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       #Post#: 19219--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: trollslayer
       Date: February 24, 2015, 6:50 am
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       --- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
       >
       > Good question. Why are we bombing? Do you think it's
       effective? (I don't)  They merely keep increasing the numbers of
       hostages they execute.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Hostages and innocents.  The Egyptian Christians weren't
       hostages, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
       Yazidis trapped in the mountains after being forced from their
       homes.  Do you think the bombings are forcing them to do this?
       This mornings news reports at least 70 ore Syrian citizens
       (otherwise known as Christians) kidnapped.  Did US bombings
       cause this you think? (hint we aren't bombing Syria that much)
       Do I think the bombing is effective?  Dropping a handful of
       bombs a day isn't any kind of war I've seen in my lifetime.
       When Bush started his air campaign they were dropping in excess
       of 800 bombs per day.  Right now, comparing the two all Obama is
       doing is annoying them.
       Interesting note in the news yesterday.  The family of the aid
       worker who was killed said that releasing the Taliban five for a
       deserter made it more difficult for them to obtain the release
       of their daughter.  Now that's one of those "what if" scenario's
       I don't like to play because ISIS really isn't know for
       releasing prisoners alive, but I can clearly see their
       frustration with the Obama administration.  So can the rest of
       the world.
       #Post#: 19220--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: trollslayer
       Date: February 24, 2015, 6:59 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Interesting article.
       --- Quote ---
       >
       > Former President George W. Bush is remaining mum on the
       tragedy unfolding in Iraq. But as an army of bloodthirsty
       Islamists rampages across Iraq with the goal of establishing a
       7th century religious tyranny -- a caliphate -- it's worth
       recalling who years ago had predicted this would happen if the
       Democrats got their way.
       >
       > It was President George W. Bush and his top officials.
       >
       > They warned early on that Iraq was ripe for the rise of an
       Islamic caliphate -- either in a failed state created by Saddam
       Hussein or, they later contended, if the U.S.-led coalition
       bugged out without leaving behind a stable Iraq. Two years into
       the U.S.-led occupation, in 2005, Secretary of Defense Donald H.
       Rumsfeld warned that a premature withdrawal would be disastrous
       -- and he foresaw what has in fact happened. He explained, "Iraq
       would serve as the base of a new Islamic caliphate to extend
       throughout the Middle East, and which would threaten legitimate
       governments in Europe, Africa and Asia."
       >
       > Vice President Dick Cheney also warned of the rise of a
       caliphate if the U.S. withdrew before Iraq was capable of
       governing and defending itself. "They talk about wanting to
       re-establish what you could refer to as the seventh-century
       caliphate" to be "governed by Sharia law, the most rigid
       interpretation of the Koran," he said.
       >
       > Gen. John P. Abizaid, then America's top commander in the
       Middle East, also offered prescient testimony in 2005 to the
       House Armed Services Committee, foreseeing what the terror
       masters would do in a weak Iraqi state.
       >
       > "They will try to re-establish a caliphate throughout the
       entire Muslim world. Just as we had the opportunity to learn
       what the Nazis were going to do from Hitler's world in 'Mein
       Kampf,' we need to learn what these people intend to do from
       their own words."
       >
       > Liberals jeered at such dire predictions -- and especially at
       the repeated use of the word "caliphate."
       >
       > The New York Times, for instance, ran a piece on December 12,
       2005, that mocked the forgoing Bush-administration officials for
       their warnings of a "caliphate" -- portraying them as
       foreign-policy amateurs peddling an alarmist view of the Middle
       East. Wrote reporter Elisabeth Bumiller:
       >
       > "A number of scholars and former government officials take
       strong issue with the administration's warning about a new
       caliphate, and compare it to the fear of communism spread during
       the Cold War. They say that although Al Qaeda's statements do
       indeed describe a caliphate as a goal, the administration is
       exaggerating the magnitude of the threat as it seeks to gain
       support for its policies in Iraq."
       >
       --- End Quote ---
  HTML http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/06/george_w_bush_and_neocons_vindicated.html
       #Post#: 19225--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: rapids_60
       Date: February 24, 2015, 7:57 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
       >
       > Hostages and innocents.  The Egyptian Christians weren't
       hostages, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
       Yazidis trapped in the mountains after being forced from their
       homes.  Do you think the bombings are forcing them to do this?
       >
       >
       > Do I think the bombing is effective?  Dropping a handful of
       bombs a day isn't any kind of war I've seen in my lifetime.
       When Bush started his air campaign they were dropping in excess
       of 800 bombs per day.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       The bombing isn't causing them to execute hostages and
       innocents.  But it isn't slowing them down either.
       Bush dropped more bombs?  Sure.  He had authorization from
       congress to launch a full-scale war.
       Obama has been left on his own by a congress that would rather
       go golfing.
       Have they called their recess short to get back to work?  Nah,
       didn't think so, and we all know how well Executive Actions that
       bypass congress go over.  >:(
       As to your last article- "Bush and the neocon's vindicated".
       What a chuckle.   The  cheerleaders at the American Thinker have
       their heads so far up the neocon's asses they can't see the
       light of day.
       Had those clowns not invaded Iraq in the first place, there
       would be no ISIS, nor any need to occupy the region.
       Bush and the Neocon's destabilized the entire region, leaving a
       complete power vacuum and creating terrorist organizations where
       none formerly existed.  And we're supposed to stay there en
       perpetuity to hold together the disaster we created.  "until
       Iraq can defend itself", lol.  That day will never come.
       I wonder of those idiots can vindicate that?
       #Post#: 19229--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: trollslayer
       Date: February 24, 2015, 8:29 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > Bush dropped more bombs?  Sure.  He had authorization from
       congress to launch a full-scale war.
       --- End Quote ---
       And this has slowed Obama down how?  Are you shifting the blame
       here?
       --- Quote ---
       >
       > Obama has been left on his own by a congress that would rather
       go golfing.
       > Have they called their recess short to get back to work?  Nah,
       didn't think so, and we all know how well Executive Actions that
       bypass congress go over.
       --- End Quote ---
       Correct me iff I'm wrong here but doesn't the President have the
       authority to call Congress back? Are you shifting the blame here
       --- Quote ---
       > As to your last article- "Bush and the neocon's vindicated".
       What a chuckle.   The  cheerleaders at the American Thinker have
       their heads so far up the neocon's asses they can't see the
       light of day.
       --- End Quote ---
       Please, don't waste my and everyone else's time here shooting
       the messenger.  Show where the message is wrong.
       --- Quote ---
       > Bush and the Neocon's destabilized the entire region, leaving
       a complete power vacuum and creating terrorist organizations
       where none formerly existed.
       --- End Quote ---
       Another one of those "what if" arguments that I hate to engage
       in.  I do get a chuckle out of your statement that the region
       was somehow "stable".  I also chuckle about your statement that
       ISIS would never exist if not for Bush invading Iraq while
       totally ignoring the rapid growth of ISIS in Syria, where there
       was no US presence.  Also ignoring the fact that if Obama would
       have listened to his advisors this probably wouldn't have
       happened either. This isn't me saying it, it's the experts in
       the region.
       #Post#: 19231--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: rapids_60
       Date: February 24, 2015, 11:01 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
       >
       > This isn't me saying it, it's the experts in the region.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       It's exactly the sort of opinions you get if you only put your
       faith in right-wing sources.
       Bush good. Obama bad. etc, etc.  Truth is they both stink.  Bush
       knocked the balance of power out of whack in the middle east and
       Obama has no clue or ability how to restore it.
       The LAST opinion I want on how to fix this mess is that of the
       group that created it.
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