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       #Post#: 12743--------------------------------------------------
       Re: GOP change to Obamacare would cost 1 million more workers
       their insurance. 
   DIR By: Snickers
       Date: April 1, 2014, 3:46 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Mr.steve link ---
       >
       > It was taken in the voting booth. It was not an absentee
       ballot....sorry.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Vurwink isn't as bright as he would like everyone to believe.
       Even I knew it is illegal to do what he did.
       #Post#: 12745--------------------------------------------------
       Re: GOP change to Obamacare would cost 1 million more workers
       their insurance. 
   DIR By: Snickers
       Date: April 1, 2014, 4:04 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Obama must have given his propaganda minister his marching
       orders to jack up their liberal news media machine.
       Yahoo news??  ::)   ::) page has been full of ObamaCare phrase
       stories. And many, many articles attacking the critics of
       ObamaCare
       Three to four a day.
       Midterm election nightmare is just around the corner. Seven
       months and counting till the hammer comes down on the Democrats.
       They're new enrollment numbers have the stench of fiction.
       I find it strange that as many people could have managed to sign
       up for ObamaCare  in the past two weeks as did in all of the
       previous five months.
       #Post#: 12750--------------------------------------------------
       Re: GOP change to Obamacare would cost 1 million more workers
       their insurance. 
   DIR By: ecsmith2
       Date: April 1, 2014, 6:22 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
       >
       > It will be interesting to see if Obama's death panel will be
       as effective as Hitler's!  ;)
       > That of course may be why several leading cancer centers and
       children's hospitals aren't part of Obamacare.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       What part of the health care reform law are these several
       leading cancer centers and children hospitals opting out of, to
       not be a part of it?
       Please explain.
       And I don't know how many times people have to be told, no death
       panels in the PPACA.  Apparently at least one more time.
       #Post#: 12755--------------------------------------------------
       Re: GOP change to Obamacare would cost 1 million more workers
       their insurance. 
   DIR By: trollslayer
       Date: April 2, 2014, 12:29 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: ecsmith2 link ---
       >
       >
       > What part of the health care reform law are these several
       leading cancer centers and children hospitals opting out of, to
       not be a part of it?
       >
       > Please explain.
       >
       > And I don't know how many times people have to be told, no
       death panels in the PPACA.  Apparently at least one more time.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Eddie, once again, you expect others to do the research for you.
       Considering you think of yourself as some great computer whiz,
       you sure do seen totally incapable of doing a simple google
       search.  Here is an article showing some of the  the top
       hospitals opting out of Obamacare.  This is the only link I will
       provide you.  The rest is on your own.
       --- Quote ---
       > Regulations driven by the Obama White House have indeed made
       insurance more affordable – if, like Health and Human Services
       Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, you're looking only at price. But
       responding to Obamacare caps on premiums, many insurers will, in
       turn, simply offer top-tier doctors and hospitals far less cash
       for services rendered.
       >
       > Watchdog.org looked at the top 18 hospitals nationwide as
       ranked by U.S. News and World Report for 2013-2014. We contacted
       each hospital to determine their contracts and talked to several
       insurance companies, as well.
       >
       > The result of our investigation: Many top hospitals are simply
       opting out of Obamacare.
       >
       > Chances are the individual plan you purchased outside
       Obamacare would allow you to go to these facilities. For
       example, fourth-ranked Cleveland Clinic accepts dozens of
       insurance plans if you buy one on your own. But go through
       Obamacare and you have just one choice: Medical Mutual of Ohio.
       >
       > And that's not because their exchanges don't offer options.
       Both Ohio and California have a dozen insurance companies on
       their exchanges, yet two of the states' premier hospitals –
       Cleveland Clinic and Cedars-Sinai Medical Center – have only one
       company in their respective networks.
       >
       > A few, like No. 1-rated Johns Hopkins in Maryland, are
       mandated under state law to accept all insurance companies.
       Other than that, the hospital with the largest number of
       insurance companies is University Hospitals Case Medical Center
       in Cleveland with just four. Fully 11 of the 18 hospitals had
       just one or two carriers.
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML http://health.usnews.com/health-news/hospital-of-tomorrow/articles/2013/10/30/top-hospitals-opt-out-of-obamacare?page=1
       Please, don't try coming back with your usual simplistic reply
       stating your question wasn't answered.  This article does just
       that and goes way past answering your question.
       You continue to drink the Democratic kool aid, parroting the
       Democratic talking points, totally incapable of seeing what's
       going on.   The only way to decrease cost, as promised is to
       decrease services.  A simple google search would bear this out.
       You unfortunately seem totally incapable of executing one.  I'm
       not going to provide you with another link to show you're wrong.
       Once is enough.
       You would rather listen to a party that has lied to push it's
       agenda rather than thinking for yourself.  Nothing new there.
       You would rather believe a party who says, if you like you plan
       you can keep it.  If you like your doctor you can keep them.
       The cost of healthcare is going down.  You appear to be one of
       those people you can fool all of the time.
       #Post#: 12760--------------------------------------------------
       Re: GOP change to Obamacare would cost 1 million more workers
       their insurance. 
   DIR By: ecsmith2
       Date: April 2, 2014, 1:45 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Well, the question is not getting answered, but that is because
       the hospitals are not really opting out of "Obamacare".  They
       are not accepting insurance of some insurers, that is not part
       of the law, and some insurers are not including those facilities
       in the network they setup for their insurance.  That was
       something that was happening before the law, or are you unaware
       of the concept of seeing a provider out of your insurance
       network?
       From your link:
       "Many companies have selectively entered the exchanges because
       they are concerned that (the exchanges) will be dominated by
       risky, high-using populations who wanted insurance (before
       Obamacare) and couldn't afford it," said Wilsensky, who is also
       on the board of directors of UnitedHealth. "They are pressed to
       narrow their networks to stay within the premiums."
       "In many cases, consumers are shopping blind when it comes to
       what doctors and hospitals are included in their Obamacare
       exchange plans," said Josh Archambault, senior fellow with the
       think tank Foundation for Government Accountability. "These
       patients will be in for a rude awakening once they need care,
       and get stuck with a big bill for going out-of-network without
       realizing it."
       It is not the law making the insurance companies keep some
       providers out of their networks.  That is up to the insurance
       company.
       So I read you article, and I don't see any information about the
       providers opting out of anything in the law itself, other that
       the former Bush administration person saying that is what is
       happening.  She just says it, like you, without providing any
       details that what she says is correct.
       #Post#: 12761--------------------------------------------------
       Re: GOP change to Obamacare would cost 1 million more workers
       their insurance. 
   DIR By: trollslayer
       Date: April 2, 2014, 2:40 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       As predicted, you totally ignored the meat of the article.
       Especially the part that says
       --- Quote ---
       > Many top hospitals are simply opting out of Obamacare.
       --- End Quote ---
       Then the article goes on to explain why.   Yet you remain unable
       to provide anything that disputes anything I posted.   There's
       that lack of computer knowledge rearing it's ugly head again.
       --- Quote ---
       > So I read you article, and I don't see any information about
       the providers opting out of anything in the law itself,
       --- End Quote ---
       The law set up the exchanges Eddie.  The providers are bowing
       out of the low reimbursement rate being paid by many of those
       insurance companies in the exchange.  I'm sorry you needed that
       simple fact pointed out to you.  It shows a clear lack of any
       critical thinking skills in your talking point.
       Have a nice day Eddie.
       Jeremiah 5:21
       Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding;
       which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not.
       
       #Post#: 12762--------------------------------------------------
       Re: GOP change to Obamacare would cost 1 million more workers
       their insurance. 
   DIR By: ecsmith2
       Date: April 2, 2014, 2:45 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "Obamacare", the PPACA, is not insurance.  It is law regulating
       health care insurance, mostly.  There in nothing in the law that
       requires any provider to accept any payment from any insurer.
       There is nothing in the law that requires or prohibits an
       insurer to include any providers in the network it sets up.
       That is the precious free market that the Republicans want to
       maintain in the system at work.  You know, the "choice" they
       want everyone to have?
       If no insurer wants to include the Cleveland Clinic in its
       network, you want the law to make them?  Before the PPACA,
       providers did not have to accept Medicare/Medicaid, you want the
       new law to be able to do that with the private insurance
       policies?
       Doctors that do not accept Medicare patients are not opting out
       of Medicare.  They are simply not taking Medicare insurance
       payments.
       You and this person from the Bush administration just want to
       say bad things about the law.  And saying hospitals are opting
       out of the law sounds really bad.  And I don't want bad things
       to happen either, but what is happening is not because of the
       law.  It is free market decisions being made by providers and
       insurance companies that are outside of the law.
       Something I have been trying to say for years is that there are
       some places where free market choices are not the best way to
       handle some things.
       #Post#: 12763--------------------------------------------------
       Re: GOP change to Obamacare would cost 1 million more workers
       their insurance. 
   DIR By: ecsmith2
       Date: April 2, 2014, 2:54 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
       >
       > As predicted, you totally ignored the meat of the article.
       Especially the part that saysThen the article goes on to explain
       why.   Yet you remain unable to provide anything that disputes
       anything I posted.   There's that lack of computer knowledge
       rearing it's ugly head again.
       > The law set up the exchanges Eddie.  The providers are bowing
       out of the low reimbursement rate being paid by many of those
       insurance companies in the exchange.  I'm sorry you needed that
       simple fact pointed out to you.  It shows a clear lack of any
       critical thinking skills in your talking point.
       > Have a nice day Eddie.
       > Jeremiah 5:21
       > Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding;
       which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not.
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes, the exchanges are setup by the law.
       The exchanges do not setup the reimbursement rates, that you say
       are too low.
       Or can you show me where in the law the reimbursement rates are
       set?  You can't, because the law does not set the reimbursement
       rates.  It is not the law causing this issue.  Just because a
       moronic article writer puts that sentence into his piece does
       not make it true.
       If it is true, simply cut and paste the paragraph that makes it
       true.  I have read the article a second time, and the decisions
       being made are being made by providers and insurers, and those
       decisions are not being coerced by the law.  The main thrust is
       insurers are not putting good providers into their networks to
       keep their premiums low and not telling anyone who is in the
       insurance network.
       It is not the law doing that.
       I understand you don't like the law.  But you should some
       reasoning when being so public about it.
       If we had a single payer system, like Medicare, then you could
       blame the low reimbursement rates on the law.  But we don't have
       that.  We have allowed the free market, the private insurers, to
       set the reimbursement rates.
       #Post#: 12764--------------------------------------------------
       Re: GOP change to Obamacare would cost 1 million more workers
       their insurance. 
   DIR By: ecsmith2
       Date: April 2, 2014, 3:12 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Why do you continue to have the need to say I am wrong
       constantly, and never can show where I am wrong?
       That is the big question, you know.  Answer that one truthfully,
       and I leave your life forever.
       #Post#: 12765--------------------------------------------------
       Re: GOP change to Obamacare would cost 1 million more workers
       their insurance. 
   DIR By: trollslayer
       Date: April 2, 2014, 3:41 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > Just because a moronic article writer puts that sentence into
       his piece does not make it true.
       --- End Quote ---
       I call that statement the MSNBC defense since it's one that
       seems prevalent from the league of nonthinkers over there.  You
       remain totally incapable of mounting any kind of cogent,
       intelligent defense against the information provided.  So the
       next best step is to stomp your feet and call the author of the
       article a name, even though you don't know who the author is nor
       can you site anything moronic about the material.  What our
       resident suthun liberal doesn't get, is the only one who looks
       "moronic" is the one unable to defend his own statements and has
       to resort to such immature tactics.
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