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       #Post#: 12254--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
   DIR By: trollslayer
       Date: March 4, 2014, 9:28 pm
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       --- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
       >
       > Do you think Putin cares about any of that?   He's a hero to
       his people right now for bringing Ukraine back to the
       motherland, and an even bigger hero for spitting in the face of
       the West.
       > He needs to justify his twisting the rules to remain in power
       for 14+ years and this was the payoff to the Russian people for
       not questioning him.   Right now Putin can do no wrong.
       >
       > Unfortunately the Keystone pipeline would be of no help
       whatsoever.    Keystone will not carry Natural Gas and we have
       no means to transport it transocean if it did.
       > Crude oil, diesel and gasoline we can help with, but those are
       not the issue.
       >
       > There is a reason TS, that we've done little other than talk
       about Russia for 50 years.
       > They are rich in oil and gas, basically self-sufficient,
       funnel a lot of money into European banks and do not care about
       world opinion.  Europe needs Russia more than Russia needs
       Europe, and Russia does not need the USA at all.
       > Again, the options are?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       The answers are simple.  For starters, freeze their assets.  Hit
       them in the pocketbook.  Second, they aren't self sufficient.
       Their strength is their weakness.  We start opening up the oil
       market  increase fracking, the keystone pipeline etc.  We can
       lower the price of oil to record lows,  Cause some real hardship
       in Russia.  Putin has already warned the US not to try sanctions
       because he states they would backfire.  I think cutting off his
       funding is one thing he understands.
       Why did the Cold War end?  Not because we beat the Russians,
       they couldn't afford to fight it anymore.
       #Post#: 12259--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
   DIR By: rapids_60
       Date: March 4, 2014, 11:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
       >
       > We can lower the price of oil to record lows,
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       At great expense to the US energy industry and it's
       stockholders.  They are barely recovering their costs at today's
       prices. Fracking is expensive.  They would have to operate at a
       substantial loss to drive the price of oil/gas down very far.
       Not that it couldn't be done, but considering we have no real
       interest in the Ukraine,  better to keep our powder safe and dry
       than to waste it on the insignificant.
       I'm curious why we should even get involved with this, TS.  I
       get the feeling we're not being told the entire story.
       The Ukranians themselves are divided on whether the Russians are
       invaders or protectors, it was their own leader who asked Putin
       to intervene.
       I don't think this story is as black and white as it's being
       made out to be.
       #Post#: 12265--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
   DIR By: trollslayer
       Date: March 5, 2014, 7:02 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
       >
       > At great expense to the US energy industry and it's
       stockholders.  They are barely recovering their costs at today's
       prices. Fracking is expensive.  They would have to operate at a
       substantial loss to drive the price of oil/gas down very far.
       > Not that it couldn't be done, but considering we have no real
       interest in the Ukraine,  better to keep our powder safe and dry
       than to waste it on the insignificant.
       >
       > I'm curious why we should even get involved with this, TS.  I
       get the feeling we're not being told the entire story.
       > The Ukranians themselves are divided on whether the Russians
       are invaders or protectors, it was their own leader who asked
       Putin to intervene.
       > I don't think this story is as black and white as it's being
       made out to be.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       If there were minimal money being made from fracking I suspect
       it wouldn't be as popular a it is.  Fracking isn't the only
       source of energy.  All you need to do is announce the Keystone
       pipeline is approved and that we're increasing our output and
       the price of oill will immediately decline.
       The Crimea region has been Pro Russia and Eastern Ukraine as
       well.  So does this give the Soviet Union the right to go in and
       occupy a sovereign nation?  I don't think so.  The attitude of
       why get involved in this was prevalent during WWII.  I strongly
       suspect the Great Russian Bear has awoke from his slumber and is
       starting to get hungry.  Putin has made no secret that he would
       like to see the old Russian Empire restored.  I think this is
       yet another move, (not his first) to bring that dream to a
       reality.  How long should we wait before we care.  Putin is
       using the excuse that the ex-president wanted him to intervene.
       How many leaders have been thrown out of their posts since the
       "Arab Spring" has swept across the world?  Why didn't he
       intervene in any of those countries?
       #Post#: 12270--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
   DIR By: Snickers
       Date: March 5, 2014, 9:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The first thing that should be done is kick Russia out of the G8
       The very next thing to do is put the missiles back in Eastern
       Europe.
       But Obama will never be able to get the European's to kick
       Russia out. Because no one will listen to Obama. They all see
       him as spineless. And no one trusts or believes Obama.
       As for the missiles Obama sold them out and stabbed them in the
       back when he removed the missiles for Putin. Obama would have to
       beg them to put them back now. He'd have to kiss they're a$$es.
       And Obama won't do what is necessary to get those missiles back
       there. Because he is such an extreme narcissist. His ego won't
       allow him to admit that he made a mistake and was wrong.
       Obama.. America's Neville Chamberlain
       #Post#: 12287--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
   DIR By: rapids_60
       Date: March 5, 2014, 11:05 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
       >
       > If there were minimal money being made from fracking I suspect
       it wouldn't be as popular a it is.  Fracking isn't the only
       source of energy.  All you need to do is announce the Keystone
       pipeline is approved and that we're increasing our output and
       the price of oill will immediately decline.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       US oil production has increased by several magnitudes of
       Keystone capacity in the last few years.  Prices haven't
       dropped.  We've literally been drill-baby-drilling, but the
       promised price reductions haven't materialized.  Instead we're
       exporting the stuff at higher prices.
       Might see a couple-day long drop if Keystone is approved, but no
       more.
       Fracking has been sort of a love/hate thing for energy
       companies. They love the fact it's expanded their inventory, but
       hate the way it's driven the price of Natural Gas down to
       near-unprofitable levels.  Drive prices down much further and
       they'll simply cut back production.  They're scrambling to find
       ways to export the stuff to push prices back up.
       Absolutely correct on putting the Russian empire back together.
       That is exactly Putin's goal and the Russian people appear to
       want it.  He's not going to wuss out over a couple of piddling
       sanctions or exclusion from G8.  He'll probably go tit-for-tat,
       making Europe suffer accordingly and he has the tools to do so.
       Putting missile defense systems in Eastern Europe back on the
       table might be a workable bargaining chip.
       Outside that our options are basically military or military.
       How many American lives and trillions of American dollars is
       this worth to us?
       #Post#: 12288--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
   DIR By: rapids_60
       Date: March 5, 2014, 11:15 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       You are right Snickers that Europe isn't going to do anything.
       We have diminished influence in Europe, you may recall they
       mostly couldn't stand Bush over there....and today they do not
       trust Obama.    Meanwhile the Russians do big business with
       European banks and Europe is heavily dependent on Russia for
       winter heating fuel.   Even a short disruption during wintertime
       will cause casualties. They aren't going to risk it over
       something they see as not affecting them.
       I came across this while reading.  Thought you'd enjoy it ;)
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