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#Post#: 19993--------------------------------------------------
Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!
By: Linda Lou Date: July 23, 2015, 7:54 pm
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They were traitors. They may have been pardoned by the U.S., but
they betrayed our nation, and caused a lot of death and
distruction.
#Post#: 19994--------------------------------------------------
Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!
By: rapids_60 Date: July 23, 2015, 8:55 pm
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[quote author=p2_d link=topic=1449.msg19983#msg19983
date=1437662166]
o
What about bathing the WH in rainbow colors?
[/quote]
Tasteless and inappropriate. I'm entirely in favor of gay
rights, but again- the government should not have an "opinion"
on the matter.Their job is to protect civil rights in a neutral
fashion, not cheer lead one side or the other.
#Post#: 20000--------------------------------------------------
Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!
By: trollslayer Date: July 24, 2015, 7:20 am
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The Civil War was the USA fighting the USA. This nation was
formed by people who left England because of an oppressive
government. Whether or not you agree with slavery those in the
South thought they were being oppressed by the government once
again. They did what they thought was right! They weren't
traitors, they were brave Americans fighting for what they
believed in. To somehow try and blame this or any other action
in the United States on a piece of cloth it's just taking away
from the issue. Simply not agreeing with the cause does not make
a person a traitor. That would mean if you disagreed with
Vietnam Iraq Kuwait Grenada or any other wore those soldiers
were traders as well. That is not the case.
#Post#: 20003--------------------------------------------------
Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!
By: Snickers Date: July 24, 2015, 9:35 am
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[quote author=trollslayer link=topic=1449.msg20000#msg20000
date=1437740456]
The Civil War was the USA fighting the USA. This nation was
formed by people who left England because of an oppressive
government. Whether or not you agree with slavery those in the
South thought they were being oppressed by the government once
again. They did what they thought was right! They weren't
traitors, they were brave Americans fighting for what they
believed in. To somehow try and blame this or any other action
in the United States on a piece of cloth it's just taking away
from the issue. Simply not agreeing with the cause does not make
a person a traitor. That would mean if you disagreed with
Vietnam Iraq Kuwait Grenada or any other wore those soldiers
were traders as well. That is not the case.
[/quote]
Here is a scenario.
Image Obama in his last 12 months in office decides he really
wants to extremely change the American government. Make it an
oppressive, totalitarian, authoritarian Regime.
Imagine him sending armed personal to attempt to take away
everyone's firearms and vehicles. To take control of all
corporations and private business and property. Forcible
removing people from their homes, emptying all their bank and
retirement accounts.
Now the people rise up against him. Take up arms against his
forces.
Would they be traitors to America? To their homeland?
#Post#: 20006--------------------------------------------------
Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!
By: p2_d Date: July 24, 2015, 10:49 am
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Snickers sounds a lot like the premise Tim Mcveigh used to do
his bombing. What is his place in history patriot or terrorist?
Seems it all really rides on whether your side wins or loses how
history judges you.
#Post#: 20007--------------------------------------------------
Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!
By: wmd102 Date: July 24, 2015, 11:57 am
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[quote author=p2_d link=topic=1449.msg20006#msg20006
date=1437752989]
Snickers sounds a lot like the premise Tim Mcveigh used to do
his bombing. What is his place in history patriot or terrorist?
Seems it all really rides on whether your side wins or loses how
history judges you.
[/quote]
Actually it isn't even THAT simple. While most assassins are
considered to the lowest of traitors, the list is too long to
mention, there is one that stands out a hero even thou he was a
failure and the retribution brought on him and his co
conspirators was a backlash of public executions not seen before
or since.Operation Valkyrie was the name of that plot as lead by
Claus von Stauffenberg. The man who tried (unsuccessfully) to
kill Hitler with bomb in a briefcase. Go figure.
#Post#: 20008--------------------------------------------------
Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!
By: Snickers Date: July 24, 2015, 12:23 pm
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[quote author=p2_d link=topic=1449.msg20006#msg20006
date=1437752989]
Snickers sounds a lot like the premise Tim Mcveigh used to do
his bombing. What is his place in history patriot or terrorist?
Seems it all really rides on whether your side wins or loses how
history judges you.
[/quote]
What if Obama actually did those things?
Do the people have a right to stand up against him?
They might be considered traitors to Obama.
But to America? To our Constitution?
Were those that died in Tiananmen Square were traitors or
patriots?
They lost.
They were there protesting for the sake of the people and the
country against a tyrannical government.
#Post#: 20009--------------------------------------------------
Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!
By: rapids_60 Date: July 24, 2015, 3:45 pm
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[quote author=Snickers link=topic=1449.msg20003#msg20003
date=1437748544]
Imagine him sending armed personal to attempt to take away
everyone's firearms and vehicles.
[/quote]
So should we judge historical events by the standards in place
back then, or those in place now?[/quote]
Doesn't matter, history is what it is.
#Post#: 20011--------------------------------------------------
Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!
By: rapids_60 Date: July 24, 2015, 3:58 pm
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[quote author=Snickers link=topic=1449.msg20008#msg20008
date=1437758604]
What if Obama actually did those things?
Do the people have a right to stand up against him?
[/quote]
Perhaps we'll find out. I suspect Obama is preparing some
executive orders regarding firearms right now. (and those
orders aren't going to disarm the criminals)
I suspect few will stand up and those who do will be
marginalized as murder-loving gun nuts.
#Post#: 20012--------------------------------------------------
Re: ENOUGH!!!!!!
By: Snickers Date: July 24, 2015, 4:28 pm
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[quote author=rapids_60 link=topic=1449.msg20009#msg20009
date=1437770728]
There was a time when Human Beings were considered property,
just like a firearm or vehicle. At that time, perhaps you might
have a valid comparison. They may have felt they were doing the
right thing back then.
Today we do not consider humans "property" and looking back, the
Confederacy did not do the right thing in terms of human rights.
Fighting to retain slaves (the stated reason for the
confederacy) is not fighting totalitarianism or government
oppression, it's fighting to REMAIN the oppressors.
So should we judge historical events by the standards in place
back then, or those in place now?
[/quote]
"So should we judge historical events by the standards in place
back then, or those in place now?"
So then why is that flag from over 150 years ago be judged today
by some thin skinned activists.
It is part of our nation's history. It was only a battle flag .
It represented nothing other then the units that men belonged
to. it wasn't until later when the KKK hijacked it that it
became a perceived symbol of racism.
Why is it that a handful of racist morons dictate what a flag
that represents hundreds of thousands of past war veterans
stands for? And not the memory of those veterans?
And my comparisons are valid.
Things were different back then. Values were different.
Priorities were different. It was a very different world.
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