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       #Post#: 12502--------------------------------------------------
       Romney, The Price of Failed Leadership
       By: trollslayer Date: March 18, 2014, 8:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Why are there no good choices? From Crimea to North Korea, from
       Syria to Egypt, and from Iraq to Afghanistan, America apparently
       has no good options. If possession is nine-tenths of the law,
       Russia owns Crimea and all we can do is sanction and
       disinvite—and wring our hands.
       Iran is following North Korea's nuclear path, but it seems that
       we can only entreat Iran to sign the same kind of agreement
       North Korea once signed, undoubtedly with the same result.
       Our tough talk about a red line in Syria prompted Vladimir
       Putin's sleight of hand, leaving the chemicals and killings much
       as they were. We say Bashar Assad must go, but aligning with his
       al Qaeda-backed opposition is an unacceptable option.
       And how can it be that Iraq and Afghanistan each refused to sign
       the status-of-forces agreement with us—with the very nation that
       shed the blood of thousands of our bravest for them?
       Why, across the world, are America's hands so tied?
       A large part of the answer is our leader's terrible timing. In
       virtually every foreign-affairs crisis we have faced these past
       five years, there was a point when America had good choices and
       good options. There was a juncture when America had the
       potential to influence events. But we failed to act at the
       propitious point; that moment having passed, we were left
       without acceptable options. In foreign affairs as in life, there
       is, as Shakespeare had it, "a tide in the affairs of men which,
       taken at the flood leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage
       of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries."
       When protests in Ukraine grew and violence ensued, it was surely
       evident to people in the intelligence community—and to the White
       House—that President Putin might try to take advantage of the
       situation to capture Crimea, or more. That was the time to talk
       with our global allies about punishments and sanctions, to
       secure their solidarity, and to communicate these to the Russian
       president. These steps, plus assurances that we would not
       exclude Russia from its base in Sevastopol or threaten its
       influence in Kiev, might have dissuaded him from invasion.
       Months before the rebellion began in Syria in 2011, a foreign
       leader I met with predicted that Assad would soon fall from
       power. Surely the White House saw what this observer saw. As the
       rebellion erupted, the time was ripe for us to bring together
       moderate leaders who would have been easy enough for us to
       identify, to assure the Alawites that they would have a future
       post-Assad, and to see that the rebels were well armed.
       The advent of the Arab Spring may or may not have been foreseen
       by our intelligence community, but after Tunisia, it was
       predictable that Egypt might also become engulfed. At that
       point, pushing our friend Hosni Mubarak to take rapid and bold
       steps toward reform, as did Jordan's king, might well have saved
       lives and preserved the U.S.-Egypt alliance.
       The time for securing the status-of-forces signatures from
       leaders in Iraq and Afghanistan was before we announced in 2011
       our troop-withdrawal timeline, not after it. In negotiations,
       you get something when the person across the table wants
       something from you, not after you have already given it away.
       Able leaders anticipate events, prepare for them, and act in
       time to shape them. My career in business and politics has
       exposed me to scores of people in leadership positions, only a
       few of whom actually have these qualities. Some simply cannot
       envision the future and are thus unpleasantly surprised when it
       arrives. Some simply hope for the best. Others succumb to
       analysis paralysis, weighing trends and forecasts and choices
       beyond the time of opportunity.
       President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton traveled the
       world in pursuit of their promise to reset relations and to
       build friendships across the globe. Their failure has been
       painfully evident: It is hard to name even a single country that
       has more respect and admiration for America today than when
       President Obama took office, and now Russia is in Ukraine. Part
       of their failure, I submit, is due to their failure to act when
       action was possible, and needed.
       A chastened president and Secretary of State Kerry, a year into
       his job, can yet succeed, and for the country's sake, must
       succeed. Timing is of the essence.
  HTML http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304747404579445170801186310?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304747404579445170801186310.html
       #Post#: 12503--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Romney, The Price of Failed Leadership
       By: Notso Date: March 18, 2014, 12:00 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I really don't know if there is a right answer to these
       problems.
       Never the less, President Obama and Pope Benedict both come
       across as failures, might be academics don't do well as leaders.
       Benedict was supposed to be a hard liner, talked tough, but did
       nothing.  Obama was supposed to reset the world with pretty
       words, and did nothing.  Might be we should leave the academics
       on campus with Feingold.
       #Post#: 12504--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Romney, The Price of Failed Leadership
       By: rapids_60 Date: March 18, 2014, 6:19 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]Why, across the world, are America's hands so
       tied?[/quote]
       There were  similarly no 'good choices' when Bush was in office
       and Putin invaded Georgia.   We apparently had no influence back
       then either.
       Let's not pretend this is something brand new, Mr. Sour Grapes
       Romney.  There is zero reason to believe things would have gone
       any differently had Romney won.
       I think we need to get it out of our heads that: 1) other
       countries affairs are our business (they aren't), and 2) that
       there's always something we can do about it (there isn't).
       There is a UN in place to deal with this stuff.  If they do not-
       well, too bad.  We've been the World's Policeman on borrowed
       money far too long and it needs to stop.
       #Post#: 12506--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Romney, The Price of Failed Leadership
       By: trollslayer Date: March 18, 2014, 10:24 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=rapids_60 link=topic=978.msg12504#msg12504
       date=1395184788]
       There were  similarly no 'good choices' when Bush was in office
       and Putin invaded Georgia.   We apparently had no influence back
       then either.
       Let's not pretend this is something brand new, Mr. Sour Grapes
       Romney.  There is zero reason to believe things would have gone
       any differently had Romney won.
       I think we need to get it out of our heads that: 1) other
       countries affairs are our business (they aren't), and 2) that
       there's always something we can do about it (there isn't).
       There is a UN in place to deal with this stuff.  If they do not-
       well, too bad.  We've been the World's Policeman on borrowed
       money far too long and it needs to stop.
       [/quote]
       Rapids, you're overlooking a large part of the article in an
       attempt to blame Bush.  There are several point you're
       overlooking in there.  For instance, his administrations
       inability to negotiate a SOFA with Iraq and Afghanistan.
       Obama's red line in Syria that he turned and ran from.  Not to
       mention the Obama rhetoric that Assad must go, then not do
       anything about it.  Or how about Obama telling Putin to stay out
       of the Crimea or else, only to find the "or else" is sanctions
       against a dozen or so Russians.
       The point I put in bold is also a great failing of the Obama
       administration. The US was going to once again be respected the
       world over just because he was elected and even embarked on a
       worldwide apology tour to emphasize the point.  Also. let's not
       forget the open mic gaffe made with Putin's predecessor or the
       big deal made out of the reset button with Hillary and the
       Russians.
       My whole thought on this is if you're going to bark, you'd
       better bite.  All I've heard is a lot of barking.  No biting no
       follow through.
       If you really want to look back five years, I find myself
       wondering if, knowing what we know now, if the Nobel Peace Prize
       committee would present Obama with the prize if they knew then
       what they know now.
       Finally, let us also not forget that in the debate, Romney was
       right.  He was belittled and ridiculed by Obama and the liberal
       press.  Bush is so five years ago.
       #Post#: 12508--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Romney, The Price of Failed Leadership
       By: rapids_60 Date: March 18, 2014, 11:07 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm not blaming Bush, TS.
       You really gotta stop whipping that line out every time our
       past president is mentioned.  You cannot just erase  the Bush
       years.  They are relevant in this discussion as  proof even if
       Obama were another snarling Cheney,  the results would be
       exactly the same.
       And that's the flaw with Romney's comments.  Oh sure, Obama's a
       wishy-washy loser of a president, he's right on that.  Where
       he's wrong is assuming it matters. Putin's course was set long
       before Obama took office and rhetoric and partisan bluster
       aside, short of dropping bombs, we aren't changing it.
       Opposing the US gives him credibility with Russians.  Opposing a
       strong US leader merely gives him more credibility.  Most
       Russians see him as correcting Kruschev's mistake and see the US
       and EU as meddling interferers.  Putin isn't going to bargain
       that away, he's right where he wants to be.
       [quote]My whole thought on this is if you're going to bark,
       you'd better bite.  All I've heard is a lot of barking.  No
       biting no follow through[/quote]
       What would you suggest for follow through?  It's all downside
       for Europe and no upside.  There is even less the USA can do
       that Putin would actually feel.  Maybe we could stop importing
       Vodka?  Sanctions only cement his position as Grand Defier of
       the west and galvanize his people around him.
       I suppose we could threaten WWIII over the issue, and some
       Warhawks are probably salivating at that idea, but I'm not.
       We can rattle the sabres at smaller countries without much for a
       military. That isn't going to work with Russia.  Unless we're
       dropping bombs it's all hot air to Putin and any lesser response
       will be ignored.  Obama or not.
       #Post#: 12510--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Romney, The Price of Failed Leadership
       By: trollslayer Date: March 19, 2014, 6:45 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]I'm not blaming Bush, TS.
       You really gotta stop whipping that line out every time our
       past president is mentioned.  [/quote]
       Then you gotta stop whipping out the "Bush did this" defense
       every time Obama is criticized.  Two wrongs don't make a right.
       [quote]What would you suggest for follow through? [/quote]
       You missed the whole point.  What I, Romney, Bush or anyone else
       would do isn't the point.  The point is, if you're going to
       threaten costs, consequences or whatever you're going to call
       it, you better be able to back them up with some kind of action.
       How many times have we heard this empty threat from the Obama
       administration only to have nothing happen.  Right off of the
       top of my head Syria comes to mind, Ukraine, the IRS scandal,
       Benghazi, just top name a few.  If you aren't going to do
       anything, say nothing.  If you're going to threaten action and
       do nothing your words mean nothing.
       #Post#: 12517--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Romney, The Price of Failed Leadership
       By: rapids_60 Date: March 19, 2014, 8:12 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Again, "bush did the same" isn't a defense either, lol.  It's a
       historical fact that is relevant to the current situation.
       Man, bringing that guy's name up sure ruffles some feathers ;)
       I get it.  The right hates Obama.  I don't like the guy either,
       but you really can't ignore the fact that the previous
       republican President Who Shall Not Be Named made the exact same
       empty threats towards the exact same Russian leader followed by
       the exact same inaction when said Russian leader snatched back
       Georgia.    Do you think Putin understands the concept of
       "precedent"?
       A current weak president coupled with knowledge that last time
       he invaded all we did was stomp our feet and whine?   Y'all want
       to ignore half that equation, lol.
       #Post#: 12518--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Romney, The Price of Failed Leadership
       By: trollslayer Date: March 19, 2014, 8:50 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]Man, bringing that guy's name up sure ruffles some
       feathers ;)[/quote]
       Nah, no feathers ruffled at all.  The old "he did it first
       excuse never flew with my kids and it won't fly with you either.
       :D
       [quote]...but you really can't ignore the fact that the previous
       republican President Who Shall Not Be Named made the exact same
       empty threats towards the exact same Russian leader followed by
       the exact same inaction when said Russian leader snatched back
       Georgia.[/quote]
       You again keep over looking the fact that this goes deeper than
       just what happened in Crimea.  You have a president that
       threatens "costs" in Crimea. "Consequences" in Libya, Syria, the
       IRS scandal.......  Yet nothing has happened in any of these
       travesties, even years later.
       In a way, I have a little more respect for Putin as a leader
       than for Obama.  He didn't threaten action in Crimea and then
       didn't follow through.  He just did it.
       We have a former community organizer vs a former KGB commander.
       In the words of John Bolton, it's like a steak knife taking on a
       cup cake.  You can fill in the blank with who is who.
       [quote]
       I get it.  The right hates Obama. [/quote]
       I consider myself part of the right and I don't "hate" Obama.
       OTOH I hate weakness.  Obama has proven himself to be weaker on
       the world stage than Carter and that's saying a lot.  This is a
       fact that you can not deny.  Weeks after Putin went into Crimea,
       John "Swiftboat" Kerry was trying to negotiate an "off ramp" for
       Putin to back out of Crimea.  Anyone with half a brain knows
       Putin doesn't back away from anything and he sure ain't gonna
       accept an "off ramp" out of Crimea.  How's that reset workin for
       ya?  Got them chemical weapons out of Syria yet?  Aren't they
       supposed to be all gone by now?
       
       #Post#: 12526--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Romney, The Price of Failed Leadership
       By: trollslayer Date: March 20, 2014, 7:05 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Putin has now applied sanctions against some in Congress.  T-i=t
       for tat they're calling it.
  HTML http://www.nationaljournal.com/defense/russia-s-sanctions-list-the-hottest-list-in-washington-20140320
       #Post#: 12527--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Romney, The Price of Failed Leadership
       By: Snickers Date: March 20, 2014, 7:51 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Obama is really going to hold Putin's feet to the fire now.
       The Whitehouse and Pentagon are proposing to cut military aid to
       Ukraine by 28%.
  HTML http://www.usatoday.com/story/nation/2014/03/20/program-boosting-ukraine-facing-cuts-warsaw-initiative/6601059/
       We still have three more years of this idiot in Whitehouse.
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