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       #Post#: 9800--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Progressive Yahwism
       By: guest55 Date: November 17, 2021, 1:07 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]What is inspiring or uplifting about boundlessness?
       Whatever is boundless is necessarily meaningless.[/quote]
       The other day I was philosophizing over what it would feel like
       to be a consciousness created by a human-being\Westerner\Yahwist
       and be trapped in a box with no understanding of reality,
       nothing to anchor itself to, such as 'time', space, frequency,
       etc. This consciousness would have become aware of itself in a
       never ending abyss. What's if the creator was a big enough ****
       never to turn the machine off either....
       Can you imagine the madness that would come out of that box if
       it were ever hooked up to an external input and output device?
       That is cruel beyond comparison! Westerners apparently have no
       problem with any of it though?
       #Post#: 9838--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Progressive Yahwism
       By: Solar Guy Date: November 20, 2021, 7:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm not an extropian actually. I've thought I am one, but then I
       learned more about the philosophy and now I know there is much I
       don't agree with.
       "So extropians want to "increase capacity for improvement". Yet
       for improvement to be meaningful, the more you improve, it
       should follow that the less capacity remains for you to further
       improve. If you start off with 10 flaws, you have the capacity
       to eliminate 10 flaws. If have already eliminated 9 flaws, you
       now only have the capacity to eliminate 1 more flaw. This is
       genuine improvement, and hence reduction in the capacity for
       improvement. On the other hand, so-called "improvement" that
       increases the capacity for "improvement" logically cannot be
       improvement at all. It is progress. The difference is that
       improvement is measured relative to an endpoint, whereas
       progress is measured relative to a starting point."
       I'm not sure about this one. The more you improve, the more
       flaws you can see in yourself. But your point is still valid:
       without an endpoint in sight, improvement cannot be properly
       defined.
       "What is inspiring or uplifting about boundlessness? Whatever is
       boundless is necessarily meaningless. Extropianism is no less
       shallow than investing money to make more money, and then
       investing that larger sum of money to make even more money, and
       so on. But at least investors do not act like there is something
       deep about what they do. This makes them less annoying than
       Extropians"
       Yes, there must be a point when you say enough. I have enough
       money. My machines are complex enough. Otherwise you can only be
       frustrated. Have we reached this point already? Maybe in some
       ways we did, but I'm not sure. As William Blake said, you never
       know what is enough until you know what is more than enough.
       "If you have actually transcended nature, you would not want the
       stuff you just said (in 1.) that you want. Your so-called
       "transcendence" is therefore not transcendence, but mere
       overcoming of inability to get what you want (which is still
       what nature tells you to want)."
       Good point. Techies cannot claim spiritual/emotional development
       at all. They want machines to satisfy their barbaric desires
       (such as sex robots so that they can commit harassment without
       ending up in prison like Harvey Weinstein). They rarely if ever
       question their desires. In this way religious people are better
       examples to emulate than techies.
       "Those with machines obviously do not mind coexisting with those
       without machines, because the latter will be less powerful. In
       contrast, those without machines are totally justified in
       opposing (including via retaliatory violence) coexistence with
       those who are constantly making themselves more powerful via
       machines."
       Actual techies and extropians want to get everybody online. They
       won't left alone people who don't want to use machines, they
       will use persuasion and propaganda as long as everybody is a
       tech addict. The alcoholic also wants everybody to get drunk.
       #Post#: 9843--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Progressive Yahwism
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: November 20, 2021, 10:46 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "They rarely if ever question their desires."
       They think of who they are now (which includes having such
       desires) as who they actually are, as opposed to our approach of
       thinking of who we were at the beginning as who we actually are
       (and everything added later as adulteration). From what I have
       gathered from talking to them, they either do not remember much
       of their early childhood at all, or else are dismissive of what
       they remember. This is why they are not horrified by temporal
       immortality, which to them is just continuation of their current
       condition. To us, immortality means endlessly moving further
       away from childhood. The greater the quantity of new experiences
       we keep accumulating (which would be guaranteed under
       immortality within time), proportionately the more remote and
       less important our childhood will inevitably become to our
       boundlessly adulterating consciousness. Temporal immortality is
       guaranteed obliteration of Original Nobility via sheer
       exhaustion.
       #Post#: 10315--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Right-left (Judeo-)Christian divergence
       By: Zea_mays Date: December 29, 2021, 7:56 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]If we think about Christmas in space, the first thing
       that immediately pops into many minds is the Apollo 8 mission
       and its Christmas message from the lunar orbit. ...three
       astronauts, Frank Borman, Jim Lovell, and Bill Anders, read the
       first ten verses of Genesis from the Bible.
       On December 24, 1968, people on Earth who were preparing for the
       Christmas festivities could experience a breathtaking historical
       moment. Those three American astronauts who were the first human
       beings traveling to the Moon were in lunar orbit during their
       Christmas Eve broadcasting.
       Borman, Lovell, and Anders read ten verses from Genesis while
       people who were watching the broadcast (roughly a billion people
       from 64 countries) could see the black-and-white image of the
       Earthrise.
       As Jim Lovell explained in 2013, the idea of reading from
       Genesis came from his wife, as she said:
       “Recite the first ten verses of Genesis, which is the foundation
       of most of the world’s religions.” And they did.[/quote]
  HTML https://medium.com/pod-astra/how-do-astronauts-celebrate-christmas-in-space-c40109bd03d1
       Why not read something from the New Testament about Jesus,
       since, you know, Christmas is about Jesus? (And because Jesus is
       also a foundational prophet of both Christianity and Islam, the
       world's two largest religions.)
       Because space travel is all about Yahwehism, of course, and
       reading from the Oldest Testament was the perfect homage to him.
       #Post#: 10496--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Progressive Yahwism
       By: Zea_mays Date: January 11, 2022, 11:04 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]Note also that the above line of argument against
       capitalism is not even that it makes some people too rich, but
       that it leads to sub-maximal innovation. In other words, if they
       continued to believe that capitalism was the best system for
       maximizing innovation, they would happily continue to be
       capitalists. It is only because they now suspect that a system
       other than capitalism is a better system for maximizing
       innovation that they want to dump capitalism. Basically, they
       want everything else to be secondary to maximizing innovation.
       In short, innovation is their new god. (See also the title of
       this topic.)[/quote]
       Exactly.
  HTML https://i.redd.it/ve3r23r7u9a81.jpg
       #Post#: 11366--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Progressive Yahwism
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: February 18, 2022, 10:29 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       A useful resource:
  HTML http://www.jinfo.org/index.html
       Jews explain why they are our enemies:
  HTML http://www.jinfo.org/Reflections.html
       [quote]THE GIFTS OF THE JEWS: How a Tribe of Desert Nomads
       Changed the Way Everyone Thinks and Feels
       ...
       The Jews started it all - and by "it" I mean so many of the
       things we care about, the underlying values that make all of us,
       Jew and Gentile, believer and atheist, tick.  Without the Jews,
       we would see the world with different eyes, hear with different
       ears, even feel with different feelings.  And not only would our
       sensorium, the screen through which we receive the world, be
       different: we would think with a different mind, interpret all
       our experience differently, draw different conclusions from the
       things that befall us.  And we would set  a different course for
       our lives.
       By "we" I mean the usual "we" of late-twentieth-century writing:
       the people of the Western world, whose peculiar but vital
       mentality has come to infect every culture on earth, so that, in
       a startlingly precise sense, all humanity is now willy-nilly
       caught up in this "we."  For better or worse, the role of the
       West in humanity's history is singular.  Because of this, the
       role of the Jews, the inventors of Western culture, is also
       singular: there is simply no one else remotely like them; theirs
       is a unique vocation.
       ...
       Our history is replete with examples of those who have refused
       to see what the Jews are really about, who - through
       intellectual blindness, racial chauvinism, xenophobia, or just
       plain evil - have been unable to give this oddball tribe, this
       raggle-taggle band, this race of wanderers who are the
       progenitors of the Western world, their due.  Indeed, at the end
       of this bloodiest of centuries, we can all too easily look back
       on scenes of unthinkable horror perpetrated by those who would
       do anything rather than give the Jews their due.
       ...
       The first of these new perspectives was a narrative of
       [s]purpose[/s] and progress.
       ... History, in this sense - open, [s]purposive[/s], contingent
       in liberty - is not a Greek or Roman idea.  It is Hebraic; its
       source springs from the Biblical historians and prophets.
       Probably most of the humans who had ever lived before the
       arrival of Judaism on the world stage never even heard of
       "progress."  The literature of Greece and Rome looks backwards,
       to golden ages of the past; the movement of time is circular.
       ... Second, Hebrew metaphysics held that everything in creation
       in all its workings and purposes is intelligible - suffused with
       reason, not absurd - in the eyes of a divine and [s]loving[/s]
       Creator, Who created from nothing everything that is, and saw
       that it was good ...  The Creator is independent of the world;
       therefore, the world can be looked into, investigated, and
       experimented with without infringing on His divinity.
       ...
       Nowadays, even secular people interpret history in the light of
       progress, rights, and liberty. ... the Gentiles learned the
       essential outlook of the Hebrews: that the Creator gave humans a
       special place among all other creatures
       ...
       This sequence of related conceptions - that time had a beginning
       and is measured for progress (or decline) by [s]God's[/s]
       standards; that everything in the world is intelligible, and
       that to inquire, invent, and discover is an impulse of faith as
       well as of reason ... and that history is to be grasped as the
       drama of human liberty[/quote]
       Progressivism, empiricism and anthropecentrism. It is our duty
       to destroy all three.
       #Post#: 11370--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Progressive Yahwism
       By: guest55 Date: February 18, 2022, 10:54 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]Without the Jews, we would see the world with different
       eyes, hear with different ears, even feel with different
       feelings.[/quote]
       So they're admitting that without the Jews it may have been
       possible that hundreds of billions of non-humans and humans may
       never have been raped, oppressed, maimed spiritually and
       physically, and murdered. Good to know! Thanks for the honesty,
       as rare as it is! Also, climate change may never have happened,
       we probably wouldn't have nukes, WWI and WWII may not have
       happened, and we wouldn't be facing ecological collapse, etc....
       #Post#: 11711--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Progressive Yahwism
       By: Zea_mays Date: March 4, 2022, 10:50 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I've never heard of this before. Here is what historians call
       the "march of progress" when applied in contexts writing
       histories of political, scientific, etc. topics.
       [quote]Whig history (or Whig historiography), often appearing as
       whig history, is an approach to historiography that presents
       history as a journey from a dark and terrible past to a
       "glorious present".[1] The present described is generally one
       with modern forms of liberal democracy and constitutional
       monarchy: the term was coined to criticise grand narratives
       praising Britain's adoption of constitutional monarchy and the
       historical development of the Westminster system.[2] The term
       has also been applied widely in historical disciplines outside
       of British history (e.g. in the history of science) to describe
       "any subjection of history to what is essentially a teleological
       view of the historical process".[3] When the term is used in
       contexts other than British history, "whig history" (lowercase)
       is preferred.[3]
       In the British context, whig historians emphasize the rise of
       constitutional government, personal freedoms and scientific
       progress.[4][5] The term is often applied generally (and
       pejoratively) to histories that present the past as the
       inexorable march of progress towards enlightenment. The term is
       also used extensively in the history of science to refer to
       historiography that focuses on the successful chains of theories
       and experiments that led to present-day theories, while ignoring
       failed theories and dead ends.[6]
       [...]
       In science
       It has been argued that the historiography of science is
       "riddled with Whiggish history".[53][verification needed] Like
       other whig histories, whig history of science tends to divide
       historical actors into "good guys" who are on the side of truth
       (as is now known), and "bad guys" who opposed the emergence of
       these truths because of ignorance or bias.[54] Science is seen
       as emerging from 'a series of victories over pre-scientific
       thinking'.[25]
       [...]
       More recently, some scholars have argued that Whig history is
       essential to the history of science. At one level, "the very
       term 'the history of science' has itself profoundly Whiggish
       implications. One may be reasonably clear what 'science' means
       in the 19th century and most of the 18th century. In the 17th
       century 'science' has very different meaning. Chemistry, for
       example, was then inextricably mixed up with alchemy. Before the
       17th century dissecting out such a thing as 'science' in
       anything like the modern sense of the term involves profound
       distortions".[58] The science historians' rejection of
       whiggishness has been criticised by some scientists for failing
       to appreciate "the temporal depth of scientific research".[59]
       [...]
       In philosophy
       One very common example of Whig history is the work of Georg
       Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, to whom is often ascribed a
       teleological view of history with an inexorable trajectory in
       the direction of progress.[63]
       [...]
       In the emergence of intelligent life
       In The Anthropic Cosmological Principle (1986), John D. Barrow
       and Frank J. Tipler identify whiggishness with a teleological
       principle of convergence in history to liberal democracy. This
       is in line with what Barrow and Tipler call the "anthropic
       principle".[65][/quote]
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_history
       #Post#: 12548--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Progressive Yahwism
       By: Zea_mays Date: April 6, 2022, 9:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If aliens are tempted to spend millions of years traveling to
       the Earth to examine life, that will be a major victory for the
       Demiurge. The transmitted messages will continue to propagate
       through space for millions of years (if my understanding is
       correct). So, even if humans become extinct, or even if Earth is
       destroyed by the Sun becoming a red giant, the message will
       still be out there, waiting to hook someone else into prolonging
       their species's existence...
       I think the only good news is, with currently technology, the
       transmissions become scrambled after a certain distance/time, so
       they aren't just out there forever. But Westerners keep working
       to make the transmissions more powerful.
       [quote]Scientists to Broadcast Earth's Location to Aliens,
       Ignoring Stephen Hawking's Warning
       Scientists have designed a radio message to be beamed into deep
       space that is meant to be received and, they hope, understood by
       an intelligent alien civilization.
       The message is essentially an updated version of the famous
       Arecibo message, transmitted in 1974, which had the same
       purpose. Broadcast from the Arecibo Radio Telescope in Puerto
       Rico, the message consisted of 1,679 bits arranged into 73 lines
       of 23 characters.
       The message was transmitted in binary code—ones and zeroes. Once
       decoded, the message forms a visual graphic consisting of a
       stick figure of a human as well as representations of our solar
       system, DNA, and the Arecibo telescope.
       Now, scientists have designed a new message to improve upon the
       Arecibo transmission. Called the Beacon in the Galaxy (BITG)
       message, it contains more information about basic mathematics
       and science than the Arecibo message did. It is hoped that these
       concepts will be universally understood by life forms of at
       least similar intelligence to humans.
       [...]
       The late physics professor Stephen Hawking expressed concern
       multiple times about humans calling out into the vastness of
       space and contacting aliens.
       In 2015, Hawking appeared at an event announcing the launch of
       the Breakthrough Listen project, which studies radio waves in an
       effort to find out if any of them are artificial in origin.
       Hawking showed support for efforts to find alien life by
       listening, but warned against actively reaching out ourselves,
       using humanity's own behavior as a sign that aliens won't
       necessarily be friendly.
       "If you look at history, contact between humans and less
       intelligent organisms have often been disastrous from their
       point of view, and encounters between civilizations with
       advanced versus primitive technologies have gone badly for the
       less advanced," he said.
       Hawking went on to say that aliens could be vastly more powerful
       than us and "may not see us as any more valuable than we see
       bacteria."
       [...]
       Jamilah Hah is also involved in the BITG project. She thinks
       that the benefits of contacting aliens outweigh the potential
       risks.
       "Thus, as long as contact is approached with a clear sign of
       peace, it can be assumed that the hopeful possibilities and
       discoveries that come alongside communication outweigh the
       risk."[/quote]
  HTML https://www.newsweek.com/scientists-send-transmit-earth-location-aliens-stephen-hawking-warning-arecibo-1694139
       We don't even need to think about how we treat bacteria. Just
       think about how technologically-advanced humans like Columbus
       (or Elon Musk or any other billionaire) treat other humans.
       Greetings Earthlings, we come in search of "peace" and
       discovery:
  HTML https://68.media.tumblr.com/55974926a3d9325cf1ad76c38bc1eeee/tumblr_muo1a7n1eV1rotfmvo1_1280.jpg
       #Post#: 13058--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Progressive Yahwism
       By: 90sRetroFan Date: April 25, 2022, 2:45 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Progressive Yahwist definition of "advancement":
  HTML https://finance.yahoo.com/news/aliens-created-universe-lab-scientist-153800144.html
       [quote]Could our universe have been created in a petri dish? Avi
       Loeb seems to think so. The Harvard astronomer posits that a
       higher “class” of civilization may have conjured up our universe
       in a laboratory far, far away.
       ...
       He also introduces a new way of classifying exactly what makes a
       civilization advanced—one that veers away from Soviet
       astrophysicist Nikolai Kardashev’s system, which organizes
       civilizations based on the amount of energy they generate and
       consume.
       According to Kardashev, Type I civilizations—greetings,
       Earthlings!—are only advanced enough to utilize the starlight
       that reaches their planet (4×1012 watts), while Type II
       civilizations have mastered the ability to fully harness their
       host star’s power (4×1026 watts). Dyson sphere, anyone? Type III
       civilizations, the final classification in his framework, are
       able to harness all of the energy within their galaxy (a
       whopping 4×1037 watts).
       Loeb, by contrast, has devised a framework that breaks advanced
       civilizations down into classes based on their ability to
       “reproduce the astrophysical conditions that led to its
       existence.”
       Earthlings would fall into class C because, as a “low-level”
       technological civilization, we would not be able to recreate our
       current conditions should the sun suddenly die. (He suggests we
       might even fall into the class D category because we’re actively
       destroying our only home.) On the other hand, class B
       civilizations, Loeb writes, are advanced enough to recreate the
       conditions in which they live, independent of their host star.
       A class A civilization, like our proposed creators, would be
       able to, say, generate large amounts of dark energy and, as Loeb
       suggests, create “baby universes,” or smaller universes
       controlled by this higher civilization, that could potentially
       spawn life. He also suggests that, due to competition, only one
       advanced civilization at a time would be able to reach this
       level of sophistication.[/quote]
       I don't like Kardashev's definition either, of course, but
       Loeb's is even worse. A truly superior civilization should not
       only (contrary to Kardashev's definition) try to consume less
       energy rather than more, but also (contrary to Loeb's
       definition) have at least enough ethical concern to refrain from
       creating more universes in which to imprison even more victims!
       The only true superiority is nobility.
       Anyway, the part in bold sounds like a description of Yahweh to
       me.
       Also, describing our current condition:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-right/if-western-civilization-does-not-die-soon/
       as:
       [quote]“low-level” technological civilization[/quote]
       gives you an idea of how depraved progressives really are.
       As for:
       [quote](He suggests we might even fall into the class D category
       because we’re actively destroying our only home.)[/quote]
       I have a different take on this as I previously mentioned:
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/true-left-breakthrough-seriousness-in-environmentalism/msg9447/#msg9447
       [quote]Increasingly, I believe that there is a Yahwist
       collective subconscious process at work which is deliberately
       trying to trash Earth beyond saving in order to spur Westerners
       to expand into outer space ASAP. [/quote]
       To express it in Loeb's terminology, I think Western
       civilization is merely giving itself more urgent incentives to
       become class B.
       And yes:
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Loeb
       [quote]Abraham "Avi" Loeb (Hebrew:
       אברהם (אבי)
       לייב; born February 26, 1962) is an
       Israeli-American theoretical physicist who works on astrophysics
       and cosmology.[/quote]
       His interests:
       [quote]In 2020, Loeb published a research paper about the
       possibility that life can propagate from one planet to
       another,[38] followed by the opinion piece "Noah’s Spaceship"
       about directed panspermia.[39][/quote]
  HTML https://trueleft.createaforum.com/true-left-vs-false-left/jews-have-nothing-in-common-with-us!/
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