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       #Post#: 14219--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Debate with the Liberals
       By: guest30 Date: June 20, 2022, 6:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       @90sRetroFan
       Then, many of them will emigrate to your country, and they full
       of libtards and the Eurocentrist right whom you hate.
       #Post#: 14222--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Debate with the Liberals
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: June 20, 2022, 8:01 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The most suitable destinations for them are Portugal,
       Netherlands, France and Britain (as well as former British
       Empire countries, especially Australia). Recall:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/debate-with-the-liberals/msg13930/#msg13930
       #Post#: 14279--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Debate with the Liberals
       By: guest30 Date: June 23, 2022, 5:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       @90sRetroFan
       United States's leftist are very liberal by mindset. What
       solution which you working on to educate them? They strongly
       reject the truth with reason that everyone have their own truth,
       how illogical the reasons are. They preserving pluralism. Not
       preserving good individual ideas for oppressed people, or
       individualism.
       #Post#: 14281--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Debate with the Liberals
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: June 23, 2022, 5:45 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "United States's leftist are very liberal by mindset."
       Not any more.
       "They strongly reject the truth with reason that everyone have
       their own truth"
       Do they support Trump having his own truth that he won the 2020
       election? Do they support "white" supremacists having their own
       truth that "whites" are superior? Do they support
       homophobes/transphobes having their own truth that LGBT is
       mental illness?
       "What solution which you working on to educate them?"
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/index.php
       #Post#: 14296--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Debate with the Liberals
       By: guest30 Date: June 23, 2022, 10:17 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       @90sRetroFan
       [quote]Do they support Trump having his own truth that he won
       the 2020 election? Do they support "white" supremacists having
       their own truth that "whites" are superior? Do they support
       homophobes/transphobes having their own truth that LGBT is
       mental illness?[/quote]
       They support it, they not doing anything when Trump win
       election, they not doing anything when "White" Supremacist
       spread their ideas. They just pretend like they will not
       influence the majority of Americans. If they are doing
       absolutism, there will be a mass purge and report to the white
       nationalist places and headquarters. But of course, tolerance is
       their main ideas, so they will care about peace rather than
       idealism. It means keep the rightist not make a riot across
       United States because of their political movement, for the sake
       peaceful living This is why the nations in "Africa" continent,
       North Korea, Syria, and majority of Nusantara people begin to
       align themselves with Russia rather than the West (Include US).
       I'm not joking, this is the reality. That is the problem, See
       this information :
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou2U5jXyLCk
       [quote](Shown on April 8, 2022)
       “African leaders, opposition figures and social influencers are
       increasing their support for the Kremlin. Even as Russia's image
       elsewhere is being torn apart by the war in Ukraine. Some of the
       most vocal defenders of Russian President Vladimir Putin are
       pan-African. the anti-imperialist doctrine of African unity that
       developed at the height of the cold war.
       "Putin wants to get his country back," "He has no blood of
       slavery and colonialism on his hands," - Kemi Seba Pan Africa
       France Benin, March 2022
       In Uganda the strong son of veteran leader lieutenant general
       Muhoozi Kainerugaba is another strong Putin supporter, tweeting
       in late February that he revealed that the non-white majority of
       humanity supports Russia's stance in Ukraine.
       On the other hand, on March 2nd, members of the UN general
       assembly voted overwhelmingly to condemn the invasion of
       Ukraine. However, of the 30 countries that abstained, nearly
       half of the 16 countries were in Africa. In addition, it was
       Eritrea that voted against the resolution, while eight other
       African countries did not cast their votes.
       According to Muhammad Tawar, a researcher at the University of
       Malmo in Sweden, most abstaining countries are authoritarian
       regimes or countries with historical ties to Russia, often
       militarily dating back to the Soviet era.
       "The majority of (non-white) humans supported Russia in the
       Ukraine war. Putin was right! When Soviet Russia placed nuclear
       missiles on Cuba in 1962, the West was ready to make the world
       explode over it. Now, when NATO does the same, they expect
       Russia is doing something different?" - Muhoozi
       Kainerugaba[/quote]
       [img width=960
       height=1280]
  HTML https://64.media.tumblr.com/09118339840cdd54795e6c1a1afddbde/9985c8b5605d1a45-6c/s2048x3072/54038a874eee28e9cd61f8dea3dd9fe4ab388a3b.jpg[/img]
       Seen on YouTube, many of Nusantarans support Russia
       [img width=960
       height=1280]
  HTML https://64.media.tumblr.com/209b82c21f7943107e94c4ed1f95c8df/be7f870360c82911-db/s2048x3072/b40d6968c82abfe10930cd518017a638c44996ac.jpg[/img]
       [img width=960
       height=1280]
  HTML https://64.media.tumblr.com/0c751238d36611533021ea6c2e49a2b4/c0af48e87d12c664-a2/s2048x3072/022e0fcbcff26787d906b50a3449a13303b93d8e.jpg[/img]
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXOFHvDHVm8
       [quote](Shown on 4 March 2022)
       "North Korea Supports Russia, 141 Countries Against"[/quote]
       [quote]
  HTML https://www.ssatripura.com/countries-supporting-ukraine-russia/
       Indirectly, a few countries are in support of the Russian
       Invasion or acting not to be in favour or against any country
       i.e. Russia or Ukraine. These countries are:
       Syria has expressed its support for Moscow’s recognization of
       the republics in eastern Ukraine.
       Iran has justified Russian Invasion Moves by saying it is rooted
       in NATO Provocations.
       UAE and Saudi Arabia have refused to condemn Russian actions.
       They are acting as being neutral.
       Kazakhstan has stayed away from public analysis however not
       favored Russia and chose not to send troops for a joint military
       activity.
       Armenia has cast a vote against removing Russia from the Council
       of Europe however has kept a low profile on the
       invasion.[/quote]
       #Post#: 14299--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Debate with the Liberals
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: June 24, 2022, 12:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "They support it, they not doing anything when Trump win
       election"
       They are calling it the Big Lie. They are not saying "everyone
       has their own truth" as you claimed.
       "many of Nusantarans support Russia"
       If they support Russia, they cannot be called Nusantarans.
       In any case, I suspect it is mainly due to shared homophobia.
       Portraying Russia as the champion of homophobia and America as
       the champion of LGBT is part of Dugin's strategy to win over
       homophobes all over the world:
  HTML https://bostonreview.net/articles/putins-anti-gay-war-on-ukraine/
       [quote]The reality is that the Kremlin has constructed a
       pernicious ideology of homophobia as geopolitics
       ...
       In numerous speeches, Putin has positioned Russia as an
       international leader in the defense of “traditional values.” In
       this way, gender conservatism contributes to carving out a
       meaningful geopolitical role for Russia in a world order where
       LGBT rights have become international politics
       ...
       The Kremlin and other actors actively promote this narrative
       beyond Russia’s borders. The rhetoric of “traditional values”
       and its concomitant geopolitical worldview are circulated in
       Kremlin-loyal Russian media and consumed by many
       Russian-speakers in nearby countries. As historian Bethany
       Moreton just noted in these pages, in transnational
       organizations promoting “family values” such as the World
       Congress of Families, Russian pro-Putin oligarchs fraternize
       with U.S. evangelicals, ultra-conservative Catholic
       organizations, and parts of the European radical right, seeking
       common strategies to combat “gender ideology”—a catch-all term
       of derision used to describe everything from abortion and sex-ed
       in schools to trans rights and same-sex marriage. In the United
       Nations, meanwhile, Russia has worked together with some states
       in the Islamic world and Sub-Saharan Africa, and more recently,
       nationalist populist regimes such as Poland and Brazil, to roll
       back sexual and reproductive rights.
       ...
       the narrative of Russia standing up for “traditional values”
       against a degenerated West has long-standing roots in Russian
       intellectual history.
       ...
       According to historian Dan Healey, discourses on gender and
       sexuality in Russia have been shaped by a “tripartite geography
       of perversion” where Russia is imagined as an in-between space
       of sexual morality and innocence, neither part of the “decadent”
       West or the “primitive” Orient. Such a moral mapping influenced
       the conservative gender politics of the 1930s Stalin regime,
       when the Communists reintroduced the ban on sodomy (which had
       been lifted after the 1917 revolution) and explicitly depicted
       homosexuality as a security threat in the form of underground,
       pro-Hitler networks of homosexuals—Healey calls the conservative
       turn under Stalin the “birth of modern Russian political
       homophobia.”[/quote]
       #Post#: 14302--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Debate with the Liberals
       By: guest30 Date: June 24, 2022, 12:58 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       @90sRetroFan
       [quote]If they support Russia, they cannot be called
       Nusantarans.
       [/quote]
       Sukarno cannot be called as Nusantarans? He strongly allied with
       Soviet Russia rather than the Chinese Communist. And He ordered
       their government officials to expelled more than 50.000 Chinese
       people on our land because they behave monopolistic on their
       business activities. Many Chinese were brutally harassed by the
       Nusantarans during that time and they leave our land.
       Today Islamic Socialist Organization FPI (Front Persaudaraan
       Islam) also share the same views with Sukarno.
       And, most of our Nusantara heroes have less problem to Russia
       rather than to, Chinese for example. In Bersiap Periode during
       national revolution against Netherlands colonialism, our local
       militia doing mass rape and killings to the Netherlands
       Europeans and the Chinese people. And no one have problem with
       Russia. During 1826s our national hero Pangeran Diponegoro also
       had no problem with Russia, only with the Dutch and the Chinese
       people who most of them worked with them for business. And the
       result is mass genocide of the Chinese people by the Nusantara
       troops.
       [quote]In any case, I suspect it is mainly due to shared
       homophobia. Portraying Russia as the champion of homophobia and
       America as the champion of LGBT is part of Dugin's strategy to
       win over homophobes all over the world: ...[/quote]
       They support Russia not because their gender worldviews. But
       because they shared memory of anti-colonialism during Russia
       become Soviet Socialist. See information below :
       [quote]
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoPf1dgzZMk
       (Shown on March 18, 2022)
       "...The reason why Indonesian netizens are pro-Russian. The
       first is the strong anti-American and anti-Western attitude in
       society. This sentiment has emerged since the United States
       intensified its war on terror, military campaigns to hunt down
       terrorists such as in Iraq and Afghanistan. few netizens
       sympathize with what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan. As a
       result, anyone who opposes the United States or the West will be
       defended. ..."[/quote]
       The problem is, Nusantarans mostly hate Chinese and the West,
       not Russia. They keep being good on Russians, including Russian
       tourist in Bali. It's difficult to give the reason to public why
       Nusantarans must hate Russia. They never oppressed directly or
       indirectly by Russia.
       #Post#: 14303--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Debate with the Liberals
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: June 24, 2022, 2:24 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "The problem is, Nusantarans mostly hate Chinese and the West,
       not Russia."
       Russia is a Western country. Anyone who does not consider Russia
       a Western country does not deserve to be called Nusantaran.
       You should try to teach people to include Russia within their
       mental conception of Western civilization. Use this map:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/issues/social-decolonization/msg9846/#msg9846
       [quote][img width=1280
       height=690]
  HTML https://commons.princeton.edu/mg/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Household_and_Family_Structures.jpg[/img]
       ...
       (The above map also makes clear that Russia (often excluded from
       "the West" by mainstream journalism) is in fact socially
       Western.)[/quote]
       Also show them examples of Russian aesthetics, which are
       unmistakably Western:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg12948/?topicseen#msg12948
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg12083/#msg12083
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg7947/?topicseen#msg7947
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg4414/#msg4414
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg4413/?topicseen#msg4413
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg3941/#msg3941
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg3940/?topicseen#msg3940
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg3911/?topicseen#msg3911
       I am sure you can find many more examples of your own if you
       spend some time.
       "It's difficult to give the reason to public why Nusantarans
       must hate Russia."
       Russia is the only Western colonial empire which still hasn't
       given back its stolen land:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/colonial-era/russia-the-last-colonial-empire/msg13916/#msg13916
       Therefore however much you hate the Netherlands and other
       Western colonial empires, you should hate Russia more.
       #Post#: 14304--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Debate with the Liberals
       By: guest30 Date: June 24, 2022, 3:28 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       @90sRetroFan
       [quote]Russia is the only Western colonial empire which still
       hasn't given back its stolen land:[/quote]
       What about "Midwest" United States and "Canada"? I found
       difficulties to totally condemn Russia until the "North America"
       and "Oceania" got heavy condemnation of their land too. That is
       the real reason... So forgive me if I'm too empathic to the
       redskin people...
       And also... What about this quote from famous man?
       [quote]Stalin: in 1937, he declared: 'I'm not a European, but a
       Russified Georgian-Asiatic.
       Stalin: Russia is an Asiatic country, and I myself am an
       Asiatic.”
       Source :
  HTML https://www.quora.com/Did-Stalin-consider-himself-to-be-West-Asian-or-European[/quote]
       #Post#: 14305--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Debate with the Liberals
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: June 24, 2022, 4:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "I found difficulties to totally condemn Russia until the "North
       America" and "Oceania" got heavy condemnation of their land
       too."
       I have always encouraged your hostility towards Australia, which
       still uses the British colonial flag and recognizes Elizabeth
       Windsor as head of state. Still, at least Australia is a
       separate country from Britain. And the US is totally separate
       from Britain. Most importantly, the US steadily undergoing the
       Great Replacement, so it is strategically stupid to be hostile
       towards the US now. Instead, you should be helping us prepare a
       key seat for the US among the other former victims of Western
       colonialism, which is how the US will surely learn to see itself
       after the Great Replacement is complete.
       In any case, you have not refuted my argument that Russia is
       worse than the Netherlands. Therefore, since you claim to hate
       the Netherlands, you should at least hate Russia more than you
       hate the Netherlands.
       "And also... What about this quote from famous man?"
       "Asiatic" is a Eurocentric term in the first place.
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