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       #Post#: 19199--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: Linda Lou
       Date: February 21, 2015, 6:40 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
       >
       > Who are my "like minded people"?
       > My idea is to leave the area  and let them kill each other.
       Just like they've done for 2,000 years.
       > If they attack France, France can deal with it unless they
       specifically request our help.  Unless they attack the US, we've
       got better things to do.
       > I will judge (any) president on whether he keeps our country
       safe. That's his job.  Being world policeman is not.
       >
       > You know a surefire way to win a gunfight?  Don't be there.  A
       Christian V. Muslim war, which is exactly what ISIS wants,  will
       drag on for eternity.  The Muslim extremists need to be crushed
       by other Muslims.  We can only win by not being sucked in.
       >
       > There are those who want Obama to do "more".  More than send
       advisors, more than targeted bombing runs, make sure the world
       knows it's MUSLIMS MUSLIMS MUSLIMS that we are fighting. (as
       though they don't know already)   If that goes south, it's
       exactly the fault of those who wanted it.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Boom. That's the way I've always felt. It's not. Our. Fight.
       #Post#: 19200--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: trollslayer
       Date: February 21, 2015, 7:23 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Rapids and Linda, with all due respect this type of thinking is
       that caused 911.  The ultimate goal of any terrorist
       organization, (the name doesn't matter because the goal remains
       the same) is to attack America and kill as many as possible.  To
       just sit back and let this poison simmer is to be asking for
       another 911 attack all over again.
       They have already attacked the US.  They've killed Americans
       abroad and have already convinced Americans to kill other
       Americans.  Remember cops being attacked by a hatchet wielding
       mad man?  ISIS inspired remember?  You don't consider that an
       attack?  There are others just look them up.
       Another problem?  ICE doesn't arrest anyone and hold them
       anymore and our borders are more porous than Sponge Bob.
       Temporary Visa enforcement doesn't exist.  Another lesson we
       haven't learned since 911 and as grown worse under this
       administration.
       Finally, we aren't fighting "MUSLIMS MUSLIMS MUSLIMS".  That is
       the Straw man the administration pushes.  The correct term, the
       one the administration is afraid use is "Muslim extremists'.
       Kinda funny when you think about it.  Homeland Security puts out
       an alert naming "right wing extremists" as one of the larger
       threats to the US but is afraid to use the term Muslim
       extremists.
       If we learned nothing from 911 we should have learned, we can
       not let this poison ferment and grow overseas, eventually it
       will find it's way over here.  It's not a matter of if, it's a
       matter of when.
       #Post#: 19201--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: rapids_60
       Date: February 21, 2015, 11:49 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
       >
       > If we learned nothing from 911 we should have learned, we can
       not let this poison ferment and grow overseas, eventually it
       will find it's way over here.  It's not a matter of if, it's a
       matter of when.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yet the more we fight them over there, the more people they
       manage to recruit.   Other middle eastern Muslims will have to
       put the lid back on that pot, and they are starting to. It's
       counter productive for us to even be over there.
       We DO need to tighten up our borders, and I don't mean in a
       ham-fisted TSA/DHS sort of way.  Israel hasn't had a terrorist
       board a plane in decades, they catch them before they get too
       far.  They offered to show us what they were doing.  We weren't
       interested. :(
       Instead we are using "Terrorism" to make military contractors
       very wealthy and to chip away at our own bill of rights.  It
       doesn't suit either goal to actually end the problem.
       #Post#: 19202--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: Notso
       Date: February 22, 2015, 6:51 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
       >
       > Rapids and Linda, with all due respect this type of thinking
       is that caused 911.  The ultimate goal of any terrorist
       organization, (the name doesn't matter because the goal remains
       the same) is to attack America and kill as many as possible.  To
       just sit back and let this poison simmer is to be asking for
       another 911 attack all over again.
       > They have already attacked the US.  They've killed Americans
       abroad and have already convinced Americans to kill other
       Americans.  Remember cops being attacked by a hatchet wielding
       mad man?  ISIS inspired remember?  You don't consider that an
       attack?  There are others just look them up.
       > Another problem?  ICE doesn't arrest anyone and hold them
       anymore and our borders are more porous than Sponge Bob.
       Temporary Visa enforcement doesn't exist.  Another lesson we
       haven't learned since 911 and as grown worse under this
       administration.
       > Finally, we aren't fighting "MUSLIMS MUSLIMS MUSLIMS".  That
       is the Straw man the administration pushes.  The correct term,
       the one the administration is afraid use is "Muslim extremists'.
       Kinda funny when you think about it.  Homeland Security puts
       out an alert naming "right wing extremists" as one of the larger
       threats to the US but is afraid to use the term Muslim
       extremists.
       > If we learned nothing from 911 we should have learned, we can
       not let this poison ferment and grow overseas, eventually it
       will find it's way over here.  It's not a matter of if, it's a
       matter of when.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       That's probably why we should define who they are so we can
       figure out their major beef.  Some have a point thinking it may
       help their recruiting as we meddle in.  Others wonder if they
       are telling us the truth when we ask them, that's usually that
       they hold us responsible for exposing their people to our sinful
       western values.
       #Post#: 19203--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: trollslayer
       Date: February 22, 2015, 8:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
       >
       > Yet the more we fight them over there, the more people they
       manage to recruit.   Other middle eastern Muslims will have to
       put the lid back on that pot, and they are starting to. It's
       counter productive for us to even be over there.
       > We DO need to tighten up our borders, and I don't mean in a
       ham-fisted TSA/DHS sort of way.  Israel hasn't had a terrorist
       board a plane in decades, they catch them before they get too
       far.  They offered to show us what they were doing.  We weren't
       interested. :(
       > Instead we are using "Terrorism" to make military contractors
       very wealthy and to chip away at our own bill of rights.  It
       doesn't suit either goal to actually end the problem.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Us fighting them really isn't drawing in more recruits.  It's
       like saying Gitmo is a recruiting tool without finding a reason
       for the bombings in Tanzania, the USS Cole, the first Trade
       Center bombing etc etc.  Middleground long ago stated we needed
       to use our military to seal our borders  Set up bases along the
       way and use our troops to man them.
       Unfortunately the Israeli's use profiling heavily in their
       airport security program.  With the current administration in
       place, I'm sure you can understand why the idea of copying what
       they're doing was rejected.
       I do leave you with one question.  How does one "end" terrorism?
       This is an idea the Obama administration has used in the past
       saying "the war on terrorism must end".  Unfortunately, the
       terrorists don't see it that way.  They want to fight to the
       death, whether it be theirs or ours.  I prefer the former over
       the latter.
       #Post#: 19204--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: trollslayer
       Date: February 22, 2015, 8:08 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Notso link ---
       >
       > That's probably why we should define who they are so we can
       figure out their major beef.  Some have a point thinking it may
       help their recruiting as we meddle in.  Others wonder if they
       are telling us the truth when we ask them, that's usually that
       they hold us responsible for exposing their people to our sinful
       western values.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Exactly!!  Some will say they've been recruited because we've
       been bombing them while totally ignoring the reason why we're
       bombing them.
       #Post#: 19209--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: rapids_60
       Date: February 22, 2015, 11:36 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
       >
       > Middleground long ago stated we needed to use our military to
       seal our borders  Set up bases along the way and use our troops
       to man them.
       > Unfortunately the Israeli's use profiling heavily in their
       airport security program.  With the current administration in
       place, I'm sure you can understand why the idea of copying what
       they're doing was rejected.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       It is unconstitutional to use our military for domestic
       security.  National Guard perhaps.
       The offer by the Israelis was turned down by Bush, not Obama.
       Fighting Muslim extremists has to be done by other Muslims.
       We can go put the genie back in the bottle, but  once we do,
       WE become the  default enemy for Muslims to fight.
       The moment we leave, the people we armed to fight Terrorists
       will turn our weapons on their neighbors and sooner or later
       another ISIS-type group will start up. How many times do we need
       to repeat the same debacle before we learn something?
       We leave Afghanistan and it collapses right back into extremist
       hands.  We leave Iraq and the exact same happens.
       You can't swoop in, fix it and leave.  Nor can you train the
       locals to not drop their weapons and run once you leave.   You
       simply cannot leave.  Ever.
       #Post#: 19212--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: rapids_60
       Date: February 23, 2015, 12:10 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > I do leave you with one question.  How does one "end"
       terrorism?
       --- End Quote ---
       You can't.
       --- Quote ---
       > Exactly!!  Some will say they've been recruited because we've
       been bombing them while totally ignoring the reason why we're
       bombing them.
       --- End Quote ---
       The imaginary Great Satan they've heard of but never seen is one
       thing, the Great Satan that bombs their homeland is quite
       another.
       What do you think would happen to US military recruiting if ISIL
       repeatedly bombed the USA?  Think there might be a surge in
       recruits?
       You think the same doesn't happen on their turf?
       
       #Post#: 19213--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: trollslayer
       Date: February 23, 2015, 6:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
       >
       > You can't.
       > The imaginary Great Satan they've heard of but never seen is
       one thing, the Great Satan that bombs their homeland is quite
       another.
       > What do you think would happen to US military recruiting if
       ISIL  repeatedly bombed the USA?  Think there might be a surge
       in recruits?
       > You think the same doesn't happen on their turf?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Yes, but why are we bombing?  That's the part of the equation
       that gets ignored.  Unless you propose we get hit and not hit
       back?  Remember the dancing in the streets after 911?  Another
       great recruiting tool.
       #Post#: 19217--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The new plan to stop ISIS
   DIR By: rapids_60
       Date: February 23, 2015, 11:02 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
       >
       > Yes, but why are we bombing?  That's the part of the equation
       that gets ignored.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Good question. Why are we bombing? Do you think it's effective?
       (I don't)  They merely keep increasing the numbers of hostages
       they execute.
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