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#Post#: 19269--------------------------------------------------
Re: RTW
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: February 27, 2015, 7:46 am
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Sorry, I'm not buying it. If unions were so good, if they has
so much to offer, their members would not only fight for them
but would recruit for them as well. They've done it in the past
why not now?
#Post#: 19275--------------------------------------------------
Re: RTW
DIR By: Mr.steve
Date: February 27, 2015, 7:47 pm
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--- Quote ---
> Don't want to join? Don't apply at a union shop! What is
more free-market than that?
--- End Quote ---
When did "unions" take over the hiring process of a business?
--- Quote ---
> I don't know about you, but I'm looking forward to having
those who support this governmental overreach watch their wages
fall.
--- End Quote ---
Ahh yes and who could forget the wagner act of 1935. Was that
not the seed to spur on the Taft-Hartley act of 1947? It has
taken Wisconsin 68 years to garner enough balls to enact states
rights. Yup, definitely an over reach. ;D
#Post#: 19276--------------------------------------------------
Re: RTW
DIR By: Mr.steve
Date: February 27, 2015, 7:49 pm
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If anyone cares, here is a beautifully written( YES A COLLEGE
SENIOR THESIS) that can be quite clarifying in the misinfo being
put forth by the unions.
HTML http://www.johnwcooper.com/right-to-work-laws/right-to-work-laws.pdf
#Post#: 19277--------------------------------------------------
Re: RTW
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: February 28, 2015, 1:29 am
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--- Quote from: Mr.steve link ---
>
> If anyone cares, here is a beautifully written( YES A COLLEGE
SENIOR THESIS) that can be quite clarifying in the misinfo being
put forth by the unions.
>
--- End Quote ---
Interesting, but not accurate. His claim is that RTW states
don't really have lower wages on average, because there are
fewer unemployed, thus the average is pushed upwards.
Problem is, averages have no effect on any particular
individual's earnings. They still make 6-10% less than their
unionized counterparts.
John Menard's wealth pushes the average income up in the state
of Wisconsin. That has no effect on my actual paycheck, does
it?
--- Quote ---
> It has taken Wisconsin 68 years to garner enough balls to
enact states rights. Yup, definitely an over reach.
--- End Quote ---
States Rights have nothing to do with it. The feds are not
mandating unions. Because a state government CAN interfere does
not mean that it SHOULD. Particularly when the interference is
simply for partisan political gain. Walker and the republicans
hate unions because unions support their opponents. That is the
entire reason for this law.
Now here's a simple question: do you think Wisconsin will
attract ANY new business because of the right-to-work
legislation? If so, in what industry?
#Post#: 19280--------------------------------------------------
Re: RTW
DIR By: Mr.steve
Date: February 28, 2015, 7:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> They still make 6-10% less than their unionized counterparts.
--- End Quote ---
6 to 10% less? Seems to be about the same amount taken for
union dues so is it REALLY less?
--- Quote ---
> Now here's a simple question: do you think Wisconsin will
attract ANY new business because of the right-to-work
legislation? If so, in what industry?
>
--- End Quote ---
Manufacturing and distribution
#Post#: 19286--------------------------------------------------
Re: RTW
DIR By: Snickers
Date: February 28, 2015, 7:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
>
> Interesting, but not accurate. His claim is that RTW states
don't really have lower wages on average, because there are
fewer unemployed, thus the average is pushed upwards.
> Problem is, averages have no effect on any particular
individual's earnings. They still make 6-10% less than their
unionized counterparts.
> John Menard's wealth pushes the average income up in the state
of Wisconsin. That has no effect on my actual paycheck, does
it?
> States Rights have nothing to do with it. The feds are not
mandating unions. Because a state government CAN interfere does
not mean that it SHOULD. Particularly when the interference is
simply for partisan political gain. Walker and the republicans
hate unions because unions support their opponents. That is the
entire reason for this law.
>
> Now here's a simple question: do you think Wisconsin will
attract ANY new business because of the right-to-work
legislation? If so, in what industry?
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Those John Menards took the risks to start those business with
their own hard earned dollars. Thus creating all those jobs for
people to be able to earn money.
I don't recall any union leaders risking any of their own money
to create any jobs for anyone.
I also read somewhere where most Right To Work States have a
lower cost of living. Thus people can buy more with their wages.
Between that and not having union dues it makes up for that 6-10
% difference. Plus on top of that there is the bonus of having
more jobs available in Right To Work States because those States
draw more industries and business to locate there.
#Post#: 19287--------------------------------------------------
Re: RTW
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: February 28, 2015, 7:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> States Rights have nothing to do with it. The feds are not
mandating unions. Because a state government CAN interfere does
not mean that it SHOULD.
--- End Quote ---
States rights have everything to do with it. Feds have nothing
to do with it. OTOH unions are national. Each state has the
right to regulate or not regulate as they see fit. However, I
really don't see how giving somebody a choice of whether to join
a union or not is a bad thing. This is a decrease in
regulation, not an increase. Half of the states are now Right
to work. You don't think this is some kind of message?
--- Quote ---
> Particularly when the interference is simply for partisan
political gain.
--- End Quote ---
Life and how we live and do each thing we do is always for gain.
We work hard at our job for gain. We elect our legislators to
do our job, not theirs. They are their to serve the will of the
people. The majority of the state has voted republican
therefore the people have spoken. Walker and article 10 were on
the ballot when he was fighting for his job during the recall
and he won the majority. This is what the people of WI want.
If it wasn't Walker would have been defeated. Especially after
all the union manpower and money poured into the state.
#Post#: 19292--------------------------------------------------
Re: RTW
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: March 1, 2015, 12:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mr.steve link ---
>
> 6 to 10% less? Seems to be about the same amount taken for
union dues so is it REALLY less?
>
--- End Quote ---
Good point. I don't know what dues cost. (never belonged).
#Post#: 19293--------------------------------------------------
Re: RTW
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: March 1, 2015, 12:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Snickers link ---
>
> Those John Menards took the risks to start those business with
their own hard earned dollars. Thus creating all those jobs for
people to be able to earn money.
> I don't recall any union leaders risking any of their own
money to create any jobs for anyone.
>
> I also read somewhere where most Right To Work States have a
lower cost of living. Thus people can buy more with their wages.
>
> Between that and not having union dues it makes up for that
6-10 % difference. Plus on top of that there is the bonus of
having more jobs available in Right To Work States because those
States draw more industries and business to locate there.
>
--- End Quote ---
I didn't mean to imply I have an issue with John Menard, lol.
I don't begrudge anyone the money they've earned and agree with
you on the risks taken.
Point was that averages don't mean individuals do better.
I also read that cost of living is lower in some RTW states, I'd
guess because most are in the South where cost of living is much
lower than in the Northeast and Midwest.
There are many reasons industry locates in southern states,
RTW is just one of them. Michigan is RTW and doesn't attract
jobs with anywhere near the Southern state's success.
I'm not sure what industry is staying OUT of Wisconsin over
union fears, but I bet not much changes job-wise after it's
passed. We're 10% or less union as it is.
What WILL change is the amount of money unions donate to the
democrats, but that's really the whole point, isn't it.
#Post#: 19294--------------------------------------------------
Re: RTW
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: March 1, 2015, 12:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
>
> , I really don't see how giving somebody a choice of whether
to join a union or not is a bad thing.
>
--- End Quote ---
That is exactly my point. It should be your choice. You make
that choice when you decide where to work.
If you don't like the pay, go elsewhere. If you don't like
the benefits, go elsewhere. If you don't want to join the
union, go elsewhere. Funny thing is y'all scream when the
left wants to regulate the first two things, but applaud when
the right regulates the third. :D
Back to choices. The state is removing your choice to join a
strong, effective union.
You can join a powerless social club that's unable to bargain
on your behalf if you like, but it is not the same thing. What's
left are unions in name only.
Truth be told, I'm really not a huge union fan. My industry is
heavily unionized in some areas (CWA, IBEW) and I've always
avoided joining.
It's pretty easy to not join a union if you don't want to,
don't apply at union shops. 90% of jobs in this state are NOT
unionized. Pick one. You really don't need big brother to step
in.
The left demonizes the wealthy and the right demonizes labor
unions. Perhaps best if neither gets to destroy their enemy.
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