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#Post#: 17007--------------------------------------------------
Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
DIR By: rp
Date: December 11, 2022, 12:47 am
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HTML https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/1257885407296909314
[quote]
Richard Spencer
@RichardBSpencer
Replying to
@Tom_Sunic
I recognize why Nietzsches hated Schopenhauer so much and felt
he had to overcome him. The manly, Roman spirit is to be willing
to give up a million years in the underworld for one last taste
of life on earth.
[/Quote]
#Post#: 17011--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
DIR By: guest90
Date: December 11, 2022, 4:02 am
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…. We’ve really got to reclaim Rome from them.
#Post#: 17013--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
DIR By: guest78
Date: December 11, 2022, 4:06 am
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--- Quote ---
> The manly, Roman spirit is to be willing to give up a million
years in the underworld for one last taste of life on earth.
--- End Quote ---
Holy fucken ****, all types of prophecies I never even really
believed in are coming true! Absolutely bizarre! These people's
souls are so ****!
#Post#: 17015--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
DIR By: rp
Date: December 11, 2022, 8:26 am
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Byzantium =/= Rome
#Post#: 17017--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
DIR By: rp
Date: December 11, 2022, 9:31 am
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On another note, is Identitarianism even compatible with
Nietzscheanism? I recall 90sRetroFan mentioning that
Identitarianism and fascism are incompatible. To the extent that
Nietzscheanism is fascism, I assume the same would apply.
#Post#: 17020--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 11, 2022, 6:39 pm
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One thing identitarians share with Nietzsche is dislike of
Christianity. On the other hand, identitarians also dislike
Judaism whereas Nietzsche liked Judaism. Indeed, identitarians
dislike Judaism and Christianity for the same shallow xenophobic
reason (both are of "non-European" origin) whereas Nietzsche at
least bothered to distinguish between the content of the two,
and considered Judaic values more compatible with the quest for
the Overman (I agree with this, since the Overman is
fundamentally a progressive ambition, and Judaism is also
fundamentally progressive).
HTML https://newramblerreview.com/book-reviews/philosophy/nietzsche-s-hatred-of-jew-hatred
--- Quote ---
> Consider sec. 251 of Beyond Good and Evil, which Holub
purports to discuss (114-115, 121-123, 161-162). Nietzsche here
denounces various “stupidities” of the Germans, including “the
anti-Jewish stupidity,” which he acknowledges being “infected”
with at one time (a reference to his Wagnerian period). He notes
that the Germans have “difficulty…coping with” the number of
Jews they have, which reflects the,
>
> instinct of a people [the Germans] whose type is still weak
and indeterminate enough…to be easily obliterated by a stronger
race. But the Jews are without a doubt the strongest, purest,
most tenacious race living in Europe today. They know how to
thrive in even the worst conditions….
>
> The fact that the Jews, if they wanted (or if they were
forced, as the anti-Semites seem to want), could already be
dominant, or indeed could literally have control over
present-day Europe—this is established. The fact that they are
not working and making plans to this end is likewise
established….[W]hat they wish and want instead…is to be absorbed
and assimilated into Europe…in which case it might be practical
and appropriate to throw the anti-Semitic hooligans out of the
country….
>
> This passage exemplifies Nietzsche’s typical contempt for
Germans, and it stands all the standard anti-semitic tropes of
the day on their head. Of course the Jews could control Europe,
since they are a “stronger race,” but it is “established” that
they have no interest in doing so! And precisely because they
are superior to Germans, they should be allowed to assimilate,
contrary to anti-semites, who are the ones who should really be
thrown out of the country.
> ...
> The Antichrist concludes with proposed “Laws against
Christianity” including observations like, “One should be
harsher with Protestants than with Catholics, harsher with
liberal Protestants than with orthodox ones. The criminality of
being Christian increases with your proximity to science” and
the proposal that, “The execrable locations where Christianity
brooded over its basilisk eggs should be razed to the ground…and
[p]oisonous snakes should be bred on top of it.” In the second
to last section of his autobiography Ecce Homo, Nietzsche writes
that, “What sets me apart, what singles me out over and above
the rest of humanity is the fact that I uncovered Christian
morality….Blindness when it comes to Christianity is criminality
par excellence—the crime against life.” Nietzsche never
published anything comparably vitriolic about Judaism or
synagogues. Holub, finally, admits that “Nietzche’s primary
target… is undoubtedly Christianity” (190).
> ...
> Nietzsche’s target is obviously not the religion or the
adherents, but the values they embrace—the “ascetic” moralities
(as he calls them in the Third Essay of the Genealogy) that
denounce lust for sex, wealth, cruelty, and power
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzschean_Zionism
--- Quote ---
> Nietzschean Zionism was a movement arising from the influence
that the German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche had on Zionism
and several of its influential thinkers.[1] Zionism was the
movement for the attainment of freedom for the Jewish people
through the establishment of a Jewish state.[2] Friedrich
Nietzsche's philosophy was popular among Jewish intellectuals,
incorporated into Zionism effortlessly.[3] Friedrich Nietzsche's
influence was exigent on moving away from the Jewish past into
an empowering future for the Hebraic New Man, the adoption of
his ideas necessitating the Jews to surpass the antiquarian
Jewish identity that had a rabbinical consciousness at its
center.[1] The philosopher's influence on the Zionists can then
be thought of as an existential revolution–that is, it focused
on the renewal of the Jewish identity, the adoption of aesthetic
values, and enhancing the will for life.[4]
--- End Quote ---
As for the incompatibility between identitarianism and fascism,
Romans considered anyone north of the Alps to be inferior
barbarians, which no identitarians would agree with. (On the
contrary, present-day Italian identitarians encourage northern
Italians to consider themselves closer to French/Swiss/etc. than
even to southern Italians, an attitude which Romans would surely
consider incomprehensible.)
#Post#: 17022--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: December 11, 2022, 8:40 pm
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Schopenhauer's attitude towards Judaism is much better, and
almost the same as the Gnostic attitude towards Judaism:
HTML https://books.google.com/books?id=ebZIDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA327&lpg=PA327&dq=schopenhauer+judaism&source=bl&ots=sZz67AhHfX&sig=ACfU3U0HuyD167xaD75cmp_2SMS8Pnj16A&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=schopenhauer%20judaism&f=true
--- Quote ---
> Schopenhauer's gravitation into the belief that Judaism's
fundamental monotheistic premises implicitly underlie and
inspire most of the philosophies in the western philosophical
tradition, the bulk of which he contrasts unfavorably with his
own.
> ...
> Schopenhauer's philosophical antagonism toward Judaism centers
around his rejection of a God, held to be the creator of the
world and of human free will, along with the belief that owing
to our rationality and self-consciousness, human beings are
significantly distinct in kind from, and superior to, all other
living things.
> ...
> The propositions that the world is an intelligent creation,
that it is good, that humans are free, and that humans can
rightly dominate over the animals, Schopenhauer attributes
foundationally to the Book of Genesis, which he associates
exclusively with Judaism.
> ...
> Schopenhauer further criticizes Judaism as an "optimistic"
religion as opposed to a "pessimistic" one. Optimistic
religions, or outlooks, "present the existence of the world as
justified by itself, and consequently praise it or commend it"
(WWR II, 170), whereas pessimistic religions or outlooks
conceive of the world as condemnable on moral grounds, and as
something that ought not to be. Proud to refer to himself as a
pessimist, Schopenhauer characterizes optimism as a morally
insensitive position:
>
> Still, I cannot hold back from declaring here that
optimism...strikes me as not only an absurd, but even a truly
wicked way of thinking, a bitter mockery of the unspeakable
sufferings of humanity. Do not think for a moment that Christian
doctrine is favourable to optimism; on the contrary, in the
Gospels, 'world' and 'evil' are used almost as synonymous
expressions. (WWR I, 352)
>
> For that thousands had lived in happiness and joy would never
do away with the anguish and death-agony of one individual; and
just as little does my present well-being undo my previous
sufferings.
--- End Quote ---
The part in bold shows Schopenhauer's high opinion of
Christianity, contrary to Nietzsche's low opinion. Both
Schopenhauer and Nietzsche possessed highly accurate (and hence
virtually identical) understandings of both Judaism and
Christianity: it is purely their opposite personalities leading
them to draw opposite conclusions about the two religions.
#Post#: 17023--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
DIR By: rp
Date: December 11, 2022, 8:42 pm
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"One thing identitarians share with Nietzsche is dislike of
Christianity. On the other hand, identitarians also dislike
Judaism whereas Nietzsche liked Judaism. Indeed, identitarians
dislike Judaism and Christianity for the same shallow xenophobic
reason (both are of "non-European" origin) whereas Nietzsche at
least bothered to distinguish between the content of the two,
and considered Judaic values more compatible with the quest for
the Overman (I agree with this, since the Overman is
fundamentally a progressive ambition, and Judaism is also
fundamentally progressive)."
This explains Spencer's view on space travel and Jews. Nietzsche
would correctly identify Jews as being pro space travel since
they are progressivists, and being a committed progressivist
himself, he would have to acknowledge the progressivism of other
progressivisists. Spencer, being an identitarian, must portray
"non Europeans" as non progressives.
All this illustrates why identitarianism is not a serious
ideology in the slightest.
#Post#: 17204--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
DIR By: antihellenistic
Date: December 24, 2022, 7:58 am
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Seems Nietzscheanism worldview is like Homer, Faustian, and
Darwinian worldview which emphasize human's potential and
creativity rather than their original condition like weakness
and sensivity, to achieve more joy and benefit from this
material world. Correct me if I'm wrong....
#Post#: 17206--------------------------------------------------
Re: Arthur Schopenhauer vs Friedrich Nietzsche
DIR By: guest98
Date: December 24, 2022, 12:59 pm
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I see Nietzscheanism as a response against the man which he
classified as "human all too human", basically the modern man
who is restrained in his instincts by current moral, social and
societal norms. Nietzsche's ideal is basically the man of past
ages who was more direct, unapologetic and unhypocritical in his
quest for will to power. However the true noble ideal is to try
to recover one's lost original nobility, although very difficult
in this world. Especially in the west, with its suburban nuclear
family sprawl. Add to that the internal divisions, the internal
civil war produced by western democracy, with it's different
political "tribes" always competing with each other for power.
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