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       #Post#: 714--------------------------------------------------
       Truth =/= knowledge
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: August 9, 2020, 4:18 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       OLD CONTENT
       A common mistake is to believe that a civilization that values
       knowledge is the same thing as a civilization that values truth.
       Leftists who hold this mistaken belief often find it difficult
       to perceive the inferiority of Western civilization, since they
       see how Western civiliation has massively increased knowledge in
       the world and hence (wrongly) presume it serves the cause of
       truth. Only by highlighting the difference between truth and
       knowledge can this mistake be satisfactorily eliminated.
       Truth is a qualitative concept. An informative statement is
       either true or false. The lower the % of false statements a
       civilization makes, the more truthful it is. A civilization that
       values truth is opposed to false statements. Under this value
       scheme, X which makes 20/20 true statements would be considered
       superior to Y which makes 30/60 true statements. Furthermore, Z
       which makes 60/60 true statements would be considered no better
       than X at best, and (explanation below) indeed possibly worse.
       Knowledge is a quantitative concept. The larger the number of
       true statements a civilization possesses, the more knowledgeable
       it is. A civilization that values knowledge wants to accumulate
       the number of true statements it possesses. Under this value
       scheme, Y would be considered superior to X, and Z further
       superior to Y.
       Western civilization fundamentally values knowledge, and values
       truth only on account of its utility in maximizing knowledge. It
       therefore considers itself superior to all other civilizations
       based on its demonstrably greater output (usually measuring from
       the Renaissance onwards) of allegedly true statements. The False
       Left has disagreed with this based almost entirely on (sometimes
       reasonable, sometimes contrived) scepticism towards the alleged
       Western output of true statements compared to non-Western
       output, thereby revealing if nothing else that its own value
       scheme remains Western at its core.
       The True Left which genuinely values only truth (and not
       knowledge), in contrast, finds it easy to reject the claim of
       Western superiority, and indeed to confidently assert Western
       inferiority, via rejecting the Western value scheme itself. The
       key is to recognize the following:
       Every statement made has a possibility of being false, therefore
       a civilization that makes more statements in total has greater
       potential to be an untruthful civilization than a civilization
       that makes fewer statements in total.
       Thus a civilization that makes more statements than are
       necessary tends to be inferior. Rational statements can at least
       be logically proven to be true, and therefore are theoretically
       non-dangerous to truth (though in practice erroneous proofs may
       be accepted until the error is spotted). Empirical statements,
       on the other hand, cannot be proven to be true, thus
       structurally endanger truth just by existing (especially when
       they are assumed to be true). Moreover, in many subject areas,
       each additional statement made - even if itself true - enables
       derivative statements (which may or may not be true) to
       subsequently be made, thereby further increasing the potential
       for falsehood to slip in somewhere down the line. Overall, the
       cause of truth is best served by making no more statements than
       are necessary. Western civilization, of course, attempts to make
       as many statements (albeit, to be fair, statements which it
       would prefer to be true) as it can, in as wide a variety of
       subject areas as it can come up with. Thus Western civilization
       should be considered the most inferior civilization in the world
       by all who value truth. (Indeed it is trivially obvious by
       inspection that the complex society created by Western
       civilization offers vastly greater possibilities for deception
       in every aspect of life.)
       So how much knowledge can be considered necessary for a
       civilization? We would answer: no more than is required for the
       correct functioning of the various practical aspects of the
       lifestyle of that civilization. The simpler its lifestyle,
       generally the less knowledge a civilization can afford to be
       dependent on, and hence the more superior it is in its loyalty
       to truth. We fundamentally view knowledge as a burden which
       should ideally be lightened as much as possible by
       simplification of lifestyle. This is part of asceticism, which
       underlies the True Left worldview.
       Finally, when competing civilizations exist, knowledge is often
       power. As such, necessary knowledge must (sadly) also include
       (at least temporarily) as much knowledge is needed for the
       spontaneously simpler civilizations to successfully destroy the
       spontaneously more complex civilizations, which must occur
       before the former can safely return to simplicity. (In this case
       alone can Z be considered superior to X, if its extra knowledge
       pertains to defeating spontaneously more complex civilizations.)
       In other words, Western civilization must die.
       ---
       “In this case alone can Z be considered superior to X, if its
       extra knowledge pertains to defeating spontaneously more complex
       civilizations.”
       So basically Western civilization is only useful insofar as it
       can be used to destroy itself.
       ---
       (With regard to the impact of the colonial era on empiricism,
       which is what it sounded like you wanted to discuss, individual
       advocates of empiricism did exist in non-Western civilizations
       prior to the colonial era, but it is definitely true that the
       prestige of empiricism in non-Western countries today is a
       consequence of deference more towards Western empiricism
       (introduced during the colonial era) than towards any of the
       non-Western empiricists. On the other hand, the False Left
       approach is to emphasize these non-Western empiricists as a way
       to show that non-Western civilizations are not inferior. This
       merely further reinforces the prestige of empiricism as a whole.
       The True Left must challenge empiricism itself.)
       ---
       "On the other hand, the False Left approach is to emphasize
       these non-Western empiricists as a way to show that non-Western
       civilizations are not inferior."
       Yes. The Carvakas are an example of this. Empiricists will often
       cite that "science" (i.e. empirical science) is not "Western"
       because it is merely the belief in the scientific method, but
       this can be disproved by showing how the scientific method
       itself originated in Aristotelean Greece and Enlightenment Era
       Europe. After this, the empiricists will bring up the
       non-Western empiricists. How do you propose we refute this? To
       show that belief in the superiority of empiricism* is ultimately
       a Western concept, and therefore Eurocentric?
       *Also, I find it particularly irritating that empiricists tend
       to conflate Enlightenment empiricism with rationalism, referring
       to themselves as "rationalists", when in fact they are only
       empiricists.
       ---
       "the empiricists will bring up the non-Western empiricists. How
       do you propose we refute this? To show that belief in the
       superiority of empiricism* is ultimately a Western concept, and
       therefore Eurocentric?"
       While there certainly existed individual empiricists arising in
       non-Western countries, those countries did not adopt empiricism
       owing to their influence. Rather, those countries eventually
       adopted empiricism only after contact with Western civilization
       during the colonial era. In other words, empiricism on its own
       was not persuasive to them; instead it was the machines
       possessed by the colonial powers that convinced them that
       empiricism (which enabled such machines to be invented) equalled
       worldly might, and hence had to be incorporated as a matter of
       self-defence given that an empiricist civilization was currently
       colonizing them.
       It was Westerners alone who adopted empiricism without being
       under attack from an existing empiricist civilization with more
       advanced machines.
       "I find it particularly irritating that empiricists tend to
       conflate Enlightenment empiricism with rationalism, referring to
       themselves as "rationalists", when in fact they are only
       empiricists."
       In the old days, telling someone you are a rationalist was
       understood to imply that you are not an empiricist.....
       By the way, have you noticed how recent crime fiction has become
       increasingly empiricist, emphasizing forensic analysis and other
       material elements? This is in contrast with the more rationalist
       Counterculture era crime fiction which was mostly about spotting
       contradictions in testimonials, which of course is much more
       entertaining for the viewer! Empiricism ruins art!
       ---
       For sure!
       Are you aware of the "Encyclopedia Brown" book series? I used to
       read them when I was a kid:
       en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclopedia_Brown
       The books specifically focused on detecting anomalies in crime
       stories, which, incidentally, was what led me to further
       investigate things such as 9/11.
       Nowadays, I rarely pay attention to whatever new crime drama is
       airing on television. It seems as though the predominance of
       material analysis is specifically tailored to cater to the
       sensibilities of Westerners, who seek sensory stimulation at
       every end.
       ---
       I have probably seen it around the library, but I did not follow
       the series. There were many similar series during the
       Counterculture era, mostly with children as the detectives. Some
       even tried to show children being better detectives than adults
       precisely because they had less knowledge and/or experience of
       the world and thus made fewer assumptions when initially
       studying a case. Also, because the criminals were usually
       adults, when covering their tracks they only accounted for what
       other adults were likely to notice, and would often miss
       something that adults would not notice but is obvious to
       children.
       ---
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNCRnlKfQXc
       I wish we could go back to talking about these types of subjects
       again...
       Looking back, it seems as though back then racism was so
       foreign, so alien to my mind that I could not even comprehend
       what a racist world would look like. Little did I know what was
       in store for me in a decade....
       ---
       Scientific Proof Is A Myth:
       www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/11/22/scientific-proof
       -is-a-myth/#7b843b942fb1
       ---
       Leave it to westerners and they'll measure everything
       eventually, or die trying, until nothing in the universe has not
       been touched and measured by their hand.
       ---
       Sam Harris (Jew) claims "science" can answer moral questions:
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj9oB4zpHww
       ---
       All he is doing is a word substitution:
       "well-being"/"flourishing"/etc. in place of "moral good" and
       then spuriously acting as though there already exists consensus
       (at least among the audience) on what
       "well-being"/"flourishing"/etc. is, thereby avoiding any serious
       discussion of morality while getting away with pretending that
       he is discussing morality.
       A simple question to expose his bullshit would be: who deserves
       "well-being"?
       The main point is that in his whole talk Harris only ever talks
       about quantitatively maximizing "well-being" etc. without ever
       considering that that could include giving it to those who do
       not deserve it - a huge moral red flag, yet one that Harris does
       not address, proving he is inherently not a moral thinker.
       I remember another talk by Harris (though I can't seem to find
       the video now) where he starts by asking his audience to imagine
       a world in which everyone is suffering the worst pain
       imaginable. According to him, no one should dispute that this
       would be the worst possible world. But it was trivially obvious
       to me that a worse world would be one in which only the good
       people suffer the worst pain imaginable while the evil people
       enjoy themselves. Indeed, I would consider the world Harris
       describes to be better than where we are now, since over there
       at least the evil people are getting what they deserve, and the
       good people should prefer suffering along with the evil people
       than letting the evil people get away unpunished! And that
       Harris apparently never looked at it this way reveals again that
       he is not a moral thinker.
       #Post#: 1113--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Truth =/= knowledge
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: September 11, 2020, 4:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       False Leftists will keep getting badly humiliated by rightists
       so long as they keep trying to claim credit for Western
       knowledge, since the very attempt to do so is an affirmation of
       the value of the knowledge being claimed:
  HTML https://vdare.com/public_upload/publication/featured_image/52731/VDARE-sailer-math.png
       Only the True Left approach of despising Western knowledge can
       defeat rightism. Instead of trying to claim calculus as of
       non-Western origin, we should be pointing out that it was
       calculus that made possible the engineering required for the
       Industrial Revolution (which, predictably enough, arose from the
       same civilization that invented calculus, duh!) which everyone
       already knows has irreparably harmed the environment:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-a-health-hazard/
       Thus we turn the fact of calculus being a Western discovery into
       an attack on Western civilization.
       In general, knowledge is power. The drive of Western
       civilization to endlessly accumulate knowledge (and to always
       seek practical applications for it) is nothing more than a
       reflection of its desire for increasing its power. This is why
       Western civilization is uniquely dangerous:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/if-western-civilization-does-not-die-soon/
       #Post#: 1114--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Truth =/= knowledge
       By: rp Date: September 11, 2020, 5:30 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Not to mention calculus takes a longer time to learn. This is
       not to say that it is necessarily more difficult than other
       types of mathematics (it isn't), it is just extremely tedious
       and its purpose (i.e. creating complex machinery) is immediately
       evident upon studying it.
       Although I would say some False Leftists who claim Calculus as
       having non-Western origins are redeemable, as they are merely
       trying to repudiate the hubris of Westerners, who claim
       intellectual "superiority". This is especially humiliating if
       one cannot thouroughly rebut the arguments, and thus has to
       concede the Western standards of "superiority". I recall when on
       ProBoards I was venting about this subject, I was more or less
       hinting at these False Leftists.
       #Post#: 1185--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Truth =/= knowledge
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: September 16, 2020, 3:06 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "they are merely trying to repudiate the hubris of Westerners,
       who claim intellectual "superiority"."
       Yes, but by doing so in their way, they are implying that if
       calculus is owed to Western civilization, then even they would
       agree that Western civilization is intellectually superior.
       What we need is a different standard of judging intellectual
       superiority. Seriously, what is so intellectually superior about
       recklessly discovering stuff, especially without looking ahead
       and predicting the potential consequences of doing so (as
       Western civilization has failed to do every time)? Is not the
       clarity to refrain from unnecessary discovery (and,
       preliminarily, the ability to discern what is unnecessary) the
       true mark of intellectual superiority? We need to start looking
       at accumulation of knowledge the same way we look at
       accumulation of consumer products. The smart shopper is not the
       compulsive shopper who spends all their time browsing and who
       cannot resist buying (probably paying using credit cards)
       everything that catches their eye (but who is never satisfied by
       what is bought, instead only moving on to thinking about what to
       buy next), but the one who spends as little time and money as
       possible to buy strictly what is really needed (and is satisfied
       with this). Why should it be any different with knowledge?
       Perhaps we should describe Westerners as compulsive discoverers?
       Our enemy Duchesne agrees with me about this, though of course
       he spins it positively:
  HTML https://www.eurocanadian.ca/2020/09/slovenian-magazine-interviews-ricardo-duchesne.html
       [quote]In Faustian Man I expanded on the importance of Spengler
       in our understanding of the West. Spengler believed that Western
       civilization was driven by an unusually dynamic and expansive
       psyche, by a personality driven to go beyond the known and
       master the unknown, reach new territorial frontiers, new
       frontiers of knowledge, transcend all possibilities and reach
       the highest peaks of achievement. I used the example of
       exploration as an endeavour that could clearly bring out the
       essence of this Faustian spirit. A standard explanation for the
       unsurpassed European drive to explore every corner of the earth
       is that Europeans were just more rapacious in their thirst for
       wealth and domination of lands. But I argued that the history of
       exploration during and after the Enlightenment era offered us
       with an opportunity to apprehend the essence of this Faustian
       soul. For while it is difficult to disentangle the pursuit of
       economic goals, gold and lands, in the earlier explorations of
       the Portuguese and Spaniards, for example, we can clearly
       apprehend the non-economic, purely spiritual nature of this soul
       in the explorations that Europeans carried from about the 1700s
       onward, because from this point on we can see explorers who had
       no interest in wealth, but were driven by a will to discover, to
       be the first to climb that mountain, to cross that dessert, to
       reach the center of Antarctica, irrespective of the economic
       costs, the possibilities of trade, or even the scientific
       knowledge to be gained. My point is not that only in the
       unadulterated desire to explore do we witness the Faustian soul.
       The urge to accumulate wealth and advance knowledge may exhibit
       this Faustian will just as intensively. The difference is that
       in the desire to explore for its own sake we can see the West’s
       psyche striving to surpass the mundane preoccupations of
       ordinary life, comfort and liberal pleasantries, proving what it
       means to be a man of aristocratic character.[/quote]
       I of course utterly disagree with his use of the term
       "aristocratic character". The correct term is hubris. True
       aristocratic character is asceticism. We could even use the term
       intellectual asceticism to refer precisely to consciously
       refraining from unnecessary discovery/invention. Thus true
       intellectual superiority is intellectual asceticism.
       #Post#: 5018--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Truth =/= knowledge
       By: rp Date: March 21, 2021, 10:44 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Going back to this article:
  HTML https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/11/22/scientific-proof-is-a-myth/?sh=2c9e4aae2fb1
       This paragraph says it all:
       [quote]
       This doesn’t mean it’s impossible to know anything at all. To
       the contrary, in many ways,   scientific knowledge is the most
       “real” knowledge that we can possibly gain about the world . But
       in science,  nothing is ever proven beyond a shadow of a doubt .
       If something is not proven, how can it be accepted as truth?
       #Post#: 5029--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Truth =/= knowledge
       By: rp Date: March 22, 2021, 9:34 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Dumbass empiricist Richard Dawkins (Jew) refers to himself as a
       "rationalist" in the title of his latest book:
       Science in the Soul: Selected Writings of a Passionate
       Rationalist.
  HTML https://books.google.com/books/about/Science_in_the_Soul.html?id=ZpkrDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&gboemv=1
       How long does he think he can fool us?
       #Post#: 6164--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Truth =/= knowledge
       By: Zea_mays Date: May 5, 2021, 10:19 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       To offer some additional thoughts, beyond mere knowledge, I
       think Western Civilization is obsessed with expanding the amount
       of information in existence. More and more people seem to be
       satisfied merely by someone believing a statement is accurate
       knowledge, rather than having actual evidence to demonstrate a
       statement is likely to be accurate and therefore contribute to
       knowledge.
       Today, generation of additional information is primarily done
       through "novel" research in academic institutions and private
       companies. "Novel research" from experimentation and other
       empirical methods is not even the only way to obtain knowledge.
       Other ways include curation of existing information and
       synthesis/integration of existing information. In contrast to
       the preferred Western method, both of these contribute to
       knowledge by REDUCING the amount of information in circulation.
       (However, as I will mention, although these methods are useful,
       they do not guarantee truthfulness).
       Curation involves collecting, organizing, and often providing a
       summary/commentary on the information for reference purposes.
       Knowledge is not of much use if people seeking it are unable to
       know about its existence in the first place, and if is is not
       shared with those who need/benefit from it.
       The curator reduces the amount of knowledge in circulation by
       refusing to include low-quality information in the collection.
       (Although they would increase access to knowledge, via the act
       of organizing everything into a collection). In addition, they
       reduce the amount of redundant information circulating by
       collecting similar information and grouping it by theme/topic,
       etc. This reduces information because, generally, the core
       collection would only retain whichever information is the most
       knowledgeable and the best examination of a topic (rather than
       including EVERYTHING ever written on a topic).
       Curators generally do not produce additional "novel" knowledge.
       Instead, they prefer to gain a broader understanding of the
       massive amount of information already in existence, which is
       more than any person could possibly learn in a single lifetime.
       Examples of curators include librarians and collectors of art,
       coins, etc. (who delve deeper into the subject by studying
       existing art, etc., rather than sharing new material).
       The librarian/curator may not directly contribute to the
       understanding of the truth, but they can serve as a resource to
       point a dedicated truth-seeker in a meaningful direction. (To go
       on a tangent, curators can also point truth-seekers in the WRONG
       direction. Mainstream/Alternative media (curators of information
       regarding current events) can lie by omission, report on a very
       biased selection/curation of events in order to shape people's
       views, etc. So, curation is not a way to obtain truth in and of
       itself, but merely a tool which can help if used sincerely).
       By Western academic standards, I think curation is rarely
       considered a "novel" project, and therefore little is invested
       in it. Unless it can be used to serve as a database for further
       empirical investigations. (But even in these cases, there are so
       many redundant projects, because the database managers don't
       work together to curate things and reduce the complexity of
       existing databases!)
       Then, there is the synthesis of existing information. Broadly,
       individuals who do this are subject matter experts who dig
       deeply into existing knowledge. There is more information in
       circulation than any human can possibly read/view in a single
       lifetime. Subject matter experts specialize in a topic and (1)
       integrate the most important knowledge into a cohesive treatise
       or summary (so other people don't need to spend a lifetime
       reading all the same things just to get a rigorous understanding
       of the topic!) and (2) convey the value of the knowledge and the
       purpose of why someone would want to bother to learn it in the
       first place.
       Examples of this would be when a film critic watches hundreds of
       films and then is able to review them by recommending
       high-quality ones and telling us to not waste our time with the
       low-quality ones. Historians would be another good example of
       this--they go through countless old records in order to
       integrate them into a narrative. But in the Western academic
       system, even historians are generally expected to produce
       additional "novel" information, rather than simply making an
       expert synthesis of already-existing topics and knowledge.
       Ancient historians are even better, since instead of focusing on
       producing novel knowledge, they focused on _paring down_ the
       amount of extraneous details and also focusing on ethical
       lessons.
       The biggest criticism of students learning history are usually
       "why do we have to learn this" and "what's the point in
       memorizing this list of names and dates". Pedagogues of the
       Western system can never give a satisfactory answer to these
       questions. The ancient historians answer by saying: here's why
       it is worthwhile to learn this story/legend/myth, and I will
       present only the details necessary for understanding the story.
       (To go on another tangent, enemy agents posing as impartial
       subject-matter experts, such as historians, can attempt to
       REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF TRUTHFUL INFORMATION IN CIRCULATION. They
       are dangerous, because in order to effectively control the
       narrative they genuinely do have to be experts in the subject
       they are deployed in. So, like curators, subject-matter experts
       provide knowledge, and may not always present impartial and
       fully truthful information.)
       I think another important function of integrating already
       existing knowledge is that there is a ton of "old" research,
       opinions, and information that are actually still insightful
       today. By Western academic standards, studying "old" knowledge
       (e.g. generally academic papers older than 20+ years or so) is
       frown upon as a waste of time. Yet these academics will praise
       people like Newton or Darwin for being foundational for a field,
       and few have actually read their works.
       In my own study of 125-year-old bio-anthropology works, I
       discovered these old scientists had better arguments against
       ethno-tribalism than present-day biologists. Yet no mainstream
       biologists and sociologists seem to know about this because they
       never bother to dig deeply into the knowledge that already
       exists! How wasteful to have to reinvent the wheel every
       generation because people are addicted to generating piles of
       new information.
       Especially with the tendency to view history as a "march of
       progress", they view it as below them to examine "outdated",
       "backwards", and "crude" information from the past. In their
       egotistical pursuit of producing their own "novel" knowledge,
       they ignore all the knowledge that has already been generated.
       Even for academics who aren't so egotistical, they simply don't
       have time to read it all when they have dedicated all their
       energy to producing new knowledge. Ironically, by continuing to
       produce "novel" knowledge regardless of its quality or purpose,
       they compound the problem by producing so much new information
       that it becomes difficult even for subject matter experts to
       study old information when they get buried by all the new
       information being produced.
       Meanwhile, in pre-Renaissance academic circles, a small handful
       of treatises written by subject matter experts were sometimes
       used for over a thousand years with minimal changes. In terms of
       truth, it is easier to demonstrate and do damage control on the
       falsehoods from a small collection of information that is not
       growing rapidly, compared to the deluge of information pumped
       out by the Western academic system. During the effort it takes
       to demonstrate a single thing to be a untrue, a hundred more
       pieces of information take its place.
       In fact, the Western academic system has become so obsessed with
       producing massive quantities of additional "novel" information,
       that they have even stopped following the scientific method
       (which requires _repeated_ experiments/observations on the same
       specific topic in order to provide enough evidence for something
       to be considered accurate knowledge)! In other words, if the
       Renaissance caused the mere quantity of knowledge (generated via
       empiricism/scientific method) to eclipse the importance of
       truth, at some point along the line Western civilization began
       to value the sheer QUANTITY OF INFORMATION CREATED over even
       accurate knowledge itself.
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis
       Any thoughts on this?
       There is probably a decent amount of overlap between what a
       curator and "subject-matter expert" do, but I think we can
       summarize it by saying a curator collects/gathers the existing
       data together and gives it some order/organization. They
       understand things broadly, but not necessarily in exhaustive
       depth. (For example, if you ask a librarian if they have
       information on X topic, they would be able to point you in the
       correct direction for the information you're looking for, even
       if they've never read much on that topic. A museum curator would
       have a good grasp on history and different cultures and how they
       all relate together in terms of time period and geography, but
       they wouldn't necessarily be a world-renown expert in any
       specific culture).
       The subject-matter expert would typically consult multiple
       curated collections (in addition to doing their own searches
       through raw and uncurated data) in order to find information to
       further pare down. If the subject-matter expert is a sincere
       truth-seeker, the amount of extraneous knowledge in existence
       can be safely phased out (which is what ancient historians did
       by passing history into mythology). Future generations of
       truth-seekers would then consult the work of previous
       subject-matter experts when learning information, although they
       would have to conduct their own examination of it to verify it
       is indeed accurate and truthful. Blindly trusting previous
       subject-matter experts merely because they were
       recognized/designated as subject-matter experts is just
       traditionalism! Moreover, simply because they were experts
       sincerely seeking the truth doesn't mean they got EVERYTHING
       correct. We acknowledge their mistakes and attempt to correct
       them where they went wrong.
       Any thoughts on how to discover and what to do if the
       subject-matter expert is actually a propagandist trying to
       obscure the truth? I guess one of the first steps could be to
       examine the character/ideological views of the individual. If it
       appears they have some ulterior motives or ignoble worldview, we
       would have to scrutinize their claims through different
       techniques. Maybe this is too much of an epistemological
       question.
       #Post#: 6183--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Truth =/= knowledge
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: May 6, 2021, 1:28 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "The curator reduces the amount of knowledge in circulation by
       refusing to include low-quality information in the collection."
       Curation is the accurate term for the process that present-day
       rightists wrongly refer to as "censorship" (as done by private
       organizations, which by definition is not censorship). We should
       use this word more! Every time rightists claim that they are
       being "censored" by [insert platform here], we can tell them
       they are in fact being curated ;D
       "There is more information in circulation than any human can
       possibly read/view in a single lifetime."
       This is a very important point. A long time ago, I proved that
       it is generally impossible for any two communicating people to
       fully understand each other unless both are exposed to
       essentially the same subset of information. This is because, as
       soon as two people are exposed to different subsets of
       information, it is generally impossible to determine with
       certainty whether a disagreement between them on a given issue
       is due solely to difference in personality, solely to difference
       in the information they possess on that issue, or some
       particular combination of the two.
       This is why civilizations which Westerners would call "less
       knowledgeable" actually enabled people to engage in
       higher-quality communication. Having less information in
       circulation, communicators could much more quickly diagnose the
       source of any disagreements. Westernization, in injecting so
       much more information into circulation, ensured this was no
       longer possible. People today are still aware that they
       disagree, but are no longer able to easily figure out why.
       (Instead, they are merely advised to be "tolerant".)
       "I discovered these old scientists had better arguments against
       ethno-tribalism than present-day biologists. Yet no mainstream
       biologists and sociologists seem to know about this"
       Please present these somewhere when you have time.
       "Especially with the tendency to view history as a "march of
       progress", they view it as below them to examine "outdated",
       "backwards", and "crude" information from the past."
       We could even argue a parallel between this and its counterpart
       in finance where savings are devalued over time by an utterly
       insane phenomenon called "inflation". What you are describing
       could be called informational inflation.
       "In their egotistical pursuit of producing their own "novel"
       knowledge"
       This is driven by the ultimate Western academic prestige of
       getting a theory/equation/method/etc. named after oneself, thus
       having one's name immortalized. We could call this academic
       Achilleanism.
       "Ironically, by continuing to produce "novel" knowledge
       regardless of its quality or purpose, they compound the problem
       by producing so much new information that it becomes difficult
       even for subject matter experts to study old information when
       they get buried by all the new information being produced.
       ...
       In terms of truth, it is easier to demonstrate and do damage
       control on the falsehoods from a small collection of information
       that is not growing rapidly, compared to the deluge of
       information pumped out by the Western academic system. During
       the effort it takes to demonstrate a single thing to be a
       untrue, a hundred more pieces of information take its place."
       This is one of the recurring themes of Western civilization!
       "Any thoughts on how to discover and what to do if the
       subject-matter expert is actually a propagandist trying to
       obscure the truth?"
       Self-proclaimed subject-matter experts should only be recognized
       as subject-matter experts if their treatises accurately
       represent all requested opposing arguments to the narrative they
       themselves favour. Intellectually dishonest experts tend to
       include strawman opposing arguments while either ignoring or
       misrepresenting arguments that are actually dangerous to their
       narrative. But if those who do this are called out on it, they
       must either respond by incorporating accurately the opposing
       argument offered or else fail to be taken seriously.
       #Post#: 6208--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Truth =/= knowledge
       By: guest5 Date: May 7, 2021, 9:45 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm also reminded of Western legalese after reading the above
       comments, and laws and bills introduced in Western style
       parliamentary governments that occupy thousands upon thousands
       of pages that no one ever has the time to read by themselves. As
       an example, wasn't the actual Obama Care bill over 10,000 pages
       long? I've always believed that if a lawmaker cannot write a law
       onto 10 or less pages that anyone can understand and read then
       that law should be scrapped and never be brought into existence
       in the first place.
  HTML https://www.quantified.ai/hs-fs/hubfs/blog-files/Clarity%20-%20Legalese.png?width=768&name=Clarity%20-%20Legalese.png
       [img width=1077
       height=1280]
  HTML https://dottedandcrossed.eu/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/AdobeStock_142617792-1400x1664.jpeg[/img]
       #Post#: 6229--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Truth =/= knowledge
       By: guest5 Date: May 8, 2021, 10:46 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       This belongs here as well I think as a reminder considering
       Judeo-Freemasonry is a Western construct:
  HTML https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4f/d8/c9/4fd8c96071d63a6f0fa99cfe413cf57b.jpg
       Note, not the "pursuit of truth" but of "knowledge"...
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