833652157046%29.jpg/1024px-045_Vihara_Cave_on_Second_Floor_%2833652157046%29.jpg
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Ellora_Caves%2C_India%2C_Facade_of_ancient_Buddhist_temple%2C_Cave_11.jpg/1024px-Ellora_Caves%2C_India%2C_Facade_of_ancient_Buddhist_temple%2C_Cave_11.jpg
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Barabar_caves_Sudama_inside.jpg
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/038_Cave_10%2C_Interior_%2833928438936%29.jpg/1024px-038_Cave_10%2C_Interior_%2833928438936%29.jpg
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/028_Inside_one_of_the_Cells_%2832879103943%29.jpg/1024px-028_Inside_one_of_the_Cells_%2832879103943%29.jpg
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/034_Small_Chaitya_%2833651538946%29.jpg/1024px-034_Small_Chaitya_%2833651538946%29.jpg
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Kanheri6.jpg
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Kanheri-vihara.jpg
[img]
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Kanheri_Caves_-_Hall.JPG/1024px-Kanheri_Caves_-_Hall.JPG[/img]
At least there were some later attempts to re-simplify:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baizhang_Huaihai#Monasticism
[quote]According to traditional Chan/Zen accounts, Baizhang
established an early set of rules for Chan (Chinese Zen)
monastic discipline, the Pure Rules of Baizhang (Chinese:
百丈清規; pinyin: Bǎizhàng
qīngguī; Wade–Giles: Pai-chang
ch'ing-kuei,[10][11][12]Korean:
백장청규[13]) It was practiced in
Ta-chih shou-sheng ch'an-ssu (Jp. Daichijusho-zenji), founded by
Baizhang. This monastery contained a monks hall, an innovation
which became typical for Chán:
During periods of ascetic practice the monks would sleep on the
same straw mat on which they sat in meditation and on which,
according to defined ritual, they took their meals. Both the
lifestyle Pai-chang spelled out as well as the architectural
form of his monastery became models for later Zen
monasteries".[14][/quote]
Modern example:
HTML https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nung_Chan_Monastery<br
/>(many photos)
"paying obeisance to monuments, statues, and Buddha images, and
claims that these actions can accumulate merit for a person."
The original point of obeisance is to remind yourself how badly
you suck compared to how you should be. This in itself is
actually a good thing to remind yourself about. Where it got
corrupted is when people started doing it with expectation of
reward in mind. If you sincerely believe you suck, you should
think that you do not deserve to be rewarded!
"As opposed to actually doing the work that’s involved in
following the Buddha’s example and taking the path that he took"
Done properly (7:32, 7:47), obeisance is a demanding ascetic
exercise which can certainly be considered a reiteration of one
part of Siddhartha's path. The following scene (unfortunately
the audio is muted towards the end) from Journey to the West
(note also the relatively undecorated shrine composition at 1:20
and 10:40; the story is set loosely during the Tang dynasty,
which was Baizhang's era) provides a classic demonstration:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUfEeDyZti0
#Post#: 22330--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buddhism
By: rp Date: September 23, 2023, 6:33 pm
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HTML https://x.com/dharma__vijay/status/1692944303704649840?s=20
[quote]
Vijay
@dharma__vijay
1. Buddhism becoming indistinguishable from Vedic Hinduism. With
Mahayana and Tantrayana, Buddhism became filled with deities,
yajna and rituals.
2. Decadence in the monastic order. Every lazy bum ended up as a
monk to enjoy 2 free sumptuous meals a day. Collapse from
within.
3.
HTML https://twitter.com/MonaADhar/status/1692625765492199477
[quote]What do you think is the reason of decline of Buddhism in
India ??
[/quote]
[/quote]
#Post#: 22489--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buddhism
By: rp Date: September 30, 2023, 6:11 pm
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During the inception of the Republic (of India), there was an
attempt by pacifists to appropriate Ashoka as a "pacifist"
(hence the Ashoka Chakra on the flag). However, now that the
facts are coming out:
HTML https://twitter.com/prachyam7/status/1633818063635087361
[quote]
Prachyam
@prachyam7
The 'Not So Great' Ashoka! 💔
The entire 'conversion-to-Buddhism-due-to-remorse' story of
Ashoka is a blatant lie, created to send Hindus on a guilt trip
👇👇
[/quote]
Replies:
HTML https://x.com/prachyam7/status/1633818063635087361?s=20
[quote]So now the Ashoka was cruel just because he patronised
Buddhism and waged wars. LOL. By that yardstick every ruler of
of India was a cruel person.
RWs!!! Don't make a fool out of yourself.🤣[/quote]
#Post#: 22498--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buddhism
By: 90sRetroFan Date: September 30, 2023, 8:39 pm
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[quote]Ashoka had converted to Buddhism more than two years
before the Kalinga War.[/quote]
I told you so. Now let the entire nominally Buddhist world
contemplate that if not for Ashoka's willingness to use war to
expand his empire, Buddhism would never have reached the rest of
the world:
HTML https://slideplayer.com/slide/13687702/84/images/6/Ashoka+helped+to+spread+Buddhism.jpg
HTML https://live.staticflickr.com/8390/8570400564_e4dc131da1_c.jpg
and indeed might even have died out altogether following its
decline within India.
Can any historical pacifist claim to be anywhere near as
successful a promoter of Buddhism as Ashoka was? Thus the
correct Buddhist attitude to politics is not pacifism, but
Ashokism. This approach was always present in authentic Buddhism
(which the pacifist nominal "Buddhists" somehow manage to
ignore):
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajrapani
[quote]Vajrapāṇi (Sanskrit; Pali:
Vajirapāṇi, meaning, "Vajra in [his] hand") is one of
the earliest-appearing bodhisattvas in Mahayana Buddhism. He is
the protector and guide of Gautama Buddha and rose to symbolize
the Buddha's power.
...
Acharya-Vajrapani is Vajrapani's manifestation as Dharmapala,
often seen sporting a third eye, ghanta (bell) and
pāśa (lasso). He is sometimes represented as a yidam
with one head and four hands in a form known as
Nilambara-Vajrapani, carrying a vajra, and treading on personage
lying on snakes. Mahacakra-Vajrapani, also a yidam, is depicted
with three heads and six arms, carrying a vajra and snakes
whilst treading on Brahma and Shiva.
...
Vajrapāni's expression is wrathful, and is often symbolized
as a yaksha, to generate "fear in the individual to loosen up
his dogmatism."[6]
...
Vajrapani always present in the scenes where Buddha is
converting people; his presence is shown when the Buddha
confronts the opponents of the dharma like Mara before his
enlightenment. Scenes of Sakyamuni competing with the heretics
are also part of this art tradition. Scenes of Buddha using the
vajra of Vajrapani as the "magic weapon" to perform miracles and
propagate "superiority of his doctrine" are also common.[17]
...
The Pāli Canon's Ambattha Sutta, which challenges the rigid
nature of caste system, tells of one instance of him appearing
as a sign of the Buddha's power. At the behest of his teacher, a
young Brahmin named Ambatha visited the Buddha. Knowing the
Buddha's family to be the Shakya clan, who are Kshatriya caste,
Ambatha failed to show him the respect he would a fellow
Brahmin. When the Buddha questioned his lack of respect, Ambatha
replied it was because the Buddha belongs to a "menial" caste.
The Buddha then asked the Brahmin if his family was descended
from a “Shakya slave girl”. Knowing this to be true, Ambatha
refused to answer the question. Upon refusing to answer the
question for a second time, the Buddha warned him that his head
would be smashed to bits if he failed to do so a third time.
Ambatha was frightened when he saw Vajrapāni manifest above
the Buddha's head ready to strike the Brahmin down with his
thunderbolt. He quickly confirmed the truth and a lesson on
caste ensues.[25]
...
A popular story tells how Vajrapāni kills Maheśvara, a
manifestation of Shiva depicted as an evil being.[26][6] The
story occurs in several scriptures, most notably the
Sarvatathāgatatattvasaṅgraha and the
Vajrāpanyābhiṣeka Mahātantra.[27] The story
begins with the transformation of the bodhisattva Samantabhadra
into Vajrapāni by Vairocana, the cosmic Buddha, receiving a
vajra and the name "Vajrāpani".[28] Vairocana then requests
Vajrapāni to generate his adamantine family in order to
establish a mandala. Vajrapāni refuses because
Maheśvara "is deluding beings with his deceitful religious
doctrines and engaging in all kinds of violent criminal
conduct".[29] Maheśvara and his entourage are dragged to
Mount Meru, and all but Maheśvara submit. Vajrapāni
and Maheśvara engage in a magical combat, which is won by
Vajrapāni. Maheśvara's retinue become part of
Vairocana's mandala, except for Maheśvara, who is killed
...
"To those who can be conveyed to deliverance by the body of the
spirit who grasps the vajra (Vajrapāni) he preaches Dharma
by displaying the body of the spirit who grasps the vajra."[37]
He was historically worshiped as the progenitor of their famous
staff method by the monks themselves. A stele erected by Shaolin
abbot Wenzai in 1517 shows the deity's vajra-club had by then
been changed to a gun staff,[38] which originally "served as the
emblem of the monk".[39] Vajrapāni's yaksha-like Narayana
form was eventually equated with one of the four staff-wielding
"Kinnara Kings" from the Lotus Sutra in 1575. His name was thus
changed from Narayana to "Kinnara King".[40] One of the many
versions of a certain tale regarding his creation of the staff
method takes place during the Yuan-era Red Turban Rebellion.
Bandits lay siege to the monastery, but it is saved by a lowly
kitchen worker wielding a long fire poker as a makeshift staff.
He leaps into the oven and emerges as a monstrous giant big
enough to stand astride both Mount Song and the imperial fort
atop Mount Shaoshi (which are five miles apart). The bandits
flee when they behold this staff-wielding titan. The Shaolin
monks later realize that the kitchen worker was none other than
the Kinnara King in disguise.[41] Shahar notes the part of the
kitchen worker might have been based on the actual life of the
monk Huineng (638-713).[41] In addition, he suggests the
mythical elements of the tale were based on the fictional
adventures of Sun Wukong from the Chinese epic Journey to the
West. He compares the worker's transformation in the stove with
Sun's time in Laozi's crucible, their use of the staff, and the
fact that Sun and his weapon can both grow to gigantic
proportions.[42][/quote]
See also:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/true-left-breakthrough-folkish-imperialism/
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/the-archetype-of-the-warrior-how-films-help-empower-us-all/msg17314/#msg17314
#Post#: 22506--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buddhism
By: rp Date: October 1, 2023, 7:32 am
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HTML https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka#Kalinga_war_and_conversion_to_Buddhism
[Quote]
Ashoka's inscriptions mention that he conquered the Kalinga
region during his 8th regnal year: the destruction caused during
the war made him repent violence, and in the subsequent years,
he was drawn towards Buddhism.[89] Edict 13 of the Edicts of
Ashoka Rock Inscriptions expresses the great remorse the king
felt after observing the destruction of Kalinga:
Directly, after the Kalingas had been annexed, began His Sacred
Majesty's zealous protection of the Law of Piety, his love of
that Law, and his inculcation of that Law. Thence arises the
remorse of His Sacred Majesty for having conquered the Kalingas
because the conquest of a country previously unconquered
involves the slaughter, death, and carrying away captive of the
people. That is a matter of profound sorrow and regret to His
Sacred Majesty.[90]
On the other hand, the Sri Lankan tradition suggests that Ashoka
was already a devoted Buddhist by his 8th regnal year, converted
to Buddhism during his 4th regnal year, and constructed 84,000
viharas during his 5th–7th regnal years.[89] The Buddhist
legends make no mention of the Kalinga campaign.[91]
Based on Sri Lankan tradition, some scholars, such as Eggermont,
believe Ashoka converted to Buddhism before the Kalinga war.[92]
Critics of this theory argue that if Ashoka were already a
Buddhist, he would not have waged the violent Kalinga War.
Eggermont explains this anomaly by theorising that Ashoka had
his own interpretation of the "Middle Way".[93]
Some earlier writers believed that Ashoka dramatically converted
to Buddhism after seeing the suffering caused by the war since
his Major Rock Edict 13 states that he became closer to the
dhamma after the annexation of Kalinga.[91] However, even if
Ashoka converted to Buddhism after the war, epigraphic evidence
suggests that his conversion was a gradual process rather than a
dramatic event.[91] For example, in a Minor Rock Edict issued
during his 13th regnal year (five years after the Kalinga
campaign), he states that he had been an upasaka (lay Buddhist)
for more than two and a half years, but did not make much
progress; in the past year, he was drawn closer to the sangha
and became a more ardent follower.[91
[/Quote]
HTML https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Way
#Post#: 22515--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buddhism
By: 90sRetroFan Date: October 1, 2023, 2:40 pm
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[quote]Eggermont explains this anomaly by theorising that Ashoka
had his own interpretation of the "Middle Way".[93][/quote]
Even the standard interpretation of the Middle Way:
[quote]the Middle Way which steers clear of the extremes of
sensual indulgence and self-mortification:[3][/quote]
would only classify as indulgence positively relishing war (e.g.
as Achilleans/Faustians/Nietzscheans do, seeing in war the
opportunity for glory/conquest/overcoming) instead of preferring
the enemy to never have existed in the first place. If anything,
to not wage war despite the enemy existing would be classified
as self-mortification.
#Post#: 22521--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buddhism
By: rp Date: October 1, 2023, 4:21 pm
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That is the difference between Arihant/foe-destroyer and
ubermensch/overman
#Post#: 22842--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buddhism
By: rp Date: October 16, 2023, 8:50 pm
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I have noticed that there are mainly three different schools of
thought with regard to meat-eating/animal sacrifices:
Jainism - Anti animal sacrifice and anti meat eating
Hinduism - Pro animal sacrifice but anti-meat eating
Buddhism - Anti animal sacrifice but pro meat eating
This is not to say that the second and third schools of thought
cannot be purified. For example, we have established that Buddha
only ate meat that was not made for him. Similarly, in Hinduism,
while animal sacrifice is sanctioned according to the
scriptures, renunciates/monks (who are forbidden to even pluck
the fruit of trees, let alone perform animal sacrifice), are
held as the ideal and being superior to the one who sacrifices
animals.
#Post#: 22848--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buddhism
By: 90sRetroFan Date: October 16, 2023, 9:04 pm
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Calling Buddhism "pro meat eating" is a terrible wording. That
makes it sound like meat was positively recommended!
"Buddha only ate meat that was not made for him."
Be logical! If everyone would only eat meat not made for
themselves, would any meat be made in the first place?
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