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#Post#: 27849--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
By: antihellenistic Date: September 13, 2024, 8:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hitler emphasizes people's unity rather than discrimination
practice towards the innocents
[quote]In May 1944, to officers in a remarkable speech at the
Platterhof, Hitler said: "We have this people of ours that is
not to be identified with a race, and this is now clear to
millions. ... But when I began (speaking) about twenty-five
years ago this was not so. I was told by
[counterrevolutionary-bürgerlich) circles: Yes, Volk and Race
are one and the same! No! Volk and race are not the same. Race
is a component of blood, a hematologic [blutmässig) kernel, but
the Volk is very often composed not of one race but of two,
three, four or five different racial kernels. ... Each of these
racial kernels possesses particular talents."* [/quote]
Source :
1. The Hitler of history by John Lukacs page 123
HTML https://archive.org/details/hitlerofhistory00luka/page/122/mode/2up?q=platterhof
2. Kuzniar-Clark - Black Nazis II Ethnic Minorities and
Foreigners in Hitler's Armed Forces page 226 and 229
3. Institut für Zeitgeschichte, MA 316, Ansprache des Fuhrers
vor Generalen und Offizieren am 26.5.1944 im Platterhof, 26-28,
50.
#Post#: 27851--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
By: antihellenistic Date: September 14, 2024, 2:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In 1936, Immigrants from former German colonies in "Africa" got
assistance from Martin Bormann, Chief Staff of the Deputy Fuhrer
to live and got a job in Hitler's Regime.
It was the majority of "white Germans", not Hitler regime's
officials who did persecution to the "blacks". The government
officials try what they can do to protect the immigrants
Translated from German into English with Google Translate
[quote]The withdrawal of identity cards and the issuing of
foreign passports certainly had a counterproductive effect, as
these measures represented the first significant steps towards a
separation from the "national body." From this conflict, the
public authorities constructed the "good" African, who came from
the former colonies and had preferably fought on the German side
in the First World War. This person was to be worthy of support;
above all, they wanted to help him find work and thus make him
independent of benefits. Africans of other origins were to be
clearly separated from these. "However, the difficulty arises
that in individual cases it is not always immediately possible
to determine whether or not a colonial Negro has made a valuable
contribution to Germany," said Martin Bormann, later head of the
NSDAP party office, describing the "dilemma" in a letter to the
Foreign Office on October 31, 1935.1º Nevertheless, it was
necessary to give the Africans or black Germans a chance to earn
a living, "since some of the Negroes are still in contact with
their homeland and will report back to them on the situation in
Germany and their treatment" - this was Bormann's regretful
statement in a confidential circular to the Gauleiter on March
30, 1936. Since this support was not really compatible with the
definitions and regulations of the "Nuremberg Laws," it was
wanted to prevent it from becoming public. Bormann added in the
circular: "General dissemination to the lower party offices is
to be avoided, [...] because I want to avoid support for these
Negroes being misunderstood." The attempt was therefore made to
avoid coming into open conflict with the racial policy
principles and regulations of the regime. In a first step, all
Africans and black Germans who were eligible for support were to
be recorded. They were then to be given a certificate assuring a
potential employer that there were no objections to hiring them.
In addition, they were to be placed under the special protection
of the relevant party organizations.
In practical implementation, it proved extremely difficult from
the outset to make it clear to the population and thus also to
employers that a distinction had to be made between "good" and
"bad" Africans. Whole companies became members of the German
Labor Front, which was mostly closed to people with black
skin.12 Here, too, however, there was no uniform approach. In a
"Note on the situation of blacks from the protectorates in
Germany" written by the Foreign Office in November 1934, it was
stated: "The development of the racial problem in Germany has
had very serious consequences for the Negroes living here. The
difficulties that the Negroes encounter in the practical
implementation of the racial question are less due to official
measures than to the general mood of the population. [...] The
general mood of the population on the racial question means that
the Negroes are often subjected to personal insults and
rejection, but above all in the fact that no employer dares to
employ Negroes out of consideration for the mood of the
public."13[/quote]
Source :
1. Treu bis in den Tod. Von Deutsch-Ostafrika nach
Sachsenhausen. Eine Lebensgeschichte 1 Aug. 2007 by Marianne
Bechhaus-Gerst Page 75 - 77
HTML https://books.google.co.id/books?redir_esc=y&hl=id&id=r9dVq2EsN7cC&q=Arbeitsschutz#v=onepage&q=martin%20bormann&f=false
2. Kuzniar-Clark - Black Nazis II Ethnic Minorities and
Foreigners in Hitler's Armed Forces page 46
It's the opposition towards democratic and popular decisions,
that can give protection to minority people with different
racial/social/conditional backgrounds.
#Post#: 27856--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
By: Thankyou! Date: September 14, 2024, 6:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate much of your effort @antihellenistic, as do I the
work of JJ, AS, and RP. Always and forever. Sincerely yours, the
wrong choice they always make and that which they for no good
reason can never leave alone!
If only my stalkers were smart enough to realize whom they
should truly be stalking, but alas, I wouldn't wish that upon
any of you! If I can contribute as a weirdo magnet that stops
the weirdos from attracting to all of you, then perhaps in Gods
eye I have served some important purpose here?
#Post#: 27857--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
By: antihellenistic Date: September 14, 2024, 8:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=antihellenistic link=topic=1384.msg27851#msg27851
date=1726298191]
In 1936, Immigrants from former German colonies in "Africa" got
assistance from Martin Bormann, Chief Staff of the Deputy Fuhrer
to live and got a job in Hitler's Regime.
It was the majority of "white Germans", not Hitler regime's
officials who did persecution to the "blacks". The government
officials try what they can do to protect the immigrants
Translated from German into English with Google Translate
[quote]The withdrawal of identity cards and the issuing of
foreign passports certainly had a counterproductive effect, as
these measures represented the first significant steps towards a
separation from the "national body." From this conflict, the
public authorities constructed the "good" African, who came from
the former colonies and had preferably fought on the German side
in the First World War. This person was to be worthy of support;
above all, they wanted to help him find work and thus make him
independent of benefits. Africans of other origins were to be
clearly separated from these. "However, the difficulty arises
that in individual cases it is not always immediately possible
to determine whether or not a colonial Negro has made a valuable
contribution to Germany," said Martin Bormann, later head of the
NSDAP party office, describing the "dilemma" in a letter to the
Foreign Office on October 31, 1935.1º Nevertheless, it was
necessary to give the Africans or black Germans a chance to earn
a living, "since some of the Negroes are still in contact with
their homeland and will report back to them on the situation in
Germany and their treatment" - this was Bormann's regretful
statement in a confidential circular to the Gauleiter on March
30, 1936. Since this support was not really compatible with the
definitions and regulations of the "Nuremberg Laws," it was
wanted to prevent it from becoming public. Bormann added in the
circular: "General dissemination to the lower party offices is
to be avoided, [...] because I want to avoid support for these
Negroes being misunderstood." The attempt was therefore made to
avoid coming into open conflict with the racial policy
principles and regulations of the regime. In a first step, all
Africans and black Germans who were eligible for support were to
be recorded. They were then to be given a certificate assuring a
potential employer that there were no objections to hiring them.
In addition, they were to be placed under the special protection
of the relevant party organizations.
In practical implementation, it proved extremely difficult from
the outset to make it clear to the population and thus also to
employers that a distinction had to be made between "good" and
"bad" Africans. Whole companies became members of the German
Labor Front, which was mostly closed to people with black
skin.12 Here, too, however, there was no uniform approach. In a
"Note on the situation of blacks from the protectorates in
Germany" written by the Foreign Office in November 1934, it was
stated: "The development of the racial problem in Germany has
had very serious consequences for the Negroes living here. The
difficulties that the Negroes encounter in the practical
implementation of the racial question are less due to official
measures than to the general mood of the population. [...] The
general mood of the population on the racial question means that
the Negroes are often subjected to personal insults and
rejection, but above all in the fact that no employer dares to
employ Negroes out of consideration for the mood of the
public."13[/quote]
Source :
1. Treu bis in den Tod. Von Deutsch-Ostafrika nach
Sachsenhausen. Eine Lebensgeschichte 1 Aug. 2007 by Marianne
Bechhaus-Gerst Page 75 - 77
HTML https://books.google.co.id/books?redir_esc=y&hl=id&id=r9dVq2EsN7cC&q=Arbeitsschutz#v=onepage&q=martin%20bormann&f=false
2. Kuzniar-Clark - Black Nazis II Ethnic Minorities and
Foreigners in Hitler's Armed Forces page 46
It's the opposition towards democratic and popular decisions,
that can give protection to minority people with different
racial/social/conditional backgrounds.
[/quote]
Struggle to Integrate the immigrants from "Africa" continued,
even though the majority of "white Germans" and Officials other
than Martin Bormann's Circles did Discrimination
Translated from German into English Language with Google
Translate
[quote]Whether they would have been willing to do this in view
of their situation is an open question, as the strategically
motivated departure from ideological principles went largely
unnoticed by the population. The rejection of dark-skinned
people had developed a dynamic of its own, against which
short-term planning games in foreign policy could not do
anything. The Foreign Office had already stated in November 1934
that "Negroes are often subjected to personal insults and
rejection, but above all that, out of consideration for the mood
of the public, no entrepreneur dares to employ Negroes. In this
way, the Negroes are practically deprived of the opportunity to
earn money at home." The resulting "discontent among the
Negroes," the officials feared, could have "extremely unpleasant
repercussions" should "the question of granting a mandate to
Germany in Africa ever become acute."'
The authorities were almost helpless in documenting numerous
attacks and cases of discrimination. Dark-skinned Germans were
increasingly harassed by colleagues or fired by customers
because of the threat of a boycott.'* Some of those affected
received monthly allowances from the Foreign Office or were
placed as teachers in the Oriental Languages
​​Seminar at Berlin's Friedrich Wilhelm University.
Germans of African origin, however, were completely unprotected
against actual attacks or insults in everyday life.
The temporary protection did not change the authorities'
assessment of them as a "lower race" - contact, or even "mixing"
with "Aryans" was to be avoided at all costs. A "solution"
emerged in 1935, when the still popular concept of the
"Volkerschau" was taken up and all "natives from the former
colonies living in Germany" were united in the "German Africa
Show" to form a traveling stage troupe with the aim of "taking
the Negroes out of idleness" and "making racial crimes easier to
prevent" through better control.!? It did not matter in the
slightest to the initiators that the "natives" had never set
foot on African soil and were born in Germany. Most of them only
agreed to take part out of existential need.
As contradictory as the political guidelines were, so varied
were the fates of the Horn and Sabac el Cher families. As far as
we know, Editha and Herbert were spared hostilities, nobody
doubted their "Reich citizenship" - what's more, they were
successful. But for Ilse and Horst, and certainly for Elise and
Gertrud too, these were difficult, bitter years in which nothing
was as before. Although she was only "one-eighth black" and only
noticeable on the streets because of her rather southern
appearance, Ilse no longer understood the world that suddenly
wanted to suggest to her at every turn that she was "different"
from "German."[/quote]
Source :
1. Preussisches Liebesglück: eine deutsche Familie aus Afrika
page 169 - 170
2. Kuzniar-Clark - Black Nazis II Ethnic Minorities and
Foreigners in Hitler's Armed Forces page 53
#Post#: 27866--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
By: antihellenistic Date: September 16, 2024, 4:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=antihellenistic link=topic=1384.msg27836#msg27836
date=1726099864]
Continuing on the proof that Hitler did not endorse
Nordic/Germanic Paganism which was implemented by Heinrich
Himmler, the head of the SS paramilitary organization
[quote]It would seem to me to be incredibly foolish to allow a
Wotan cult to arise again.[/quote]
Source :
Monologe im Führerhauptquartier 1941–1944 by Heinrich Heim page
65
HTML https://archive.org/details/monologe-im-fuehrerhauptquartier/page/64/mode/2up
[quote]The Germanic peoples of the coast got it for their amber!
They up there were not at a higher level of culture than the
Maori![/quote]
Source :
Monologe im Führerhauptquartier 1941–1944 by Heinrich Heim page
227
HTML https://archive.org/details/monologe-im-fuehrerhauptquartier/page/226/mode/2up
Compare Hitler's worldview with the view from the pre-1960s
United States leaders
HTML https://t.me/Cultured_American/908
[/quote]
The Westerners and rightists side with Germanic tribes for their
inspiration, Hitler was sided with Rome
[quote]The Roman Empire is a great political creation, the
greatest of all. – Adolf Hitler, 21th July 1941[/quote]
Source :
1.
2.
#Post#: 27869--------------------------------------------------
Re: Western Revisionism of WWI and WWII
By: antihellenistic Date: September 16, 2024, 7:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hitler's plan had he won the war
[quote]Fundamentally, the Germans assumed that the Soviet
leadership was so weak and incompetent that it would be unable
to use its superior manpower and considerable military equipment
to suck them into a war of attrition. The huge gains made in the
first weeks of the campaign seemed initially to vindicate this
arrangement. On 3 July, army chief of staff Franz Haider
famously concluded that the battle had been won. 2 The bulk of
the Red Army had been eliminated 'this side of the Dvina and
Dnieper'. Finishing off the campaign in the East would demand
the Wehrmacht's attention as a mopping-up operation, but it was
time for the German leadership to turn its mind towards future
operations against the umbilicus of the British Empire, the land
route between the Nile and the Euphrates.
...
To Goebbels, Hitler opined that the Wehrmacht would soon be
advancing towards Stalingrad and the Don. Britain, finally,
would have no option but to come to terms. Prime Minister
Churchill would be removed from power. The British Empire would
be left intact, but 'England .. . has no future in Europe’. 24
The Eurasian landmass would be reserved for Germany, providing
it with the resources it needed to make itself into a truly
global power. In his address to the troops of Army Group Centre
on 2 October, Hitler made no secret of what was at stake. He
linked the battle for Moscow directly to the racial struggle.
Germany was now at war both with capitalistic Britain and
Bolshevik Russia. Superficially different, the two economic
systems were in fact fundamentally alike. Bolshevism was no
better than the worst kind of capitalism. It was a creator of
poverty and destitution and ’the bearers of this system', 'in
both cases', were 'the same: Jews and only Jews!' The assault on
Moscow was to deliver a 'deadly thrust' against this arch-enemy
of the German people. 23[/quote]
Source :
Tooze, Adam The Wages Of Destruction The Making And Breaking Of
The Nazi Economy page 487 and 491
HTML https://archive.org/details/ToozeAdamTheWagesOfDestructionTheMakingAndBreakingOfTheNaziEconomy/page/n511/mode/2up
#Post#: 27874--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
By: antihellenistic Date: September 17, 2024, 7:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hitler's main goal was against capitalism too rather than only
against Marxism, contrary to what many people believe about him
[quote]While the connection between Hitler’s anti-Semitism and
his anti-capitalism is often noted, and has been the subject of
some individual studies, its centrality to his world view, and
the extent to which he was fighting a war against ‘international
high finance’ and ‘plutocracy’ from start to finish, has not
been understood at all[/quote]
Once more, Hitler's treatment towards "blacks" always tend to be
more positive rather than Jews and Europeans
[quote]Hitler’s obsession with Jewry is thrown into stark relief
by the relatively mild treatment of the approximately 120,000
black French soldiers captured in May and June 1940; it was an
issue in which he showed virtually no interest. To be sure a
large number were massacred out of hand during and immediately
after the French campaign, but not at the Führer’s behest.226
Thereafter, treatment was better not least because the Germans
hoped to use some of them as auxiliary forces in their future
colonial empire. African prisoners were held in POW, not
concentration, camps. The only recorded intervention by Hitler
in this question was an OKW directive requiring the transfer of
non-white French captives to the unoccupied zone.227 His
concern, which dated from the occupation of the Rhineland in the
1920s, was to prevent any ‘contamination’ of the German
population.228 The general trend was that while conditions for
blacks in the camps generally improved over time, those of Jews
radically worsened. Hitler’s racial war was not primarily one of
white against black, but of Aryan against Jew.[/quote]
Source :
Hitler A Global Biography - Brendan Simms page 27 and 461
Note : Not all "blacks" were subject to oppression under
Hitler's regime, and the oppression mostly came from the masses
of German people which Hitler's government struggled to halt it.
Hitler also against using "blacks" as an auxiliary or colonial
troops. And if we already read book titled "Black Nazis II
Ethnic Minorities and Foreigners in Hitler's Armed Forces", not
all "blacks" were persecuted for committing "racial mixing".
This case already discussed on the previous post :
1. Hitler's rejection on using "blacks" as "auxiliary troops"
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/hitler-the-face-of-anti-tribalism/msg27680/#msg27680
2. Hitler's agreement on "blacks" being an immigrants and
workers to Germany
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/hitler-the-face-of-anti-tribalism/msg27857/#msg27857
3. Hitler accept racial mixing
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/hitler-the-face-of-anti-tribalism/msg14240/#msg14240
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/hitler-the-face-of-anti-tribalism/msg27849/?topicseen#msg27849
#Post#: 27881--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
By: antihellenistic Date: September 17, 2024, 8:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hitler's struggle to against Pro-Germanic/Nordic influences
during 1935 was historically recorded and written
[quote]But in Himmler’s view the Christianization of the Teutons
was above all the fault of ‘Charles the Frank’, that is,
Charlemagne, whom he repeatedly accused in public speeches of
slaughtering the Saxons;75 his son, Louis the Pious, was for
Himmler simply ‘infected with Jewishness’.76
Himmler’s negative appraisal of Charlemagne made no impression
on Hitler, however, who in his speech to the party conference in
1935 emphasized that in the process of forming the empire of the
early Middle Ages Christianity had been effective in creating
communities, and declared Charlemagne the historic unifier of
the Reich, a judgement he backed up with comments in his private
circle.77 Thereupon Himmler reversed his opinion: in the SS
Guidance Booklets there appeared an article by H. W. Scheidt,
head of the indoctrination office of Alfred Rosenberg (usually
regarded as Himmler’s main ideological competitor), in which the
latter declared that the ‘true reason for the conflicts with the
Saxons and the other methods of subjugation employed by
Charlemagne was his thoroughly Germanic will to power and his
recognition that the centralized political ideology and
religious cult 271 power he enjoyed needed urgently to be
extended’.78 Himmler himself was strikingly slow to comment.
Only in 1944 did he concede that Charlemagne was the ‘subject of
much controversy, much revered and in the final analysis— in
spite of all the things we [ . . . ] don’t like about him and
which we must nevertheless understand as part of the power
struggle involved in forming an empire—a great man, because he
founded the Reich’.79
...
In November 1936 Himmler requested the SS-Gruppenfuhrer not to
conduct birth or marriage ceremonies on SS premises or in
public, but rather within the family.200 Any report in the press
was to be avoided.201 The private nature of these ceremonies, as
Himmler explained to the Gruppenfuhrer, should prevent any
‘priest’ from turning up and objecting that a ‘heathen marriage’
or ‘something like a church ritual’ was being carried out. He
wished to avoid, he said, ‘taking a step out of time, one for
which people are not ready and that would not yet be understood
and so would make a ridiculous impression’.202 There were good
reasons for Himmler to be nervous about making the SS cult,
which he had expressly designed, all too public, as will become
clear through other examples. He feared not only ridicule from
the public, but in particular Hitler’s negative attitude with
regard to any too pronounced revival of the Germanic heritage:
‘Rosenberg, Himmler, and Darre´ have to stop this nonsense with
cults’, he had said in 1935, according to Goebbels’s
diary.203[/quote]
Source :
Peter Longerich, Heinrich Himmler, A life page 271, 272, 293
#Post#: 27883--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
By: antihellenistic Date: September 17, 2024, 8:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=antihellenistic link=topic=1384.msg27881#msg27881
date=1726622146]
Hitler's struggle to against Pro-Germanic/Nordic influences
during 1935 was historically recorded and written
[quote]But in Himmler’s view the Christianization of the Teutons
was above all the fault of ‘Charles the Frank’, that is,
Charlemagne, whom he repeatedly accused in public speeches of
slaughtering the Saxons;75 his son, Louis the Pious, was for
Himmler simply ‘infected with Jewishness’.76
Himmler’s negative appraisal of Charlemagne made no impression
on Hitler, however, who in his speech to the party conference in
1935 emphasized that in the process of forming the empire of the
early Middle Ages Christianity had been effective in creating
communities, and declared Charlemagne the historic unifier of
the Reich, a judgement he backed up with comments in his private
circle.77 Thereupon Himmler reversed his opinion: in the SS
Guidance Booklets there appeared an article by H. W. Scheidt,
head of the indoctrination office of Alfred Rosenberg (usually
regarded as Himmler’s main ideological competitor), in which the
latter declared that the ‘true reason for the conflicts with the
Saxons and the other methods of subjugation employed by
Charlemagne was his thoroughly Germanic will to power and his
recognition that the centralized political ideology and
religious cult 271 power he enjoyed needed urgently to be
extended’.78 Himmler himself was strikingly slow to comment.
Only in 1944 did he concede that Charlemagne was the ‘subject of
much controversy, much revered and in the final analysis— in
spite of all the things we [ . . . ] don’t like about him and
which we must nevertheless understand as part of the power
struggle involved in forming an empire—a great man, because he
founded the Reich’.79
...
In November 1936 Himmler requested the SS-Gruppenfuhrer not to
conduct birth or marriage ceremonies on SS premises or in
public, but rather within the family.200 Any report in the press
was to be avoided.201 The private nature of these ceremonies, as
Himmler explained to the Gruppenfuhrer, should prevent any
‘priest’ from turning up and objecting that a ‘heathen marriage’
or ‘something like a church ritual’ was being carried out. He
wished to avoid, he said, ‘taking a step out of time, one for
which people are not ready and that would not yet be understood
and so would make a ridiculous impression’.202 There were good
reasons for Himmler to be nervous about making the SS cult,
which he had expressly designed, all too public, as will become
clear through other examples. He feared not only ridicule from
the public, but in particular Hitler’s negative attitude with
regard to any too pronounced revival of the Germanic heritage:
‘Rosenberg, Himmler, and Darre´ have to stop this nonsense with
cults’, he had said in 1935, according to Goebbels’s
diary.203[/quote]
Source :
Peter Longerich, Heinrich Himmler, A life page 271, 272, 293
[/quote]
Continuing
[quote]Paganism never enjoyed a formal backing of government.
On the contrary, the heathenish sectarianism of its various
factions was not only considered a threat to the unity of the
German folk, but also to the respectability of National
Socialism and its claim to constitute a scientific worldview
rather than a spiritual reform programme. With only a few
exceptions, the Nazi leadership harboured no doubts that
Paganism, given free play, would endanger the ideological
consensus of the nation[/quote]
Source :
Nordic Ideology in the SS and the SS Ahnenerbe Horst Junginger
HTML https://www.academia.edu/31770398/Nordic_Ideology_in_the_SS_and_the_SS_Ahnenerbe_2013_
#Post#: 27884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
By: 90sRetroFan Date: September 17, 2024, 8:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]Alfred Rosenberg (usually regarded as Himmler’s main
ideological competitor)[/quote]
This is at least better than shoehorning Rosenberg into the same
camp as Himmler as some other historians have done.
*****************************************************
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