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#Post#: 12223--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's next for Ukraine?
By: Notso Date: March 4, 2014, 10:25 am
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[quote author=p2_d link=topic=932.msg12205#msg12205
date=1393888630]
The irony of knowing that 100 years ago a similar confrontation
not too far from where this is happening now was the start of
WW1. I find this whole situation a lot more unnerving than most.
Ad to that we have a president who words do not carry any
strength and this scares the **** out of me. I can only hope
Kerry is capable of working some magic, Barack sure won't.
[/quote]
Just to stay out of the U.S. politics, the Obama and Kerry
thing, plus for some strange reason, Bush. Not good to see
Turkey flying around Russian ships in locked and loaded Jets,
that is NATO. For all the wars we seem to get in we also have a
history of showing strength and not shooting, something European
countries don't do so well, especially when they are broke.
That European Keynesian economic model has a pretty good
argument that killing people and breaking things is usually
pretty stimulative for the winner.
#Post#: 12228--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's next for Ukraine?
By: p2_d Date: March 4, 2014, 11:18 am
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[quote author=ecsmith2 link=topic=932.msg12221#msg12221
date=1393950165]
I agree, we should remove this feckless, weak President, but who
do you replace him with, and what should they be doing to Putin?
How should we display our testicular virility?
[/quote]
I never said that, but go right ahead and make things up, After
all its how most of your discussions go.
BYE BYE ::)
#Post#: 12232--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's next for Ukraine?
By: ecsmith2 Date: March 4, 2014, 12:49 pm
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[quote author=p2_d link=topic=932.msg12228#msg12228
date=1393953485]
I never said that, but go right ahead and make things up, After
all its how most of your discussions go.
BYE BYE ::)
[/quote]
[quote author=ecsmith2 link=topic=932.msg12221#msg12221
date=1393950165]
I agree, we should remove this feckless, weak President, but who
do you replace him with, and what should they be doing to Putin?
How should we display our testicular virility?
[/quote]
Just more misinterpretation to feed your ego that makes you just
think I am always wrong.
"I agree" just agreed with your posting.
The removing the President is my position not yours. I didn't
say you said it.
Then I finished with that sentence with a question that comes
from removing him, and you are free to answer it or not, your
choice.
The "testosterone virility" is the only thing directed at your
posting, since it implies we should be taking other actions than
what the President is doing, I was merely interested in what you
think we should be doing.
Pretty innocent, can't imagine how you got your undies in a knot
about what I posted.
#Post#: 12237--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's next for Ukraine?
By: rapids_60 Date: March 4, 2014, 2:34 pm
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[quote author=trollslayer link=topic=932.msg12216#msg12216
date=1393937586]
Who is calling for doubling or tripling the military?
[/quote]
You asked if it was really a good time to downsize the military.
I'm asking if it would make any difference if we increased the
size? Answer is probably "no" to either, neither makes any
difference to Putin.
He knows we won't be coming over, and perhaps even better knows
Europe won't be freezing the assets he and his friends and
associates have been stealing and stashing in European banks.
Not if they want natural gas for heat next winter.
#Post#: 12238--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's next for Ukraine?
By: rapids_60 Date: March 4, 2014, 2:42 pm
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[quote author=p2_d link=topic=932.msg12218#msg12218
date=1393944259]
I don't think it was the size or lack of size of the military,
but more the lack of testicular virility our current president
shows that Putin sees as our weakness, which allows him to make
such bold moves.
[/quote]
How do you explain Putin's excursion into Georgia? Bush's lack
of testicular virility?
I know you guys are going to have a field day blaming a weak
Obama for this, and I won't argue he isn't weak- because he is.
Problem is it makes no difference in this situation.
The same exact thing happened under Bush with a cabinet full of
Warhawks, a scowling Cheney and a quick trigger finger on use of
the military. Did Putin give a rat's ass?
It made no difference. Nada. Nor would it now. But carry
on....
#Post#: 12239--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's next for Ukraine?
By: p2_d Date: March 4, 2014, 2:52 pm
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[quote author=rapids_60 link=topic=932.msg12238#msg12238
date=1393965729]
How do you explain Putin's excursion into Georgia? Bush's lack
of testicular virility?
I know you guys are going to have a field day blaming a weak
Obama for this, and I won't argue he isn't weak- because he is.
Problem is it makes no difference in this situation.
The same exact thing happened under Bush with a cabinet full of
Warhawks, a scowling Cheney and a quick trigger finger on use of
the military. Did Putin give a rat's ass?
It made no difference. Nada. Nor would it now. But carry
on....
[/quote]
Well I was no fan Bush either, and too be quite honest what
happened 6 years ago is a distant memory. So what I said at the
time is lost now, but I know I sure wasn't blindly supporting
him or his decisions. And I was more likely to disagree with
what he did. I would not say it was a lack of TV on Bush's part
though, I would blame in on other problems.
#Post#: 12241--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's next for Ukraine?
By: rapids_60 Date: March 4, 2014, 3:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=p2_d link=topic=932.msg12239#msg12239
date=1393966339]
I would not say it was a lack of TV on Bush's part though, I
would blame in on other problems.
[/quote]
Exactly. The contents of the Presidential Shorts does not
matter to Putin.
The problem is, outside military intervention, there aren't any
good tools to use against Russia.
We really can't hurt him economically, we don't trade much,
Europe is too dependent on Russian fuel, European bankers love
Russian money,
China partners with Russia, not against.. and so on..
Unless we're going over there Putin can pretty much give us the
finger with impunity and he knows it.
Our reaction since about 1962 has been to stomp our feet then
do nothing. He's expecting more of the same, and he'll get it
because the other options are pretty thin.
#Post#: 12242--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's next for Ukraine?
By: p2_d Date: March 4, 2014, 3:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I enjoy the books of Alan Furst. They give a different
perspective on the time up to WW2 that I had not read before.
Wghat is happening now and Europes response seem pretty much the
same. They being much closer to the problem have a different
attitude on it. I was glad to see we did offer the Ukraine 1
billion dollars.
I think if we had a president who would actually stand by his
words Putin would be a lil less cavalier in his attitude. Face
it he read both these guys and called their bluffs. Oh to have
a real leader........
#Post#: 12252--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's next for Ukraine?
By: rapids_60 Date: March 4, 2014, 8:09 pm
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[quote author=p2_d link=topic=932.msg12242#msg12242
date=1393967405]
I enjoy the books of Alan Furst. They give a different
perspective on the time up to WW2 that I had not read before.
[/quote]
Sounds interesting, any suggestions on titles? Thanks for the
tip!
You'll get no argument from me that we haven't had a real leader
for Decades. Kennedy stood up to the Russians and the Russians
blinked. Reagan did the same. Not many before and none since
have been able to command their attention.
A lot of it has to do with changes in attitudes in Europe, not
just the USA. I look forward to reading any books you may
suggest.
#Post#: 12267--------------------------------------------------
Re: What's next for Ukraine?
By: luvcats Date: March 5, 2014, 7:33 am
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[quote author=p2_d link=topic=932.msg12242#msg12242
date=1393967405]
I enjoy the books of Alan Furst.
[/quote]
[quote author=rapids_60 link=topic=932.msg12252#msg12252
date=1393985363]
Sounds interesting, any suggestions on titles? Thanks for the
tip!
[/quote]
Yes, me too! I would like to read up on his books myself.
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