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#Post#: 12208--------------------------------------------------
Limp wristed obama is the cause
DIR By: Mr.steve
Date: March 3, 2014, 9:05 pm
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HTML http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/john-bolton-donald-rumsfeld-ukraine-russia/2014/03/03/id/555831
"This is not a problem of today. It's not a problem of what
Obama didn't do on Friday or what he's not going to do
tomorrow," Bolton said. "It's a problem of having five years of
no thinking about what America's interests are. When the crisis
hits, your options are very limited."
#Post#: 12212--------------------------------------------------
Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: March 3, 2014, 11:49 pm
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Blah blah blah. Don't conservatives ever check their own
history before making accusations?
Russia did the exact same thing in Georgia while Bush was in
office. In fact his inaction may be what laid the groundwork
for Putin's assumption there will be no 'consequences" this
time either.
Our policy towards them under Bush was one of empty threats.
Technically that has been our policy for almost 50 years.
Putin assumed correctly that policy has continued.
Here's the long and short of it:
Putin knows we won't be sending the nukes over anytime soon.
And short of that they really do not care what we say, what we
do, or who the president is. In fact openly defying us, both
Bush and Obama, is the entire friggin' point.
There is nothing the USA can do or could have done to change
that short of military intervention, which would be incredibly
stupid.
#Post#: 12217--------------------------------------------------
Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: March 4, 2014, 7:04 am
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I just love the Bush did it first mantra, six years later. It
gives Obama a free pass. Oh well. History seems to be lost on
some. Hitler used the same premise as Putin as well. We all
know how that turned out. Putin can be hurt economically. It
doesn't seem like anyone has the stomach to take him on that way
as well. One more point, Bush had three months left in office
when Putin invaded, Obama has three years. Am I standing up for
the way Bush handled it? No, look at the slaughter of his
inaction then. Do we want to see another?
How's that reset working for you? This is a classic example of
the naivete of the Obama administration and Hillary Clinton as
far as that goes.
#Post#: 12222--------------------------------------------------
Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
DIR By: ecsmith2
Date: March 4, 2014, 10:24 am
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How do you think we should take Putin on?
#Post#: 12226--------------------------------------------------
Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: March 4, 2014, 10:42 am
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--- Quote from: ecsmith2 link ---
>
> How do you think we should take Putin on?
>
--- End Quote ---
I believe my previous posting offered a suggestion. In typical
Ed fashion you choose to ignore it. This is why it's a colossal
waste of time discussing anything with you. Have a nice day Ed.
#Post#: 12231--------------------------------------------------
Trolly's Word Games
DIR By: ecsmith2
Date: March 4, 2014, 11:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
>
> I believe my previous posting offered a suggestion. In
typical Ed fashion you choose to ignore it. This is why it's a
colossal waste of time discussing anything with you. Have a
nice day Ed.
>
--- End Quote ---
Your previous posting:
--- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
>
> I just love the Bush did it first mantra, six years later. It
gives Obama a free pass. Oh well. History seems to be lost on
some. Hitler used the same premise as Putin as well. We all
know how that turned out. Putin can be hurt economically. It
doesn't seem like anyone has the stomach to take him on that way
as well. One more point, Bush had three months left in office
when Putin invaded, Obama has three years. Am I standing up for
the way Bush handled it? No, look at the slaughter of his
inaction then. Do we want to see another?
> How's that reset working for you? This is a classic example
of the naivete of the Obama administration and Hillary Clinton
as far as that goes.
>
--- End Quote ---
Not seeing any suggestions for what to do in order to ignore it.
Mind highlighting your suggestion for what to do?
#Post#: 12240--------------------------------------------------
Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: March 4, 2014, 2:55 pm
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--- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
>
> Putin can be hurt economically.
>
--- End Quote ---
"Bush did it first" is what Republicans say when they don't want
to be reminded they're being hypocritical. Two presidents
react to an invasion in exactly the same way, but we're only
gonna talk about the current one, as if history does not matter.
Got it.
Precedent is everything. We did nothing then, we're assumed to
do nothing now. That's the fact, spin it however you like.
Who exactly is going to impose economic sanctions on Russia?
Us? Our trade with them isn't enough to hurt much.
Europe? The Bankers are far too friendly with Putin and the
EU is far too dependent on Russian natural gas.
China? Hardly. They are Russia's new strategic partner.
Maybe we could get Zimbabwe to impose a sanction or two, you
think?
This is the whole problem with dealing with Putin. There aren't
any effective tools in the toolbox and he knows it.
#Post#: 12246--------------------------------------------------
Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
DIR By: ecsmith2
Date: March 4, 2014, 3:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
>
> "Bush did it first" is what Republicans say when they don't
want to be reminded they're being hypocritical. Two
presidents react to an invasion in exactly the same way, but
we're only gonna talk about the current one, as if history does
not matter. Got it.
> Precedent is everything. We did nothing then, we're assumed
to do nothing now. That's the fact, spin it however you like.
>
> Who exactly is going to impose economic sanctions on Russia?
Us? Our trade with them isn't enough to hurt much.
> Europe? The Bankers are far too friendly with Putin and the
EU is far too dependent on Russian natural gas.
> China? Hardly. They are Russia's new strategic partner.
> Maybe we could get Zimbabwe to impose a sanction or two, you
think?
> This is the whole problem with dealing with Putin. There
aren't any effective tools in the toolbox and he knows it.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
+1
#Post#: 12247--------------------------------------------------
Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: March 4, 2014, 3:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
>
> "Bush did it first" is what Republicans say when they don't
want to be reminded they're being hypocritical. Two
presidents react to an invasion in exactly the same way, but
we're only gonna talk about the current one, as if history does
not matter. Got it.
> Precedent is everything. We did nothing then, we're assumed
to do nothing now. That's the fact, spin it however you like.
>
> Who exactly is going to impose economic sanctions on Russia?
Us? Our trade with them isn't enough to hurt much.
> Europe? The Bankers are far too friendly with Putin and the
EU is far too dependent on Russian natural gas.
> China? Hardly. They are Russia's new strategic partner.
> Maybe we could get Zimbabwe to impose a sanction or two, you
think?
> This is the whole problem with dealing with Putin. There
aren't any effective tools in the toolbox and he knows it.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, we impose sanctions against Russia. We wouldn't be
entirely alone. Removal from the G* and the WTO would help a
well. Of course if we had the Keystone pipeline in place we
would be in more of a position to assist in meeting the needs
for fuel in Europe but that is a whole different story.
As far as your "Bush did it first" statement, you're the one who
said it first and this seems to be the excuse for Obama. If we
don't learn from our mistakes we're prone to repeat them over
and over again, and we are.
#Post#: 12251--------------------------------------------------
Re: Limp wristed obama is the cause
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: March 4, 2014, 8:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
>
> Yes, we impose sanctions against Russia. We wouldn't be
entirely alone. Removal from the G* and the WTO would help a
well. Of course if we had the Keystone pipeline in place we
would be in more of a position to assist in meeting the needs
for fuel in Europe but that is a whole different story.
> As far as your "Bush did it first" statement, you're the one
who said it first and this seems to be the excuse for Obama. If
we don't learn from our mistakes we're prone to repeat them over
and over again, and we are.
>
--- End Quote ---
Do you think Putin cares about any of that? He's a hero to his
people right now for bringing Ukraine back to the motherland,
and an even bigger hero for spitting in the face of the West.
He needs to justify his twisting the rules to remain in power
for 14+ years and this was the payoff to the Russian people for
not questioning him. Right now Putin can do no wrong.
Unfortunately the Keystone pipeline would be of no help
whatsoever. Keystone will not carry Natural Gas and we have
no means to transport it transocean if it did.
Crude oil, diesel and gasoline we can help with, but those are
not the issue.
There is a reason TS, that we've done little other than talk
about Russia for 50 years.
They are rich in oil and gas, basically self-sufficient, funnel
a lot of money into European banks and do not care about world
opinion. Europe needs Russia more than Russia needs Europe, and
Russia does not need the USA at all.
Again, the options are?
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