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#Post#: 19219--------------------------------------------------
Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: February 24, 2015, 6:50 am
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--- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
>
> Good question. Why are we bombing? Do you think it's
effective? (I don't) They merely keep increasing the numbers of
hostages they execute.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hostages and innocents. The Egyptian Christians weren't
hostages, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Yazidis trapped in the mountains after being forced from their
homes. Do you think the bombings are forcing them to do this?
This mornings news reports at least 70 ore Syrian citizens
(otherwise known as Christians) kidnapped. Did US bombings
cause this you think? (hint we aren't bombing Syria that much)
Do I think the bombing is effective? Dropping a handful of
bombs a day isn't any kind of war I've seen in my lifetime.
When Bush started his air campaign they were dropping in excess
of 800 bombs per day. Right now, comparing the two all Obama is
doing is annoying them.
Interesting note in the news yesterday. The family of the aid
worker who was killed said that releasing the Taliban five for a
deserter made it more difficult for them to obtain the release
of their daughter. Now that's one of those "what if" scenario's
I don't like to play because ISIS really isn't know for
releasing prisoners alive, but I can clearly see their
frustration with the Obama administration. So can the rest of
the world.
#Post#: 19220--------------------------------------------------
Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: February 24, 2015, 6:59 am
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Interesting article.
--- Quote ---
>
> Former President George W. Bush is remaining mum on the
tragedy unfolding in Iraq. But as an army of bloodthirsty
Islamists rampages across Iraq with the goal of establishing a
7th century religious tyranny -- a caliphate -- it's worth
recalling who years ago had predicted this would happen if the
Democrats got their way.
>
> It was President George W. Bush and his top officials.
>
> They warned early on that Iraq was ripe for the rise of an
Islamic caliphate -- either in a failed state created by Saddam
Hussein or, they later contended, if the U.S.-led coalition
bugged out without leaving behind a stable Iraq. Two years into
the U.S.-led occupation, in 2005, Secretary of Defense Donald H.
Rumsfeld warned that a premature withdrawal would be disastrous
-- and he foresaw what has in fact happened. He explained, "Iraq
would serve as the base of a new Islamic caliphate to extend
throughout the Middle East, and which would threaten legitimate
governments in Europe, Africa and Asia."
>
> Vice President Dick Cheney also warned of the rise of a
caliphate if the U.S. withdrew before Iraq was capable of
governing and defending itself. "They talk about wanting to
re-establish what you could refer to as the seventh-century
caliphate" to be "governed by Sharia law, the most rigid
interpretation of the Koran," he said.
>
> Gen. John P. Abizaid, then America's top commander in the
Middle East, also offered prescient testimony in 2005 to the
House Armed Services Committee, foreseeing what the terror
masters would do in a weak Iraqi state.
>
> "They will try to re-establish a caliphate throughout the
entire Muslim world. Just as we had the opportunity to learn
what the Nazis were going to do from Hitler's world in 'Mein
Kampf,' we need to learn what these people intend to do from
their own words."
>
> Liberals jeered at such dire predictions -- and especially at
the repeated use of the word "caliphate."
>
> The New York Times, for instance, ran a piece on December 12,
2005, that mocked the forgoing Bush-administration officials for
their warnings of a "caliphate" -- portraying them as
foreign-policy amateurs peddling an alarmist view of the Middle
East. Wrote reporter Elisabeth Bumiller:
>
> "A number of scholars and former government officials take
strong issue with the administration's warning about a new
caliphate, and compare it to the fear of communism spread during
the Cold War. They say that although Al Qaeda's statements do
indeed describe a caliphate as a goal, the administration is
exaggerating the magnitude of the threat as it seeks to gain
support for its policies in Iraq."
>
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/06/george_w_bush_and_neocons_vindicated.html
#Post#: 19225--------------------------------------------------
Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: February 24, 2015, 7:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
>
> Hostages and innocents. The Egyptian Christians weren't
hostages, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Yazidis trapped in the mountains after being forced from their
homes. Do you think the bombings are forcing them to do this?
>
>
> Do I think the bombing is effective? Dropping a handful of
bombs a day isn't any kind of war I've seen in my lifetime.
When Bush started his air campaign they were dropping in excess
of 800 bombs per day.
>
--- End Quote ---
The bombing isn't causing them to execute hostages and
innocents. But it isn't slowing them down either.
Bush dropped more bombs? Sure. He had authorization from
congress to launch a full-scale war.
Obama has been left on his own by a congress that would rather
go golfing.
Have they called their recess short to get back to work? Nah,
didn't think so, and we all know how well Executive Actions that
bypass congress go over. >:(
As to your last article- "Bush and the neocon's vindicated".
What a chuckle. The cheerleaders at the American Thinker have
their heads so far up the neocon's asses they can't see the
light of day.
Had those clowns not invaded Iraq in the first place, there
would be no ISIS, nor any need to occupy the region.
Bush and the Neocon's destabilized the entire region, leaving a
complete power vacuum and creating terrorist organizations where
none formerly existed. And we're supposed to stay there en
perpetuity to hold together the disaster we created. "until
Iraq can defend itself", lol. That day will never come.
I wonder of those idiots can vindicate that?
#Post#: 19229--------------------------------------------------
Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: February 24, 2015, 8:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Bush dropped more bombs? Sure. He had authorization from
congress to launch a full-scale war.
--- End Quote ---
And this has slowed Obama down how? Are you shifting the blame
here?
--- Quote ---
>
> Obama has been left on his own by a congress that would rather
go golfing.
> Have they called their recess short to get back to work? Nah,
didn't think so, and we all know how well Executive Actions that
bypass congress go over.
--- End Quote ---
Correct me iff I'm wrong here but doesn't the President have the
authority to call Congress back? Are you shifting the blame here
--- Quote ---
> As to your last article- "Bush and the neocon's vindicated".
What a chuckle. The cheerleaders at the American Thinker have
their heads so far up the neocon's asses they can't see the
light of day.
--- End Quote ---
Please, don't waste my and everyone else's time here shooting
the messenger. Show where the message is wrong.
--- Quote ---
> Bush and the Neocon's destabilized the entire region, leaving
a complete power vacuum and creating terrorist organizations
where none formerly existed.
--- End Quote ---
Another one of those "what if" arguments that I hate to engage
in. I do get a chuckle out of your statement that the region
was somehow "stable". I also chuckle about your statement that
ISIS would never exist if not for Bush invading Iraq while
totally ignoring the rapid growth of ISIS in Syria, where there
was no US presence. Also ignoring the fact that if Obama would
have listened to his advisors this probably wouldn't have
happened either. This isn't me saying it, it's the experts in
the region.
#Post#: 19231--------------------------------------------------
Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: February 24, 2015, 11:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
>
> This isn't me saying it, it's the experts in the region.
>
--- End Quote ---
It's exactly the sort of opinions you get if you only put your
faith in right-wing sources.
Bush good. Obama bad. etc, etc. Truth is they both stink. Bush
knocked the balance of power out of whack in the middle east and
Obama has no clue or ability how to restore it.
The LAST opinion I want on how to fix this mess is that of the
group that created it.
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