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#Post#: 8372--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
By: v3456 Date: August 27, 2021, 12:56 pm
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[quote author=Cthens link=topic=159.msg8367#msg8367
date=1630067766]
@kameradbaren what do you think the Russians thought and think
of Hijab or Islam in general? They abhor it. They persecuted
Muslims, not white Europeans in the Soviet time. And today, well
just turn on Russian TV and see what they say about "Islam"
[/quote]
I am not kameradbaren but I'll answer anyway. USSR government
did not persecute people for being Muslim. They persecuted local
religious authorities who used their religion as a means of
oppressing women. Central Asia before Bolsheviks was basically
feudal, where local warlords had unlimited control over people
which allowed brutal customs to flourish. Some women were killed
for their refusal to cover their hair:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurkhon_Yuldashkhojayeva
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tursunoy_Saidazimova
Contrary to some people's assumption, Bolsheviks did not force
women to remove their hijab, they simply allowed them to do so -
which was previously forbidden by religious law. You can find
many photos of Central Asian women still wearing different types
of head covering:
HTML https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a2/2b/02/a22b02193a851855cadf532be81dc2dc.jpg
HTML https://fergana.med
ia/siteapi/media/images/6364df34-4f99-4c2a-be21-7038328a4646.jpe
g
HTML https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9172/97833783.59c/0_cc9ef_2572a0c_XXXL.jpg
The mentioning of White people here is even more irrelevant. Why
do you care if these Muslim people from Central Asia are
"Turanian" anyway? You guys are ready to call every Asian person
in Central Asia a Turanian and then use them to provoke
emotional response when needed for your propaganda, am I right?
I guess, Turanians are people too and their lives matter - but
only when you need to slander Soviet Union...
And for the 100th time: whatever Russia today says is irrelevant
when we discuss Soviet Union. USSR and contemporary Russia are
very different. The Russian government was build by people who
knowingly destroyed Soviet system, ffs! Do you people really
think that people who destroyed Soviet system and everything it
stood for would have the same opinion as Soviets?
#Post#: 8378--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
By: SirGalahad Date: August 27, 2021, 2:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]If you keep lying about Hitler not being racist - what
else are you lying about?[/quote]
I'm not lying. I'm just skeptical about the general narrative,
because I've already discovered that other aspects pertaining to
the ideology and its history were false. Notice how I haven't
made a single definitive claim once. I've only put forth
suggestions, and yet you're accusing me of deliberately leading
people astray. If I'm lying to anyone, it's far more likely that
I'm lying to myself since I have more of a particular fondness
for one side of the narrative than the other.
[quote]90sRetroFan insists that White people must apologize for
everything they've done[/quote]
What are you trying to insinuate with this comment? Elaborate.
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt, but this whole
"attack on white people" argument is put forth almost
exclusively by rightists when they get defensive.
[quote]Hitler's own infallibility would have been irrelevant if
Aryanist ideology did not proclaim an absolute cult of
personality claiming to "emulating Hitler's own life
journey"[/quote]
The two aren't mutually exclusive. The articles over on the main
site criticize Hitler's personal decisions multiple times. That
doesn't mean that fallible people aren't worth emulating in
certain respects.
[quote]USSR government did not persecute people for being
Muslim. They persecuted local religious authorities who used
their religion as a means of oppressing women.[/quote]
[quote]And for the 100th time: whatever Russia today says is
irrelevant when we discuss Soviet Union. USSR and contemporary
Russia are very different. The Russian government was build by
people who knowingly destroyed Soviet system, ffs! Do you people
really think that people who destroyed Soviet system and
everything it stood for would have the same opinion as
Soviets?[/quote]
We're not referring to the Soviet Union specifically. That's the
whole point. Contemporary Russia is what we're criticizing here,
hence why the topic comes up fairly recently on this forum,
since it's primarily a news forum.
#Post#: 8379--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
By: guest30 Date: August 27, 2021, 3:06 pm
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@SirGalahad, Emily's best friend, fellow Nazi comrades
[quote][quote]USSR government did not persecute people for being
Muslim. They persecuted local religious authorities who used
their religion as a means of oppressing women.[/quote]
[quote]He's not referring to the USSR specifically, when he's
referring to Russia. That's the whole point. Contemporary Russia
is what we're criticizing here.[/quote]
[/quote]
See the documentary video about Muslim people in today Russia,
even they more loyal to the government...
HTML https://youtu.be/rv4tOgPUqUo
#Post#: 8380--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
By: SirGalahad Date: August 27, 2021, 3:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]In other word, serious racism rarely happen in Russia,
and even tough if Russian people are "more racist" towards
foreign "colored Non-White European" people, at least their
governments make a policy that oppose racism and oppression,
like assisting nations that troubled by terrorism like Syria and
Central Africa Republic (Congo), helping China and Iran against
NATO nations's economic embargo and military agression, and
helping today Afghanistan which liberated by Taliban Islamic
people, so Russia is good for bilateral relationship for a
nation[/quote]
This is true, so in that context I agree with you. But I still
believe that an Aryanist-leaning movement is more likely to
occur in America than in Russia, for the reasons that I gave
before.
"Organic civilization demands rooting in its own mythology - in
the New World even more so, expressly because our nations are
nations of immigrants longing to be unified under a compelling
common vision. The rise of a New World civilization first
requires that post-colonial Americans of all origins declare
that we migrated here not merely to seek a better life away from
the Old World, but to help our fellow swastika bearers of
antiquity rebuild our Lost City. What two Aryan bloodlines began
in prehistory that had since come so close to being completely
forgotten, Aryan bloodlines brought in from all over the planet
can together now remember, resume and complete: this time, not
the Atlantis that was, but the Atlantis that was meant to be."
"So many races that have come and others that will come. In this
manner, a sensitive and ample heart will be taking shape within
us; a heart that embraces and contains everything and is moved
with sympathy, but, full of vigor, imposes new laws upon the
world. … We in America shall arrive, before any other part of
the world, at the creation of a new race fashioned out of the
treasures of all the previous ones: The final race, the cosmic
race." - Jose Vasconcelos
My country's participation in past exploitation is regrettable
and if I held power, I would do everything possible to make
amends for it. But the Americas are merely occupied by the West.
America is a victim of the West, and of colonialism. By
definition, it's impossible to be American and yet side with the
Western powers, since the Western powers aren't a part of the
Americas to begin with. America (non-western) ≠ the United
States (western)
#Post#: 8384--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
By: SirGalahad Date: August 27, 2021, 3:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Also:
[quote]Hitler's ideology NOT YET DEAD in Western Europe, so
Western Europe must be annihilated[/quote]
This doesn't explain why all of the Western capitalist powers
collectively decided to attack Nazi Germany at once. Clearly
they aren't nearly as close to being allies as you say they are,
or else they would have left Nazi Germany alone. You're saying
that the countries who went out of their way to defeat Nazi
Germany during the war, are the same exact side of the coin as
Nazi Germany? That doesn't make sense
#Post#: 8387--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
By: guest30 Date: August 27, 2021, 3:53 pm
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@SirGalahad, Emily's best friends, fellow Nazi comrade, and
Anglophilic people
[quote]My country's participation in past exploitation is
regrettable and if I held power, I would do everything possible
to make amends for it.[/quote]
Good intention
[quote]But the Americas are merely occupied by the West. America
is a victim of the West, and of colonialism. ...[/quote]
United States people during British (United Kingdom)
colonization did not suffer enslavement and segregration, just
suffer domination of British in their government because... they
are fellow "White European Germanic" people, and fellow "White"
people not enslave each other, but enslave any of "Non-White
Colored European" people, so, your saying that "America" were
victim of Western European colonialism is just playing victim
strategy to make United States people gain sympathy from the
world, remembering during United States were "colonized" by the
British, their people also ruthlessly segregrate and enslave
"Colored Black" people and red skin native people of "America"
continent
[quote]This doesn't explain why all of the Western capitalist
powers collectively decided to attack Nazi Germany at once.
Clearly they aren't nearly as close to being allies as you say
they are, or else they would have left Nazi Germany alone.
You're saying that the countries who went out of their way to
defeat Nazi Germany during the war, are the same exact side of
the coin as Nazi Germany? That doesn't make sense[/quote]
Western European nations collectively defeat Nazi Germany, but
they still use foreign policies which same like Nazi Germany
after the World War 2 end, repel the spread of socialist
struggle from Soviet Russia with military and economic action
and keep colonizing the world with their "White Supremacy" ideas
which also found on Hitler National [s]Socialist[/s] Racialist
ideology
#Post#: 8389--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
By: SirGalahad Date: August 27, 2021, 4:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]so, your saying that "America" were victim of Western
European colonialism is just playing victim strategy to make
United States people gain sympathy from the world[/quote]
America has a pre-colonial history that stretches far back,
thousands of years before Western colonialists ever set foot on
the land. What matters is which side you take, politically. Is
the country a land of natives and well-meaning immigrants
convening together to create something new, or is it a land
conquered by tribal colonialists through the concept of Manifest
Destiny, at the behest of the West? We side with the former,
instead of the latter
#Post#: 8394--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
By: Cthens Date: August 27, 2021, 4:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=v3456 link=topic=159.msg8371#msg8371
date=1630084414]
[quote author=SirGalahad link=topic=159.msg8350#msg8350
date=1630030655]
@kameradbaren @v3456 Even supposing that any of your assertions
about Hitler are correct, what does that have to do with the
validity of our actual policies?
Hitler doesn't have to be an ideologically blameless and
infallible man for the concept of the Aryan race to hold weight.
[/quote]
As I previously said: You are spreading false information. You
are trying to fill the minds of people with incorrect
information that ultimately leads to wrong assumptions.
Everyone who studied Mein Kampf and Hitler's actual racial
policies is able to put the facts together and deduce that
you're dishonest. If you keep lying about Hitler not being
racist - what else are you lying about? You are distorting a
fundamentally good premise of rebranding National Socialism as a
non-racist ideology into very lame historical revisionism that
crumbles every time a person with some historical knowledge is
trying to investigate your claims. You can see it in every post
on the main site blog - people come every once in a while, say
something rational like: "Guys, I like your ideology very much,
but this revisionist nonsense must go..." Only to get ignored or
banned.
While some of your ideas may be noble, your methods are ignoble.
You are going to lead astray many anti-racist
National-Socialists and convince them they must believe in
everything the main site claims instead of studying history
rationally, learning from their mistakes and letting go of the
toxic historical past. 90sRetroFan insists that White people
must apologize for everything they've done, so it's only fair
for you either a) to accept guilt and apologize instead of
claiming that "it didn't happen... but they deserved it anyway";
b) letting go of Hitlerism and starting anew.
Hitler's own infallibility would have been irrelevant if
Aryanist ideology did not proclaim an absolute cult of
personality claiming to "emulating Hitler's own life journey".
By turning a personality into a cult you become responsible for
the justification of wrongdoings of such personality. Your own
approach is also dishonest towards Hitler himself, who was a
White supremacist and racist - so yes, despite the fact that I
don't like Hitler, I gotta admit that you are disrespecting his
personal views.
[/quote]
I actually agree with this. I don't claim Hitler wasn't
prejudiced against black people and culture, but I do claim he
wasn't mistreating black German citizens. This does not come
from anet, but my own experience with Germans who lived in
Berlin and my black American grandfather in Germany during WW2.
I also have no issue with Germany for the Germans and America
for the Americans and believe we are doing a disservice by
pretending that isn't a part of National Socialism.
With that being said the writers if Anet and 90sRetroFan has
done more work, and more meaningful work with this topic than
anyone else and I would never try to usurp that.
But the idea that Hitler's views of black people didn't change
after mein kampf is ridiculous, and you can see it in the last
books he authored. Much of which is quoted here and on anet
#Post#: 8396--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
By: SirGalahad Date: August 27, 2021, 4:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]I also have no issue with Germany for the Germans and
America for the Americans and believe we are doing a disservice
by pretending that isn't a part of National Socialism.[/quote]
I have an issue with it, because people should be able to choose
where they live. Nobody chooses to be born in a specific place,
and it would require initiated violence to keep people out,
which we're against. Plus, that very sentence underlines the
issue: Germany and America are totally different examples and
they aren't comparable at all. What's an American? Americans can
be "white", or "black", or Native American, or any of a number
of other ethnicities. Americans aren't defined by ethnicity to
begin with, and yet you're using it as an example to justify
keeping Germany ethnically pure.
[quote]But the idea that Hitler's views of black people didn't
change after mein kampf is ridiculous[/quote]
In their defense, 90sRetroFan's position isn't that Hitler's
views changed after Mein Kampf. The position is that Mein Kampf
was written to bolster himself as a politician, which Hitler
confirmed in a quote. What we should be figuring out is both
where and what exactly the misinformation in Mein Kampf is, that
Hitler spoke of
#Post#: 8397--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
By: Cthens Date: August 27, 2021, 4:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=SirGalahad link=topic=159.msg8396#msg8396
date=1630100198]
[quote]I also have no issue with Germany for the Germans and
America for the Americans and believe we are doing a disservice
by pretending that isn't a part of National Socialism.[/quote]
I have an issue with it, because people should be able to choose
where they live. Nobody chooses to be born in a specific place,
and it would require initiated violence to keep people out,
which we're against. Plus, that very sentence underlines the
issue: Germany and America are totally different examples and
they aren't comparable at all. What's an American? Americans can
be "white", or "black", or Native American, or any of a number
of other ethnicities. Americans aren't defined by ethnicity to
begin with, and yet you're using it as an example to justify
keeping Germany ethnically pure.
[quote]But the idea that Hitler's views of black people didn't
change after mein kampf is ridiculous[/quote]
In their defense, 90sRetroFan's position isn't that Hitler's
views changed after Mein Kampf. The position is that Mein Kampf
was written to bolster himself as a politician.
[/quote]
There is a huge difference. There were not 4 different colors of
people building Germany. Its not about ethnicity its about
blood. If all Americans traced their ancestry back to 1800 as
required by Germany, black people would not be excluded. And it
goes without saying that Americans from the arctic to Chile
would be deemed Americans. Also America is a different nation
than Germany, and what we want to preserve was built on noble
people from all over the world. The same can not be said for
Germany. And the initiated violence would undoubtedly be the
attempt to rule over a people you did not help build.
There is absolutely nothing in national socialism that suggests
anyone should be able to have power anywhere. Move there, yes,
integrate, if possible, but it would be a disastrous and
ridiculous idea to say an Englishman should have power in
Mexico, or a swede power in Japan. Although if something is
superior it should always be integrated. My disagreement here is
not with national socialism, but with a rather minor policy of
anet. Blood is important to us right? How does that translate
into letting just anyone from anywhere rule over Americans or
Germans or Arabs.
But you are 100% correct about Mein Kampf
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