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#Post#: 8656--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: guest30
Date: September 9, 2021, 12:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@Dazhbog, Pro-American and Anglo Apologist
--- Quote ---
> [quote]I already show to you, but seems you are ignoring me
and pretend not consider the information which I give to you
--- End Quote ---
Because your information isn't actually the information I'm
looking for. Let me rephrase my questions to give you a clearer
idea of what I want to know:
--- Quote ---
> I already show to you how his rule is oppressed my people
--- End Quote ---
Was anyone oppressed with the specific goal of allowing Dutch
(it has already been established that Suharto was
anti-Portuguese) colonial rule to reassert itself?[/quote]
Suharto did not allowed Dutch colonial rule, but he let United
States and Western European economic system and their capitalist
ideology to be forcibly implemented on my people which just make
more national debt and suffering because of poverty and big gap
between the rich and poor people, if you not consider that as
also oppression other than colonialism, then you need to learn
about the various kinds of oppression, and if you consider
implementation of capitalism is an oppression, then you will
agree with my facts which I provide, that Suharto was oppress my
people and not bring the problem of Dutch colonial rule anymore
to talk about Suharto regime
--- Quote ---
> [quote]and betrayed our founding father (Sukarno)'s
ideological goal
--- End Quote ---
Did Suharto diverge from Sukarno's line with the specific goal
of allowing Dutch colonial rule to reassert itself?[/quote]
Suharto allowing Capitalist rule on my nation, and it's totally
betray our socialist way of life which already created by
Sukarno, our founding father, again, he not allowing Dutch
colonial rule, but allowing other Western European nations to
oppress my people through their capitalist ideology which
forcibly implemented to my people
--- Quote ---
> [quote]he sell my nation to Western European nations
--- End Quote ---
Did Suharto's policies specifically aim at allowing Dutch
colonial rule to reassert itself?[/quote]
Again, I not bored to explain this and exposing your attitude of
ignoring of my facts because of your anti-socialist and
anti-Russian sentiment
Suharto did not allowing any form of colonial rule from foreign
nation, but he let the Western European nations to forcibly
implement their capitalist and oppressive economic system to my
nation, such thing is also an oppression, same like colonial
rule, or oppression by another nation
--- Quote ---
> [quote]and implemented racist policies towards Chinese people
and Papua East Indonesian people
--- End Quote ---
Were the categories "Chinese" and "Papuan" assigned to
individuals without them choosing to be categorized as
such?[/quote]
Yes, if you read the history article which I provide to you
about Suharto, not ignore it, his government authority imposed
that racial cathegory to people whom they consider as having
"Chinese" and "Papua" background, and the consequence is
constant racism from native Nusantara people to them which until
now still happen
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Papuans who come into direct contact with Freeport's
mines are often disadvantaged
--- End Quote ---
.
Were these disadvantages a consequence of the fact that the
individuals affected had been categorized as "Papuans" without
them choosing to be categorized as such?[/quote]
Suharto government implicitly make a indirect discriminative
policies towards Papua people, they constructed infrastructure
facility rapidly only centered to West Indonesia which
inhabitants is mostly "native Nusantaran" people, or can be
called as "Javanese" people, but do it slowly to Papuan people,
and also they not hesitated to oppress Papuan people like forced
them to relocate to another land or territory for the sake their
former land can be used by Western European nations's big
corporation to placed their industrial or factory building
--- Quote ---
> [quote]His task: to take on anti-Sukarno propaganda operations
run by the Foreign Office and M16.
--- End Quote ---
Did this result in Dutch colonial rule reasserting
itself?[/quote]
Again and again, during Suharto era, colonial rule was ended,
but he just make an oppression continued through another form,
that is forced Nusantara people to ally with the Western
European nations especially Britain and United States, which in
the past support and arm Dutch (Netherlands) soldiers to
recolonize Nusantara during 1948 until 1950, resulting Western
European nations's oppressive economic rule in Nusantara from
1967 until today, which Suharto made that oppression happen
deliberately, because he feel more gain benefit for himself and
his power to be a president with United States, Britain, and
their allies
--- Quote ---
> [quote]That is the flaw of Stalin's work during his
leadership, he see that Jewish people as fellow socialists and
he hope with the creation of Jewish land for them, they became
socialist too and work together with Soviet Russia
--- End Quote ---
In other words, Stalin was perfectly willing to support racism
and colonialism if it fit his agenda, just like Marx.[/quote]
In other words, Stalin did not knew much about how Jewish people
really behave, he wrongly think that Jewish people will be
fellow socialist and anti-colonialist, and thanks to Jewish
people in Russia during that time, they accidentally exposed
themselves on how are their actual behaviour to Russian people,
they wanted to dominate Russia with oppressive way as possible,
this statement can be confirmed with seeing historical
information on how Jewish people secretly made a poison weapon
to kill many high official people of Stalin Russia, and that
event famously called as "Doctor's Plot", and his anti-Jewish
policies began, and continued even after their death during
leadership of his successor like Nikita Kruschev and other
Soviet Russia leaders who condemn Israel as form of racism
And, don't forget that Hitler worked together with people from
Zionist organization to moved Jewish people from Germany to
Palestine without the will and also consent of native
Palestinian people during 1933, if Hitler really compassionate
with Arab people, better he kept the Jewish people on his land
and prevent them from oppressing Germany again, but of course
Hitler only care to his lovely "white" people from Western
Europe, and if you consider this is not Hitler's willingness to
made Jewish colonization of Palestine happen, then try to open
mind and learn that historical events again...
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"Despite ideological differences, Adolf Hitler admired
Stalin and his politics and believed that Stalin was in effect
transforming Soviet Bolshevism into a form of Nazism.[21]"
--- End Quote ---
Why did he attempt to destroy Stalinism then (as you yourself
have repeatedly pointed out)?[/quote]
Because Hitler hate Communism ideology which promoting
integration of people of "colored" races to territory which
inhabitated by people of "white" race and treat them as fellow
oppressed proletariat, he don't want Europe to be polluted by
people of "colored" races, even this integration policy is made
Soviet Russia morally more good than capitalist Western European
nations which attracted colonized nations to ally with them, and
forced the Western European nations to end their segregrationist
and racial rule and begin to learn to integrate people
of"colored" races which live on their territory to live fairly
with their "white" inhabitants during "counter-culture" era on
1960s, so the colonized nations of "colored" people can be got
attracted to work with Western European capitalist and racialist
nation, you can see this information from this source,
especially about the progress of opposition of racism in Soviet
Russia and Western Europe :
An African-American Worker in Stalin's Soviet Union: Race and
the Soviet Experiment in International Perspective†
HTML https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1540-6563.2008.00230.x
--- Quote ---
> [quote]he wanted to colonize Eastern European people
--- End Quote ---
In other words, his Lebensraum policy targeted other "white"
people, therefore it was no attempt to establish a "white"
ethnostate.[/quote]
He wanted to establish a pure "white" people from Western
Europe's ethnostate and treated the Slavic people as colonial
subject, that is also form of ethnostate, but to fellow "white"
people from another sub-races, and even many European scholars
during that time did not consider Eastern European people as not
"pure white", but "white" people with "half-Asiatic barbarian"
blood which it's view endorsed by Hitler's Nazi ideology
--- Quote ---
> [quote]His ambition to recolonize some parts of territory in
Africa continent
>
>
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/questions-regarding-aryanism/msg8462/#msg8462
--- End Quote ---
The territories in question had been taken over by Britain and
France after WWI, so whatever ambitions Hitler may have had in
this regard were above all aimed at removing British and French
colonial rule.[/quote]
So, Hitler wanted retake back the German former colonial
territory which lost and taken by British and French during
World War 1 and colonize "black" people, I talk based on what
Nazi propaganda inform to their SS soldiers, not making a new
apologist interpretation like you
--- Quote ---
> Fascism seeks to unite the citizenry, hence its name and
symbolism:
>
>
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces#Origin_and_symbolism
>
> [quote]By the time of the Roman Republic, the fasces had
developed into a thicker bundle of birch rods, sometimes
surrounding a single-headed axe and tied together with a red
leather ribbon into a cylinder.
>
> ...
>
> The symbolism of the fasces suggests strength through unity
(see Unity makes strength); a single rod is easily broken, while
the bundle is very difficult to break.
--- End Quote ---
Stalin in turn famously carved up the Soviet citizenry into a
myriad of arbitrarily drawn class and ethnic categories, which
disqualifies him from being a true fascist.[/quote]
Stalin made oppressive policies to people of particular ethnic
background mostly because of their betrayal action to the state,
like collaboration with Nazi occupiers and also Japanese troops
during World War 2, and also collaboration with capitalist
Chinese nation which led by Chiang Kai-shek, not because racial
reason, and about his policy on class categories, I don't have a
problem with that, seeing that many rich people always did many
bad things like corruption, pile up money only for their own
benefit, and hide their money from government to prevent them
for paying regular taxes, and that is also definition of
"Kulaks", that is why Stalin order his police to annihilated
them, they are parasite and harmful to the state, they not just
people from another class category, and I still consider
Stalin's leadership as fascist
--- Quote ---
> The principle moral evil of communism is that it aims to
establish an utopian society so pleasurable that people will
feel no desire to transcend material existence altogether,
leading to a potentially infinite number of non-consensual
childbirths and thus, a potentially infinite number of victims
of initiated violence.
>
> Add to that communism's inherent class identitarianism, which
arbitrarily forces people into categories ("proletarian",
"bourgeois", "kulak" and so on) they didn't choose.
--- End Quote ---
Transcend material existence, huh? People who have scientific
and rational thinking will laugh at you if you consider that
transcendence theory, or about afterlife theory is real, I don't
believe in transcendence or so-called "afterlife" no every
single of people prove that there is an another realm other than
this world which we are live in, so no need to believe that
funny and ridiculous doctrine of many spiritual religion, they
are spreading liar speculation propaganda and trash, and I
consider that aim to establish an utopian society is positive
struggle of people to get freedom and luxury
And... anyone can become proletariat by the way, just give up
your firearms and your business to the state, and you are
secure, can people of another racial background become racially
"white"? Of course not, and such racial rule on Hitler's regime
prevent "colored" people in Germany to gain fair type of
citizenship
--- Quote ---
> Russia's population didn't peak until 1992:
>
>
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#After_WWII
>
> At that point, Russia had a population density of 22.5
inhabitants/square mile (148,538,000 inhabitants/6,612,100
square miles).
>
> Estonia's Soviet era-population was at its historic low in
1941:
>
>
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Estonia
>
> At that point, Estonia had a population density of 58.3
inhabitants/square mile (1,017,475 inhabitants/17,462 square
miles).
>
> In other words, Estonia at its most sparsely populated still
had a much higher population density than Russia at its most
densely populated.
>
> Uzbekistan's Soviet era-population was at its historic low in
1950:
>
>
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Uzbekistan
>
> At that point, Uzbekistan had a population density of 36,6
inhabitants/square mile (6,314,000 inhabitants/172,700 square
miles).
>
> In other words, Uzbekistan at its most sparsely populated
still had a much higher population density than Russia at its
most densely populated.
>
> Draw your own conclusions.
--- End Quote ---
Because Soviet Russia government did not feel need to encourage
migration of people of "non European Russian" and many of them
did not feel need to migrate to other land on territory of
Soviet Russia, and even there is racism on Soviet Russia, the
government officials did not made it institutionalized or
offical rule, I already explain this repeatedly on many
conversation post, different to Hitler's regime which
delibratedly make discrimination and racism towards "colored"
people institutionalized
And the conclusion is you are American, Anglo, and capitalist
apologist and try to implementing "Eternal Anglo" theory,
support religious theory drunkenly and your support of Nazism
while you oppose racism is absurd, and also, if you want to meet
your fellow Nazi people, go and join to this site :
HTML https://www.stormfront.org/forum/
Many fellow "white" members
will greet you, and I also convinced that you are "white" too,
so no surprise if you blindly defending Hitler
#Post#: 8689--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: Dazhbog
Date: September 10, 2021, 3:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Suharto did not allowed Dutch colonial rule
>
> ...
>
> he not allowing Dutch colonial rule
>
> ...
>
> Suharto did not allowing any form of colonial rule from
foreign nation
>
> ...
>
> Again and again, during Suharto era, colonial rule was ended
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for admitting that Suharto was an anti-colonialist
leader after all! Consequently, supporting Suharto means
supporting the decolonization of Nusantara. Therefore, all
friends of Suharto are by default also friends of Nusantara.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Yes, if you read the history article which I provide to you
about Suharto, not ignore it, his government authority imposed
that racial cathegory to people whom they consider as having
"Chinese" and "Papua" background
--- End Quote ---
I read the articles with the help of google translate and did
not find anything to that effect. Could you please point me to
(and preferably also translate) the passages I'm supposed to
take that information from?
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> they constructed infrastructure facility rapidly only centered
to West Indonesia which inhabitants is mostly "native
Nusantaran" people, or can be called as "Javanese" people, but
do it slowly to Papuan people
--- End Quote ---
I already addressed that:
--- Quote from: Dazhbog link ---
> [quote author=kameradbaren link=topic=159.msg8569#msg8569
date=1630709416]In response to Indonesian claims, the
Netherlands sped up the process of implementing West Papuan
self-rule from 1959 onward. These measures included the
establishment of a legislative New Guinea Council in 1960,
establishing hospitals, completion of a shipyard in Manokwari,
development of agricultural research sites and plantations; and
the creation of the Papuan Volunteer Corps to defend the
territory.
--- End Quote ---
From your own post:
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> and the Papuanese people repressed and rarely to be given
development
--- End Quote ---
In other words, Suharto's policy on Papua was the exact opposite
of the Dutch policy on Papua, once more proving that he was a
true anti-colonialist.[/quote]
It was the Dutch who burdened the Papuans with infrastructure
and facilities they neither asked for nor needed in millennia as
a part of their colonial "civilizing mission". By not burdening
them with even more of this nonsense Suharto stopped the
colonization process the Dutch started.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> In other words, Stalin did not knew much about how Jewish
people really behave
--- End Quote ---
Russia housed (and continues to house) one of the largest Jewish
populations in the world. Some of Stalin's most important
associates, such as Lazar Kaganovich, were Jews. How could he
have been unaware of what Jews are like?
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> And, don't forget that Hitler worked together with people from
Zionist organization to moved Jewish people from Germany to
Palestine
--- End Quote ---
Please point me to the exact policy in question.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Because Hitler hate Communism ideology
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for admitting that Stalin was a communist. As a
communist he couldn't have been a fascist, much less a National
Socialist.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> He wanted to establish a pure "white" people from Western
Europe's ethnostate and treated the Slavic people as colonial
subject, that is also form of ethnostate
--- End Quote ---
Was the main goal of the Third Reich the perpetuation of a
particular ethno-identity? If not, it wasn't an ethnostate.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> and even many European scholars during that time did not
consider Eastern European people as not "pure white"
--- End Quote ---
No.
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/russia-the-last-colonial-empire/?message=8566
--- Quote ---
> The 1890s and 1900s marked the height of the "Yellow Peril"
propaganda by the German government, and the German Emperor
Wilhelm II (r. 1888–1918) often wrote letters to his cousin
Emperor Nicholas II of Russia, praising him as the "saviour of
the white race" and urging Russia forward in Asia.
>
> ...
>
> From November 1894 onward, Wilhelm had been writing letters
praising Nicholas as Europe's defender from the "Yellow Peril",
assuring the Tsar that God Himself had "chosen" Russia to defend
Europe from the alleged Asian threat.
>
> ...
>
> Wilhelm had written to Nicholas stating that the question of
Russian interests in Manchuria and Korea was beside the point,
saying instead it was a matter of Russia "undertaking the
protection and defence of the White Race, and with it, Christian
civilization, against the Yellow Race. And whatever the Japs are
determined to ensure the domination of the Yellow Race in East
Asia, to put themselves at its head and organise and lead it
into battle against the White Race. That is the kernel of the
situation, and therefore there can be very little doubt about
where the sympathies of all half-way intelligent Europeans
should lie.
>
> ...
>
> Will the 'Tsar' likewise betray the interests of the White
Race to the Yellow as to be 'left in peace' and not embarrass
the Hague tribunal too much?"
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/russia-the-last-colonial-empire/?message=8643
--- Quote ---
> Jinglei Wan, a historian based in Shanghai says the Russians
in the city had a unique position in the race-based hierarchy in
the city. “They enjoyed a status that was higher than the
Chinese [...].
>
> ...
>
> “The poorer of the lot even became beggars, burglars and
pick-pockets,” says Wan “When they were caught, they were tried
under Chinese law since they lost extraterritorial protections
when they refused Soviet citizenship.” He adds that the poorer
Russians were an “eyesore” for the Westerners who hated the
sight of destitute drunken Europeans being arrested by the
police.
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> So, Hitler wanted retake back the German former colonial
territory which lost and taken by British and French during
World War 1 and colonize "black" people, I talk based on what
Nazi propaganda inform to their SS soldiers, not making a new
apologist interpretation like you
--- End Quote ---
Please point me to the specific designs Hitler/the SS had in
mind for Togo, Cameroon, Tanzania and Namibia.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Stalin made oppressive policies to people of particular ethnic
background mostly because of their betrayal action to the state,
like collaboration with Nazi occupiers and also Japanese troops
during World War 2, and also collaboration with capitalist
Chinese nation which led by Chiang Kai-shek, not because racial
reason
--- End Quote ---
Were people from the affected ethnic groups who did not support
the Third Reich/Japan/KMT exempt from these measures?
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> and about his policy on class categories, I don't have a
problem with that, seeing that many rich people always did many
bad things like corruption, pile up money only for their own
benefit, and hide their money from government to prevent them
for paying regular taxes, and that is also definition of
"Kulaks"
--- End Quote ---
No.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulak#1930s
--- Quote ---
> At the same time, the ispolkoms (executive committees of local
Soviets) of republics, oblasts, and krais were granted the right
to add other criteria to the list so other people could be
classified as kulaks, depending on local conditions.
--- End Quote ---
In other words, "kulak" is a perfectly ambiguous category,
arbitrarily defined by the Soviet bureaucracy to include
whomever they want to include.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Transcend material existence, huh? People who have scientific
and rational thinking will laugh at you if you consider that
transcendence theory, or about afterlife theory is real, I don't
believe in transcendence or so-called "afterlife" no every
single of people prove that there is an another realm other than
this world which we are live in, so no need to believe that
funny and ridiculous doctrine of many spiritual religion, they
are spreading liar speculation propaganda and trash, and I
consider that aim to establish an utopian society is positive
struggle of people to get freedom and luxury
--- End Quote ---
Spoken like a true Marxist.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> And... anyone can become proletariat by the way, just give up
your firearms and your business to the state, and you are secure
--- End Quote ---
No, see my remarks on the "kulak" category.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Because Soviet Russia government did not feel need to
encourage migration of people of "non European Russian"
--- End Quote ---
...and they did not feel the need because they only cared about
expanding the territory controlled by "white" Russians.
#Post#: 8708--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: September 10, 2021, 10:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> And, don't forget that Hitler worked together with people from
Zionist organization to moved Jewish people from Germany to
Palestine
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://aryanism.net/blog/aryan-sanctuary/reminder-we-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-183355
#Post#: 8711--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: guest30
Date: September 10, 2021, 11:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
@Dazhbog, Pro-American and Anglo Apologist
--- Quote ---
> Thank you for admitting that Suharto was an anti-colonialist
leader after all! Consequently, supporting Suharto means
supporting the decolonization of Nusantara. Therefore, all
friends of Suharto are by default also friends of Nusantara.
--- End Quote ---
And Suharto ally with every nations which ideologically
capitalist which contrary to my nation's ideology that is
combination between communist, religion, and nationalist, and
he, again, let the Western European nations to imposed their
oppressive debt-based economic system to my nation which just
make poverty and more negative effects, and only benefit to
Western European people itself, Suharto not just ally with
capitalist nation, he betray our founding father Sukarno and
ideologically capitalist, this is not acceptable, even many of
my people hate Suharto
--- Quote ---
> I read the articles with the help of google translate and did
not find anything to that effect. Could you please point me to
(and preferably also translate) the passages I'm supposed to
take that information from?
--- End Quote ---
Read again this writings of historical article from site which I
provide to you, I am sure that you are playing with me on
debating, to make I am tired or exhausted phsycologically
through repeating the same argument or information from the same
sources on the same topic of discuss, good debating strategy, I
will learn how to defeat the debate's opponent from your evil
tactic, it's very useful
"Yosef Purnama Widyatmadja melalui buku Kebangsaan dan
Globalisasi dalam Diplomasi (2005) bahkan dengan jelas menyebut
tujuan Soeharto mengganti kata “Tiongkok dan Tionghoa” dengan
kata “Cina”. Menurut Yosef, Soeharto melakukannya untuk
menciptakan kebencian politik dan ras. Akibatnya, golongan
keturunan Tionghoa sangat rentan menjadi kambing hitam dan sapi
perah di tengah-tengah masyarakat (hlm. 33)."
English colonial language translation :
"Yosef Purnama Widyatmadja through the book Nationality and
Globalization in Diplomacy (2005) even clearly stated Suharto's
goal of replacing the words "Tiongkok and Tionghoa" with the
word "China". According to Yosef, Suharto did it to create
political and racial hatred. As a result, the Chinese are very
vulnerable to being scapegoats and cash cows in society (p.
33)."
Source : Intrik Politik Soeharto yang Melarang dan Membelokkan
Makna Imlek
HTML https://tirto.id/intrik-politik-soeharto-yang-melarang-dan-membelokkan-makna-imlek-cENG
And, I also add more historical information to you to explain
further about how Suharto's pro-Western European regime
oppressed and discriminated Papua people, see this information's
article below :
SATURDAY, March 3, 1973. History records that President Soeharto
inaugurated the copper mine owned by Freeport Sulfur, (a leading
mining company from the United States) as well as inaugurated
the establishment of the city of Tembagapura. When giving a
welcoming speech, Suharto was so happy
...
The Disaster of the Papuan People
The Erstberg Mountains don't just store copper. One of the
mountains named Grasberg also contains abundant gold reserves.
Grasberg is touted as the largest gold mine in the world.
Through a contract of work based on the Foreign Investment Law
(PMA) permitted by the Suharto government, Freeport has the
privilege of encroaching on it.
The presence of Freeport directly threatens the indigenous
people of the Amungme tribe who live in the highlands around the
mining project. The Amungme are very attached to their ancestral
lands. For them, Mount Grasberg is considered sacred. The
Grasberg peak is symbolized as the head of the mother. The
Amungme people have great respect for this sacred area.
According to Austrian anthropologist Christian Warta, Suharto's
ideology of "population displacement" was based on assumptions
about the superiority of newcomers. Suharto saw migrants bring
modernity to remote areas of Papua. On the other hand, the
Papuan people are seen as an underdeveloped society that must be
made cultured and civilized.
Source : Papua Di Tangan Soeharto - Historia
HTML https://historia.id/politik/articles/papua-di-tangan-soeharto-DpwQV/page/4
Recommended to read the whole article
--- Quote ---
> I already addressed that:
>
> [quote]In response to Indonesian claims, the Netherlands sped
up the process of implementing West Papuan self-rule from 1959
onward. These measures included the establishment of a
legislative New Guinea Council in 1960, establishing hospitals,
completion of a shipyard in Manokwari, development of
agricultural research sites and plantations; and the creation of
the Papuan Volunteer Corps to defend the territory.
--- End Quote ---
From your own post:
--- Quote ---
> and the Papuanese people repressed and rarely to be given
development
--- End Quote ---
In other words, Suharto's policy on Papua was the exact opposite
of the Dutch policy on Papua, once more proving that he was a
true anti-colonialist.
It was the Dutch who burdened the Papuans with infrastructure
and facilities they neither asked for nor needed in millennia as
a part of their colonial "civilizing mission". By not burdening
them with even more of this nonsense Suharto stopped the
colonization process the Dutch started.[/quote]
Even Netherlands (Dutch) facilities after Papua recaptured by
Sukarno regime's troops with big assistance from Soviet Russia
is already nationalized during early 1960s, so it belong to
Nusantara, and Papua people not rebelled to Suharto's regime if
you consider that Suharto stopped that development of facilities
in Papua is a good thing
--- Quote ---
> Russia housed (and continues to house) one of the largest
Jewish populations in the world. Some of Stalin's most important
associates, such as Lazar Kaganovich, were Jews. How could he
have been unaware of what Jews are like?
--- End Quote ---
If Stalin were comfortable with Jewish people, then there is no
event during his regime like "Doctor's Plot" for example, and,
on Stalin had important associates with Jewish descent, even BDS
(Boycott, Divestment, and Sanction) anti-Israel and anti-racism
movement which you all support had Jewish followers
--- Quote ---
> [quote]And, don't forget that Hitler worked together with
people from Zionist organization to moved Jewish people from
Germany to Palestine
--- End Quote ---
Please point me to the exact policy in question.[/quote]
Source : Haavara Agreement - Wikipedia
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
"The Haavara Agreement (Hebrew:
הֶסְכֵּם
הַעֲבָרָה‎
Translit.: heskem haavara Translated: "transfer agreement") was
an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed
on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three
months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the
Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency)
and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. It was a major
factor in making possible the migration of approximately 60,000
German Jews to Palestine in 1933–1939.[1]"
The agreement enabled Jews fleeing persecution under the new
Nazi regime to transfer some portion of their assets to British
Mandatory Palestine.[2] Emigrants sold their assets in Germany
to pay for essential goods (manufactured in Germany) to be
shipped to Mandatory Palestine.[3][4] The agreement was
controversial and was criticised by many Jewish leaders both
within the Zionist movement (such as the Revisionist Zionist
leader Ze'ev Jabotinsky) and outside it, as well as by members
of both the NSDAP (Nazi Party) and the German public.[4] For
German Jews, the agreement offered a way to leave an
increasingly hostile environment in Germany; for the Yishuv, the
Jewish community in Palestine, it offered access to both
immigrant labour and economic support; for the Germans it
facilitated the emigration of German Jews while breaking the
anti-Nazi boycott of 1933, which had mass support among European
Jews and was thought by the German state to be a potential
threat to the German economy.[4][5]"
If Hitler did really care to Palestinian people, he will keep
Jewish people in Germany and prevent them from taking Germany's
government to make an oppression
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Because Hitler hate Communism ideology
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for admitting that Stalin was a communist. As a
communist he couldn't have been a fascist, much less a National
Socialist.[/quote]
Hitler see Stalin was a bearer of communist ideology, and many
of communist people around Europe see Stalin was a fascist
socialist leader, even until now modern communist ideology's
follower condemn Stalin
--- Quote ---
> [quote]He wanted to establish a pure "white" people from
Western Europe's ethnostate and treated the Slavic people as
colonial subject, that is also form of ethnostate
--- End Quote ---
Was the main goal of the Third Reich the perpetuation of a
particular ethno-identity? If not, it wasn't an
ethnostate.[/quote]
If you still asking this question, then you not read my facts on
previous conversation post about Hitler's racialist ideology
which supporting "white" race to be preserved in the world, so
it's pointless if I keep giving facts to you, you pretend to not
know that and ignore it, read again my conversation post :
Link/URL :
Exposing Nazi racist ideology 1
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/aryanism's-hostility-towards-russia-and-eastern-european-people/msg8015/#msg8015
Exposing Nazi racist ideology 2
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/questions-regarding-aryanism/msg8462/#msg8462
David Myatt, former Nazi follower's thought on Nazi ideology
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/aryanism's-hostility-towards-russia-and-eastern-european-people/msg8036/#msg8036
Even David Myatt which you endorse because if his interpretation
and understanding of Nazi ideology which suit for you all is
distance himself from that ideology
--- Quote ---
> [quote]and about his policy on class categories, I don't have
a problem with that, seeing that many rich people always did
many bad things like corruption, pile up money only for their
own benefit, and hide their money from government to prevent
them for paying regular taxes, and that is also definition of
"Kulaks
--- End Quote ---
"
No.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulak#1930s
At the same time, the ispolkoms (executive committees of local
Soviets) of republics, oblasts, and krais were granted the right
to add other criteria to the list so other people could be
classified as kulaks, depending on local conditions.
In other words, "kulak" is a perfectly ambiguous category,
arbitrarily defined by the Soviet bureaucracy to include
whomever they want to include.[/quote]
I learn what the meaning of Kulaks from a friend which really
know Russian language and ever had families in Russia, not just
Wikipedia online knowledge, so I consider that my understanding
of the term "Kulaks" is more accurate than you, if you believe
"Kulaks" meaning from that mainstream Western European sources
of information, you will never agree with me
--- Quote ---
> [quote]and even many European scholars during that time did
not consider Eastern European people as not "pure white"
--- End Quote ---
No.
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/russia-the-last-colonial-empire/?message=8566
...
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/russia-the-last-colonial-empire/?message=8643[/quote]
If you cannot differentiate between Tsarist colonialist Russia
and Stalin's socialist imperialist Russia, then showing you
about the transformation of Russia from the bad to the good one
is useless
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Stalin made oppressive policies to people of particular
ethnic background mostly because of their betrayal action to the
state, like collaboration with Nazi occupiers and also Japanese
troops during World War 2, and also collaboration with
capitalist Chinese nation which led by Chiang Kai-shek, not
because racial reason
--- End Quote ---
Were people from the affected ethnic groups who did not support
the Third Reich/Japan/KMT exempt from these measures?[/quote]
Stalin did not not trust and such traitorous people and his
paranoia feeling made him to expel them as a whole, but
remember, not because of racial hatred, but because their bad
behaviour to the state, anyone can make good behaviour to the
state, but anyone cannot turning their biological possession
into new biological form which free them from racial hatred
which imposed by the state, like Nazi Germany and Pre-1960s
United States, and also Western European nations before
counterculture movements
--- Quote ---
> [quote]So, Hitler wanted retake back the German former
colonial territory which lost and taken by British and French
during World War 1 and colonize "black" people, I talk based on
what Nazi propaganda inform to their SS soldiers, not making a
new apologist interpretation like you
--- End Quote ---
Please point me to the specific designs Hitler/the SS had in
mind for Togo, Cameroon, Tanzania and Namibia.[/quote]
If this facts you don't consider it as form of Hitler and his SS
paramilitary's organization on expression to "black" people in
Africa, then it's useless to show you that Hitler wanted to
colonize Africa had he won, see this conversation post again :
Exposing Nazi racist ideology 2
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/questions-regarding-aryanism/msg8462/#msg8462
--- Quote ---
> [quote]And... anyone can become proletariat by the way, just
give up your firearms and your business to the state, and you
are secure
--- End Quote ---
No, see my remarks on the "kulak" category.[/quote]
Your remarks are useless
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Because Soviet Russia government did not feel need to
encourage migration of people of "non European Russian"
--- End Quote ---
...and they did not feel the need because they only cared about
expanding the territory controlled by "white" Russians.[/quote]
If you read article which I provide about An African-American
Worker in Stalin's Soviet Union: Race and the Soviet Experiment
in International Perspective†
HTML https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1540-6563.2008.00230.x<br
/>you will see that Stalin even made Russia friendly for
"colored"
foreigners, if you deny and not agree with my facts, then it's
useless to explain to you on how Stalin made Russia became
oppose racism, is Hitler encouraged immigration of "non-white"
people during his time when he need workers during World War 2?
Of course not, he more prefer "white" immigrants especially from
Eastern Europe even though they hated him rather than
"non-white" immigrants from Middle East for example who praise
and support him
#Post#: 8714--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: guest30
Date: September 11, 2021, 12:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@90sRetroFan
--- Quote ---
>
HTML http://aryanism.net/blog/aryan-sanctuary/reminder-we-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-183355
--- End Quote ---
From your post :
"The Haavara agreement never said anything about a Jewish state.
It was purely a trade agreement:
...
“Germany’s objective would then be solely the destruction of the
Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere under the protection
of British power“. (Das deutsche Ziel würde dann lediglich die
Vernichtung des im arabischen Raum unter der Protektion der
britischen Macht lebenden Judentums sein)."
Haavara agreement also said this :
"The agreement enabled Jews fleeing persecution under the new
Nazi regime to transfer some portion of their assets to British
Mandatory Palestine.[2] Emigrants sold their assets in Germany
to pay for essential goods (manufactured in Germany) to be
shipped to Mandatory Palestine.[3][4] "
Source : Haavara Agreement - Wikipedia
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
If Hitler cared on "colored" Arab people on their sufferings
under Jewish people's oppression, he prefer to keep Jewish
people in Germany and destroyed them on his own land, and from
your information, it said that Hitler wanted to destroy the
Jewish elements in Arab sphere under protection of British
power, it mean Hitler did not want British colonial Empire to be
ended, his policy reflected his view on admiring British
colonial Empire in his ideological book "Mein Kampf" and in his
private conversation which booked and become "Hitler's Table
Talk" book
#Post#: 8737--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: Dazhbog
Date: September 11, 2021, 6:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> even many of my people hate Suharto
--- End Quote ---
Many Germans also hate Hitler. I don't take them seriously
either.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Read again this writings of historical article from site which
I provide to you
--- End Quote ---
Nevermind, I did my own research:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Indonesians#Managing_the_%22Chinese_Problem%22_(1967%E2%80%931998)
--- Quote ---
> [...] Suharto's "Pancasila democracy" sought a depoliticized
system in which discussions of forming a cohesive ethnic Chinese
identity were no longer allowed.
>
> ...
>
> A government committee was formed in 1967 to examine various
aspects of the "Chinese Problem" (Masalah Cina) and agreed that
forced emigration of whole communities was not a solution [...]
>
> ...
>
> The semi-governmental Institute for the Promotion of National
Unity (Lembaga Pembina Kesatuan Bangsa, LPKB) was formed to
advise the government on facilitating assimilation of Chinese
Indonesians.
>
> ...
>
> Expressions of Chinese culture through language, religion, and
traditional festivals were banned and the ethnic Chinese were
pressured to adopt Indonesian-sounding names.
--- End Quote ---
In other words, Suharto did not exclude them based on a
categorization they did not choose, but wanted to include them
by discontinuing traditions which distinguished them from
non-Chinese Nusantarans. This is not racism.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> According to Austrian anthropologist Christian Warta,
Suharto's ideology of "population displacement" was based on
assumptions about the superiority of newcomers.
--- End Quote ---
Papua experienced a pro-colonialist backlash in the form of
anti-Nusantaran separatism, whereas the rest of Nusantara did
not (save for East Timor). Therefore, non-Papuan Nusantarans can
be assumed to be superior to the Papuans (save for the East
Timorese). Suharto was right!
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Suharto saw migrants bring modernity to remote areas of Papua.
On the other hand, the Papuan people are seen as an
underdeveloped society that must be made cultured and civilized.
--- End Quote ---
Given that Suharto did not care about the Dutch designs for
Papua, I assume he wanted to civilize Papua according to
Nusantaran standards, which is fair enough. The only thing I
care about is that he did not impose Western standards.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Papua people not rebelled to Suharto's regime if you consider
that Suharto stopped that development of facilities in Papua is
a good thing
--- End Quote ---
...which reinforces the point I made above: the Papuans rebelled
against Nusantara because they missed Dutch colonial rule, hence
why I deem them inferior to non-Papuan Nusantarans (save for the
East Timorese) and agree with Suharto's demographic policy in
Papua.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> even BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanction) anti-Israel and
anti-racism movement which you all support had Jewish followers
--- End Quote ---
They are not our associates, but infiltrators whom we seek to
remove.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Hitler see Stalin was a bearer of communist ideology, and many
of communist people around Europe see Stalin was a fascist
socialist leader, even until now modern communist ideology's
follower condemn Stalin
--- End Quote ---
As a National Socialist I agree with Hitler.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Hitler's racialist ideology which supporting "white" race to
be preserved in the world
--- End Quote ---
Why did he ally with anti-"white" Japan then?
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Stalin did not not trust and such traitorous people and his
paranoia feeling made him to expel them as a whole, but
remember, not because of racial hatred, but because their bad
behaviour to the state, anyone can make good behaviour to the
state
--- End Quote ---
"Making good behaviour to the state" evidently did not help
members of these ethnic groups who did not side with the Third
Reich/Japan/KMT if they were expelled nonetheless.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Exposing Nazi racist ideology 2
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/questions-regarding-aryanism/msg8462/#msg8462
--- End Quote ---
The relevant passages exclusively slam the British and the
French for occupying these territories. There is no statement
regarding their inhabitants.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> An African-American Worker in Stalin's Soviet Union: Race and
the Soviet Experiment in International Perspective†
HTML https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1540-6563.2008.00230.x<br
/>you will see that Stalin even made Russia friendly for
"colored"
foreigners
--- End Quote ---
We're not discussing the treatment of non-"white" foreigners in
the Soviet Union. We're discussing the colonization of
non-Russian Soviet republics by "white" Russians.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> it said that Hitler wanted to destroy the Jewish elements in
Arab sphere under protection of British power
--- End Quote ---
Hitler meant that the wanted to destroy the Jews in the
territory the British held at the particular point in time when
he made this statement, not that he wished to destroy the Jews
while Britain controlled that territory.
#Post#: 8741--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: guest30
Date: September 12, 2021, 12:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@Dazhbog, Pro-Capitalist, Anglophile, Support Corrupt President
Suharto
--- Quote ---
> Nevermind, I did my own research:
>
>
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Indonesians#Managing_the_%22Chinese_Problem%22_(1967%E2%80%931998)
>
> In other words, Suharto did not exclude them based on a
categorization they did not choose, but wanted to include them
by discontinuing traditions which distinguished them from
non-Chinese Nusantarans. This is not racism.
--- End Quote ---
My own research was based from the observation of scholars who
really live in Nusantara and who can directly see the condition
of Nusantara people, including how Chinese and Papuan people
were treated, and your research is just from knowledge media
which not from Nusantara, so your research is less accurate than
my research
--- Quote ---
> Papua experienced a pro-colonialist backlash in the form of
anti-Nusantaran separatism, whereas the rest of Nusantara did
not (save for East Timor). Therefore, non-Papuan Nusantarans can
be assumed to be superior to the Papuans (save for the East
Timorese). Suharto was right!
--- End Quote ---
Papuans are already loyal to Nusantara since it's first
leadership by socialist leader Sukarno, but became rebelled
because of discriminative treatment by our second government,
Suharto racialist leadership, and your thinking is same like how
my people around me today think about Papuan people, consider
them as "inferior", thanks for exposing your racist feeling
toward dark skinned people
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Suharto saw migrants bring modernity to remote areas of
Papua. On the other hand, the Papuan people are seen as an
underdeveloped society that must be made cultured and civilized.
--- End Quote ---
Given that Suharto did not care about the Dutch designs for
Papua, I assume he wanted to civilize Papua according to
Nusantaran standards, which is fair enough. The only thing I
care about is that he did not impose Western standards.[/quote]
He impose Western standards to Papuan people if you really care
about what the sources of historical information which I
provide, he let the United States big industries like Freeport
for example, to be placed in the land which formerly inhabitated
and owned by Papuan people without their consent, only for
profit to United States national revenue, but my people only got
little and even loss from that so-called Suharto's "development"
policy
--- Quote ---
> the Papuans rebelled against Nusantara because they missed
Dutch colonial rule
--- End Quote ---
The Papuans rebelled against Nusantara because they are severely
discriminated under Suharto's government, only for the sake
allowing Western European nation's economic domination to be
placed in Nusantara which is oppressive to all of my people, and
benefitting only to Suharto and his confidants
--- Quote ---
> ...and agree with Suharto's demographic policy in Papua.
--- End Quote ---
If you agree to change the population demography because the
people of a territory was supporting colonial rule, then on the
case of Soviet Russia ever send "white" Russian people to the
Far East and Southern Russia to replace the Chinese people in
Russia territory of the Far East and Southern Russian people who
are supporting Nazi and Japanese people who also ever attacked
Soviet Russia are justified, that is anti racist action, because
Nazi are racist
--- Quote ---
> As a National Socialist I agree with Hitler.
--- End Quote ---
Seeing you support National Socialist Racialist, you are racist
--- Quote ---
> Hitler's racialist ideology which supporting "white" race to
be preserved in the world
>
> Why did he ally with anti-"white" Japan then?
--- End Quote ---
Even his alliance with Japan is not serious, during 1937 he
assist Chinese capitalist to against fascist Japan, and on 1939
he ally with Japan and cut his military aid to Chinese people,
more explained on this source of information :
Originally, Germany had a very close relationship with the
Chinese nationalist government, even providing military aid and
assistance to the Republic of China. Relations soured after the
outbreak of the Second Sino-Japanese War on 7 July 1937, and
when China shortly thereafter concluded the Sino-Soviet
Non-Aggression Pact with the Soviet Union. Notwithstanding the
superior Sino-German economic relationship, Hitler concluded
that Japan would be a more reliable geostrategic partner and
chose to end his alliance with the Chinese as the price of
gaining an alignment with the more modern and militarily
powerful Japan.[37]
Source :
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93Japan_relations#Consolidation_of_cooperation
And also, Hitler was said anything racist towards Japanese and
Chinese people, showing that his alliance with Chinese and Japan
was for economic and military advantage only, not because he
likes both of nation of yellow people :
"Compare the civilisation of the Greeks with what Japan or China
was at the same period : it's like comparing the music of
Beethoven with the screeching of a cat."
Source : Adolf Hitler - Table Talk page 185 (PDF format's page)
paragraph 5
"It is not true, as some believe, that Japan adds European
technique to a culture of her own. The truth rather is that
European science and technics are just decked out with the
peculiar characteristics of Japanese civilization. The
foundations of actual life in Japan to-day are not those of the
native Japanese culture, although this characterizes the
external features of the country, which features strike the eye
of European observers on account of their fundamental
difference from us; but the real foundations of contemporary
Japanese life are the enormous scientific and technical
achievements of Europe and America, that is to say, of Aryan
peoples."
Source : Adolf Hitler - Mein Kampf page 236 (PDF format's page)
paragraph 3
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Stalin did not not trust and such traitorous people and
his paranoia feeling made him to expel them as a whole, but
remember, not because of racial hatred, but because their bad
behaviour to the state, anyone can make good behaviour to the
state
--- End Quote ---
"Making good behaviour to the state" evidently did not help
members of these ethnic groups who did not side with the Third
Reich/Japan/KMT if they were expelled nonetheless.[/quote]
And, Stalin did not really implement racist law in Soviet
Russia, like what Hitler did to Germany with his Nuremberg Laws
and Ahnenpass law, I consider Stalin more ideologically better
than the failed Austrian painter
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Exposing Nazi racist ideology 2
--- End Quote ---
The relevant passages exclusively slam the British and the
French for occupying these territories. There is no statement
regarding their inhabitants.[/quote]
If you want to know how Hitler see the "blacks", read Mein Kampf
and Hitler's Table Talk, and also his domestic policies, I
already explain that on previous conversation, but of course
Hitler sympathizer like you not want to accept the fact, and
also, Hitler's propaganda on Africa even directly use word
"colonial", so the meaning is clear, Nazi want African colonies
too like other Western European powers
--- Quote ---
> [quote] An African-American Worker in Stalin's Soviet Union:
Race and the Soviet Experiment in International Perspective†
HTML https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1540-6563.2008.00230.x<br
/>you will see that Stalin even made Russia friendly for
"colored"
foreigners
--- End Quote ---
We're not discussing the treatment of non-"white" foreigners in
the Soviet Union. We're discussing the colonization of
non-Russian Soviet republics by "white" Russians.[/quote]
I more believe the facts of information from @v3456 about how
Russian people from race background of "non-white Russians" are
treated by Soviet Russia government, seeing that I know him, he
ever lived in Russia and also have relatives too who also live
on that nation wwho tell many information about Soviet Russia to
him, so your statement about Soviet Russia was colonial are
absurd and without strong facts, see his conversation post again
:
Link/URL :
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/questions-regarding-aryanism/msg8341/#msg8341
--- Quote ---
> [quote]it said that Hitler wanted to destroy the Jewish
elements in Arab sphere under protection of British power
--- End Quote ---
Hitler meant that the wanted to destroy the Jews in the
territory the British held at the particular point in time when
he made this statement, not that he wished to destroy the Jews
while Britain controlled that territory.[/quote]
And, the conclusion is Hitler wanted to keep British colonial
territory held by them, this is reflecting his saying on British
colonialism :
"The fall of the British Empire would be a disaster for Germany"
- Adolf Hitler
Source : David Irving "Hitler's War" Prologue page 47
#Post#: 8744--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: Dazhbog
Date: September 12, 2021, 6:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Papuans are already loyal to Nusantara since it's first
leadership by socialist leader Sukarno, but became rebelled
because of discriminative treatment by our second government
--- End Quote ---
No:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_conflict#Origins
--- Quote ---
> On top of that, some Papuans did not participate in the
Indonesian Revolution, and that educated Papuans at the time
were split between those supporting Indonesian integration,
those supporting Dutch colonial rules, and those supporting
Papuan independence.
--- End Quote ---
In other words, an anti-Nusantaran element among the Papuans has
always existed.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> He impose Western standards to Papuan people
--- End Quote ---
No. Once more:
--- Quote from: Dazhbog link ---
> [quote author=kameradbaren link=topic=159.msg8569#msg8569
date=1630709416]In response to Indonesian claims, the
Netherlands sped up the process of implementing West Papuan
self-rule from 1959 onward. These measures included the
establishment of a legislative New Guinea Council in 1960,
establishing hospitals, completion of a shipyard in Manokwari,
development of agricultural research sites and plantations; and
the creation of the Papuan Volunteer Corps to defend the
territory.
--- End Quote ---
From your own post:
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> and the Papuanese people repressed and rarely to be given
development
--- End Quote ---
In other words, Suharto's policy on Papua was the exact opposite
of the Dutch policy on Papua, once more proving that he was a
true anti-colonialist.[/quote]
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> If you agree to change the population demography because the
people of a territory was supporting colonial rule, then on the
case of Soviet Russia ever send "white" Russian people to the
Far East and Southern Russia to replace the Chinese people in
Russia territory of the Far East and Southern Russian people who
are supporting Nazi and Japanese people who also ever attacked
Soviet Russia are justified, that is anti racist action, because
Nazi are racist
--- End Quote ---
No. The Soviet Union itself was colonialist, therefore I support
demographic change at the expense of the pro-Soviet population.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Relations soured after the outbreak of the Second
Sino-Japanese War on 7 July 1937, and when China shortly
thereafter concluded the Sino-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact with
the Soviet Union
--- End Quote ---
In other words, he hadn't ditched the Chinese if they hadn't
aligned themselves with the Third Reich's ideological enemy, the
Soviet Union.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Hitler concluded that Japan would be a more reliable
geostrategic partner
--- End Quote ---
I agree:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/russia-the-last-colonial-empire/?message=8643
--- Quote from: Dazhbog link ---
> Unfortunately, Eurocentrism was by then already firmly
entrenched in Chinese consciousness, hence why interwar China
never even lifted a finger to liquidate this colonial cesspit.
In fact, it was the Japanese who admirably cleared Shanghai of
Western colonialists:
>
>
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_International_Settlement#Japanese_occupy_the_International_Settlement_(1941)
>
> [quote]Anglo-American influence effectively ended after 8
December 1941, when the Imperial Japanese Army entered and
occupied the British and American controlled parts of the city
in the wake of the attack on Pearl Harbor. The British and
Americans troops taken by surprise surrendered without a shot,
with the exception of the only British riverboat in Shanghai,
HMS Peterel, which refused to surrender: six of the 18 British
crew who were on board at the time were killed when the ship was
sunk when the Japanese opened fire at almost point-blank range.
>
> ...
>
> European residents of the International Settlement were forced
to wear armbands to differentiate them, were evicted from their
homes, and [...] were liable to maltreatment. All were liable
for punitive punishments, torture and even death during the
period of Japanese occupation. The Japanese sent European and
American citizens to be interned at the Lunghua Civilian
Assembly Center, a work camp on what was then the outskirts of
Shanghai. Survivors of Lunghua were released in August 1945.
>
> Shanghai was notable for a long period as the only place in
the world that unconditionally offered refuge for Jews escaping
from the Nazis. These refugees often lived in squalid conditions
in an area known as the Shanghai Ghetto in Hongkew. On 21 August
1941 the Japanese government closed Hongkew to Jewish
immigration.
--- End Quote ---
...and ultimately restored Chinese sovereignty:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_International_Settlement#Return_to_Chinese_rule
--- Quote ---
> [...] in July 1943, the Japanese retroceded the SMC to the
City Government of Shanghai, which was then in the hands of the
pro-Japanese Wang Jingwei Government.
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
In other words, Hitler aligned himself with the country he
accurately assessed as being more capable of resisting
colonialism at the time.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> "Compare the civilisation of the Greeks with what Japan or
China was at the same period : it's like comparing the music of
Beethoven with the screeching of a cat."
--- End Quote ---
What Hitler meant is that Greek civilization, like Western
classical music, is needlessly complex, whereas Japanese and
Chinese civilization is much simpler and by inference, more
noble. By our standards, he is complimenting the Japanese and
the Chinese!
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> "It is not true, as some believe, that Japan adds European
technique to a culture of her own. The truth rather is that
European science and technics are just decked out with the
peculiar characteristics of Japanese civilization. The
foundations of actual life in Japan to-day are not those of the
native Japanese culture, although this characterizes the
external features of the country, which features strike the eye
of European observers on account of their fundamental
difference from us; [...]."
--- End Quote ---
Hitler is bemoaning the Japanese Eurocentrism of his time, just
as 90sRF did in a different thread:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/russia-the-last-colonial-empire/?message=8653
--- Quote from: 90sRetroFan link ---
> To be fair, Japan succumbed even earlier:
>
>
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_architecture#Meiji,_Taish%C5%8D,_and_early_Sh%C5%8Dwa_periods
--- End Quote ---
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> And, Stalin did not really implement racist law in Soviet
Russia
--- End Quote ---
He implemented racist actions anyway, whether they were deemed
legal by Soviet legislation or not.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> If you want to know how Hitler see the "blacks", read Mein
Kampf and Hitler's Table Talk
--- End Quote ---
We're not talking about "blacks" as a category, we're
specifically talking about the populations of Togo, Cameroon,
Tanzania and Namibia.
#Post#: 8746--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: guest30
Date: September 12, 2021, 8:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@[size=12pt]Dazhbog[/size]
--- Quote ---
> [quote]He impose Western standards to Papuan people
--- End Quote ---
No. Once more:
--- Quote ---
> In response to Indonesian claims, the Netherlands sped up the
process of implementing West Papuan self-rule from 1959 onward.
These measures included the establishment of a legislative New
Guinea Council in 1960, establishing hospitals, completion of a
shipyard in Manokwari, development of agricultural research
sites and plantations; and the creation of the Papuan Volunteer
Corps to defend the territory.
--- End Quote ---
From your own post:
--- Quote ---
> and the Papuanese people repressed and rarely to be given
development
--- End Quote ---
In other words, Suharto's policy on Papua was the exact opposite
of the Dutch policy on Papua, once more proving that he was a
true anti-colonialist.[/quote]
Sukarno already made Dutch (Netherlands) facilities on Papua
belong to national possession during early 1958 before Suharto
gain power in 1967 and made the discriminative policy to Papuan
people, so Papuan people got facilities from Dutch which already
belong to Nusantara, that imply Papuan people automatically
followed Nusantara's policy, not Dutch, and also, it's the
Communist, not Nazi people who give big support to integration
of Papua, see this information :
"By January 1958, ten thousand Dutch nationals had left
Indonesia, many returning to the Netherlands. This spontaneous
nationalisation had adverse repercussions on the Indonesian
economy, disrupting communications and affecting the production
of exports."
Source :
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_New_Guinea_dispute#Escalating_tensions
"By 1953, the dispute had become the central issue in Indonesian
domestic politics. All political parties across the Indonesian
political spectrum, particularly the Indonesian Communist Party
(PKI), supported Sukarno's efforts to integrate West Irian into
Indonesia. According to the historians Audrey and George
McTurnan Kahin, the PKI's pro-integration stance helped the
party to rebuild its political base and to further its
credentials as a nationalist Communist Party that supported
Sukarno.[19]"
Source :
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_New_Guinea_dispute#Indonesian_irredentism
And, it's Suharto who imposed Western standards more deeply to
Nusantara people, imposing capitalism way of life and debt-based
economic system through turning national bank system into
central bank system which it's a Western European's oppressive
economic system, from that system every money that printed by
Nusantara government became debt to the founder of the economic
system which control our national bank through Western European
government's assistance, my people only got increasing taxes
which never decreasing until now, and their money which they got
was useless, it cannot to pay their basic needs sufficiently,
because most of it's money used from paying useless taxes, see
this information :
"For the next 15 years, Bank Indonesia carried on commercial
activities as well as acting as the nation's national bank and
is in charge in issuing Indonesian rupiah currency. This came to
an end with the Act No. 13 of 1968 on the Central Bank,
transforming Bank Indonesia as a central bank."
Source :
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Indonesia#History
Do you want to know what is central bank system which imposed by
Western European power to our people, see this documentary :
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--nzxvUmE-Y
Suharto was betrayed our people
--- Quote ---
> If you agree to change the population demography because the
people of a territory was supporting colonial rule, then on the
case of Soviet Russia ever send "white" Russian people to the
Far East and Southern Russia to replace the Chinese people in
Russia territory of the Far East and Southern Russian people who
are supporting Nazi and Japanese people who also ever attacked
Soviet Russia are justified, that is anti racist action, because
Nazi are racist
>
> [quote]No. The Soviet Union itself was colonialist, therefore
I support demographic change at the expense of the pro-Soviet
population.
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
If you still consider Soviet Russia were colonialist even tough
I already give you facts of information on how Soviet Russia was
anti-colonial nation, then you will say to me with such same
argument even from beginning I open this debate about Soviet
Russia and communism ideology, see this information again, if
you still not agree with that, then I not surprise if you keep
accusing Soviet Russia is colonial nation without strong
argument, even we can consider that you just make an fantasy
opinion :
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/questions-regarding-aryanism/msg8341/#msg8341
--- Quote ---
> Relations soured after the outbreak of the Second
Sino-Japanese War on 7 July 1937, and when China shortly
thereafter concluded the Sino-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact with
the Soviet Union
>
> In other words, he hadn't ditched the Chinese if they hadn't
aligned themselves with the Third Reich's ideological enemy, the
Soviet Union.
--- End Quote ---
In other words, Hitler more hate a nation who aligned themselves
to socialist ideology rather than a nation who are aligned to
capitalist and racialist ideology, that imply Hitler was not
socialist
--- Quote ---
> [quote]Hitler concluded that Japan would be a more reliable
geostrategic partner
--- End Quote ---
I agree:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/russia-the-last-colonial-empire/?message=8643[/quote]
If you still agree with the information about Russia which
already debunked by me and people named @v3456, I am not
surprise that you still consider Russia as a "colonial" nation
--- Quote ---
> Unfortunately, Eurocentrism was by then already firmly
entrenched in Chinese consciousness, hence why interwar China
never even lifted a finger to liquidate this colonial cesspit.
In fact, it was the Japanese who admirably cleared Shanghai of
Western colonialists:
>
>
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_International_Settlement#Japanese_occupy_the_International_Settlement_(1941)
>
> Anglo-American influence effectively ended after 8 December
1941, when the Imperial Japanese Army entered and occupied the
British and American controlled parts of the city in the wake of
the attack on Pearl Harbor. The British and Americans troops
taken by surprise surrendered without a shot, with the exception
of the only British riverboat in Shanghai, HMS Peterel, which
refused to surrender: six of the 18 British crew who were on
board at the time were killed when the ship was sunk when the
Japanese opened fire at almost point-blank range.
>
> ...
>
> European residents of the International Settlement were forced
to wear armbands to differentiate them, were evicted from their
homes, and [...] were liable to maltreatment. All were liable
for punitive punishments, torture and even death during the
period of Japanese occupation. The Japanese sent European and
American citizens to be interned at the Lunghua Civilian
Assembly Center, a work camp on what was then the outskirts of
Shanghai. Survivors of Lunghua were released in August 1945.
>
> Shanghai was notable for a long period as the only place in
the world that unconditionally offered refuge for Jews escaping
from the Nazis. These refugees often lived in squalid conditions
in an area known as the Shanghai Ghetto in Hongkew. On 21 August
1941 the Japanese government closed Hongkew to Jewish
immigration.
>
> ...and ultimately restored Chinese sovereignty:
>
>
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_International_Settlement#Return_to_Chinese_rule
>
> [...] in July 1943, the Japanese retroceded the SMC to the
City Government of Shanghai, which was then in the hands of the
pro-Japanese Wang Jingwei Government.
>
> In other words, Hitler aligned himself with the country he
accurately assessed as being more capable of resisting
colonialism at the time.
--- End Quote ---
In other words, Hitler just need allies to help him to against
socialist movement that happened in Russia and on the way to
spread to Europe, and to the rest of the world later, that is
what Hitler hope to Japan, not he hoped Japan ending colonialism
in Asia, but just hoped Japan to participate with Hitler to
against the socialist movement, and I am proud that Japan not
agree with Hitler's appeal that helping the defeat of racist and
pro-British (United Kingdom) colonial movement of 20th century
--- Quote ---
> [quote]"Compare the civilisation of the Greeks with what Japan
or China was at the same period : it's like comparing the music
of Beethoven with the screeching of a cat."
--- End Quote ---
What Hitler meant is that Greek civilization, like Western
classical music, is needlessly complex, whereas Japanese and
Chinese civilization is much simpler and by inference, more
noble. By our standards, he is complimenting the Japanese and
the Chinese![/quote]
What Hitler meant is, Western civilization which more advanced
which spread by Western European nations are more good on
quality rather than Japanese and Chinese civilization which he
considered as inferior
--- Quote ---
> [quote]It is not true, as some believe, that Japan adds
European technique to a culture of her own. The truth rather is
that European science and technics are just decked out with the
peculiar characteristics of Japanese civilization. The
foundations of actual life in Japan to-day are not those of the
native Japanese culture, although this characterizes the
external features of the country, which features strike the eye
of European observers on account of their fundamental
difference from us; [...]."
--- End Quote ---
Hitler is bemoaning the Japanese Eurocentrism of his time, just
as 90sRF did in a different thread:[/quote]
Hitler was admitting the Western European's superiority of their
culture over Japanese culture
--- Quote ---
> [quote]And, Stalin did not really implement racist law in
Soviet Russia
--- End Quote ---
He implemented racist actions anyway, whether they were deemed
legal by Soviet legislation or not.[/quote]
Purging a group of people because they did something bad, not
because their background of their race is not racist even tough
the people who are categorized on the group type which got
purged is not also did bad things, I consider it as preventive
action, different on Hitler's regime action like event of
Rhineland Bastard, Lebensraum, and made Nuremberg racial laws
which did because racial reason, if you consider that is not
racist, your ignorance on history about Nazi regime is critical
--- Quote ---
> If you want to know how Hitler see the "blacks", read Mein
Kampf and Hitler's Table Talk
>
> We're not talking about "blacks" as a category, we're
specifically talking about the populations of Togo, Cameroon,
Tanzania and Namibia.
--- End Quote ---
And the populations of Togo, Cameroon, Tanzania, and Namibia are
majority people of "black" category, so Hitler really wanted to
gain colonial territory which formerly lost to British (United
Kingdom) and France during World War 1, and exploited the
"black" people whom he considered as inferior subhuman apes
What make you so defending Hitler and his ideology even tough it
was racist? You are Stormfront spy who try to attract the
goodhearted moral people?
#Post#: 8761--------------------------------------------------
Re: Questions Regarding Aryanism
DIR By: Dazhbog
Date: September 13, 2021, 12:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Sukarno already made Dutch (Netherlands) facilities on Papua
belong to national possession
--- End Quote ---
This is not what I meant. What I meant is that the Dutch saw a
need for large-scale industrialization in Papua in the first
place, whereas Suharto did not.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> so Papuan people got facilities from Dutch which already
belong to Nusantara, that imply Papuan people automatically
followed Nusantara's policy, not Dutch
--- End Quote ---
As per the above, if the loyalty of the Papuans was dependent on
whether the industrialization of Papua would be continued, they
did in fact adopt the pro-industrialization attitude of the
Dutch.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> And, it's Suharto who imposed Western standards more deeply to
Nusantara people, imposing capitalism way of life and debt-based
economic system through turning national bank system into
central bank system which it's a Western European's oppressive
economic system
--- End Quote ---
Communism is also a Western oppressive economic system. Even if
we would indeed have to consider Suharto westernized as far as
his economic policy is concerned, his enemies were no better.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> if you still not agree with that
--- End Quote ---
I do not.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> In other words, Hitler more hate a nation who aligned
themselves to socialist ideology rather than a nation who are
aligned to capitalist and racialist ideology, that imply Hitler
was not socialist
>
> ...
>
> In other words, Hitler just need allies to help him to against
socialist movement that happened in Russia and on the way to
spread to Europe, and to the rest of the world later, that is
what Hitler hope to Japan, not he hoped Japan ending colonialism
in Asia, but just hoped Japan to participate with Hitler to
against the socialist movement
--- End Quote ---
If that were the case, he would have ditched Japan upon the
conclusion of the Soviet-Japanese Neutrality Pact.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> What Hitler meant is, Western civilization which more advanced
which spread by Western European nations are more good on
quality rather than Japanese and Chinese civilization which he
considered as inferior
>
> ...
>
> Hitler was admitting the Western European's superiority of
their culture over Japanese culture
--- End Quote ---
That is your interpretation, as your own innate Eurocentrism
automatically leads you to assume that any comparison between
Western and non-Western civilization favors the former, even if
there is no further context to suggest so. I in turn genuinely
despise Western civilization, therefore I automatically assume
that any comparison between Western and non-Western civilization
without any further context favors the latter.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> Purging a group of people because they did something bad, not
because their background of their race is not racist even tough
the people who are categorized on the group type which got
purged is not also did bad things, I consider it as preventive
action
--- End Quote ---
Rightists also tell me that categorically banning all
non-"white" individuals from certain businesses, neighborhoods,
countries etc. is a preventive measure due to their supposedly
higher crime rates. I don't take them seriously either.
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> And the populations of Togo, Cameroon, Tanzania, and Namibia
are majority people of "black" category
--- End Quote ---
As we discussed above, Hitler differentiated between China and
Japan, which both belong in the "Asian" (or related) category as
per the colonial classification system.
As was discussed a few pages prior, Hitler differentiated
between different "black" populations within Germany.
Why wouldn't he differentiate between the "black" populations of
the aforementioned countries and other "black" populations?
--- Quote from: kameradbaren link ---
> whom he considered as inferior subhuman apes
--- End Quote ---
No authentic National Socialist would ever deem an ape their
inferior.
*****************************************************
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