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#Post#: 14282--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
DIR By: christianbethel
Date: June 23, 2022, 11:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, if you're going to shít on me and my contributions you may
as well shít on AS' too, because he quotes Wagener on the main
site and list the memoir on the 'Resources About Hitler' page.
#Post#: 14283--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
DIR By: Panzerfaust
Date: June 23, 2022, 1:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> In the context given these words by Hitler are not explicitly
anti-homophobic though, it is more a statist position than
anything I would argue. It can be used to prove Hitler could not
have been homophobic, however. By itself, it is not an
anti-homophobic statement. What about a relationship between a
dolphin and a human, as an example?
--- End Quote ---
The correct answer was: Statism by itself implies
anti-tribalism, does it not?
HTML https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-human-nature-as-manifested-in-tribalism-and-nationalism-provides-the-momentum-of-the-arthur-keith-125-36-65.jpg
HTML https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/92/56/334153342-quote-you-d-never-know-that-listening-to-people-in-the-un-but-tribalism-is-the-father-of-racism-stanley-crouch-44791.jpg
[img]
HTML https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9wKFLY8EdHp_lpo3NoXIvi0yqpDYBBGakdQ&usqp=CAU[/img]
Are you sure you even understand tribalism versus nationalism at
all?
#Post#: 14289--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
DIR By: SirGalahad
Date: June 23, 2022, 3:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Honestly, at this point, I think it's preferable to prove why
anti-tribalism and anti-ethnocentrism should be and in fact are
key tenets of our ideology, than to prove that Hitler himself
was opposed to ethnocentrism. Some of the reasonings provided on
the main website for Hitler being opposed to it are convincing,
but some of them aren't. I think Aryanism should be able to
stand on its own without Hitler, because even after debunking
some of the myths conjured by the West against Hitler's regime,
I think that the National Socialism of that era was too mired in
ethnocentrism. Regardless of whether Mein Kampf was just a
publicity stunt or not, it's still the main book that Hitler
wrote and was explicitly Nordicist, and Alfred Rosenberg's "The
Myth of the 20th Century" also talked about a Nordic race and
identified the Aryans with the Indo-Europeans, which is a big
no-no for us, given what we now know about the Indo-Europeans.
The Indo-Europeans/Vedics were practically the opposite of
Aryans. A lot of the people that Hitler surrounded himself with
were ethnocentrists in general. That's not to say that Hitler
wasn't different from the white tribalists of his time, because
he most certainly was. He was clearly a different breed from the
likes of Winston Churchill and others of the past who supported
western colonialism and racism. But I think there are a few key
issues that can't go ignored.
My biggest issue with the narrative of "Hitler was just trying
to appeal to the masses, who were mostly racist at the time" is
this: How were the communists able to promote an
anti-ethnocentric worldview in predominantly white countries at
the same exact time as the National Socialists then? If they
could do it, then logically, nothing precluded Hitler from
promoting an anti-ethnocentric racial theory within Germany if
he so desired. But he didn't, so Occam's Razor says that it's
most likely that he just didn't know enough about racial theory
to form the same conclusions that we have, and ended up falling
into the trappings of ethnocentrism because of that
informational gap, or perhaps just straight up due to bias
#Post#: 14290--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
DIR By: guest78
Date: June 23, 2022, 5:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: SirGalahad link ---
>
> Honestly, at this point, I think it's preferable to prove why
anti-tribalism and anti-ethnocentrism should be and in fact are
key tenets of our ideology, than to prove that Hitler himself
was opposed to ethnocentrism. Some of the reasonings provided on
the main website for Hitler being opposed to it are convincing,
but some of them aren't. I think Aryanism should be able to
stand on its own without Hitler, because even after debunking
some of the myths conjured by the West against Hitler's regime,
I think that the National Socialism of that era was too mired in
ethnocentrism. Regardless of whether Mein Kampf was just a
publicity stunt or not, it's still the main book that Hitler
wrote and was explicitly Nordicist, and Alfred Rosenberg's "The
Myth of the 20th Century" also talked about a Nordic race and
identified the Aryans with the Indo-Europeans, which is a big
no-no for us, given what we now know about the Indo-Europeans.
The Indo-Europeans/Vedics were practically the opposite of
Aryans. A lot of the people that Hitler surrounded himself with
were ethnocentrists in general. That's not to say that Hitler
wasn't different from the white tribalists of his time, because
he most certainly was. He was clearly a different breed from the
likes of Winston Churchill and others of the past who supported
western colonialism and racism. But I think there are a few key
issues that can't go ignored.
>
> My biggest issue with the narrative of "Hitler was just trying
to appeal to the masses, who were mostly racist at the time" is
this: How were the communists able to promote an
anti-ethnocentric worldview in predominantly white countries at
the same exact time as the National Socialists then? If they
could do it, then logically, nothing precluded Hitler from
promoting an anti-ethnocentric racial theory within Germany if
he so desired. But he didn't, so Occam's Razor says that it's
most likely that he just didn't know enough about racial theory
to form the same conclusions that we have, and ended up falling
into the trappings of ethnocentrism because of that
informational gap, or perhaps just straight up due to bias
--- End Quote ---
Great points! It would have been interesting to see where Hitler
took his National Socialism had he not had to fight the Soviets
and Bolshevism. Hitler and Goebbels made some excellent points
though in the 12 years National Socialism existed, they
certainly laid a solid foundation for an ideology to be built
upon.
#Post#: 14293--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: June 23, 2022, 9:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"How were the communists able to promote an anti-ethnocentric
worldview in predominantly white countries at the same exact
time as the National Socialists then? If they could do it, then
logically, nothing precluded Hitler from promoting an
anti-ethnocentric racial theory within Germany if he so
desired."
I have highlighted your bait-and-switch in bold. Communists
promoted blank slate theory as their anti-ethnocentric
worldview. But National Socialism rejects blank slate theory on
principle. As you say, National Socialism in order to be true to
its principles would have to promote an anti-ethnocentric racial
theory. This, however, is much harder than promoting blank slate
theory. Therefore the fact that communists successfully promoted
blank slate theory at best implies that Hitler could also have
similarly successfully promoted blank slate theory, but does not
imply that Hitler could have similarly successfully promoted an
anti-ethnocentric racial theory.
"Occam's Razor says that it's most likely that he just didn't
know enough about racial theory to form the same conclusions
that we have, and ended up falling into the trappings of
ethnocentrism because of that informational gap, or perhaps just
straight up due to bias"
I agree that Hitler probably had less information than we have
about race, but it remains my belief that he knew (even if on
intuition alone) that Rosenberg had screwed up badly, which is
why:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_the_Twentieth_Century#Influence_of_the_book
--- Quote ---
> Adolf Hitler declared that it was not to be considered
official ideology of the Nazi Party:
>
> I must insist that Rosenberg's "The Myth of the Twentieth
Century" is not to be regarded as an expression of the official
doctrine of the party. The moment the book appeared, I
deliberately refrained from recognizing it as any such thing. In
the first place, its title gives a completely false
impression... a National Socialist should affirm that to the
myth of the nineteenth century he opposes the faith and science
of our times... I have myself merely glanced cursorily at it.[7]
>
> According to journalist Konrad Heiden, Rosenberg had given the
manuscript to Hitler to vet before its publication. After a year
Hitler still had nothing to say. Hitler gave the still-unread
work back to him saying, "I feel sure that it's all right."[11]
--- End Quote ---
As for Mein Kampf:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Anti-Slavism_and_Lebensraum_(%22living_space%22)
--- Quote ---
> Hitler described that when he was in Vienna it was repugnant
for him to see the mixture of races “of Czechs, Poles,
Hungarians, Ruthenians (Ukrainians), Serbs and Croats, and
always that infection which dissolves human society, the Jew,
were all here and there and everywhere.”[20]
--- End Quote ---
this is a consistent anti-Turanist attitude (almost identical to
what I promote here, by the way). To portray Hitler as an
ethnocentrist, your only remaining option is to argue that
Hitler was a narrow Germanic ethnocentrist who considered even
speakers of other branches of PIE-derived languages too
ancestrally distant from speakers of Germanic languages. But
then:
--- Quote ---
> He also wrote that he viewed the Japanese victory over the
Russians in the Russo-Japanese War in 1904 as a “blow to
Austrian Slavism”.[21]
--- End Quote ---
That he was happy about this makes it impossible for his
worldview to be based in any kind of ethnocentrism (unless you
want to argue that he believed that Germans and Japanese had
common ancestors not shared by Russians).
"I think Aryanism should be able to stand on its own without
Hitler"
I am confident that it already does. But that doesn't mean we
should try to distance ourselves from Hitler either. The reason
why most present-day leftists are misguided is because they
still believe Hitler was the bad guy in WWII. Without clearing
this up, all leftist rhetoric will continue to sound confused
(e.g. comparing Israel to "Nazis"). If we were to stay silent on
Hitler, eventually we will get (possibly well-meaning) leftists
joining us who start to use similar rhetoric, which will surely
corrupt our movement. It is to scare away such leftists from
joining that we make such a big show of holding up Hitler as one
of our heroes.
#Post#: 14298--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
DIR By: guest78
Date: June 23, 2022, 10:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> How were the communists able to promote an anti-ethnocentric
worldview in predominantly white countries at the same exact
time as the National Socialists then?
--- End Quote ---
The fact that anyone could bring themselves to say such a thing
considering proven Russian "whiteness" present day, Russia's
colonial past, and the Jewishness of Marx himself, boggles the
mind!
[img]
HTML https://external-preview.redd.it/Hs5LF-ubSpYlJ1aZ4aBw0-BowezmqJG9AYJld5R-QHg.jpg?auto=webp&s=56685c98850b7caa36e21766cc4d08b190647ce2[/img]
--- Quote ---
> "Cuckservative" is a pejorative[1] formed as a portmanteau of
"cuck", an abbreviation of the word "cuckold", and the political
designation "conservative".[2] It has become a label used by
white nationalists and the alt-right in the United
States.[3][4][5][6] The word "cuckservative" reached a high
level of mainstream political conversation around mid-July 2015,
where it gained media attention just a few weeks before the
start of the first Republican primary debate for the 2016 United
States presidential election.[4][7]
>
> The term, as well as the shortened form "cuck" for cuckold,
originated on websites such as 4chan (specifically the /pol/
imageboard) and 8chan, the right-wing message board My Posting
Career,[1][3] the blog The Right Stuff,[8] and other sites
associated with the alt-right.[3][9][10]
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckservative
You can lead a conservative and communist to water, but you
cannot stop them from shitting in it!
--- Quote ---
> The slaughter of the firstborn reveals that clearly enough.
Just as they have done with us, the Jews had won the great lower
stratum of the population for themselves -- 'Liberty, Equality,
Fraternity!' -- until one night they sent out the order, 'Down
with the bourgeois! Kill them, the dogs!' but things didn't turn
out so well as they had expected.
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/Bolshevism_From_Moses_to_Lenin.pdf
Illiterates!
See also:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/turanian-diffusion/?message=14246<br
/>
#Post#: 14311--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
DIR By: christianbethel
Date: June 24, 2022, 12:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> ...Chamberlain nowhere gives a specific morphological identity
to his "German," although he does wax enthusiastic over the
tall, blond dolichocephal (long head). On the other hand he
suggests, perhaps taking his cue from Gobineau, who was
convinced of the heterogeneity of the Aryan type, that some of
the purest "Germans" are brunets, even raven-haired. Nor does
Chamberlain deny creativity nor value to other races. So there
is evidence that the National Socialist theory of race at this
time was more than somewhat vague and indeterminate, at least
with respect to the problem of how one identified one's select
race. Nowhere in the early literature of the Movement does the
designation "Nordic" figure with any prominence, least of all in
Hitler's public statements. Even at the close of this first
period, in 1930, when Rosenberg's Mythos appeared, his use of
the word "Nordic" was strictly qualified by this pronouncement:
"…nothing would be more superficial than to measure a man's
worth by his physical appearance (with a centimeter rule and
cephalic indices). A far more accurate measure of worth is
conduct."
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
--- Quote ---
> By 1938 Ludwig Ferdinand Clauss mocked the entire procedure of
assigning certain mental traits ("ability to make judgments,"
"love of truth," etc.) to specific races as distinguishing
characteristics. "It is true", he said, "that Nordic men are
capable of making judgments. No one denies that. No one denies,
for that matter, that Nordic men occasionally eat, drink and
sleep - it only seems doubtful that these characteristics would
distinguish them from men of other races."
>
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
--- Quote ---
> ...Similarly, if all creativity derives from Nordic blood why
have the most prominent men in European history been of
manifestly mixed racial origin? "Many of the men," Fischer, Baur
and Lenz contended, "who are universally regarded as the
greatest in history (for instance, Socrates, Michelangelo,
Luther, Goethe and Beethoven) were obviously of mixed race.
Speaking generally, it is exceptional to find that distinguished
men exhibit a pure racial type." And, of course, as a corollary
to that even sincere friends were driven to ask of these
enthusiastic adherents of Nordicism: why did the Nordic Race,
where it had been preserved from the admixture of lower
potential, in Scandinavia and Northern Europe in general, have
to wait until it was stimulated by bastard peoples from the
Mediterranean before it developed any advanced culture of its
own?
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
--- Quote ---
> ...For in a genetically mixed population there is no simple
correlation between physical appearance and potentiality so that
an individual possessed of the racial livery of the Nordic must
also have a Nordic soul. Characteristics are transmitted through
a particular chromosomal substance, the gene. In a mixed
population each individual inherits a total of anywhere from
10,000 to 45,000 genes. With a random mixture, conducted over at
least the last three thousand years (i.e., the presence of mixed
types in the earliest "Nordic" graves87 ) the number of gene
combinations would be infinite - meaning that the correlation
coefficient between physical and psychic characteristics could,
mathematically, be expected to be nil. More precisely one could
not say with any assurance that an individual displaying all the
physical traits of the Nordic race was equally possessed with
(presuming there to be any) Nordic mental characteristics. The
chances that an individual in contemporary Europe should have
inherited from an astronomical number of ancestors only Nordic
traits are millions to one.
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
--- Quote ---
> Günther was to be specifically rejected. While recognizing the
fact that his books had served to stimulate inquiry into the
intricate problems of race, the pernicious aspects of the
"Nordic hypothesis" were decried. The enthusiasm with which
Günther's ideas had been accepted, Weinert wrote, precipitated
conclusions for which "there was no biological foundation… The
consequence was often that an unfounded race-pride threatened to
sunder the German people."
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
--- Quote ---
> The first clear statement on official reorientation had come
from Hitler himself only seven months after he came to power, at
the 1933 Nuremberg Parteitag. Hitler said: "We do not conclude
from a man's physical type his ability, but rather from his
achievements his race."
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
--- Quote ---
> Thieme repeats Hitler's principle and adds "the men who bear
the qualities of heroism, strength of will, a readiness to
sacrifice and faith have played a decisive role in deciding
Germany's destiny, and they shall continue to do so even if they
are not all tall, blond or blue-eyed."
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
--- Quote ---
> Eichenauer goes so far as to inform his readers that the
amount of Nordic blood an individual possesses means nothing
(spielt keine Rolle) in the Nordic scheme of things because "it
has often enough been the case that men of extremely mixed race
(stark gemischter Rasse) have conceived and more powerfully
grasped these notions than the predominantly Nordic."
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
--- Quote ---
> In mid-1936 the Nationalsocialistische Korrespondenz stated
with clarity and authority: "From his deeds one can recognize
the Nordic man - not from the length of his nose and the colour
of his eyes." In effect this last phase of National Socialist
race theory was a complete rejection of Günther's Nordicism.
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
--- Quote ---
> ...We are told that "the races distinguish themselves not
through their characteristics; for the same characteristics can
be found in different races…For example a Mediterranean can be
as courageous as a Nordic, an Alpine as musical as a Dinaric, an
East Balt as cunning as a Nordic. On the other hand not all
Mediterraneans are courageous, nor all Nordics. But when a
Mediterranean is courageous he is courageous in a 'Mediterranean
fashion' as a Nordic would be courageous in a 'Nordic fashion'."
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
--- Quote ---
> Here is an entirely different racism, an entirely different
Nordicism than that of Günther and his followers. Here there was
no question of general inferiority - it was a question of
maintaining an ideal as an archetype for an entire civilization.
Germany had a Nordic archetype; its art form was Nordic; its
literature and philosophy, its music and institutions were
inspired by Nordic ideals. Each German was bequeathed this
patrimony from the original racial elements, now inextricably
mixed into the German Nation, among which the Nordic
predominated. It was not a question of intrinsic worth, national
and racial superiority and inferiority tearing asunder the
peoples of Europe. There is no transcendental standard by which
to evaluate racial differences. A people characteristically
Mongolian treasures a Mongolian heritage and ideal, a
Mediterranean people a Mediterranean one.
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
--- Quote ---
> Dr. Walter Gross, head of the Rassenpolitische Amt of the
National Socialist Party, said: "We appreciate the fact that
those of another race are different from us… Whether that other
race is 'better' or 'worse' is not possible for us to judge. For
this would demand that we transcend our own racial limitations
for the duration of the verdict and take on a superhuman, even
divine, attitude from which alone an 'impersonal' verdict could
be formed on the value or lack of such of the many living forms
of inexhaustible Nature." Less than a year later, in 1939, he
defined the official position of mature National Socialist race
theory: "A serious situation arose through the fact that other
people and States, because of German race laws… felt themselves
attacked and defamed … For example the whole world of the Far
East remained for a long time under the impression that the
Germans… had designated them as non-Aryan, and as non-Aryans
inferior rabble - (that the) Germans had designated (them)
unworthy, second class humanity and that the Germans imagined
themselves as the sole bearers of culture… What could we say to
those who saw in German racism a fundamental defamation of men
of other races? We could do nothing other than, with patience
and conviction, repeat that German racism does not evaluate or
deprecate other racial groups… It only recognizes,
scientifically, that differences exist… We have often been
disturbed by the indiscretion or even stupidity in our own land
when, just after we had carefully made clear to some people or
other that we respected and honoured… their racial qualities,
some wild fool manufactured his own ideas about race and
declared that these same people were racially inferior and stood
somewhere below the cow or the ass, and that their
characteristics were degrading or impure and lord knows what
else! But such idiotic assertions were repelled and offended not
only alien peoples in distant parts of the world but even our
own neighbours in Europe, many times even friends of National
Socialist Germany bound to us historically and in destiny."
>
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
--- Quote ---
> ...Finally, late in the war, even under the gathering shadows
of defeat, the Headquarters of the Reichsfuehrer SS published
the work of Dr. Ludwig Eckstein. He carefully dissected the
remains of the Nordicism purchased over a decade before at so
high a cost, and concluded: "While supporting our own race, and
if necessary fighting against other races to protect its right
to existence, we should not overlook the fact that almost all
races display something in themselves that is sound and
biologically resolved and therefore beautiful, natural and
valuable… Each race carries first of all the measure of worth in
itself. When once we understand this then we do not foster
feelings of inferiority in others, a consequence that the
hitherto existing race theories have too often achieved…"
>
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
--- Quote ---
> In Italy the same tendencies revealed themselves in the
Fascist Race Manifesto of 1938, and in the work of Maggiore and
Franzi. Everywhere the talk was no longer of fixed and immutable
races, but of races in formation, the components for which arise
out of the crucible of the past - races in formation cast over
by the ideal of a living heritage - for Germany a Nordic Mythos,
for Italy an animating devotion of Romanita. The talk is of
races yet to be fashioned by living an ideal, united by a common
destiny, nurtured in a common environment, the political
expression of which is Nationhood. Here are the germs of a
worldview which makes of man a creator, a builder of future
races; a philosophy which unites history, politics and race,
eugenics and humanism, pride in self and respect for others, a
philosophy scientifically sound and emotionally satisfying.
--- End Quote ---
(A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
#Post#: 14328--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
DIR By: SirGalahad
Date: June 24, 2022, 10:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
@90sRetroFan
"Communists promoted blank slate theory as their
anti-ethnocentric worldview. But National Socialism rejects
blank slate theory on principle. As you say, National Socialism
in order to be true to its principles would have to promote an
anti-ethnocentric racial theory. This, however, is much harder
than promoting blank slate theory. Therefore the fact that
communists successfully promoted blank slate theory at best
implies that Hitler could also have similarly successfully
promoted blank slate theory, but does not imply that Hitler
could have similarly successfully promoted an anti-ethnocentric
racial theory."
I agree that anti-ethnocentric race theory would be more
difficult to promote than blank slate theory, but the real
question is whether it would have made Hitler's mission that
much harder. He was already struggling in a war where everyone
was attacking him on all sides, so he really had nothing to lose
by openly promoting something more similar to what we promote
now. And the world honestly would have been better for it,
because it would have been impossible to slander National
Socialism with 99% of the accusations currently levied against
it. Imagine how easy our job would be if it had always been
obvious from the beginning that National Socialism was
anti-racist. Historical baggage is the #1 reason why our ranks
aren't growing nearly as fast as we wish they would. The issue
is that while you could theoretically make a case that Hitler
was anti-racist and believed in a theory that was in conflict
with ethnocentrism, as has been done on the main site, there
just isn't enough definitive evidence to definitively prove the
case. To make our case of Hitler's true beliefs and character
relies on too many assumptions, which is only natural since I'm
sure we can both at least agree that Hitler never stated
outright what his true beliefs were, if he even had any hidden
true beliefs, and if they were even comparable to our views
"this is a consistent anti-Turanist attitude (almost identical
to what I promote here, by the way). To portray Hitler as an
ethnocentrist, your only remaining option is to argue that
Hitler was a narrow Germanic ethnocentrist who considered even
speakers of other branches of PIE-derived languages too
ancestrally distant from speakers of Germanic languages."
That would potentially be my assumption, if Hitler could be
described as an ethnocentrist. Although I'm sure plenty of white
nationalists would argue that Hitler was simply slandering
Eastern Europeans for propagandistic purposes, since they were
warring against him
"That he was happy about this makes it impossible for his
worldview to be based in any kind of ethnocentrism (unless you
want to argue that he believed that Germans and Japanese had
common ancestors not shared by Russians)."
The "honorary Aryan" thing isn't too convincing for
self-described leftists, because it could easily be met with the
argument of "Well the people described as honorary Aryans were
the ones that were valuable to his war effort in some way." And
on the surface, that's a fair assessment to make if you truly
believe that Hitler was racist. Also, the apartheid regime of
Azania had a similar title of "honorary white" that was applied
to the Japanese, Chinese, and the Koreans. So it especially
wouldn't be all that convincing for "black" people and
white-passing leftists in Azania, or for people who are aware of
the former use of this term in apartheid Azania in general
By the way, if you're using the phrase "bait-and-switch" with
it's negative association, I would never do such a thing. I
respect you far too much, both as a person and as the defacto
head of the ideology in its current iteration
#Post#: 14329--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: June 25, 2022, 1:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"he really had nothing to lose by openly promoting something
more similar to what we promote now."
By doing that he would have risked Himmler rallying the
Nordicists and overthrowing him, and I am sure he sensed this.
If he had managed to replace Himmler with Heydrich as the leader
of the SS, then it might have been safe enough for him to do
what you suggest. But with Heydrich assassinated in 1942, that
was dead in the water. From there Hitler's only hope was to win
WWII first. We all know how that turned out.
It was in the 1945 "Political Testament of Adolf Hitler" (when
Hitler knew he had lost WWII, and hence truly had nothing more
to lose) that he came out with the clearest anti-ethnocentric
statements, such as:
"I am sure that the Japanese, the Chinese and the peoples of
Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France."
and
"I feel much more sympathetically inclined to the lowliest Hindu
than to any of these arrogant [British] islanders."
Why would he have bothered with such statements (shortly before
suicide FFS) if he was not a committed anti-ethnocentrist at
heart?
"there just isn't enough definitive evidence to definitively
prove the case."
I know, and whereas False Leftists will choose to believe in
racist Hitler, True Leftists will choose to believe in
anti-racist Hitler. Just like how Judeo-Christians believe in
Yahwist Jesus while Gnostic Christians believe in anti-Yahwist
Jesus. It is always like this.
"it could easily be met with the argument of "Well the people
described as honorary Aryans were the ones that were valuable to
his war effort in some way.""
Then how do they explain the quotes above, made after he knew
WWII was already lost?
"Also, the apartheid regime of Azania had a similar title of
"honorary white" that was applied to the Japanese, Chinese, and
the Koreans."
But there were no "Europeans" who were excluded from "whiteness"
under Apartheid. Therefore Apartheid could still be argued as
ethnocentric (Arctic Alliance style), since it is in fact the
case that Japanese are ancestrally more closely related to Dutch
than Xhosa are closely related to Dutch.
Hitler, in contrast, included Japanese while excluding Russians,
despite it being obvious that Russians are ancestrally much
closer to Germans than Japanese are close to Germans. Do you not
see the structural difference?
#Post#: 14337--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
DIR By: christianbethel
Date: June 26, 2022, 12:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> ...Hitler disapproved of such [racial] comparisons. He
especially opposed reference to physical contrasts of stature,
coloring, or physiognomy among German ethnic groups. In 1930 he
told an aid, “Discussions about the race problem will only
divide the German people further, incite them against one
another, atomize them, and in this way make them inconsequential
with respect to foreign affairs.” He admonished senior officials
of the party to avoid the subject of ethnic diversity in
speeches and articles: “Everything that unifies and welds the
classes together must be brought forth, what divides them, what
re-animates old prejudices, must be avoided. . . .They are the
surest way to destroy a community.” He remarked that people
should be selected for leadership roles “not according to
outward appearance, but by demonstrating inward ability."
Goebbels, himself a diminutive man with a slight limp, recorded
in his diary in October 1937, “Discussed race policy with Dr.
Gross. I reproached him for our flawed standards for making
selections. According to them, practically every officer today
would be dismissed."
>
--- End Quote ---
(2013. Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1, 'Racial
Hygiene' section)
--- Quote ---
> Hitler believed that the more capable and fit among the
Germans should not set themselves above other groups to preserve
or advance their particular bloodline. It was their duty to help
elevate the German nation as an entity. As summarized by his
chronicler Dr. Henry Picker, Hitler was “firmly resolved to
transfer racially excellent military units, such as formations
of the Waffen SS, to every region where the indigenous people
are substandard. They will provide for the population by
replenishing its bloodlines." (The Waffen SS was an elite branch
of the German military requiring high physical standards for
enrollment.)
>
--- End Quote ---
(2013. Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1, 'Racial
Hygiene' section)
--- Quote ---
> Though believing in the inequality of mankind, Hitler opposed
clique-forming or elitist attitudes among his countrymen’s more
gifted persons or ethnic groups. He measured people not by what
nature gave them, but by how they contributed their talents, be
they lofty or modest, to advance the national community. This
was a standard every German could aspire to, regardless of his
or her station in society. Personal attitude and endeavor, not
the circumstances of birth, determine the superior being. In a
speech as chancellor of Germany, Hitler described the evolution
of his country into a social, national, and spiritual entity:
“The German people came into being no differently than almost
every truly creative civilized nation we know of in the world. A
numerically small, talented race, capable of organizing and
creating civilization, established itself over other peoples in
the course of many centuries. It in part absorbed them, in part
adapted to them. All members of our people have of course
contributed their special talents to this union. It was,
however, created by a nation-and-state forming elite alone. This
race imposed its language, naturally not without borrowing from
those it subjugated. And all shared a common fate for so long,
that the life of the people directing the affairs of state
became inseparably bound to the life of the gradually
assimilating other members. All the while, conqueror and
conquered had long become a community. This is our German people
of today. . . . Our only wish is that all members contribute
their best to the prosperity of our national life. As long as
every element gives what it has to give, this element in so
doing will help benefit all our lives."
--- End Quote ---
(2013. Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1, 'Racial
Hygiene' section)
--- Quote ---
> Hitler promoted whatever contributed to this goal
[unification] and rejected what did not. A literate man with a
profound grasp of history, he fashioned a political philosophy
that interpreted Germany’s past as a continuous, progressive
struggle for independence and unification. Disharmony among the
Germans had cost them freedom and life. The Roman Empire had
imposed an immoral foreign influence until the Cheruskan
Arminius unified prominent German tribes to force the invaders
out.
>
--- End Quote ---
(2013. Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1, 'The Nation
as One' section)
--- Quote ---
> Hitler grew up in the social milieu that Nietzsche criticized
for its class distinctions. World War I, during which Hitler saw
combat in an infantry regiment, welded various social factions
into an entity. “At the front, the feeling of being destined to
belong together, the feeling of a community, was by and large
reborn,” Gross wrote in Der Schulungsbrief. Hitler and his
comrades felt solidarity in the trenches but found it undermined
by political discord at home. “The enemy no longer faced the
frontline soldier just as an honorable fighting man, but also
made trouble behind the front,” a journal for the German armed
forces related. During the post-war period, the country suffered
economic distress, political disharmony and foreign
exploitation. Hitler later declared that when the German people
“form a unified bloc, they are a power. When they are divided,
they are defenseless and impotent."
--- End Quote ---
(2013. Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1, 'The Nation
as One' section)
--- Quote ---
> By emphasizing German unity, National Socialism followed in
the footsteps of the Romans' nemesis Arminius, the Prussian
reformers who rose against Napoleon, the statesman Bismarck, and
the eminent Nietzsche.The matter of Germany’s moral, social, and
political harmony influenced the NSDAP’s stand on virtually
every major issue. [In] National Socialism, the journal Der SA.
Führer (The SA Officer) wrote, recognized that “the labor
question was the cardinal social problem of the 19th and 20th
Centuries. ... It confronted liberalism’s materialistic,
distorted idea of freedom, which leads to abuse and to the rule
of a capitalist minority, with a new freedom; one based on the
growth of the individual fellow citizen within the national
community according to achievement. Unlike the disfranchisement
of labor through liberalism, National Socialism incorporates the
worker into German society, elevating him and his
accomplishments onto par with the rest of the nation."
--- End Quote ---
(2013. Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1, 'The Nation
as One' section)
--- Quote ---
> Judging someone’s worth according to performance, as far as
Hitler was concerned, superseded questions of ethnic standing
within the German community. Though many National Socialists
based their world view on scientific research on race, the
government under Hitler also relied on education to realize
human potential. Goebbels wrote in his diary in June 1936,
[b]“the Führer sharply disapproves of the work of all the race
committees." Hitler based his attitude on the potential negative
impact such activities could exercise on national unity.
--- End Quote ---
(2013. Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1, 'The Nation
as One' section)
*****************************************************
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