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#Post#: 18039--------------------------------------------------
Positivity vs. Optimism vs. Defeatism vs. Boromir Syndrome
By: rp Date: February 20, 2023, 10:18 pm
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Positivity - Highlighting something positive that has happened,
gives you hope in the sense that your goal is achievable, but
stresses that the positive event was a result of action, and
hence we should not give up on our actions until we achieve the
goal ("Whitepill")
Optimism - Belief that goal is achievable, but that no action
needs to be taken since the future is already
assured("Bluepill")
Defeatism- Belief that goal is unachievable and is not even
worth trying ("Blackpill")
Boromir Syndrome - Belief that goal is unachievable, and that
therefore we have to adopt the enemy's values. ("Redpill")
What do you guys think?
#Post#: 18040--------------------------------------------------
Re: Positivity vs. Optimism vs. Defeatism vs. Boromir Syndrome
By: 90sRetroFan Date: February 20, 2023, 10:27 pm
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Why do you keep misrepresenting Boromir Syndrome? I only
recently corrected you here:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/indian-attitudes/msg17760/#msg17760
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/indian-attitudes/msg17765/#msg17765
"Belief that goal is unachievable, and that therefore we have to
adopt the enemy's values."
This describes Saruman, not Boromir:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBMiyEzOJmI
Also, to answer your general question, I do not recommend using
the pill terminology. We should distinguish between positivity
and optimism, and that's it.
#Post#: 18041--------------------------------------------------
Re: Positivity vs. Optimism vs. Defeatism vs. Boromir Syndrome
By: rp Date: February 20, 2023, 10:44 pm
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"Why do you keep misrepresenting Boromir Syndrome? I only
recently corrected you here:"
I remembered you arguing with some Gentiles in the comments of
Aryanism.net, where they claimed "tribalism is inevitable". They
also said that the "jews are trying to mongrelize us". The part
about tribalism being inevitable seemed to suggest to me that
they were adopting rightists values out of the belief that
leftist values were unattainable. But looking at your definition
of Boromir Syndrome, while those Gentiles may be Boromir
Syndrome infected, I agree that the belief in question, namely
"tribalism is inevitable", is not necessarily a BS one.
"Also, in general, I do not recommend using the pill
terminology. We should distinguish between positivity and
optimism, and that's it."
Ok, but I should add that I did not create those pill
definitions myself, but am reusing what rightists created,
merely adopting it for leftism. I found the terminology to be
very apt to describe the various attitudes I was witnessing. But
would you agree that we must also seek to define defeatism and
highlight its contrast to positivity, in order to eschew the
former attitude? And lastly, would you agree that the "tribalism
is inevitable" is a "red-pill" statement, since you yourself
have referred to such cases as "red-pill junkies"?
EDIT: "This describes Saruman, not Boromir:"
I agree. In the previous paragraph I conceded that the attitude
was not Boromir Syndome.
#Post#: 18042--------------------------------------------------
Re: Positivity vs. Optimism vs. Defeatism vs. Boromir Syndrome
By: 90sRetroFan Date: February 20, 2023, 11:12 pm
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"they claimed "tribalism is inevitable"."
I am not sure if we are talking about the same discussion, but I
think what they meant was that tribalism cannot be defeated by
non-tribalism. This is factually true:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/human-evolution/ethnotribalism-the-computer-simulation/
It takes anti-tribalism (a.k.a. folkism) to defeat tribalism.
But they deliberately ignored this even after I presented it to
them.
"would you agree that we must also seek to define defeatism and
highlight its contrast to positivity, in order to eschew the
former attitude?"
Sure, as I was doing here:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/question-about-rational-thinking/msg17674/#msg17674
[quote]If I believe it is impossible, I will not work towards
it.
If I believe it is inevitable, I will also not work towards it.
Only if I believe it is possible but not inevitable will I work
towards it.[/quote]
"would you agree that the "tribalism is inevitable" is a
"red-pill" statement"
"Tribalism will always defeat non-tribalism" is a red-pill
statement (strictly original Matrix sense) compared to
"tribalism will be defeated by non-tribalism" since it is less
delusional. "Tribalism in inevitable" is itself delusional,
however, ignoring the possibility of folkism.
"since you yourself have referred to such cases as "red-pill
junkies"?"
Red Pill junkies refer those who think that just because they
have broken through the first level of delusion, they have
already reached the truth. For example:
HTML http://aryanism.net/blog/aryan-sanctuary/the-last-word-on-marxism/
[quote]The most important thing to remember is that Hitler, who
should indeed be remembered for his fight against Marxism, was
fighting against the real Marxism as is accurately depicted by
the above article, not what Red Pill junkies erroneously call
“Marxism” today. It is precisely those useful idiots who imagine
that Hitler was fighting against Red-Pill-hallucinatory
”Marxism” who necessarily presume that Hitler’s ideology was the
same as neo-Nazism. On the other hand, it is those who
understand that Hitler was fighting against the real Marxism who
have an easier time beginning to understand authentic National
Socialism.[/quote]
#Post#: 18043--------------------------------------------------
Re: Positivity vs. Optimism vs. Defeatism vs. Boromir Syndrome
By: rp Date: February 20, 2023, 11:21 pm
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"I am not sure if we are talking about the same discussion, but
I think what they meant was that tribalism cannot be defeated by
non-tribalism. This is factually true:"
Yes. This is the attitude I meant to refer to.
"Tribalism is inevitable" is not a red-pill statement since it
is itself delusional, ignoring the possibility of folkism."
I agree. Now that I think of it I have not seen any rightists
express this attitude.
#Post#: 25441--------------------------------------------------
Re: Positivity vs. Optimism vs. Defeatism vs. Boromir Syndrome
By: speedarian Date: March 14, 2024, 5:26 pm
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I didn't want to create a separate topic for this, why call it
'boromir syndrome'? It ties the phrase to a fantasy franchise
not everyone is aware of when the phrase should be universal.
I would call it 'adaptation syndrome' as it is tied to
naturalism.
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