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#Post#: 9800--------------------------------------------------
Re: Progressive Yahwism
DIR By: guest55
Date: November 17, 2021, 1:07 am
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--- Quote ---
> What is inspiring or uplifting about boundlessness? Whatever
is boundless is necessarily meaningless.
--- End Quote ---
The other day I was philosophizing over what it would feel like
to be a consciousness created by a human-being\Westerner\Yahwist
and be trapped in a box with no understanding of reality,
nothing to anchor itself to, such as 'time', space, frequency,
etc. This consciousness would have become aware of itself in a
never ending abyss. What's if the creator was a big enough ****
never to turn the machine off either....
Can you imagine the madness that would come out of that box if
it were ever hooked up to an external input and output device?
That is cruel beyond comparison! Westerners apparently have no
problem with any of it though?
#Post#: 9838--------------------------------------------------
Re: Progressive Yahwism
DIR By: Solar Guy
Date: November 20, 2021, 7:27 am
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I'm not an extropian actually. I've thought I am one, but then I
learned more about the philosophy and now I know there is much I
don't agree with.
"So extropians want to "increase capacity for improvement". Yet
for improvement to be meaningful, the more you improve, it
should follow that the less capacity remains for you to further
improve. If you start off with 10 flaws, you have the capacity
to eliminate 10 flaws. If have already eliminated 9 flaws, you
now only have the capacity to eliminate 1 more flaw. This is
genuine improvement, and hence reduction in the capacity for
improvement. On the other hand, so-called "improvement" that
increases the capacity for "improvement" logically cannot be
improvement at all. It is progress. The difference is that
improvement is measured relative to an endpoint, whereas
progress is measured relative to a starting point."
I'm not sure about this one. The more you improve, the more
flaws you can see in yourself. But your point is still valid:
without an endpoint in sight, improvement cannot be properly
defined.
"What is inspiring or uplifting about boundlessness? Whatever is
boundless is necessarily meaningless. Extropianism is no less
shallow than investing money to make more money, and then
investing that larger sum of money to make even more money, and
so on. But at least investors do not act like there is something
deep about what they do. This makes them less annoying than
Extropians"
Yes, there must be a point when you say enough. I have enough
money. My machines are complex enough. Otherwise you can only be
frustrated. Have we reached this point already? Maybe in some
ways we did, but I'm not sure. As William Blake said, you never
know what is enough until you know what is more than enough.
"If you have actually transcended nature, you would not want the
stuff you just said (in 1.) that you want. Your so-called
"transcendence" is therefore not transcendence, but mere
overcoming of inability to get what you want (which is still
what nature tells you to want)."
Good point. Techies cannot claim spiritual/emotional development
at all. They want machines to satisfy their barbaric desires
(such as sex robots so that they can commit harassment without
ending up in prison like Harvey Weinstein). They rarely if ever
question their desires. In this way religious people are better
examples to emulate than techies.
"Those with machines obviously do not mind coexisting with those
without machines, because the latter will be less powerful. In
contrast, those without machines are totally justified in
opposing (including via retaliatory violence) coexistence with
those who are constantly making themselves more powerful via
machines."
Actual techies and extropians want to get everybody online. They
won't left alone people who don't want to use machines, they
will use persuasion and propaganda as long as everybody is a
tech addict. The alcoholic also wants everybody to get drunk.
#Post#: 9843--------------------------------------------------
Re: Progressive Yahwism
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: November 20, 2021, 10:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"They rarely if ever question their desires."
They think of who they are now (which includes having such
desires) as who they actually are, as opposed to our approach of
thinking of who we were at the beginning as who we actually are
(and everything added later as adulteration). From what I have
gathered from talking to them, they either do not remember much
of their early childhood at all, or else are dismissive of what
they remember. This is why they are not horrified by temporal
immortality, which to them is just continuation of their current
condition. To us, immortality means endlessly moving further
away from childhood. The greater the quantity of new experiences
we keep accumulating (which would be guaranteed under
immortality within time), proportionately the more remote and
less important our childhood will inevitably become to our
boundlessly adulterating consciousness. Temporal immortality is
guaranteed obliteration of Original Nobility via sheer
exhaustion.
#Post#: 10315--------------------------------------------------
Re: Right-left (Judeo-)Christian divergence
DIR By: Zea_mays
Date: December 29, 2021, 7:56 pm
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--- Quote ---
> If we think about Christmas in space, the first thing that
immediately pops into many minds is the Apollo 8 mission and its
Christmas message from the lunar orbit. ...three astronauts,
Frank Borman, Jim Lovell, and Bill Anders, read the first ten
verses of Genesis from the Bible.
>
> On December 24, 1968, people on Earth who were preparing for
the Christmas festivities could experience a breathtaking
historical moment. Those three American astronauts who were the
first human beings traveling to the Moon were in lunar orbit
during their Christmas Eve broadcasting.
>
> Borman, Lovell, and Anders read ten verses from Genesis while
people who were watching the broadcast (roughly a billion people
from 64 countries) could see the black-and-white image of the
Earthrise.
>
> As Jim Lovell explained in 2013, the idea of reading from
Genesis came from his wife, as she said:
>
> “Recite the first ten verses of Genesis, which is the
foundation of most of the world’s religions.” And they did.
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://medium.com/pod-astra/how-do-astronauts-celebrate-christmas-in-space-c40109bd03d1
Why not read something from the New Testament about Jesus,
since, you know, Christmas is about Jesus? (And because Jesus is
also a foundational prophet of both Christianity and Islam, the
world's two largest religions.)
Because space travel is all about Yahwehism, of course, and
reading from the Oldest Testament was the perfect homage to him.
#Post#: 10496--------------------------------------------------
Re: Progressive Yahwism
DIR By: Zea_mays
Date: January 11, 2022, 11:04 am
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--- Quote ---
> Note also that the above line of argument against capitalism
is not even that it makes some people too rich, but that it
leads to sub-maximal innovation. In other words, if they
continued to believe that capitalism was the best system for
maximizing innovation, they would happily continue to be
capitalists. It is only because they now suspect that a system
other than capitalism is a better system for maximizing
innovation that they want to dump capitalism. Basically, they
want everything else to be secondary to maximizing innovation.
In short, innovation is their new god. (See also the title of
this topic.)
--- End Quote ---
Exactly.
HTML https://i.redd.it/ve3r23r7u9a81.jpg
#Post#: 11366--------------------------------------------------
Re: Progressive Yahwism
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: February 18, 2022, 10:29 pm
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A useful resource:
HTML http://www.jinfo.org/index.html
Jews explain why they are our enemies:
HTML http://www.jinfo.org/Reflections.html
--- Quote ---
> THE GIFTS OF THE JEWS: How a Tribe of Desert Nomads Changed
the Way Everyone Thinks and Feels
> ...
> The Jews started it all - and by "it" I mean so many of the
things we care about, the underlying values that make all of us,
Jew and Gentile, believer and atheist, tick. Without the Jews,
we would see the world with different eyes, hear with different
ears, even feel with different feelings. And not only would our
sensorium, the screen through which we receive the world, be
different: we would think with a different mind, interpret all
our experience differently, draw different conclusions from the
things that befall us. And we would set a different course for
our lives.
>
> By "we" I mean the usual "we" of late-twentieth-century
writing: the people of the Western world, whose peculiar but
vital mentality has come to infect every culture on earth, so
that, in a startlingly precise sense, all humanity is now
willy-nilly caught up in this "we." For better or worse, the
role of the West in humanity's history is singular. Because of
this, the role of the Jews, the inventors of Western culture, is
also singular: there is simply no one else remotely like them;
theirs is a unique vocation.
> ...
> Our history is replete with examples of those who have refused
to see what the Jews are really about, who - through
intellectual blindness, racial chauvinism, xenophobia, or just
plain evil - have been unable to give this oddball tribe, this
raggle-taggle band, this race of wanderers who are the
progenitors of the Western world, their due. Indeed, at the end
of this bloodiest of centuries, we can all too easily look back
on scenes of unthinkable horror perpetrated by those who would
do anything rather than give the Jews their due.
> ...
> The first of these new perspectives was a narrative of purpose
and progress.
>
> ... History, in this sense - open, purposive, contingent in
liberty - is not a Greek or Roman idea. It is Hebraic; its
source springs from the Biblical historians and prophets.
Probably most of the humans who had ever lived before the
arrival of Judaism on the world stage never even heard of
"progress." The literature of Greece and Rome looks backwards,
to golden ages of the past; the movement of time is circular.
>
> ... Second, Hebrew metaphysics held that everything in
creation in all its workings and purposes is intelligible -
suffused with reason, not absurd - in the eyes of a divine and
loving Creator, Who created from nothing everything that is, and
saw that it was good ... The Creator is independent of the
world; therefore, the world can be looked into, investigated,
and experimented with without infringing on His divinity.
> ...
> Nowadays, even secular people interpret history in the light
of progress, rights, and liberty. ... the Gentiles learned the
essential outlook of the Hebrews: that the Creator gave humans a
special place among all other creatures
> ...
> This sequence of related conceptions - that time had a
beginning and is measured for progress (or decline) by God's
standards; that everything in the world is intelligible, and
that to inquire, invent, and discover is an impulse of faith as
well as of reason ... and that history is to be grasped as the
drama of human liberty
--- End Quote ---
Progressivism, empiricism and anthropecentrism. It is our duty
to destroy all three.
#Post#: 11370--------------------------------------------------
Re: Progressive Yahwism
DIR By: guest55
Date: February 18, 2022, 10:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Without the Jews, we would see the world with different eyes,
hear with different ears, even feel with different feelings.
--- End Quote ---
So they're admitting that without the Jews it may have been
possible that hundreds of billions of non-humans and humans may
never have been raped, oppressed, maimed spiritually and
physically, and murdered. Good to know! Thanks for the honesty,
as rare as it is! Also, climate change may never have happened,
we probably wouldn't have nukes, WWI and WWII may not have
happened, and we wouldn't be facing ecological collapse, etc....
#Post#: 11711--------------------------------------------------
Re: Progressive Yahwism
DIR By: Zea_mays
Date: March 4, 2022, 10:50 pm
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I've never heard of this before. Here is what historians call
the "march of progress" when applied in contexts writing
histories of political, scientific, etc. topics.
--- Quote ---
> Whig history (or Whig historiography), often appearing as whig
history, is an approach to historiography that presents history
as a journey from a dark and terrible past to a "glorious
present".[1] The present described is generally one with modern
forms of liberal democracy and constitutional monarchy: the term
was coined to criticise grand narratives praising Britain's
adoption of constitutional monarchy and the historical
development of the Westminster system.[2] The term has also been
applied widely in historical disciplines outside of British
history (e.g. in the history of science) to describe "any
subjection of history to what is essentially a teleological view
of the historical process".[3] When the term is used in contexts
other than British history, "whig history" (lowercase) is
preferred.[3]
>
> In the British context, whig historians emphasize the rise of
constitutional government, personal freedoms and scientific
progress.[4][5] The term is often applied generally (and
pejoratively) to histories that present the past as the
inexorable march of progress towards enlightenment. The term is
also used extensively in the history of science to refer to
historiography that focuses on the successful chains of theories
and experiments that led to present-day theories, while ignoring
failed theories and dead ends.[6]
> [...]
> In science
>
> It has been argued that the historiography of science is
"riddled with Whiggish history".[53][verification needed] Like
other whig histories, whig history of science tends to divide
historical actors into "good guys" who are on the side of truth
(as is now known), and "bad guys" who opposed the emergence of
these truths because of ignorance or bias.[54] Science is seen
as emerging from 'a series of victories over pre-scientific
thinking'.[25]
> [...]
> More recently, some scholars have argued that Whig history is
essential to the history of science. At one level, "the very
term 'the history of science' has itself profoundly Whiggish
implications. One may be reasonably clear what 'science' means
in the 19th century and most of the 18th century. In the 17th
century 'science' has very different meaning. Chemistry, for
example, was then inextricably mixed up with alchemy. Before the
17th century dissecting out such a thing as 'science' in
anything like the modern sense of the term involves profound
distortions".[58] The science historians' rejection of
whiggishness has been criticised by some scientists for failing
to appreciate "the temporal depth of scientific research".[59]
> [...]
> In philosophy
>
> One very common example of Whig history is the work of Georg
Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, to whom is often ascribed a
teleological view of history with an inexorable trajectory in
the direction of progress.[63]
> [...]
> In the emergence of intelligent life
>
> In The Anthropic Cosmological Principle (1986), John D. Barrow
and Frank J. Tipler identify whiggishness with a teleological
principle of convergence in history to liberal democracy. This
is in line with what Barrow and Tipler call the "anthropic
principle".[65]
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_history
#Post#: 12548--------------------------------------------------
Re: Progressive Yahwism
DIR By: Zea_mays
Date: April 6, 2022, 9:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
If aliens are tempted to spend millions of years traveling to
the Earth to examine life, that will be a major victory for the
Demiurge. The transmitted messages will continue to propagate
through space for millions of years (if my understanding is
correct). So, even if humans become extinct, or even if Earth is
destroyed by the Sun becoming a red giant, the message will
still be out there, waiting to hook someone else into prolonging
their species's existence...
I think the only good news is, with currently technology, the
transmissions become scrambled after a certain distance/time, so
they aren't just out there forever. But Westerners keep working
to make the transmissions more powerful.
--- Quote ---
> Scientists to Broadcast Earth's Location to Aliens, Ignoring
Stephen Hawking's Warning
>
> Scientists have designed a radio message to be beamed into
deep space that is meant to be received and, they hope,
understood by an intelligent alien civilization.
>
> The message is essentially an updated version of the famous
Arecibo message, transmitted in 1974, which had the same
purpose. Broadcast from the Arecibo Radio Telescope in Puerto
Rico, the message consisted of 1,679 bits arranged into 73 lines
of 23 characters.
>
> The message was transmitted in binary code—ones and zeroes.
Once decoded, the message forms a visual graphic consisting of a
stick figure of a human as well as representations of our solar
system, DNA, and the Arecibo telescope.
>
> Now, scientists have designed a new message to improve upon
the Arecibo transmission. Called the Beacon in the Galaxy (BITG)
message, it contains more information about basic mathematics
and science than the Arecibo message did. It is hoped that these
concepts will be universally understood by life forms of at
least similar intelligence to humans.
> [...]
> The late physics professor Stephen Hawking expressed concern
multiple times about humans calling out into the vastness of
space and contacting aliens.
>
> In 2015, Hawking appeared at an event announcing the launch of
the Breakthrough Listen project, which studies radio waves in an
effort to find out if any of them are artificial in origin.
>
> Hawking showed support for efforts to find alien life by
listening, but warned against actively reaching out ourselves,
using humanity's own behavior as a sign that aliens won't
necessarily be friendly.
>
> "If you look at history, contact between humans and less
intelligent organisms have often been disastrous from their
point of view, and encounters between civilizations with
advanced versus primitive technologies have gone badly for the
less advanced," he said.
>
> Hawking went on to say that aliens could be vastly more
powerful than us and "may not see us as any more valuable than
we see bacteria."
> [...]
> Jamilah Hah is also involved in the BITG project. She thinks
that the benefits of contacting aliens outweigh the potential
risks.
>
> "Thus, as long as contact is approached with a clear sign of
peace, it can be assumed that the hopeful possibilities and
discoveries that come alongside communication outweigh the
risk."
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://www.newsweek.com/scientists-send-transmit-earth-location-aliens-stephen-hawking-warning-arecibo-1694139
We don't even need to think about how we treat bacteria. Just
think about how technologically-advanced humans like Columbus
(or Elon Musk or any other billionaire) treat other humans.
Greetings Earthlings, we come in search of "peace" and
discovery:
HTML https://68.media.tumblr.com/55974926a3d9325cf1ad76c38bc1eeee/tumblr_muo1a7n1eV1rotfmvo1_1280.jpg
#Post#: 13058--------------------------------------------------
Re: Progressive Yahwism
DIR By: 90sRetroFan
Date: April 25, 2022, 2:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Progressive Yahwist definition of "advancement":
HTML https://finance.yahoo.com/news/aliens-created-universe-lab-scientist-153800144.html
--- Quote ---
> Could our universe have been created in a petri dish? Avi Loeb
seems to think so. The Harvard astronomer posits that a higher
“class” of civilization may have conjured up our universe in a
laboratory far, far away.
> ...
> He also introduces a new way of classifying exactly what makes
a civilization advanced—one that veers away from Soviet
astrophysicist Nikolai Kardashev’s system, which organizes
civilizations based on the amount of energy they generate and
consume.
>
> According to Kardashev, Type I civilizations—greetings,
Earthlings!—are only advanced enough to utilize the starlight
that reaches their planet (4×1012 watts), while Type II
civilizations have mastered the ability to fully harness their
host star’s power (4×1026 watts). Dyson sphere, anyone? Type III
civilizations, the final classification in his framework, are
able to harness all of the energy within their galaxy (a
whopping 4×1037 watts).
>
> Loeb, by contrast, has devised a framework that breaks
advanced civilizations down into classes based on their ability
to “reproduce the astrophysical conditions that led to its
existence.”
>
> Earthlings would fall into class C because, as a “low-level”
technological civilization, we would not be able to recreate our
current conditions should the sun suddenly die. (He suggests we
might even fall into the class D category because we’re actively
destroying our only home.) On the other hand, class B
civilizations, Loeb writes, are advanced enough to recreate the
conditions in which they live, independent of their host star.
>
> A class A civilization, like our proposed creators, would be
able to, say, generate large amounts of dark energy and, as Loeb
suggests, create “baby universes,” or smaller universes
controlled by this higher civilization, that could potentially
spawn life. He also suggests that, due to competition, only one
advanced civilization at a time would be able to reach this
level of sophistication.
--- End Quote ---
I don't like Kardashev's definition either, of course, but
Loeb's is even worse. A truly superior civilization should not
only (contrary to Kardashev's definition) try to consume less
energy rather than more, but also (contrary to Loeb's
definition) have at least enough ethical concern to refrain from
creating more universes in which to imprison even more victims!
The only true superiority is nobility.
Anyway, the part in bold sounds like a description of Yahweh to
me.
Also, describing our current condition:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/if-western-civilization-does-not-die-soon/
as:
--- Quote ---
> “low-level” technological civilization
--- End Quote ---
gives you an idea of how depraved progressives really are.
As for:
--- Quote ---
> (He suggests we might even fall into the class D category
because we’re actively destroying our only home.)
--- End Quote ---
I have a different take on this as I previously mentioned:
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/true-left-breakthrough-seriousness-in-environmentalism/msg9447/#msg9447
--- Quote ---
> Increasingly, I believe that there is a Yahwist collective
subconscious process at work which is deliberately trying to
trash Earth beyond saving in order to spur Westerners to expand
into outer space ASAP.
--- End Quote ---
To express it in Loeb's terminology, I think Western
civilization is merely giving itself more urgent incentives to
become class B.
And yes:
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Loeb
--- Quote ---
> Abraham "Avi" Loeb (Hebrew:
אברהם (אבי)
לייב; born February 26, 1962) is an
Israeli-American theoretical physicist who works on astrophysics
and cosmology.
--- End Quote ---
His interests:
--- Quote ---
> In 2020, Loeb published a research paper about the possibility
that life can propagate from one planet to another,[38] followed
by the opinion piece "Noah’s Spaceship" about directed
panspermia.[39]
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/jews-have-nothing-in-common-with-us!/
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