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#Post#: 8827--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: Dazhbog
Date: September 16, 2021, 3:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> And the fact is Papuan people want the more luxury and
comfortable living from Western standards which already shown to
them, so this is task of Nusantara government to give what they
want after they integrate them as fellow Nusantara people
--- End Quote ---
People who desire a Western lifestyle cannot be considered
fellow Nusantarans in the first place.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> if you consider industrialization were bad, then you must
condemn Suharto regime's attempt to industrialize Western
Nusantara too
--- End Quote ---
No. The fact that he would deliberately limit his
industrialization efforts to a particular area is actually
strong evidence that he viewed it purely as a means to avoid
recolonization by the Dutch and the Portuguese and thus did not
seek to implement it on a scale larger than absolutely
necessary.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> That is same to what Stalin did to Russian people
--- End Quote ---
No. If that had really been the case, the Soviet Union wouldn't
have been able to launch its space program amid post-war
reconstruction:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program#Sputnik_and_Vostok
--- Quote ---
> The Soviet space program was tied to the USSR's Five-Year
Plans and from the start was reliant on support from the Soviet
military.
>
> ...
>
> Nonetheless, the first Soviet rocket with animals aboard
launched in July 1951; the two dogs were recovered alive after
reaching 101 km in altitude. Two months ahead of America's first
such achievement, this and subsequent flights gave the Soviets
valuable experience with space medicine.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> the difference between how Sukarno and Suharto industrialize
Nusantara is, Sukarno give that thing without discriminated
people from other racial background, but Suharto was did that
--- End Quote ---
So Sukarno did give in to the Papuans' desire for a colonized
lifestyle after all, proving his inferiority to Suharto.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> No, Soviet Russia not forcibly wanted the nation whom she
helped to became their dominated territory
--- End Quote ---
This isn't what sphere of influence means.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> And Stalin did not do that thing to all people who are have
other than "White" racial background, and he not did that
because racial reason
--- End Quote ---
Once again:
--- Quote from: Dazhbog link ---
> What matters is that Stalin treated people based on categories
they themselves didn't choose.
--- End Quote ---
You are illiterate!
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Hitler cannot tolerate some people whom he considered as enemy
of the state if they have "Colored Non-White European" blood
--- End Quote ---
Like whom?
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> [color=red]By 1947, American and European anger at Soviet
control over Eastern Europe led to a Cold War
--- End Quote ---
Thank your for admitting that the Cold War started neither
because of Stalin's supposed hatred for the Anglosphere- and
future EU/NATO-countries nor due to his supposed
anti-colonialist stance, but because of [b]the Anglosphere- and
future EU/NATO-countries' dislike of the Soviet occupation of
the future Warsaw Pact-countries. In other words, the Cold War
started out as completely unrelated to the anti-colonial
struggle and not even on Stalin's initiative.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Do you know that using air conditioner is make yourself
comfortable?
--- End Quote ---
Do you know that you wouldn't have to use air conditioning to
feel comfortable if you weren't wearing Western suits?
#Post#: 8830--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: guest30
Date: September 16, 2021, 9:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@Dazhbog, Hitlerist, [size=14pt]Leftist, and Anglophile[/size]
--- Quote ---
> [quote]if you consider industrialization were bad, then you
must condemn Suharto regime's attempt to industrialize Western
Nusantara too
--- End Quote ---
No. The fact that he would deliberately limit his
industrialization efforts to a particular area is actually
strong evidence that he viewed it purely as a means to avoid
recolonization by the Dutch and the Portuguese and thus did not
seek to implement it on a scale larger than absolutely
necessary.[/quote]
that is impossible to see Dutch and Portuguese to recolonize
Papua even tough had Papua territory to be industrialized,
seeing it already guarded by Nusantara military regime during
Suharto era
--- Quote ---
> [quote]the difference between how Sukarno and Suharto
industrialize Nusantara is, Sukarno give that thing without
discriminated people from other racial background, but Suharto
was did that
--- End Quote ---
So Sukarno did give in to the Papuans' desire for a colonized
lifestyle after all, proving his inferiority to Suharto.[/quote]
Soon you will also think that Suharto are the proper leader for
Nusantara, because he turn our people to be hostile towards
Soviet Russia and communism and instead ally with Capitalist
Anglophile... Even until now Nusantara people more hostile and
afraid towards communism rather than the United States troops
who came to our land to make a joint training, total betrayal to
the fatherland... That is the legacy of Suharto leadership,
capitalism, Anglophile, and decadence of my people
--- Quote ---
> [quote]And Stalin did not do that thing to all people who are
have other than "White" racial background, and he not did that
because racial reason
--- End Quote ---
Once again:
What matters is that Stalin treated people based on categories
they themselves didn't choose.
You are illiterate![/quote]
And Stalin's categorization is not racial, but class-based, so
that is still can be tolerated, different on what Hitler's
categorization
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Hitler cannot tolerate some people whom he considered
as enemy of the state if they have "Colored Non-White European"
blood
--- End Quote ---
Like whom?[/quote]
If you agree with the historical event of Rhineland Bastards,
you will agree with my statement
--- Quote ---
> [quote]By 1947, American and European anger at Soviet control
over Eastern Europe led to a Cold War
--- End Quote ---
Thank your for admitting that the Cold War started neither
because of Stalin's supposed hatred for the Anglosphere- and
future EU/NATO-countries nor due to his supposed
anti-colonialist stance, but because of the Anglosphere- and
future EU/NATO-countries' dislike of the Soviet occupation of
the future Warsaw Pact-countries. In other words, the Cold War
started out as completely unrelated to the anti-colonial
struggle and [b]not even on Stalin's initiative.[/b][/quote]
And the legacy of Stalin Soviet Russia is the struggle of
anti-colonial action by Russian people, while the legacy of
Franklin Delano Roosevelt "America" was implementation of
oppressive economic system to the rest of the world and keep
assisting colonial nations of Western Europe
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Do you know that using air conditioner is make yourself
comfortable?
--- End Quote ---
Do you know that you wouldn't have to use air conditioning to
feel comfortable if you weren't wearing Western suits?[/quote]
Do you know that wearing 1960s counterculture clothes make you
like street gang and thieves people, and also ugly?
#Post#: 8837--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: Dazhbog
Date: September 16, 2021, 12:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> that is impossible to see Dutch and Portuguese to recolonize
Papua even tough had Papua territory to be industrialized,
seeing it already guarded by Nusantara military regime during
Suharto era
--- End Quote ---
The Dutch initiated violence when they industrialized Papua. Had
Suharto, for no other reason than to satisfy the ignoble
Papuans' thirst for a colonized lifestyle, continued the
industrialization process the Dutch started, he would have
perpetuated the violence they initiated, even if Nusantara
formally controlled Papua.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Soon you will also think that Suharto are the proper leader
for Nusantara
--- End Quote ---
Based on the information you've given me, he was at least a
better anti-colonialist than Sukarno.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Even until now Nusantara people more hostile and afraid
towards communism rather than the United States troops who came
to our land to make a joint training, total betrayal to the
fatherland
--- End Quote ---
No, that's Nusantaran common sense. Communism is after all the
ideology of the East Timorese separatists, who killed countless
Nusantarans in order to perpetuate violence initiated against
Nusantara by the Portuguese. In contrast, by training Nusantaran
soldiers, the Americans improve Nusantara's fighting
capabilities, which hopefully will be used to reunify Timor and
annihilate what is left of the Papuan separatists one day.
Communism is hostile to Nusantara, whereas America is not.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> that is still can be tolerated
--- End Quote ---
No. Forcing people into categories they didn't choose is
initiatory violence, regardless how these categories are
defined.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Rhineland Bastards
--- End Quote ---
The problem wasn't that they were non-"white", but that they
were the offspring of French occupation soldiers descended from
colonized populations and "white" German civilians.
On part of the soldiers, this implies reproductive eurocentrism
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/reproductive-decolonization/<br
/>as well as a lack of will to resist French colonialism, going
as
far as to actually take up arms for their colonizers.
On part of the civilians, this implies what I will call
reproductive exoticism for lack of a better term (please tell me
if you know one), meaning that they were still racist but merely
fetishized their reproductive partners' "non-whiteness". In
addition, by reproducing with enemy soldiers, they demonstrated
their complete lack of commitment to their folk.
In summary, in the case of the Rhineland Bastards, both parents
could be assumed to be of extremely low quality. Thus,
sterilizing them so that their low quality blood wouldn't seep
into the German gene pool was the right thing to do.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> And the legacy of Stalin Soviet Russia is the struggle of
anti-colonial action by Russian people
--- End Quote ---
No. They supported the creation of Israel and East Timor after
all.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Do you know that wearing 1960s counterculture clothes make you
like street gang and thieves people, and also ugly?
--- End Quote ---
Even if you don't like counterculture clothes, you could still
wear Nusantaran ones.
#Post#: 8842--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: guest30
Date: September 16, 2021, 7:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
@Dazhbog, Leftist, Anglophile, Hitlerist
--- Quote ---
> [quote]that is impossible to see Dutch and Portuguese to
recolonize Papua even tough had Papua territory to be
industrialized, seeing it already guarded by Nusantara military
regime during Suharto era
--- End Quote ---
The Dutch initiated violence when they industrialized Papua. Had
Suharto, for no other reason than to satisfy the ignoble
Papuans' thirst for a colonized lifestyle, continued the
industrialization process the Dutch started, he would have
perpetuated the violence they initiated, even if Nusantara
formally controlled Papua.[/quote]
Then, Suharto also commit total violence according to you,
because he gave industrialized way of life which you hate to
Western Nusantaran people also
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Soon you will also think that Suharto are the proper
leader for Nusantara
--- End Quote ---
Based on the information you've given me, he was at least a
better anti-colonialist than Sukarno.[/quote]
No, he was Javanese (One of ethnic of Nusantara people)
supremacist, he more concerned to well-being of Javanese people
above everyone else
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Even until now Nusantara people more hostile and afraid
towards communism rather than the United States troops who came
to our land to make a joint training, total betrayal to the
fatherland
--- End Quote ---
No, that's Nusantaran common sense. Communism is after all the
ideology of the East Timorese separatists, who killed countless
Nusantarans in order to perpetuate violence initiated against
Nusantara by the Portuguese. In contrast, by training Nusantaran
soldiers, the Americans improve Nusantara's fighting
capabilities, which hopefully will be used to reunify Timor and
annihilate what is left of the Papuan separatists one day.
Communism is hostile to Nusantara, whereas America is
not.[/quote]
No, Nusantara people became afraid of communism since false-flag
operation to overthrow Sukarno commited by Nusantara high
ranking officials who disguised themselves as a "Communist" who
killed many Nusantara high ranking officials with assistance of
United States and British secret agent, they helped spread false
information to Nusantara people about the event of mass
killings, so the Nusantara society believe that it was
"Communist" people who made that mass killings, in fact it was
their own Nusantara high ranking officials who did that, and
from that, because people began afraid communism, Suharto take
advantage from that situation with his confidants to overthrow
Sukarno and accused him of "Communist sympathizer", and that
false flag operation is part of British and United States's
illegal subversion activity to made Nusantara which formerly
ally with socialist nation like China and Soviet Russia to
hostile to them and forced to side with capitalist nations
Western Europe and United States under wrong pretext of
anti-communist action, and actually Western Europe and United
States use that event as a opportunity to enable their
debt-based Western European economic system to Nusantara, which
Suharto consider that economic system as "a way to increase the
economic power of Nusantara", but actually not, he just made
Nusantara had more debt to Western European elites
Remember that before "Communist coup" in 30 September 1965, or
popularly called as "G30SPKI", Communist ideology was very
popular among Nusantara people, even Sukarno like communist, he
allowed communist party and their people to live and operate in
Nusantara under his control...
Historical photo of Communist propaganda photo included photo of
Sukarno, even he portrayed with wear Western suit
HTML https://blue.kumparan.com/image/upload/fl_progressive,fl_lossy,c_fill,q_auto:best,w_640/v1488436206/images_yhqq4j.jpg
And also, why Sukarno more prefer communist rather than
capitalist, of course same like what I said, Communist ideology
is not racist ideology, and it can be proved on how Communist
nations was more friendly to colonized people rather than
Western European capitalist nation, see this information :
"Then why during his reign, Soekarno, was very close to the
communist state? Soekarno once said that his closeness to
communist countries was due to them (communist-minded countries)
accepting him as a partner, a friend in arms, accepting Soekarno
warmly as a friend. Not as a servant, not as lowly as the
capitalist nation treats him. Soekarno's many state visits to
communist countries were always warmly welcomed by the people
and leaders of communist countries. Not as enemies, but as
friends, not as lowly but as partners. These things made
Soekarno as President of the Republic of Indonesia cooperate in
various aspects, especially the economy, politics, military and
others."
Source :
HTML https://kumparan.com/anju-nofarof-hasudungan/soekarno-jatuh-cinta-pada-marxisme-di-usia-19-tahun/full
If you consider that communism support colonialism, then you are
false
--- Quote ---
> [quote]that is still can be tolerated
--- End Quote ---
No. Forcing people into categories they didn't choose is
initiatory violence, regardless how these categories are
defined.[/quote]
Hitler also forcing people into categories they didn't choose
through his racial law
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Rhineland Bastards
--- End Quote ---
The problem wasn't that they were non-"white", but that they
were the offspring of French occupation soldiers descended from
colonized populations and "white" German civilians.
On part of the soldiers, this implies reproductive eurocentrism
as well as a lack of will to resist French colonialism, going as
far as to actually take up arms for their colonizers.
On part of the civilians, this implies what I will call
reproductive exoticism for lack of a better term (please tell me
if you know one), meaning that they were still racist but merely
fetishized their reproductive partners' "non-whiteness". In
addition, by reproducing with enemy soldiers, they demonstrated
their complete lack of commitment to their folk.
In summary, in the case of the Rhineland Bastards, both parents
could be assumed to be of extremely low quality. Thus,
sterilizing them so that their low quality blood wouldn't seep
into the German gene pool was the right thing to do.[/quote]
No, because Hitler hated "black" people, and racial mixing of
"White European" people and another "Colored Race" people
endangered the existence of "White Race", in accordance with his
thought in his ideological book "Mein Kampf", see this
information, even "black" people forbidden to got fair education
like how "Native White German" people got education and
prohibited to got some job that "Native White German" people can
got...
"A subsequent ruling confirmed that black people (like
“gypsies”) were to be regarded as being “of alien blood” and
subject to the Nuremberg principles. Very few people of African
descent had German citizenship, even if they were born in
Germany, but this became irreversible when they were given
passports that designated them as “stateless negroes”.
In 1941, black children were officially excluded from public
schools, but most of them had suffered racial abuse in their
classrooms much earlier. Some were forced out of school and none
were permitted to go on to university or professional training.
Published interviews and memoirs by both men and women,
unpublished testimony and post-war compensation claims testify
to these and other shared experiences.
Employment prospects which were already poor before 1933 got
worse afterwards. Unable to find regular work, some were drafted
for forced labour as “foreign workers” during World War II.
Films and stage shows making propaganda for the return of
Germany’s African colonies became one of the few sources of
income, especially after black people were banned from other
kinds of public performance in 1939."
Source :
HTML https://theconversation.com/what-happened-to-black-germans-under-the-nazis-53599
The conclusion is, your statement that Hitler prohibited racial
mixing between "White European German" people and people of
another races because of preventing offsprings who potentially
had Eurocentrism behaviour because of heritage from their
parents on their Eurocentrist behaviour is just your artificial
interpretation of Nazi ideology in order to make Nazi ideology
is not racist, there is no such thing like Eurocentrism problem
are discussed in Nazi racial issue
--- Quote ---
> [quote]And the legacy of Stalin Soviet Russia is the struggle
of anti-colonial action by Russian people
--- End Quote ---
No. They supported the creation of Israel and East Timor after
all.[/quote]
Soviet Russia temporarily support Israel, and Western European
nations even did not recognize Palestine, that is the
difference, if you still ignoring this facts, you are confirmed
bias Anglophile
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Do you know that wearing 1960s counterculture clothes
make you like street gang and thieves people, and also ugly?
--- End Quote ---
Even if you don't like counterculture clothes, you could still
wear Nusantaran ones.
[/quote]
I consider Nusantaran clothes even more ugly rather than 1960s
counterculture clothes, and if Western suits are bad, then the
whole world not like it
#Post#: 8850--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: Cthens
Date: September 16, 2021, 9:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
>
> @Dazhbog, Leftist, Anglophile, Hitlerist
>
> [quote][quote]that is impossible to see Dutch and Portuguese
to recolonize Papua even tough had Papua territory to be
industrialized, seeing it already guarded by Nusantara military
regime during Suharto era
--- End Quote ---
The Dutch initiated violence when they industrialized Papua. Had
Suharto, for no other reason than to satisfy the ignoble
Papuans' thirst for a colonized lifestyle, continued the
industrialization process the Dutch started, he would have
perpetuated the violence they initiated, even if Nusantara
formally controlled Papua.[/quote]
Then, Suharto also commit total violence according to you,
because he gave industrialized way of life which you hate to
Western Nusantaran people also
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Soon you will also think that Suharto are the proper
leader for Nusantara
--- End Quote ---
Based on the information you've given me, he was at least a
better anti-colonialist than Sukarno.[/quote]
No, he was Javanese (One of ethnic of Nusantara people)
supremacist, he more concerned to well-being of Javanese people
above everyone else
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Even until now Nusantara people more hostile and afraid
towards communism rather than the United States troops who came
to our land to make a joint training, total betrayal to the
fatherland
--- End Quote ---
No, that's Nusantaran common sense. Communism is after all the
ideology of the East Timorese separatists, who killed countless
Nusantarans in order to perpetuate violence initiated against
Nusantara by the Portuguese. In contrast, by training Nusantaran
soldiers, the Americans improve Nusantara's fighting
capabilities, which hopefully will be used to reunify Timor and
annihilate what is left of the Papuan separatists one day.
Communism is hostile to Nusantara, whereas America is
not.[/quote]
No, Nusantara people became afraid of communism since false-flag
operation to overthrow Sukarno commited by Nusantara high
ranking officials who disguised themselves as a "Communist" who
killed many Nusantara high ranking officials with assistance of
United States and British secret agent, they helped spread false
information to Nusantara people about the event of mass
killings, so the Nusantara society believe that it was
"Communist" people who made that mass killings, in fact it was
their own Nusantara high ranking officials who did that, and
from that, because people began afraid communism, Suharto take
advantage from that situation with his confidants to overthrow
Sukarno and accused him of "Communist sympathizer", and that
false flag operation is part of British and United States's
illegal subversion activity to made Nusantara which formerly
ally with socialist nation like China and Soviet Russia to
hostile to them and forced to side with capitalist nations
Western Europe and United States under wrong pretext of
anti-communist action, and actually Western Europe and United
States use that event as a opportunity to enable their
debt-based Western European economic system to Nusantara, which
Suharto consider that economic system as "a way to increase the
economic power of Nusantara", but actually not, he just made
Nusantara had more debt to Western European elites
Remember that before "Communist coup" in 30 September 1965, or
popularly called as "G30SPKI", Communist ideology was very
popular among Nusantara people, even Sukarno like communist, he
allowed communist party and their people to live and operate in
Nusantara under his control...
Historical photo of Communist propaganda photo included photo of
Sukarno, even he portrayed with wear Western suit
HTML https://blue.kumparan.com/image/upload/fl_progressive,fl_lossy,c_fill,q_auto:best,w_640/v1488436206/images_yhqq4j.jpg
And also, why Sukarno more prefer communist rather than
capitalist, of course same like what I said, Communist ideology
is not racist ideology, and it can be proved on how Communist
nations was more friendly to colonized people rather than
Western European capitalist nation, see this information :
"Then why during his reign, Soekarno, was very close to the
communist state? Soekarno once said that his closeness to
communist countries was due to them (communist-minded countries)
accepting him as a partner, a friend in arms, accepting Soekarno
warmly as a friend. Not as a servant, not as lowly as the
capitalist nation treats him. Soekarno's many state visits to
communist countries were always warmly welcomed by the people
and leaders of communist countries. Not as enemies, but as
friends, not as lowly but as partners. These things made
Soekarno as President of the Republic of Indonesia cooperate in
various aspects, especially the economy, politics, military and
others."
Source :
HTML https://kumparan.com/anju-nofarof-hasudungan/soekarno-jatuh-cinta-pada-marxisme-di-usia-19-tahun/full
If you consider that communism support colonialism, then you are
false
--- Quote ---
> [quote]that is still can be tolerated
--- End Quote ---
No. Forcing people into categories they didn't choose is
initiatory violence, regardless how these categories are
defined.[/quote]
Hitler also forcing people into categories they didn't choose
through his racial law
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Rhineland Bastards
--- End Quote ---
The problem wasn't that they were non-"white", but that they
were the offspring of French occupation soldiers descended from
colonized populations and "white" German civilians.
On part of the soldiers, this implies reproductive eurocentrism
as well as a lack of will to resist French colonialism, going as
far as to actually take up arms for their colonizers.
On part of the civilians, this implies what I will call
reproductive exoticism for lack of a better term (please tell me
if you know one), meaning that they were still racist but merely
fetishized their reproductive partners' "non-whiteness". In
addition, by reproducing with enemy soldiers, they demonstrated
their complete lack of commitment to their folk.
In summary, in the case of the Rhineland Bastards, both parents
could be assumed to be of extremely low quality. Thus,
sterilizing them so that their low quality blood wouldn't seep
into the German gene pool was the right thing to do.[/quote]
No, because Hitler hated "black" people, and racial mixing of
"White European" people and another "Colored Race" people
endangered the existence of "White Race", in accordance with his
thought in his ideological book "Mein Kampf", see this
information, even "black" people forbidden to got fair education
like how "Native White German" people got education and
prohibited to got some job that "Native White German" people can
got...
"A subsequent ruling confirmed that black people (like
“gypsies”) were to be regarded as being “of alien blood” and
subject to the Nuremberg principles. Very few people of African
descent had German citizenship, even if they were born in
Germany, but this became irreversible when they were given
passports that designated them as “stateless negroes”.
In 1941, black children were officially excluded from public
schools, but most of them had suffered racial abuse in their
classrooms much earlier. Some were forced out of school and none
were permitted to go on to university or professional training.
Published interviews and memoirs by both men and women,
unpublished testimony and post-war compensation claims testify
to these and other shared experiences.
Employment prospects which were already poor before 1933 got
worse afterwards. Unable to find regular work, some were drafted
for forced labour as “foreign workers” during World War II.
Films and stage shows making propaganda for the return of
Germany’s African colonies became one of the few sources of
income, especially after black people were banned from other
kinds of public performance in 1939."
Source :
HTML https://theconversation.com/what-happened-to-black-germans-under-the-nazis-53599
The conclusion is, your statement that Hitler prohibited racial
mixing between "White European German" people and people of
another races because of preventing offsprings who potentially
had Eurocentrism behaviour because of heritage from their
parents on their Eurocentrist behaviour is just your artificial
interpretation of Nazi ideology in order to make Nazi ideology
is not racist, there is no such thing like Eurocentrism problem
are discussed in Nazi racial issue
--- Quote ---
> [quote]And the legacy of Stalin Soviet Russia is the struggle
of anti-colonial action by Russian people
--- End Quote ---
No. They supported the creation of Israel and East Timor after
all.[/quote]
Soviet Russia temporarily support Israel, and Western European
nations even did not recognize Palestine, that is the
difference, if you still ignoring this facts, you are confirmed
bias Anglophile
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Do you know that wearing 1960s counterculture clothes
make you like street gang and thieves people, and also ugly?
--- End Quote ---
Even if you don't like counterculture clothes, you could still
wear Nusantaran ones.
[/quote]
I consider Nusantaran clothes even more ugly rather than 1960s
counterculture clothes, and if Western suits are bad, then the
whole world not like it
[/quote]
"I consider Nusantaran clothes even more ugly rather than 1960s
counterculture clothes, and if Western suits are bad, then the
whole world not like it"
You are colonized. And your lack of will to be free of that
makes you sub-human.
#Post#: 8854--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: guest30
Date: September 16, 2021, 10:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
@Cthens, Hitlerist Negro
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"I consider Nusantaran clothes even more ugly rather
than 1960s counterculture clothes, and if Western suits are bad,
then the whole world not like it"
--- End Quote ---
You are colonized. And your lack of will to be free of that
makes you sub-human.[/quote]
You are brainwashed. And your blindness to follow Hitler's
racist ideology just make today Hitler's followers consider you
as sub-human, try to tell to Neo-Nazi and White Nationalist
people that you are Hitler's follower and have correct
interpretation about that ideology rather than their
interpretation on it, see how far you can get approval from
them, or, if you consider that right wing people like them are
biased on see history, try to discuss with professional
historians about your view on Hitler's ideology which you
consider as absolutely correct, see how far you can get approval
from them
If historians even reject your view, then the interpretation of
Hitler's ideology by you all "Aryanist" people are false, and
can be considered as action to spread misinformation to the
society
#Post#: 8857--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: Cthens
Date: September 17, 2021, 6:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
>
> @Cthens, Hitlerist Negro
>
> [quote][quote]"I consider Nusantaran clothes even more ugly
rather than 1960s counterculture clothes, and if Western suits
are bad, then the whole world not like it"
--- End Quote ---
You are colonized. And your lack of will to be free of that
makes you sub-human.[/quote]
You are brainwashed. And your blindness to follow Hitler's
racist ideology just make today Hitler's followers consider you
as sub-human, try to tell to Neo-Nazi and White Nationalist
people that you are Hitler's follower and have correct
interpretation about that ideology rather than their
interpretation on it, see how far you can get approval from
them, or, if you consider that right wing people like them are
biased on see history, try to discuss with professional
historians about your view on Hitler's ideology which you
consider as absolutely correct, see how far you can get approval
from them
If historians even reject your view, then the interpretation of
Hitler's ideology by you all "Aryanist" people are false, and
can be considered as action to spread misinformation to the
society
[/quote]
Reply to me when you have the self respect not to be a
eurocentrist. Even your ultimatum wants me too seek the approval
of "whites"
#Post#: 8858--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: Dazhbog
Date: September 17, 2021, 8:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Then, Suharto also commit total violence according to you,
because he gave industrialized way of life which you hate to
Western Nusantaran people also
--- End Quote ---
No. I already covered that:
--- Quote from: Dazhbog link ---
> No. The fact that he would deliberately limit his
industrialization efforts to a particular area is actually
strong evidence that he viewed it purely as a means to avoid
recolonization by the Dutch and the Portuguese and thus did not
seek to implement it on a scale larger than absolutely
necessary.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> No, he was Javanese (One of ethnic of Nusantara people)
supremacist
--- End Quote ---
No. I already covered that in regards to his treatment of the
Chinese:
--- Quote from: Dazhbog link ---
>
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Indonesians#Managing_the_%22Chinese_Problem%22_(1967%E2%80%931998)
>
> [quote][...] Suharto's "Pancasila democracy" sought a
depoliticized system in which discussions of forming a cohesive
ethnic Chinese identity were no longer allowed.
>
> ...
>
> A government committee was formed in 1967 to examine various
aspects of the "Chinese Problem" (Masalah Cina) and agreed that
forced emigration of whole communities was not a solution [...]
>
> ...
>
> The semi-governmental Institute for the Promotion of National
Unity (Lembaga Pembina Kesatuan Bangsa, LPKB) was formed to
advise the government on facilitating assimilation of Chinese
Indonesians.
>
> ...
>
> Expressions of Chinese culture through language, religion, and
traditional festivals were banned and the ethnic Chinese were
pressured to adopt Indonesian-sounding names.
--- End Quote ---
In other words, Suharto did not exclude them based on a
categorization they did not choose, but wanted to include them
by discontinuing traditions which distinguished them from
non-Chinese Nusantarans. This is not racism.[/quote]
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Communist ideology was very popular among Nusantara people
--- End Quote ---
I already covered that:
--- Quote from: Dazhbog link ---
> communist enslavement is less obvious than capitalist
enslavement, therefore communist enslavement can potentially
become more popular than capitalist enslavement, making it much
more difficult to eradicate than capitalist enslavement.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> If you consider that communism support colonialism, then you
are false
--- End Quote ---
My point is that communism isn't inherently anti-colonialist.
Communists will support anti-colonialism if they think this is
the easiest way to establish a communist society, just like they
will support colonialism if they think this is the easiest way
to establish a communist society, as the case of the Fretilin
demonstrates.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Hitler also forcing people into categories they didn't choose
through his racial law
--- End Quote ---
No. I already covered that:
--- Quote from: Dazhbog link ---
>
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Maurice#Conflict_with_Himmler_over_Jewish_heritage
>
> [quote]Even though Maurice had been a party member since 1919,
taken part in the abortive Beer Hall Putsch, for which he was
awarded the prestigious Blood Order, and been a bodyguard for
Hitler, Himmler considered him to be a serious security risk
given his "Jewish ancestry". Himmler recommended that Maurice be
expelled from the SS, along with other members of his family. To
Himmler's annoyance, Hitler stood by his old friend. In a secret
letter written on 31 August 1935, Hitler compelled Himmler to
make an exception for Maurice and his brothers, who were
informally declared "Honorary Aryans" and allowed to stay in the
SS.
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Very few people of African descent had German citizenship
--- End Quote ---
...which implies that some did. The article you quoted, however,
never specifies whether it concerns the experience of citizens
or non-citizens, therefore no conclusion can be drawn on whether
the individuals in question were treated that way because they
were "black" or because they were non-citizens.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Soviet Russia temporarily support Israel, and Western European
nations even did not recognize Palestine
--- End Quote ---
Recognizing both Israel and Palestine implies support for a
two-state solution, which means we will first have to convince
the countries in question to support a one-state solution and
then convince them to recognize only Palestine. Recognizing only
Israel already implies support for a one-state solution, which
means we only have to convince the countries in question to
recognize Palestine instead of Israel. Therefore, countries who
do not recognize Palestine in addition to Israel are less
trouble than countries who recognize Palestine in addition to
Israel.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> I consider Nusantaran clothes even more ugly rather than 1960s
counterculture clothes, and if Western suits are bad, then the
whole world not like it
--- End Quote ---
Spoken like a true Westerner.
#Post#: 8860--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: guest30
Date: September 17, 2021, 10:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@Dazhbog, Anglophile Leftist Hitlerist
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Then, Suharto also commit total violence according to
you, because he gave industrialized way of life which you hate
to Western Nusantaran people also
--- End Quote ---
No. I already covered that:
No. The fact that he would deliberately limit his
industrialization efforts to a particular area is actually
strong evidence that he viewed it purely as a means to avoid
recolonization by the Dutch and the Portuguese and thus did not
seek to implement it on a scale larger than absolutely
necessary.[/quote]
Many non-Western European nations never experience
recolonization by their colonizer after they gain independence
and built industrialization on their people, and recolonization
need strong military power particularly if they want to
recolonize Nusantara during Cold War era or after she
(Nusantara) gain independence and total military assistance from
our Slavic communist brothers, Nusantara even had more strong
military power more than Portuguese and Dutch (Netherlands), so
your speculation about potential recolonization is impossible
--- Quote ---
> [quote]No, he was Javanese (One of ethnic of Nusantara people)
supremacist
--- End Quote ---
No. I already covered that in regards to his treatment of the
Chinese:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Indonesians#Managing_the_%22Chinese_Problem%22_(1967%E2%80%931998)
--- Quote ---
> [...] Suharto's "Pancasila democracy" sought a depoliticized
system in which discussions of forming a cohesive ethnic Chinese
identity were no longer allowed.
>
> ...
>
> A government committee was formed in 1967 to examine various
aspects of the "Chinese Problem" (Masalah Cina) and agreed that
forced emigration of whole communities was not a solution [...]
>
> ...
>
> The semi-governmental Institute for the Promotion of National
Unity (Lembaga Pembina Kesatuan Bangsa, LPKB) was formed to
advise the government on facilitating assimilation of Chinese
Indonesians.
>
> ...
>
> Expressions of Chinese culture through language, religion, and
traditional festivals were banned and the ethnic Chinese were
pressured to adopt Indonesian-sounding names.
--- End Quote ---
In other words, Suharto did not exclude them based on a
categorization they did not choose, but wanted to include them
by discontinuing traditions which distinguished them from
non-Chinese Nusantarans. This is not racism.[/quote]
I agree with his policies which opposed Chinese identitarianism,
but his collaboration with Western European nations which
resulting economic oppression to my people are fatal bad
attitude, so Sukarno anti-Anglophile leadership was more good
rather than Suharto
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Communist ideology was very popular among Nusantara
people
--- End Quote ---
I already covered that:
communist enslavement is less obvious than capitalist
enslavement, therefore communist enslavement can potentially
become more popular than capitalist enslavement, making it much
more difficult to eradicate than capitalist enslavement.[/quote]
If you consider controlling people's property and disarm the
people for better way on controlling and lead people are
enslavement, you will consider communism "enslavement" ideology,
and I am not consider that ideology an "enslavement" ideology
--- Quote ---
> [quote]If you consider that communism support colonialism,
then you are false
--- End Quote ---
My point is that communism isn't inherently anti-colonialist.
Communists will support anti-colonialism if they think this is
the easiest way to establish a communist society, just like they
will support colonialism if they think this is the easiest way
to establish a communist society, as the case of the Fretilin
demonstrates.[/quote]
If communism consider colonialism are easy way to establish
Communist society, then Communist nation no need to defeat the
capitalist nation who are also colonialist, and even really
colonialist, and your statement that Fretilin people support
recolonization by Portuguese are false, East Timor government
which led by Fretilin people was not appeal recolonization by
Portuguese, they really wanted and gain independence on 1975,
see this information :
"Fretilin formally declared East Timor's independence from
Portugal on 28 November 1975 and inaugurated an 18 member
cabinet with members of the Fretilin Central Committee, with
Xavier do Amaral as president, and Nicolau dos Reis Lobato as
both vice president and prime minister.[5]"
Source :
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretilin#History_before_independence
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Hitler also forcing people into categories they didn't
choose through his racial law
--- End Quote ---
No. I already covered that:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Maurice#Conflict_with_Himmler_over_Jewish_heritage
--- Quote ---
> Even though Maurice had been a party member since 1919, taken
part in the abortive Beer Hall Putsch, for which he was awarded
the prestigious Blood Order, and been a bodyguard for Hitler,
Himmler considered him to be a serious security risk given his
"Jewish ancestry". Himmler recommended that Maurice be expelled
from the SS, along with other members of his family. To
Himmler's annoyance, Hitler stood by his old friend. In a secret
letter written on 31 August 1935, Hitler compelled Himmler to
make an exception for Maurice and his brothers, who were
informally declared "Honorary Aryans" and allowed to stay in the
SS.
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
During the war "colored" people in Nazi Germany was categorized
as "Third-Class Citizens" without their consent, this fact is
written by Veronika Kuzniar Clark on her "Black Nazis II" book,
and that categorization can be abandoned by them if they can
change their body into "White European" people's body type,
which cannot be done, that is the most worst force
categorization, and according to Ester Anumu Fordham, "black"
people cannot marry a "White European" people in Nazi Germany,
including her, who are from Togo, former German colony, so she
was not "black" people of French descent, it imply that Nazi
government was prohibited "colored" people from intermarry and
having offspring with any "White European" people, not just
people who considered by Nazi government as "Rhineland
Bastards", and from that we can conclude that Nazi Germany
commit discriminative and oppressive policy towards "Colored
Non-White European" people
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Very few people of African descent had German
citizenship
--- End Quote ---
...which implies that some did. The article you quoted however
never specifies whether it concerns the experiences of citizens
or non-citizens, therefore no conclusion can be drawn on whether
the individuals in question were treated that way because they
were "black" or because they were non-citizens.[/quote]
Yes, some German people of "African" descent are had German
citizenship, that is Third Class Citizenship which is unfair if
compared on how "White European" people from Western Europe can
gain normal First Class Citizenship in Germany during Nazi
government era, and even Eastern European people from Poland to
Soviet Russia who forced by Nazi troops to did force labor in
many Nazi occupied territory including inside Nazi Germany
itself are prohibited to intermarry with "White European" people
in Nazi Germany, even they can be considered as "White European"
if we see their skin color and body shape, of course they are
prohibited, because Hitler see Eastern European people are not
pure "White European" because in the past history, they ever
intermarry and reproduce with Asiatic Mongol people, which from
that their "White European" blood are polluted by people of
"colored" race, and Hitler only want Aryan people, or "White
European" people with pure racial blood
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Soviet Russia temporarily support Israel, and Western
European nations even did not recognize Palestine
--- End Quote ---
Recognizing both Israel and Palestine implies support for a
two-state solution, which means we will first have to convince
the countries in question to support a one-state solution and
then convince them to recognize only Palestine. Recognizing only
Israel already implies support for a one-state solution, which
means we only have to convince the countries in question to
recognize Palestine instead of Israel. Therefore, countries who
do not recognize Palestine in addition to Israel are less
trouble than countries who recognize Palestine in addition to
Israel.[/quote]
Therefore, countries which support one state solution who are
supporting Israel can be proven that they are hardly to be
changed on their world politics to support Palestine, because
from their "one-state solution" policy, they proven to be more
loyal to Israel, you can see again and again that the Western
European nations give more assistance to Israel and do many
mutual work with Israel, but you deny that because your
Anglophilia delusion
--- Quote ---
> [quote]I consider Nusantaran clothes even more ugly rather
than 1960s counterculture clothes, and if Western suits are bad,
then the whole world not like it
--- End Quote ---
Spoken like a true Westerner.[/quote]
I more respect quality of a material rather than the origin of
invention of a material
#Post#: 8871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: Dazhbog
Date: September 18, 2021, 5:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Nusantara even had more strong military power more than
Portuguese and Dutch (Netherlands)
--- End Quote ---
Yes, because Nusantara's economy was working well enough to buy
weapons, equip soldiers, pay soldiers and even sustain their own
military industrial complex to some extent.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> your speculation about potential recolonization is impossible
--- End Quote ---
No, see the separatist movements in East Timor and Papua.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> If you consider controlling people's property and disarm the
people for better way on controlling and lead people are
enslavement, you will consider communism "enslavement" ideology
--- End Quote ---
I already covered that:
--- Quote from: Dazhbog link ---
> The principle moral evil of communism is that it aims to
establish an utopian society so pleasurable that people will
feel no desire to transcend material existence altogether,
leading to a potentially infinite number of non-consensual
childbirths and thus, a potentially infinite number of victims
of initiated violence.
>
> Add to that communism's inherent class identitarianism, which
arbitrarily forces people into categories ("proletarian",
"bourgeois", "kulak" and so on) they didn't choose.
--- End Quote ---
You are illiterate!
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> If communism consider colonialism are easy way to establish
Communist society, then Communist nation no need to defeat the
capitalist nation who are also colonialist
--- End Quote ---
Of course they do, because they are still capitalist after all.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> East Timor government which led by Fretilin people was not
appeal recolonization by Portuguese, they really wanted and gain
independence on 1975
--- End Quote ---
The point is that the Fretilin wants to preserve a border
violently imposed on Timor by the Dutch and the Portuguese,
thereby perpetuating the violence initiated by them.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> During the war "colored" people in Nazi Germany was
categorized as "Third-Class Citizens" without their consent
--- End Quote ---
Please elaborate.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> according to Ester Anumu Fordham, "black" people cannot marry
a "White European" people in Nazi Germany, including her, who
are from Togo, former German colony
--- End Quote ---
That doesn't entitle her to act on her Eurocentrism either.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> even Eastern European people from Poland to Soviet Russia who
forced by Nazi troops to did force labor in many Nazi occupied
territory including inside Nazi Germany itself are prohibited to
intermarry with "White European" people in Nazi Germany, even
they can be considered as "White European" if we see their skin
color and body shape
--- End Quote ---
...which at least proves that Hitler didn't care about
"whiteness".
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Hitler see Eastern European people are not pure "White
European" because in the past history, they ever intermarry and
reproduce with Asiatic Mongol people, which from that their
"White European" blood are polluted by people of "colored" race,
and Hitler only want Aryan people, or "White European" people
with pure racial blood
--- End Quote ---
I already covered how at least the Russians have always been
treated as "white" (by the Germans in particular!):
--- Quote from: Dazhbog link ---
>
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/russia-the-last-colonial-empire/?message=8566
>
> [quote]The 1890s and 1900s marked the height of the "Yellow
Peril" propaganda by the German government, and the German
Emperor Wilhelm II (r. 1888–1918) often wrote letters to his
cousin Emperor Nicholas II of Russia, praising him as the
"saviour of the white race" and urging Russia forward in Asia.
>
> ...
>
> From November 1894 onward, Wilhelm had been writing letters
praising Nicholas as Europe's defender from the "Yellow Peril",
assuring the Tsar that God Himself had "chosen" Russia to defend
Europe from the alleged Asian threat.
>
> ...
>
> Wilhelm had written to Nicholas stating that the question of
Russian interests in Manchuria and Korea was beside the point,
saying instead it was a matter of Russia "undertaking the
protection and defence of the White Race, and with it, Christian
civilization, against the Yellow Race. And whatever the Japs are
determined to ensure the domination of the Yellow Race in East
Asia, to put themselves at its head and organise and lead it
into battle against the White Race. That is the kernel of the
situation, and therefore there can be very little doubt about
where the sympathies of all half-way intelligent Europeans
should lie.
>
> ...
>
> Will the 'Tsar' likewise betray the interests of the White
Race to the Yellow as to be 'left in peace' and not embarrass
the Hague tribunal too much?"
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/russia-the-last-colonial-empire/?message=8643
--- Quote ---
> Jinglei Wan, a historian based in Shanghai says the Russians
in the city had a unique position in the race-based hierarchy in
the city. “They enjoyed a status that was higher than the
Chinese [...].
>
> ...
>
> “The poorer of the lot even became beggars, burglars and
pick-pockets,” says Wan “When they were caught, they were tried
under Chinese law since they lost extraterritorial protections
when they refused Soviet citizenship.” He adds that the poorer
Russians were an “eyesore” for the Westerners who hated the
sight of destitute drunken Europeans being arrested by the
police.
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
You are illiterate!
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> support Palestine
--- End Quote ---
The point is to oppose Israel, not to support Palestine. Not
recognizing either Israel or Palestine is also superior to
recognizing both Israel and Palestine.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> I more respect quality of a material rather than the origin of
invention of a material
--- End Quote ---
The point is that you prefer Western designs over Nusantaran
designs, thereby exposing yourself as an aesthetic Westerner.
*****************************************************
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