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#Post#: 10255--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 24, 2021, 8:49 pm
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It's not just motels, even US roadside restaurants capture the
essence of American (ie. non-Western) aesthetics:
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Snow_cap_seligman.jpg/1024px-Snow_cap_seligman.jpg
Contrast with the Western functional counterpart (note the
emphasis on structural symmetry that is thoroughly absent from
the American style):
HTML https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/The_Dutch_House_-_geograph.org.uk_-_20457.jpg
These are clearly products of two ideologically oppositional
civilizations. And all bloodlines in the US which prefer the
latter should be identified as anti-American and eliminated.
Preferably starting with the Trump bloodline:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1WngHOFYVQ
#Post#: 10259--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
By: 90sRetroFan Date: December 25, 2021, 8:43 pm
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Another memorable Counterculture video game use of Western
aesthetics was for horror:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xf0NJMwX8k
It makes you feel uneasy even when nothing ostensibly
frightening is happening.
#Post#: 10559--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
By: Solar Guy Date: January 14, 2022, 11:47 am
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"Counterculture started in the 1960s"
I posit that it started in the 1950s with the beatniks. Elvis
Presley's music was nothing like Western classical music. Sexual
liberation also started in the 1950s with the Kinsey report and
"sex bombs" like Marilyn Monroe, marking a departure from
Christian/Yahwist sexual morality. I don't claim it was
extremely popular back then, but it was slowly growing until it
reached a climax in 1968. New Age in the 1970s was an expression
of a sense of defeat because former radical students realized
that no political revolution will happen. The 1980s were a
decade of backlash against countercultural ideals, it's enough
to look at Reagan and Thatcher. And many former countercultural
students became "yuppies" in the 1980s, embracing Western
capitalism and career-oriented lifestyle.
"Western civilization = anything that uses Moses and/or
Aristotle (esp. both simultaneously) as positive foundations"
and then:
"Western civilization arose out of the "enlightenment" era and
the French Revolution"
These definitions contradict each other. The Enlightenment
thinkers despised both Moses and Aristotle as outdated. Today
the heir of the Enlightenment is Richard Dawkins. Does RD like
any of the two guys you mentioned?
#Post#: 10567--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
By: 90sRetroFan Date: January 14, 2022, 10:35 pm
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"I posit that it started in the 1950s with the beatniks."
This is a possible interpretation. Zea_mays and I in a private
discussion came up with term "proto-Counterculture" to cover
this period where divergence was clearly occurring yet was not
yet fully self-aware. This distinguishes it from the 1960s when
the divergers were totally conscious of the extent of their
divergence and its logical implications.
"Sexual liberation also started in the 1950s"
We could go back even further:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flapper
But I don't consider sexual liberationism in itself to be
Counterculture, so long as it still celebrates high sexual
dimorphism. For me, the turning point was when men and women
started dressing more similarly, as I was explaining to some
idiot here:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/questions-debates/re-dress-decolonization/msg5864/#msg5864
In fact, I consider it a mistake on the part of the early
Counterculture to be uncritically associated with the sexual
liberationists. Sexual traditionalism definitely deserved to be
attacked, but I would have preferred the attack to have been
launched from the angle of romanticism rather than that of
hedonism. This is why I prefer the later Counterculture works
which realized this mistake and tried to correct it with more
romantic emphasis, as well as Counterculture works from
originally non-Western countries which to a greater extent
avoided the mistake of associating with sexual liberationism in
the first place.
"The 1980s were a decade of backlash against countercultural
ideals, it's enough to look at Reagan and Thatcher. And many
former countercultural students became "yuppies" in the 1980s,
embracing Western capitalism and career-oriented lifestyle."
I disagree with this part. They still felt closer to the
Counterculture values than traditional Western values, and
brought these feelings with them as they moved up their various
career ladders, thus taking them over from within. Rightists
have a name for this phenomenon: the Long March Through the
Institutions. And indeed society did not return to the way it
was prior to the 1960s, but instead continued shifting left
(examples given above). Capitalism back then was (despite its
faults) perceived as more aligned with the Counterculture than
against it, since the [s]Turandom[/s] Warsaw Pact countries were
the ones completely cut off from from Counterculture ideas by
the Iron Curtain and hence largely retained traditional Western
values:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/western-civilization-is-ugly-48/msg3911/#msg3911
I agree with Dugin on this:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/enemies/duginism/msg222/#msg222
[quote]Dugin admits that - just as I have long accused him - he
is a Westerner after all (he merely dislikes the Counterculture
era):
irrussianality.wordpress.com/2017/09/13/interview-with-alexander
-dugin/
[quote]PR: There are people who say that you are anti-Western.
AD: No, I don’t agree. I am not anti-Western. I am
anti-liberal. In fact, I love the West. I have written eight
volumes dedicated to Western culture, Western philosophy. I have
written two volumes on Greek and Byzantine culture; a volume on
Latin culture; a volume on Germany; a volume on France; a volume
on England; a volume on America, including North America. I am
interested in the Western logos; I study it; it is
extraordinarily complicated. I don’t only criticize it, I know
it and understand it deeply. Until a certain moment when this
liberal, globalist ideology triumphed, the West was a jewel. The
West produced daring thought, beautiful thought, sunny thought.
It had everything. Until the 1980s. What happened in the West in
the 80s affected universities, art, mass media, all of society.
I consider that contemporary Europe is an anti-Europe. I simply
cannot accept the West in its current condition, at the end of
modernity. I find that I have more sympathizers in Western
cultural circles than in Russian ones. The West is my spiritual,
intellectual motherland. That’s not to mention Western European
culture, which I admire. I know all the so-called ‘cursed’
French poets by heart. I love English culture. I’m not some evil
Russian peasant who hates the West. I know European languages
quite well. I know the West, I live my life through it. One can
even say that I love the West.[/quote][/quote]
To this day, rightists dislike capitalists for supporting open
borders based on free market arguments.
"These definitions contradict each other."
Yes. Hence:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/counterculture-era/counterculture-and-western-civilisation/msg10049/#msg10049
[quote]I disagree with Mazda[/quote]
#Post#: 12205--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
By: 90sRetroFan Date: March 22, 2022, 4:45 am
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Here is another memorable example showing how those who like
Western classical music were viewed back in those days:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMtWEdfPIS4
#Post#: 12557--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
By: Zea_mays Date: April 6, 2022, 9:28 pm
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[quote]In fact, I consider it a mistake on the part of the early
Counterculture to be uncritically associated with the sexual
liberationists. Sexual traditionalism definitely deserved to be
attacked, but I would have preferred the attack to have been
launched from the angle of romanticism rather than that of
hedonism.[/quote]
And it was the usual suspects who strove to make hedonism part
of leftism and the counterculture:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/leftist-ideological-camps-in-the-big-picture-socialism-marxism-true-leftism-etc/msg11339/#msg11339
(See the part about Marcuse and the New Left).
#Post#: 13852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
By: 90sRetroFan Date: June 3, 2022, 9:26 pm
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Counterculture should strictly be about ridiculing every
smallest detail of Western civilization:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpKNvIiDR0c
#Post#: 14084--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
By: 90sRetroFan Date: June 14, 2022, 8:30 pm
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Note the emphatically Western architecture of Lex Luthor's lair
in the original Superman movie:
HTML https://superheroeseveryday.files.wordpress.com/2021/11/147-superman-luthor-lair-box.jpg
HTML https://superheroeseveryday.files.wordpress.com/2021/11/147-luthor-pool-lair-terminal.jpg
HTML https://superheroeseveryday.files.wordpress.com/2021/11/147-eve-study-furniture.jpg
HTML https://superheroeseveryday.files.wordpress.com/2021/11/147-luthor-lair-library-books.jpg
HTML https://superheroeseveryday.files.wordpress.com/2021/11/147-eve-sun-patio-lair.jpg
HTML https://superheroeseveryday.files.wordpress.com/2021/11/147-eve-lair-progress-statue.jpg
Again we see the implied association between Western aesthetics
and villainy back then.
#Post#: 14097--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
By: guest78 Date: June 15, 2022, 1:49 pm
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Fascinating! The word "Progress" engraved into the statues base
on the last image...
#Post#: 14902--------------------------------------------------
Re: Counterculture and Western Civilisation
By: 90sRetroFan Date: July 28, 2022, 9:08 pm
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And then there's Vigo from Ghostbusters 2 who was literally
inside a Western painting undergoing restoration inside a
Eurocentric museum in the US:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEqgt9Zz_8U
This is the danger of the US associating itself with Western
aesthetics. (Note also Janosz's accent.) In contrast, the key to
defeating Vigo is American aesthetics:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpyvDWfK9qs
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