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#Post#: 12557--------------------------------------------------
Hobby Lobby/Contraception Coverage/Supreme Court
DIR By: ecsmith2
Date: March 25, 2014, 9:30 am
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This should prove to be an interesting distraction from the
missing airliner.
A couple of things come to mind. The people running this
corporation have included in their deeply held religious beliefs
that man should not kill. I don't see them fighting the
government to stop the death penalty or the killing of
individuals with drones, or the spending of their tax money to
do so.
Another thing, people usually form corporations to protect their
personal assets from being lost because of the actions of the
corporation. How come there is this protection of their
tangible assets when this does not protect their intangible
immortal souls?
And are they going to be able to actually show, for a change,
that contraceptive coverage actually does cause them sin? Will
they be able to show us how much sin it will cause?
#Post#: 12562--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hobby Lobby/Contraception Coverage/Supreme Court
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: March 25, 2014, 11:00 am
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--- Quote ---
>
> A couple of things come to mind. The people running this
corporation have included in their deeply held religious beliefs
that man should not kill. I don't see them fighting the
government to stop the death penalty or the killing of
individuals with drones, or the spending of their tax money to
do so.
--- End Quote ---
Another great example of one having nothing to do with the
other, unless Hobby Lobby is selling kits to build armed drones.
#Post#: 12563--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hobby Lobby/Contraception Coverage/Supreme Court
DIR By: p2_d
Date: March 25, 2014, 11:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ecsmith2 link ---
>
> This should prove to be an interesting distraction from the
missing airliner.
>
> A couple of things come to mind. The people running this
corporation have included in their deeply held religious beliefs
that man should not kill. I don't see them fighting the
government to stop the death penalty or the killing of
individuals with drones, or the spending of their tax money to
do so.
>
> Another thing, people usually form corporations to protect
their personal assets from being lost because of the actions of
the corporation. How come there is this protection of their
tangible assets when this does not protect their intangible
immortal souls?
>
> And are they going to be able to actually show, for a change,
that contraceptive coverage actually does cause them sin? Will
they be able to show us how much sin it will cause?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
And yet again an apples to cars comparison. Hobby Lobby is
fighting not to pay for Health Insurance Coverage for its
employees for procedures which violate the owners religious
beliefs. Perhaps if you could show where the David Green has
said the tax dollars that his company generates should not be
used to pay for Health care that he finds objectionable you
might have a point. I have not seen or heard that said but maybe
you could provide a link where you can prove that claim. Or
maybe you had it and you cant find it right now LOL
Or maybe once again you are flip flopping and saying that what
the ACA is really is a tax. Who knows what you mean.
#Post#: 12565--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hobby Lobby/Contraception Coverage/Supreme Court
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: March 25, 2014, 12:27 pm
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The government forcibly taking your money through taxation is
no different than the government forcibly taking your money
through the ACA. (and yeah, it's already been deemed a "tax",
which is why it's constitutional)
That said, Catholic groups DO oppose wars, torture, drone
attacks and such. This isn't an inconsistent action. It may
not be a legal action though. While churches are clearly
protected, this is not a church but a secular business run by a
person with a particular set of beliefs.
Individual beliefs are protected to the extent that they do not
interfere with another's personal beliefs or rights. Thus the
legal question here, about who gets to impose what on who.
Catholics also oppose many components of Capitalism and large
portions of the Republican economic platform, if their beliefs
are suddenly of supreme importance.
#Post#: 12567--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hobby Lobby/Contraception Coverage/Supreme Court
DIR By: p2_d
Date: March 25, 2014, 1:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
>
> The government forcibly taking your money through taxation is
no different than the government forcibly taking your money
through the ACA. (and yeah, it's already been deemed a "tax",
which is why it's constitutional)
> That said, Catholic groups DO oppose wars, torture, drone
attacks and such. This isn't an inconsistent action. It may
not be a legal action though. While churches are clearly
protected, this is not a church but a secular business run by a
person with a particular set of beliefs.
> Individual beliefs are protected to the extent that they do
not interfere with another's personal beliefs or rights. Thus
the legal question here, about who gets to impose what on who.
>
> Catholics also oppose many components of Capitalism and large
portions of the Republican economic platform, if their beliefs
are suddenly of supreme importance.
>
--- End Quote ---
I know it wasn't a tax till it needed to be a tax. Just one of
the many contradictory things we have been told about the ACA.
#Post#: 12569--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hobby Lobby/Contraception Coverage/Supreme Court
DIR By: ecsmith2
Date: March 25, 2014, 2:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
>
> Another great example of one having nothing to do with the
other, unless Hobby Lobby is selling kits to build armed drones.
>
--- End Quote ---
There is already a law preventing the federal government from
spending any tax money on abortions because of some peoples'
religious views against abortion. They now want to not follow
the law allowing those with religious beliefs to use
contraception to not allow them the process to use it through
their employer based insurance because the religious beliefs of
the employer. The same thing.
The government spends tax money killing people with drones. The
Hobby Lobby people, as part of their "deeply held" religious
beliefs, are against killing (Thou shalt not kill.), but
apparently that religious belief is not so deeply held to keep
their tax money from being spent on it.
How are only some of their religious beliefs "deeply held"?
#Post#: 12570--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hobby Lobby/Contraception Coverage/Supreme Court
DIR By: ecsmith2
Date: March 25, 2014, 2:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: p2_d link ---
>
>
> And yet again an apples to cars comparison. Hobby Lobby is
fighting not to pay for Health Insurance Coverage for its
employees for procedures which violate the owners religious
beliefs. Perhaps if you could show where the David Green has
said the tax dollars that his company generates should not be
used to pay for Health care that he finds objectionable you
might have a point. I have not seen or heard that said but maybe
you could provide a link where you can prove that claim. Or
maybe you had it and you cant find it right now LOL
>
> Or maybe once again you are flip flopping and saying that what
the ACA is really is a tax. Who knows what you mean.
>
--- End Quote ---
I didn't say the PPACA was a tax. I only look like I am
flip-flopping because you change what I really said. Easy for
you to be right when you make up stuff.
It is a law requiring them to do something they don't want to do
based on their religious belief. That is another detail that
they cannot support. Providing coverage for something in a
policy does not constitute using that procedure or drug. A
whole convent of nuns could have contraception coverage in their
insurance policy, and if none of the nuns use any contraception,
there is no immorality.
These same religious people have gotten a law passed to not
allow any federal tax money, not just their tax money, to be
used for abortions, because abortions are against their
religious beliefs.
Are you saying that the Hobby Lobby people are ignoring one of
their commandments from God, and don't care that their tax money
is being used to kill? And why can tax money, or laws be
created that they say violate their beliefs when other beliefs
are violated with tax money and laws?
#Post#: 12575--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hobby Lobby/Contraception Coverage/Supreme Court
DIR By: p2_d
Date: March 25, 2014, 3:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ecsmith2 link ---
>
>
> I didn't say the PPACA was a tax. I only look like I am
flip-flopping because you change what I really said. Easy for
you to be right when you make up stuff.
>
> It is a law requiring them to do something they don't want to
do based on their religious belief. That is another detail that
they cannot support. Providing coverage for something in a
policy does not constitute using that procedure or drug. A
whole convent of nuns could have contraception coverage in their
insurance policy, and if none of the nuns use any contraception,
there is no immorality.
>
> These same religious people have gotten a law passed to not
allow any federal tax money, not just their tax money, to be
used for abortions, because abortions are against their
religious beliefs.
>
> Are you saying that the Hobby Lobby people are ignoring one of
their commandments from God, and don't care that their tax money
is being used to kill? And why can tax money, or laws be
created that they say violate their beliefs when other beliefs
are violated with tax money and laws?
>
>
--- End Quote ---
No I am not, but you are and you offer no proof to substantiate
your claim. Or maybe like another time you had it but can't find
it right now. Please carry on chasing your tail its quite
entertaining (at least for a while, then you bore me and Ill
ignore you again)
Have a nice day ;D :D ;) :) :o :P :-* :'( :-* :'( :-*
#Post#: 12579--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hobby Lobby/Contraception Coverage/Supreme Court
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: March 25, 2014, 4:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> They now want to not follow the law allowing those with
religious beliefs to use contraception to not allow them the
process to use it through their employer based insurance because
the religious beliefs of the employer. The same thing.
--- End Quote ---
Your statement above is once again grossly incorrect. Hobby
Lobby doesn't wish to deny their employees contraception.
Perhaps you should read up on a topic before starting a thread
on it.
--- Quote ---
> The owners of Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood Specialties don't
have a problem with offering insurance that covers most forms of
birth control, but they aren't willing to cover emergency
contraceptives — like Plan B or ella -- or IUDs. Hobby Lobby
contends its "religious beliefs prohibit them from providing
health coverage for contraceptive drugs and devices that end
human life after conception."
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/03/24/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-hobby-lobby-case/
There's also the question as to why some groups are exempt (Non
profits for example even though some do make a profit) and
others aren't. But I guess it's much easier to regurgitate
talking points than to actually read up on a topic.
#Post#: 12580--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hobby Lobby/Contraception Coverage/Supreme Court
DIR By: ecsmith2
Date: March 25, 2014, 5:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: p2_d link ---
>
> No I am not, but you are and you offer no proof to
substantiate your claim. Or maybe like another time you had it
but can't find it right now. Please carry on chasing your tail
its quite entertaining (at least for a while, then you bore me
and Ill ignore you again)
>
> Have a nice day ;D :D ;) :) :o :P :-* :'( :-* :'( :-*
>
--- End Quote ---
If they are not ignoring their religious belief, how is it that
they can allow the government to kill with their tax dollars
with drones, but not with the law allowing others to get legal
drugs for contraception?
And these religious owners are no where near the actual use of
contraception, how is it violating their religious beliefs? no
one is forcing them to use contraception?
Are you just blindly believing that their religious beliefs are
being violated and cannot explain how?
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