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#Post#: 3264--------------------------------------------------
Re: What needs doing to the Knockout division?
DIR By: ChrissiCalvert
Date: September 9, 2012, 6:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I know she was only with TNA for a few weeks, but i liked Toxxin
(Christina von Eerie)
#Post#: 3270--------------------------------------------------
Re: What needs doing to the Knockout division?
DIR By: Sel
Date: September 9, 2012, 7:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
There needs to be an assertive mentality in TNA again. The thing
that made the KOs amazing was that they were wrestlers, no
matter how they looked. When they got in that ring, you knew we
were about to see a match, not, what I like to call, 'softporn
eye candy'. They're not cheerleaders there to break up the male
matches and give the men something oggle. They were there to
demonstrate they could make a match, regardless of their
popularity as good looking.
I'm going to be frank, because that's pretty much what I do.
Things began to go downhill more and more when Velvet Sky became
a singles wrestler pushed because fans loved her. Why did they
love her? Sure as heck wasn't because of her story when she went
into a singles wrestler and did the whole 'I was bullied' thing.
It was because she was hot, and this went against her, because
when she was in a tag team, she was the hot one who was also a
ruthless bitch, and people loved that sassy, vicious attitude.
When she dropped the attitude, it left something weak as a
persona, and just left her with looks. She wasn't astounding in
the ring. In fact, looking back at her history, she was better
earlier on. But the Beautiful People gimmick won people over.
TNA's decision to then push this weaker character, with not the
greatest moves but the ability to flaunt her assets began the
road towards the Divas style of wrestling.
Actually, no, it was before that, when Lacey Von Eric, who by
her own admission was shit in the ring, turned up. She did the
best thing ever in saying she was going to concentrate on other
aspects as she didn't believe she was a wrestler. But it was too
late, we still have a fan base crying for her to return. Why?
Looks. It can be dressed up anyway someone wishes to use, but I
have a keen interest in psychology, and anyone with a clinical
scientific eye could see that.
People recall my opinion on Brooke Tessmacher when she came in.
I didn't think she was much in the ring at the time. She was
working hard, sure, but it wasn't enough. Then she did all the
Hooters promos and again, fan base grew based on how she looked.
What did TNA do? They pushed her. Step two towards the Divas.
I still don't rate Mickie James much either. I think she was
B-List material in the WWE, and when she hit the TNA she was
made out to be A-List, and then had some of the sloppiest
matches around, which to me, was just insulting. No denying she
had moves, but if you are the best there is, or made out to be
the best there is, you don't make mistakes.
Meanwhile, the ones that were known for their skills were being
left behind. Sarita drifted off the scene. Winter disappears
even though we were all sure she was more than eye candy.
Angelina certainly was more wrestler than anything else. ODB,
Kong, Dafney and the like had all paved the way for brutality
over beauty. Not to take anything away from their own looks,
just they had made things solid. Tara still kicks arse, and I
know Steve would call her a drag queen so we know it wasn't just
her looks ;)
Anyhow, that's my analysis of what went wrong. So what next?
Brooke Tessmacher is becoming a more believable champion and
seeing her against Tara is a great step forwards. Forget outside
the ring pageants and all that bullshit, this is about the
wrestling. Bring back Sarita, the girl is talented in the ring.
Make that hardline decision that it is not about how much the
fans want to see a girl half naked and support her, but instead
about the fans wanting to see real moves in that ring. Begin
looking around at the independant circuits, look for those with
amazing moves that will make people sit up and say 'holy crap,
that was awesome'. Give them some strong storylines but don't
cramp their own creativity. Just hint, nudge, discuss with them
what works in a story but do not take away their in ring style.
Get rid of this mentality of 'oh you were in the WWE, so that
makes you instantly a star here'. That's just nonsense, as TNA
need to realise that THEY are a federation, with their OWN
stars, and not just looking up humbly to WWE hoping they'll drop
a scrap to them. They need to have the backbone to say 'you know
what, your performance in that ring wasn't good, so we're not
pushing you' rather than 'well, you have a nice butt and fans
think so' or 'we paid a lot of money for you because of your
history'.
TNA really REALLY need to realise the amazing opportunity to
beat the WWE they have, and that's by having pure, wrestling
talent on their show, the type that will attract appreciative
fans who are hungering for the skills they know women
competitors possess just as much as any male. If they can make
that hard decision and aim directly for that, they'll have an
unbeatable televised division, the likes of which will draw a
crowd as it was doing up until recently.
That's my ten pence worth anyhow.
#Post#: 3271--------------------------------------------------
Re: What needs doing to the Knockout division?
DIR By: Sel
Date: September 9, 2012, 7:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Oh, yeah. The departures. Losing Winter sucks, because we wanted
to see how she could bloom. Angelina, disappointing, as she had
just found her hardline arse kicker role. Velvet Sky...I'm a
fan, but again, tBP only. I don't actually think it's all that
bad that she left. Now they can begin using the KOs they're not
using and start looking with that hardline approach I mentioned
above with a long term goal and a back bone instead of short
term panic.
#Post#: 3291--------------------------------------------------
Re: What needs doing to the Knockout division?
DIR By: tnafanforum
Date: September 10, 2012, 3:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Sel link ---
>
> There needs to be an assertive mentality in TNA again. The
thing that made the KOs amazing was that they were wrestlers, no
matter how they looked. When they got in that ring, you knew we
were about to see a match, not, what I like to call, 'soft****
eye candy'. They're not cheerleaders there to break up the male
matches and give the men something oggle. They were there to
demonstrate they could make a match, regardless of their
popularity as good looking.
>
> I'm going to be frank, because that's pretty much what I do.
Things began to go downhill more and more when Velvet Sky became
a singles wrestler pushed because fans loved her. Why did they
love her? Sure as heck wasn't because of her story when she went
into a singles wrestler and did the whole 'I was bullied' thing.
It was because she was hot, and this went against her, because
when she was in a tag team, she was the hot one who was also a
ruthless ****, and people loved that sassy, vicious attitude.
When she dropped the attitude, it left something weak as a
persona, and just left her with looks. She wasn't astounding in
the ring. In fact, looking back at her history, she was better
earlier on. But the Beautiful People gimmick won people over.
TNA's decision to then push this weaker character, with not the
greatest moves but the ability to flaunt her assets began the
road towards the Divas style of wrestling.
>
> Actually, no, it was before that, when Lacey Von Eric, who by
her own admission was **** in the ring, turned up. She did the
best thing ever in saying she was going to concentrate on other
aspects as she didn't believe she was a wrestler. But it was too
late, we still have a fan base crying for her to return. Why?
Looks. It can be dressed up anyway someone wishes to use, but I
have a keen interest in psychology, and anyone with a clinical
scientific eye could see that.
>
> People recall my opinion on Brooke Tessmacher when she came
in. I didn't think she was much in the ring at the time. She was
working hard, sure, but it wasn't enough. Then she did all the
Hooters promos and again, fan base grew based on how she looked.
What did TNA do? They pushed her. Step two towards the Divas.
>
> I still don't rate Mickie James much either. I think she was
B-List material in the WWE, and when she hit the TNA she was
made out to be A-List, and then had some of the sloppiest
matches around, which to me, was just insulting. No denying she
had moves, but if you are the best there is, or made out to be
the best there is, you don't make mistakes.
>
> Meanwhile, the ones that were known for their skills were
being left behind. Sarita drifted off the scene. Winter
disappears even though we were all sure she was more than eye
candy. Angelina certainly was more wrestler than anything else.
ODB, Kong, Dafney and the like had all paved the way for
brutality over beauty. Not to take anything away from their own
looks, just they had made things solid. Tara still kicks arse,
and I know Steve would call her a drag queen so we know it
wasn't just her looks ;)
>
> Anyhow, that's my analysis of what went wrong. So what next?
>
> Brooke Tessmacher is becoming a more believable champion and
seeing her against Tara is a great step forwards. Forget outside
the ring pageants and all that bull****, this is about the
wrestling. Bring back Sarita, the girl is talented in the ring.
Make that hardline decision that it is not about how much the
fans want to see a girl half naked and support her, but instead
about the fans wanting to see real moves in that ring. Begin
looking around at the independant circuits, look for those with
amazing moves that will make people sit up and say 'holy crap,
that was awesome'. Give them some strong storylines but don't
cramp their own creativity. Just hint, nudge, discuss with them
what works in a story but do not take away their in ring style.
Get rid of this mentality of 'oh you were in the WWE, so that
makes you instantly a star here'. That's just nonsense, as TNA
need to realise that THEY are a federation, with their OWN
stars, and not just looking up humbly to WWE hoping they'll drop
a scrap to them. They need to have the backbone to say 'you know
what, your performance in that ring wasn't good, so we're not
pushing you' rather than 'well, you have a nice butt and fans
think so' or 'we paid a lot of money for you because of your
history'.
>
> TNA really REALLY need to realise the amazing opportunity to
beat the WWE they have, and that's by having pure, wrestling
talent on their show, the type that will attract appreciative
fans who are hungering for the skills they know women
competitors possess just as much as any male. If they can make
that hard decision and aim directly for that, they'll have an
unbeatable televised division, the likes of which will draw a
crowd as it was doing up until recently.
>
> That's my ten pence worth anyhow.
>
--- End Quote ---
yer that is true mate you have said iit how it is mate :) :)
#Post#: 3332--------------------------------------------------
Re: What needs doing to the Knockout division?
DIR By: Steve B
Date: September 10, 2012, 12:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Sel link ---
>
> There needs to be an assertive mentality in TNA again. The
thing that made the KOs amazing was that they were wrestlers, no
matter how they looked. When they got in that ring, you knew we
were about to see a match, not, what I like to call, 'soft****
eye candy'. They're not cheerleaders there to break up the male
matches and give the men something oggle. They were there to
demonstrate they could make a match, regardless of their
popularity as good looking.
>
> I'm going to be frank, because that's pretty much what I do.
Things began to go downhill more and more when Velvet Sky became
a singles wrestler pushed because fans loved her. Why did they
love her? Sure as heck wasn't because of her story when she went
into a singles wrestler and did the whole 'I was bullied' thing.
It was because she was hot, and this went against her, because
when she was in a tag team, she was the hot one who was also a
ruthless ****, and people loved that sassy, vicious attitude.
When she dropped the attitude, it left something weak as a
persona, and just left her with looks. She wasn't astounding in
the ring. In fact, looking back at her history, she was better
earlier on. But the Beautiful People gimmick won people over.
TNA's decision to then push this weaker character, with not the
greatest moves but the ability to flaunt her assets began the
road towards the Divas style of wrestling.
>
> Actually, no, it was before that, when Lacey Von Eric, who by
her own admission was **** in the ring, turned up. She did the
best thing ever in saying she was going to concentrate on other
aspects as she didn't believe she was a wrestler. But it was too
late, we still have a fan base crying for her to return. Why?
Looks. It can be dressed up anyway someone wishes to use, but I
have a keen interest in psychology, and anyone with a clinical
scientific eye could see that.
>
> People recall my opinion on Brooke Tessmacher when she came
in. I didn't think she was much in the ring at the time. She was
working hard, sure, but it wasn't enough. Then she did all the
Hooters promos and again, fan base grew based on how she looked.
What did TNA do? They pushed her. Step two towards the Divas.
>
> I still don't rate Mickie James much either. I think she was
B-List material in the WWE, and when she hit the TNA she was
made out to be A-List, and then had some of the sloppiest
matches around, which to me, was just insulting. No denying she
had moves, but if you are the best there is, or made out to be
the best there is, you don't make mistakes.
>
> Meanwhile, the ones that were known for their skills were
being left behind. Sarita drifted off the scene. Winter
disappears even though we were all sure she was more than eye
candy. Angelina certainly was more wrestler than anything else.
ODB, Kong, Dafney and the like had all paved the way for
brutality over beauty. Not to take anything away from their own
looks, just they had made things solid. Tara still kicks arse,
and I know Steve would call her a drag queen so we know it
wasn't just her looks ;)
>
> Anyhow, that's my analysis of what went wrong. So what next?
>
> Brooke Tessmacher is becoming a more believable champion and
seeing her against Tara is a great step forwards. Forget outside
the ring pageants and all that bull****, this is about the
wrestling. Bring back Sarita, the girl is talented in the ring.
Make that hardline decision that it is not about how much the
fans want to see a girl half naked and support her, but instead
about the fans wanting to see real moves in that ring. Begin
looking around at the independant circuits, look for those with
amazing moves that will make people sit up and say 'holy crap,
that was awesome'. Give them some strong storylines but don't
cramp their own creativity. Just hint, nudge, discuss with them
what works in a story but do not take away their in ring style.
Get rid of this mentality of 'oh you were in the WWE, so that
makes you instantly a star here'. That's just nonsense, as TNA
need to realise that THEY are a federation, with their OWN
stars, and not just looking up humbly to WWE hoping they'll drop
a scrap to them. They need to have the backbone to say 'you know
what, your performance in that ring wasn't good, so we're not
pushing you' rather than 'well, you have a nice butt and fans
think so' or 'we paid a lot of money for you because of your
history'.
>
> TNA really REALLY need to realise the amazing opportunity to
beat the WWE they have, and that's by having pure, wrestling
talent on their show, the type that will attract appreciative
fans who are hungering for the skills they know women
competitors possess just as much as any male. If they can make
that hard decision and aim directly for that, they'll have an
unbeatable televised division, the likes of which will draw a
crowd as it was doing up until recently.
>
> That's my ten pence worth anyhow.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'll agree with a lot of what my learned colleague says but
theres some I don't necessarily agree with.
In a nutshell if you don't have good writing you don't have
anything and the knockout division doesn't have good writing and
rarely has had. Its a testament to the pure talent of the
individual people within it as to how watchable the division has
been because for most of it the writing has been awful to none
existent.
There was a point where the KD was streets ahead of the Divas in
pure fighting ability and there was diversity in who we were
seeing every week. Who remember Alyssa Flash? Sojo Bolt?
Jacqueline? And Raka Khan? all interesting and different
characters and all could to one degree or another mix it up and
fight. Then gradually it got narrowed down to just a few, and it
got less interesting. The Brood-Lite story line and splitting up
tBP was a genuinely good, clever and interesting bit of writing.
I have plenty of time for Winter, shes always been a talent and
her character could have done good things but the writing just
stopped and that storyline just fizzled out.
Then they bring back James and Kim from New York and immediately
the rest of the girls who've worked hard are supposed to make
room and allow them title shot after title shot and TV time just
because they've been in WWE. Why? They are no better and are
actually less interesting than whats been happening in the
division. It makes no sense.
However, this is just complaining. How do we fix it? Simple. The
KD needs a dedicated writer. It needs to be planned and written
and it needs input from the girls themselves and it needs the
full breadth and width of the roster not just the same 4 girls
week in week out. Also stop looking to New York to provide
talent. Make talent. Do it the Heyman way. TNA cannot compete
with WWE. Therefore it has to make the best of what it can do,
find the talent, nurture it, like what it did in the early days.
Kong and Velvet didn't came from WWE. There'll be other women
who aren't in WWE who can be huge stars. Find them. That said
Nattie Neidhart is reported to be unhappy, shes absolute talent
so go and get her!
#Post#: 3336--------------------------------------------------
Re: What needs doing to the Knockout division?
DIR By: Sel
Date: September 10, 2012, 1:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Steve B link ---
>
> However, this is just complaining. How do we fix it? Simple.
The KD needs a dedicated writer. It needs to be planned and
written and it needs input from the girls themselves and it
needs the full breadth and width of the roster not just the same
4 girls week in week out. Also stop looking to New York to
provide talent. Make talent. Do it the Heyman way. TNA cannot
compete with WWE. Therefore it has to make the best of what it
can do, find the talent, nurture it, like what it did in the
early days. Kong and Velvet didn't came from WWE. There'll be
other women who aren't in WWE who can be huge stars. Find them.
That said Nattie Neidhart is reported to be unhappy, shes
absolute talent so go and get her!
>
--- End Quote ---
He speaketh the truth. Don't look for the flash in the pans now,
but invest in the supernovas of the future. And love the idea of
a dedicated writer.
#Post#: 3338--------------------------------------------------
Re: What needs doing to the Knockout division?
DIR By: tnafanforum
Date: September 10, 2012, 1:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
yer steve is good and talking to truth :) he is the master of
the site lol :P ;D
#Post#: 3339--------------------------------------------------
Re: What needs doing to the Knockout division?
DIR By: Steve B
Date: September 10, 2012, 2:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TNA Fan Forum link ---
>
> yer steve is good and talking to truth :) he is the master of
the site lol :P ;D
>
--- End Quote ---
(king) (loveshower) (love1) tish pshaw and nonsense. You
asked, I answered. I could ramble on a bit more but i'd get
boring.
I believe in the girls skirt theory of forum posting.
long enough to cover everything, short enough to keep people
interested!
#Post#: 3346--------------------------------------------------
Re: What needs doing to the Knockout division?
DIR By: tnafanforum
Date: September 10, 2012, 2:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Steve B link ---
>
> [quote author=TNA Fan Forum link=topic=450.msg3338#msg3338
date=1347303307]
> yer steve is good and talking to truth :) he is the master of
the site lol :P ;D
>
--- End Quote ---
(king) (loveshower) (love1) tish pshaw and nonsense. You
asked, I answered. I could ramble on a bit more but i'd get
boring.
I believe in the girls skirt theory of forum posting.
long enough to cover everything, short enough to keep people
interested!
[/quote]
you have some good posters and some what make you think whats
good to read ;D
#Post#: 3414--------------------------------------------------
Re: What needs doing to the Knockout division?
DIR By: EnigmaMinded
Date: September 11, 2012, 12:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If KOs keep leaving we are going to need more female talent. I
hope there is a search taking place. I'll even take some of the
past talent returning. Let's build the KO division.
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