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       #Post#: 14282--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
       By: christianbethel Date: June 23, 2022, 11:08 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Well, if you're going to shít on me and my contributions you may
       as well shít on AS' too, because he quotes Wagener on the main
       site and list the memoir on the 'Resources About Hitler' page.
       #Post#: 14283--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
       By: Panzerfaust Date: June 23, 2022, 1:02 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]In the context given these words by Hitler are not
       explicitly anti-homophobic though, it is more a statist position
       than anything I would argue. It can be used to prove Hitler
       could not have been homophobic, however. By itself, it is not an
       anti-homophobic statement. What about a relationship between a
       dolphin and a human, as an example?[/quote]
       The correct answer was: Statism by itself implies
       anti-tribalism, does it not?
  HTML https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-human-nature-as-manifested-in-tribalism-and-nationalism-provides-the-momentum-of-the-arthur-keith-125-36-65.jpg
  HTML https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/92/56/334153342-quote-you-d-never-know-that-listening-to-people-in-the-un-but-tribalism-is-the-father-of-racism-stanley-crouch-44791.jpg
       [img]
  HTML https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9wKFLY8EdHp_lpo3NoXIvi0yqpDYBBGakdQ&usqp=CAU[/img]
       Are you sure you even understand tribalism versus nationalism at
       all?
       #Post#: 14289--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
       By: SirGalahad Date: June 23, 2022, 3:16 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Honestly, at this point, I think it's preferable to prove why
       anti-tribalism and anti-ethnocentrism should be and in fact are
       key tenets of our ideology, than to prove that Hitler himself
       was opposed to ethnocentrism. Some of the reasonings provided on
       the main website for Hitler being opposed to it are convincing,
       but some of them aren't. I think Aryanism should be able to
       stand on its own without Hitler, because even after debunking
       some of the myths conjured by the West against Hitler's regime,
       I think that the National Socialism of that era was too mired in
       ethnocentrism. Regardless of whether Mein Kampf was just a
       publicity stunt or not, it's still the main book that Hitler
       wrote and was explicitly Nordicist, and Alfred Rosenberg's "The
       Myth of the 20th Century" also talked about a Nordic race and
       identified the Aryans with the Indo-Europeans, which is a big
       no-no for us, given what we now know about the Indo-Europeans.
       The Indo-Europeans/Vedics were practically the opposite of
       Aryans. A lot of the people that Hitler surrounded himself with
       were ethnocentrists in general. That's not to say that Hitler
       wasn't different from the white tribalists of his time, because
       he most certainly was. He was clearly a different breed from the
       likes of Winston Churchill and others of the past who supported
       western colonialism and racism. But I think there are a few key
       issues that can't go ignored.
       My biggest issue with the narrative of "Hitler was just trying
       to appeal to the masses, who were mostly racist at the time" is
       this: How were the communists able to promote an
       anti-ethnocentric worldview in predominantly white countries at
       the same exact time as the National Socialists then? If they
       could do it, then logically, nothing precluded Hitler from
       promoting an anti-ethnocentric racial theory within Germany if
       he so desired. But he didn't, so Occam's Razor says that it's
       most likely that he just didn't know enough about racial theory
       to form the same conclusions that we have, and ended up falling
       into the trappings of ethnocentrism because of that
       informational gap, or perhaps just straight up due to bias
       #Post#: 14290--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
       By: guest78 Date: June 23, 2022, 5:41 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=SirGalahad link=topic=1384.msg14289#msg14289
       date=1656015373]
       Honestly, at this point, I think it's preferable to prove why
       anti-tribalism and anti-ethnocentrism should be and in fact are
       key tenets of our ideology, than to prove that Hitler himself
       was opposed to ethnocentrism. Some of the reasonings provided on
       the main website for Hitler being opposed to it are convincing,
       but some of them aren't. I think Aryanism should be able to
       stand on its own without Hitler, because even after debunking
       some of the myths conjured by the West against Hitler's regime,
       I think that the National Socialism of that era was too mired in
       ethnocentrism. Regardless of whether Mein Kampf was just a
       publicity stunt or not, it's still the main book that Hitler
       wrote and was explicitly Nordicist, and Alfred Rosenberg's "The
       Myth of the 20th Century" also talked about a Nordic race and
       identified the Aryans with the Indo-Europeans, which is a big
       no-no for us, given what we now know about the Indo-Europeans.
       The Indo-Europeans/Vedics were practically the opposite of
       Aryans. A lot of the people that Hitler surrounded himself with
       were ethnocentrists in general. That's not to say that Hitler
       wasn't different from the white tribalists of his time, because
       he most certainly was. He was clearly a different breed from the
       likes of Winston Churchill and others of the past who supported
       western colonialism and racism. But I think there are a few key
       issues that can't go ignored.
       My biggest issue with the narrative of "Hitler was just trying
       to appeal to the masses, who were mostly racist at the time" is
       this: How were the communists able to promote an
       anti-ethnocentric worldview in predominantly white countries at
       the same exact time as the National Socialists then? If they
       could do it, then logically, nothing precluded Hitler from
       promoting an anti-ethnocentric racial theory within Germany if
       he so desired. But he didn't, so Occam's Razor says that it's
       most likely that he just didn't know enough about racial theory
       to form the same conclusions that we have, and ended up falling
       into the trappings of ethnocentrism because of that
       informational gap, or perhaps just straight up due to
       bias[/quote]
       Great points! It would have been interesting to see where Hitler
       took his National Socialism had he not had to fight the Soviets
       and Bolshevism. Hitler and Goebbels made some excellent points
       though in the 12 years National Socialism existed, they
       certainly laid a solid foundation for an ideology to be built
       upon.
       #Post#: 14293--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: June 23, 2022, 9:10 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "How were the communists able to promote an anti-ethnocentric
       worldview in predominantly white countries at the same exact
       time as the National Socialists then? If they could do it, then
       logically, nothing precluded Hitler from promoting an
       anti-ethnocentric racial theory within Germany if he so
       desired."
       I have highlighted your bait-and-switch in bold. Communists
       promoted blank slate theory as their anti-ethnocentric
       worldview. But National Socialism rejects blank slate theory on
       principle. As you say, National Socialism in order to be true to
       its principles would have to promote an anti-ethnocentric racial
       theory. This, however, is much harder than promoting blank slate
       theory. Therefore the fact that communists successfully promoted
       blank slate theory at best implies that Hitler could also have
       similarly successfully promoted blank slate theory, but does not
       imply that Hitler could have similarly successfully promoted an
       anti-ethnocentric racial theory.
       "Occam's Razor says that it's most likely that he just didn't
       know enough about racial theory to form the same conclusions
       that we have, and ended up falling into the trappings of
       ethnocentrism because of that informational gap, or perhaps just
       straight up due to bias"
       I agree that Hitler probably had less information than we have
       about race, but it remains my belief that he knew (even if on
       intuition alone) that Rosenberg had screwed up badly, which is
       why:
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_the_Twentieth_Century#Influence_of_the_book
       [quote]Adolf Hitler declared that it was not to be considered
       official ideology of the Nazi Party:
       I must insist that Rosenberg's "The Myth of the Twentieth
       Century" is not to be regarded as an expression of the official
       doctrine of the party. The moment the book appeared, I
       deliberately refrained from recognizing it as any such thing. In
       the first place, its title gives a completely false
       impression... a National Socialist should affirm that to the
       myth of the nineteenth century he opposes the faith and science
       of our times... I have myself merely glanced cursorily at it.[7]
       According to journalist Konrad Heiden, Rosenberg had given the
       manuscript to Hitler to vet before its publication. After a year
       Hitler still had nothing to say. Hitler gave the still-unread
       work back to him saying, "I feel sure that it's all
       right."[11][/quote]
       As for Mein Kampf:
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Anti-Slavism_and_Lebensraum_(%22living_space%22)
       [quote]Hitler described that when he was in Vienna it was
       repugnant for him to see the mixture of races “of Czechs, Poles,
       Hungarians, Ruthenians (Ukrainians), Serbs and Croats, and
       always that infection which dissolves human society, the Jew,
       were all here and there and everywhere.”[20][/quote]
       this is a consistent anti-Turanist attitude (almost identical to
       what I promote here, by the way). To portray Hitler as an
       ethnocentrist, your only remaining option is to argue that
       Hitler was a narrow Germanic ethnocentrist who considered even
       speakers of other branches of PIE-derived languages too
       ancestrally distant from speakers of Germanic languages. But
       then:
       [quote]He also wrote that he viewed the Japanese victory over
       the Russians in the Russo-Japanese War in 1904 as a “blow to
       Austrian Slavism”.[21][/quote]
       That he was happy about this makes it impossible for his
       worldview to be based in any kind of ethnocentrism (unless you
       want to argue that he believed that Germans and Japanese had
       common ancestors not shared by Russians).
       "I think Aryanism should be able to stand on its own without
       Hitler"
       I am confident that it already does. But that doesn't mean we
       should try to distance ourselves from Hitler either. The reason
       why most present-day leftists are misguided is because they
       still believe Hitler was the bad guy in WWII. Without clearing
       this up, all leftist rhetoric will continue to sound confused
       (e.g. comparing Israel to "Nazis"). If we were to stay silent on
       Hitler, eventually we will get (possibly well-meaning) leftists
       joining us who start to use similar rhetoric, which will surely
       corrupt our movement. It is to scare away such leftists from
       joining that we make such a big show of holding up Hitler as one
       of our heroes.
       #Post#: 14298--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
       By: guest78 Date: June 23, 2022, 10:54 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]How were the communists able to promote an
       anti-ethnocentric worldview in predominantly white countries at
       the same exact time as the National Socialists then?[/quote]
       The fact that anyone could bring themselves to say such a thing
       considering proven Russian "whiteness" present day, Russia's
       colonial past, and the Jewishness of Marx himself, boggles the
       mind!
       [img]
  HTML https://external-preview.redd.it/Hs5LF-ubSpYlJ1aZ4aBw0-BowezmqJG9AYJld5R-QHg.jpg?auto=webp&s=56685c98850b7caa36e21766cc4d08b190647ce2[/img]
       [quote]"Cuckservative" is a pejorative[1] formed as a
       portmanteau of "cuck", an abbreviation of the word "cuckold",
       and the political designation "conservative".[2] It has become a
       label used by white nationalists and the alt-right in the United
       States.[3][4][5][6] The word "cuckservative" reached a high
       level of mainstream political conversation around mid-July 2015,
       where it gained media attention just a few weeks before the
       start of the first Republican primary debate for the 2016 United
       States presidential election.[4][7]
       The term, as well as the shortened form "cuck" for cuckold,
       originated on websites such as 4chan (specifically the /pol/
       imageboard) and 8chan, the right-wing message board My Posting
       Career,[1][3] the blog The Right Stuff,[8] and other sites
       associated with the alt-right.[3][9][10] [/quote]
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckservative
       You can lead a conservative and communist to water, but you
       cannot stop them from shitting in it!
       [quote]The slaughter of the firstborn reveals that clearly
       enough. Just as they have done with us, the Jews had won the
       great lower stratum of the population for themselves --
       'Liberty, Equality, Fraternity!' -- until one night they sent
       out the order, 'Down with the bourgeois! Kill them, the dogs!'
       but things didn't turn out so well as they had expected.[/quote]
  HTML http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/Bolshevism_From_Moses_to_Lenin.pdf
       Illiterates!
       See also:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/mythical-world/turanian-diffusion/?message=14246<br
       />
       #Post#: 14311--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
       By: christianbethel Date: June 24, 2022, 12:02 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]...Chamberlain nowhere gives a specific morphological
       identity to his "German," although he does wax enthusiastic over
       the tall, blond dolichocephal (long head). On the other hand he
       suggests, perhaps taking his cue from Gobineau, who was
       convinced of the heterogeneity of the Aryan type, that some of
       the purest "Germans" are brunets, even raven-haired. Nor does
       Chamberlain deny creativity nor value to other races. So there
       is evidence that the National Socialist theory of race at this
       time was more than somewhat vague and indeterminate, at least
       with respect to the problem of how one identified one's select
       race. Nowhere in the early literature of the Movement does the
       designation "Nordic" figure with any prominence, least of all in
       Hitler's public statements. Even at the close of this first
       period, in 1930, when Rosenberg's Mythos appeared, his use of
       the word "Nordic" was strictly qualified by this pronouncement:
       "…nothing would be more superficial than to measure a man's
       worth by his physical appearance (with a centimeter rule and
       cephalic indices). A far more accurate measure of worth is
       conduct."[/quote] (A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race,
       1958)
       [quote]By 1938 Ludwig Ferdinand Clauss mocked the entire
       procedure of assigning certain mental traits ("ability to make
       judgments," "love of truth," etc.) to specific races as
       distinguishing characteristics. "It is true", he said, "that
       Nordic men are capable of making judgments. No one denies that.
       No one denies, for that matter, that Nordic men occasionally
       eat, drink and sleep - it only seems doubtful that these
       characteristics would distinguish them from men of other races."
       [/quote] (A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
       [quote]...Similarly, if all creativity derives from Nordic blood
       why have the most prominent men in European history been of
       manifestly mixed racial origin? "Many of the men," Fischer, Baur
       and Lenz contended, "who are universally regarded as the
       greatest in history (for instance, Socrates, Michelangelo,
       Luther, Goethe and Beethoven) were obviously of mixed race.
       Speaking generally, it is exceptional to find that distinguished
       men exhibit a pure racial type." And, of course, as a corollary
       to that even sincere friends were driven to ask of these
       enthusiastic adherents of Nordicism: why did the Nordic Race,
       where it had been preserved from the admixture of lower
       potential, in Scandinavia and Northern Europe in general, have
       to wait until it was stimulated by bastard peoples from the
       Mediterranean before it developed any advanced culture of its
       own?[/quote] (A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race,
       1958)
       [quote]...For in a genetically mixed population there is no
       simple correlation between physical appearance and potentiality
       so that an individual possessed of the racial livery of the
       Nordic must also have a Nordic soul. Characteristics are
       transmitted through a particular chromosomal substance, the
       gene. In a mixed population each individual inherits a total of
       anywhere from 10,000 to 45,000 genes. With a random mixture,
       conducted over at least the last three thousand years (i.e., the
       presence of mixed types in the earliest "Nordic" graves87 ) the
       number of gene combinations would be infinite - meaning that the
       correlation coefficient between physical and psychic
       characteristics could, mathematically, be expected to be nil.
       More precisely one could not say with any assurance that an
       individual displaying all the physical traits of the Nordic race
       was equally possessed with (presuming there to be any) Nordic
       mental characteristics. The chances that an individual in
       contemporary Europe should have inherited from an astronomical
       number of ancestors only Nordic traits are millions to
       one.[/quote] (A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race,
       1958)
       [quote]Günther was to be specifically rejected. While
       recognizing the fact that his books had served to stimulate
       inquiry into the intricate problems of race, the pernicious
       aspects of the "Nordic hypothesis" were decried. The enthusiasm
       with which Günther's ideas had been accepted, Weinert wrote,
       precipitated conclusions for which "there was no biological
       foundation… The consequence was often that an unfounded
       race-pride threatened to sunder the German people."[/quote] (A.
       James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
       [quote]The first clear statement on official reorientation had
       come from Hitler himself only seven months after he came to
       power, at the 1933 Nuremberg Parteitag. Hitler said: "We do not
       conclude from a man's physical type his ability, but rather from
       his achievements his race."[/quote] (A. James Gregor, National
       Socialism and Race, 1958)
       [quote]Thieme repeats Hitler's principle and adds "the men who
       bear the qualities of heroism, strength of will, a readiness to
       sacrifice and faith have played a decisive role in deciding
       Germany's destiny, and they shall continue to do so even if they
       are not all tall, blond or blue-eyed."[/quote] (A. James Gregor,
       National Socialism and Race, 1958)
       [quote]Eichenauer goes so far as to inform his readers that the
       amount of Nordic blood an individual possesses means nothing
       (spielt keine Rolle) in the Nordic scheme of things because "it
       has often enough been the case that men of extremely mixed race
       (stark gemischter Rasse) have conceived and more powerfully
       grasped these notions than the predominantly Nordic."[/quote]
       (A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
       [quote]In mid-1936 the Nationalsocialistische Korrespondenz
       stated with clarity and authority: "From his deeds one can
       recognize the Nordic man - not from the length of his nose and
       the colour of his eyes." In effect this last phase of National
       Socialist race theory was a complete rejection of Günther's
       Nordicism.[/quote] (A. James Gregor, National Socialism and
       Race, 1958)
       [quote]...We are told that "the races distinguish themselves not
       through their characteristics; for the same characteristics can
       be found in different races…For example a Mediterranean can be
       as courageous as a Nordic, an Alpine as musical as a Dinaric, an
       East Balt as cunning as a Nordic. On the other hand not all
       Mediterraneans are courageous, nor all Nordics. But when a
       Mediterranean is courageous he is courageous in a 'Mediterranean
       fashion' as a Nordic would be courageous in a 'Nordic
       fashion'."[/quote] (A. James Gregor, National Socialism and
       Race, 1958)
       [quote]Here is an entirely different racism, an entirely
       different Nordicism than that of Günther and his followers. Here
       there was no question of general inferiority - it was a question
       of maintaining an ideal as an archetype for an entire
       civilization. Germany had a Nordic archetype; its art form was
       Nordic; its literature and philosophy, its music and
       institutions were inspired by Nordic ideals. Each German was
       bequeathed this patrimony from the original racial elements, now
       inextricably mixed into the German Nation, among which the
       Nordic predominated. It was not a question of intrinsic worth,
       national and racial superiority and inferiority tearing asunder
       the peoples of Europe. There is no transcendental standard by
       which to evaluate racial differences. A people
       characteristically Mongolian treasures a Mongolian heritage and
       ideal, a Mediterranean people a Mediterranean one.[/quote] (A.
       James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
       [quote]Dr. Walter Gross, head of the Rassenpolitische Amt of the
       National Socialist Party, said: "We appreciate the fact that
       those of another race are different from us… Whether that other
       race is 'better' or 'worse' is not possible for us to judge. For
       this would demand that we transcend our own racial limitations
       for the duration of the verdict and take on a superhuman, even
       divine, attitude from which alone an 'impersonal' verdict could
       be formed on the value or lack of such of the many living forms
       of inexhaustible Nature." Less than a year later, in 1939, he
       defined the official position of mature National Socialist race
       theory: "A serious situation arose through the fact that other
       people and States, because of German race laws… felt themselves
       attacked and defamed … For example the whole world of the Far
       East remained for a long time under the impression that the
       Germans… had designated them as non-Aryan, and as non-Aryans
       inferior rabble - (that the) Germans had designated (them)
       unworthy, second class humanity and that the Germans imagined
       themselves as the sole bearers of culture… What could we say to
       those who saw in German racism a fundamental defamation of men
       of other races? We could do nothing other than, with patience
       and conviction, repeat that German racism does not evaluate or
       deprecate other racial groups… It only recognizes,
       scientifically, that differences exist… We have often been
       disturbed by the indiscretion or even stupidity in our own land
       when, just after we had carefully made clear to some people or
       other that we respected and honoured… their racial qualities,
       some wild fool manufactured his own ideas about race and
       declared that these same people were racially inferior and stood
       somewhere below the cow or the ass, and that their
       characteristics were degrading or impure and lord knows what
       else! But such idiotic assertions were repelled and offended not
       only alien peoples in distant parts of the world but even our
       own neighbours in Europe, many times even friends of National
       Socialist Germany bound to us historically and in destiny."
       [/quote] (A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
       [quote]...Finally, late in the war, even under the gathering
       shadows of defeat, the Headquarters of the Reichsfuehrer SS
       published the work of Dr. Ludwig Eckstein. He carefully
       dissected the remains of the Nordicism purchased over a decade
       before at so high a cost, and concluded: "While supporting our
       own race, and if necessary fighting against other races to
       protect its right to existence, we should not overlook the fact
       that almost all races display something in themselves that is
       sound and biologically resolved and therefore beautiful, natural
       and valuable… Each race carries first of all the measure of
       worth in itself. When once we understand this then we do not
       foster feelings of inferiority in others, a consequence that the
       hitherto existing race theories have too often achieved…"
       [/quote] (A. James Gregor, National Socialism and Race, 1958)
       [quote]In Italy the same tendencies revealed themselves in the
       Fascist Race Manifesto of 1938, and in the work of Maggiore and
       Franzi. Everywhere the talk was no longer of fixed and immutable
       races, but of races in formation, the components for which arise
       out of the crucible of the past - races in formation cast over
       by the ideal of a living heritage - for Germany a Nordic Mythos,
       for Italy an animating devotion of Romanita. The talk is of
       races yet to be fashioned by living an ideal, united by a common
       destiny, nurtured in a common environment, the political
       expression of which is Nationhood. Here are the germs of a
       worldview which makes of man a creator, a builder of future
       races; a philosophy which unites history, politics and race,
       eugenics and humanism, pride in self and respect for others, a
       philosophy scientifically sound and emotionally
       satisfying.[/quote] (A. James Gregor, National Socialism and
       Race, 1958)
       #Post#: 14328--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
       By: SirGalahad Date: June 24, 2022, 10:45 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       @90sRetroFan
       "Communists promoted blank slate theory as their
       anti-ethnocentric worldview. But National Socialism rejects
       blank slate theory on principle. As you say, National Socialism
       in order to be true to its principles would have to promote an
       anti-ethnocentric racial theory. This, however, is much harder
       than promoting blank slate theory. Therefore the fact that
       communists successfully promoted blank slate theory at best
       implies that Hitler could also have similarly successfully
       promoted blank slate theory, but does not imply that Hitler
       could have similarly successfully promoted an anti-ethnocentric
       racial theory."
       I agree that anti-ethnocentric race theory would be more
       difficult to promote than blank slate theory, but the real
       question is whether it would have made Hitler's mission that
       much harder. He was already struggling in a war where everyone
       was attacking him on all sides, so he really had nothing to lose
       by openly promoting something more similar to what we promote
       now. And the world honestly would have been better for it,
       because it would have been impossible to slander National
       Socialism with 99% of the accusations currently levied against
       it. Imagine how easy our job would be if it had always been
       obvious from the beginning that National Socialism was
       anti-racist. Historical baggage is the #1 reason why our ranks
       aren't growing nearly as fast as we wish they would. The issue
       is that while you could theoretically make a case that Hitler
       was anti-racist and believed in a theory that was in conflict
       with ethnocentrism, as has been done on the main site, there
       just isn't enough definitive evidence to definitively prove the
       case. To make our case of Hitler's true beliefs and character
       relies on too many assumptions, which is only natural since I'm
       sure we can both at least agree that Hitler never stated
       outright what his true beliefs were, if he even had any hidden
       true beliefs, and if they were even comparable to our views
       "this is a consistent anti-Turanist attitude (almost identical
       to what I promote here, by the way). To portray Hitler as an
       ethnocentrist, your only remaining option is to argue that
       Hitler was a narrow Germanic ethnocentrist who considered even
       speakers of other branches of PIE-derived languages too
       ancestrally distant from speakers of Germanic languages."
       That would potentially be my assumption, if Hitler could be
       described as an ethnocentrist. Although I'm sure plenty of white
       nationalists would argue that Hitler was simply slandering
       Eastern Europeans for propagandistic purposes, since they were
       warring against him
       "That he was happy about this makes it impossible for his
       worldview to be based in any kind of ethnocentrism (unless you
       want to argue that he believed that Germans and Japanese had
       common ancestors not shared by Russians)."
       The "honorary Aryan" thing isn't too convincing for
       self-described leftists, because it could easily be met with the
       argument of "Well the people described as honorary Aryans were
       the ones that were valuable to his war effort in some way." And
       on the surface, that's a fair assessment to make if you truly
       believe that Hitler was racist. Also, the apartheid regime of
       Azania had a similar title of "honorary white" that was applied
       to the Japanese, Chinese, and the Koreans. So it especially
       wouldn't be all that convincing for "black" people and
       white-passing leftists in Azania, or for people who are aware of
       the former use of this term in apartheid Azania in general
       By the way, if you're using the phrase "bait-and-switch" with
       it's negative association, I would never do such a thing. I
       respect you far too much, both as a person and as the defacto
       head of the ideology in its current iteration
       #Post#: 14329--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: June 25, 2022, 1:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "he really had nothing to lose by openly promoting something
       more similar to what we promote now."
       By doing that he would have risked Himmler rallying the
       Nordicists and overthrowing him, and I am sure he sensed this.
       If he had managed to replace Himmler with Heydrich as the leader
       of the SS, then it might have been safe enough for him to do
       what you suggest. But with Heydrich assassinated in 1942, that
       was dead in the water. From there Hitler's only hope was to win
       WWII first. We all know how that turned out.
       It was in the 1945 "Political Testament of Adolf Hitler" (when
       Hitler knew he had lost WWII, and hence truly had nothing more
       to lose) that he came out with the clearest anti-ethnocentric
       statements, such as:
       "I am sure that the Japanese, the Chinese and the peoples of
       Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France."
       and
       "I feel much more sympathetically inclined to the lowliest Hindu
       than to any of these arrogant [British] islanders."
       Why would he have bothered with such statements (shortly before
       suicide FFS) if he was not a committed anti-ethnocentrist at
       heart?
       "there just isn't enough definitive evidence to definitively
       prove the case."
       I know, and whereas False Leftists will choose to believe in
       racist Hitler, True Leftists will choose to believe in
       anti-racist Hitler. Just like how Judeo-Christians believe in
       Yahwist Jesus while Gnostic Christians believe in anti-Yahwist
       Jesus. It is always like this.
       "it could easily be met with the argument of "Well the people
       described as honorary Aryans were the ones that were valuable to
       his war effort in some way.""
       Then how do they explain the quotes above, made after he knew
       WWII was already lost?
       "Also, the apartheid regime of Azania had a similar title of
       "honorary white" that was applied to the Japanese, Chinese, and
       the Koreans."
       But there were no "Europeans" who were excluded from "whiteness"
       under Apartheid. Therefore Apartheid could still be argued as
       ethnocentric (Arctic Alliance style), since it is in fact the
       case that Japanese are ancestrally more closely related to Dutch
       than Xhosa are closely related to Dutch.
       Hitler, in contrast, included Japanese while excluding Russians,
       despite it being obvious that Russians are ancestrally much
       closer to Germans than Japanese are close to Germans. Do you not
       see the structural difference?
       #Post#: 14337--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Hitler: The Face of Anti-Tribalism
       By: christianbethel Date: June 26, 2022, 12:05 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]...Hitler disapproved of such [racial] comparisons. He
       especially opposed reference to physical contrasts of stature,
       coloring, or physiognomy among German ethnic groups. In 1930 he
       told an aid, “Discussions about the race problem will only
       divide the German people further, incite them against one
       another, atomize them, and in this way make them inconsequential
       with respect to foreign affairs.” He admonished senior officials
       of the party to avoid the subject of ethnic diversity in
       speeches and articles: “Everything that unifies and welds the
       classes together must be brought forth, what divides them, what
       re-animates old prejudices, must be avoided. . . .They are the
       surest way to destroy a community.” He remarked that people
       should be selected for leadership roles “not according to
       outward appearance, but by demonstrating inward ability."
       Goebbels, himself a diminutive man with a slight limp, recorded
       in his diary in October 1937, “Discussed race policy with Dr.
       Gross. I reproached him for our flawed standards for making
       selections. According to them, practically every officer today
       would be dismissed."
       [/quote] (2013. Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1,
       'Racial Hygiene' section)
       [quote]Hitler believed that the more capable and fit among the
       Germans should not set themselves above other groups to preserve
       or advance their particular bloodline. It was their duty to help
       elevate the German nation as an entity. As summarized by his
       chronicler Dr. Henry Picker, Hitler was “firmly resolved to
       transfer racially excellent military units, such as formations
       of the Waffen SS, to every region where the indigenous people
       are substandard. They will provide for the population by
       replenishing its bloodlines." (The Waffen SS was an elite branch
       of the German military requiring high physical standards for
       enrollment.)
       [/quote] (2013. Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1,
       'Racial Hygiene' section)
       [quote]Though believing in the inequality of mankind, Hitler
       opposed clique-forming or elitist attitudes among his
       countrymen’s more gifted persons or ethnic groups. He measured
       people not by what nature gave them, but by how they contributed
       their talents, be they lofty or modest, to advance the national
       community. This was a standard every German could aspire to,
       regardless of his or her station in society. Personal attitude
       and endeavor, not the circumstances of birth, determine the
       superior being. In a speech as chancellor of Germany, Hitler
       described the evolution of his country into a social, national,
       and spiritual entity: “The German people came into being no
       differently than almost every truly creative civilized nation we
       know of in the world. A numerically small, talented race,
       capable of organizing and creating civilization, established
       itself over other peoples in the course of many centuries. It in
       part absorbed them, in part adapted to them. All members of our
       people have of course contributed their special talents to this
       union. It was, however, created by a nation-and-state forming
       elite alone. This race imposed its language, naturally not
       without borrowing from those it subjugated. And all shared a
       common fate for so long, that the life of the people directing
       the affairs of state became inseparably bound to the life of the
       gradually assimilating other members. All the while, conqueror
       and conquered had long become a community. This is our German
       people of today. . . . Our only wish is that all members
       contribute their best to the prosperity of our national life. As
       long as every element gives what it has to give, this element in
       so doing will help benefit all our lives."[/quote] (2013.
       Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1, 'Racial Hygiene'
       section)
       [quote]Hitler promoted whatever contributed to this goal
       [unification] and rejected what did not. A literate man with a
       profound grasp of history, he fashioned a political philosophy
       that interpreted Germany’s past as a continuous, progressive
       struggle for independence and unification. Disharmony among the
       Germans had cost them freedom and life. The Roman Empire had
       imposed an immoral foreign influence until the Cheruskan
       Arminius unified prominent German tribes to force the invaders
       out.
       [/quote] (2013. Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1, 'The
       Nation as One' section)
       [quote]Hitler grew up in the social milieu that [s]Nietzsche[/s]
       criticized for its class distinctions. World War I, during which
       Hitler saw combat in an infantry regiment, welded various social
       factions into an entity. “At the front, the feeling of being
       destined to belong together, the feeling of a community, was by
       and large reborn,” Gross wrote in Der Schulungsbrief. Hitler and
       his comrades felt solidarity in the trenches but found it
       undermined by political discord at home. “The enemy no longer
       faced the frontline soldier just as an honorable fighting man,
       but also made trouble behind the front,” a journal for the
       German armed forces related. During the post-war period, the
       country suffered economic distress, political disharmony and
       foreign exploitation. Hitler later declared that when the German
       people “form a unified bloc, they are a power. When they are
       divided, they are defenseless and impotent."[/quote] (2013.
       Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1, 'The Nation as One'
       section)
       [quote]By emphasizing German unity, National Socialism followed
       in the footsteps of the Romans' nemesis Arminius, the Prussian
       reformers who rose against Napoleon, the statesman Bismarck, and
       the eminent [s]Nietzsche.[/s]The matter of Germany’s moral,
       social, and political harmony influenced the NSDAP’s stand on
       virtually every major issue. [In] National Socialism, the
       journal Der SA. Führer (The SA Officer) wrote, recognized that
       “the labor question was the cardinal social problem of the 19th
       and 20th Centuries. ... It confronted liberalism’s
       materialistic, distorted idea of freedom, which leads to abuse
       and to the rule of a capitalist minority, with a new freedom;
       one based on the growth of the individual fellow citizen within
       the national community according to achievement. Unlike the
       disfranchisement of labor through liberalism, National Socialism
       incorporates the worker into German society, elevating him and
       his accomplishments onto par with the rest of the
       nation."[/quote] (2013. Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch.
       1, 'The Nation as One' section)
       [quote]Judging someone’s worth according to performance, as far
       as Hitler was concerned, superseded questions of ethnic standing
       within the German community. Though many National Socialists
       based their world view on scientific research on race, the
       government under Hitler also relied on education to realize
       human potential. Goebbels wrote in his diary in June 1936,
       [b]“the Führer sharply disapproves of the work of all the race
       committees." Hitler based his attitude on the potential negative
       impact such activities could exercise on national unity.[/quote]
       (2013. Richard Tedor, Hitler's Revolution, Ch. 1, 'The Nation as
       One' section)
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