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#Post#: 18884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Obama "paralyzed" on terrorism
By: rapids_60 Date: January 31, 2015, 10:51 pm
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You are aware that it's our ally Turkey that put their foot
down on arming the Kurds, right?
Turkey considers the Kurds and the PYD (who Turkey has been
fighting for 30 years) a terrorist group. They insist we not
arm them as those arms will be eventually turned against the
Turks.
This is pretty much the whole problem over there. There aren't
any easy answers, or even any difficult but workable ones.
It's a tangled mess that can't be solved by turning one group of
locals against another. It will require a full-time babysitter
in the forum of long-term US occupation. There's no political
will for that on either side. Nor frankly is it our job.
#Post#: 18886--------------------------------------------------
Re: Obama "paralyzed" on terrorism
By: Snickers Date: January 31, 2015, 11:07 pm
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[quote author=rapids_60 link=topic=1369.msg18884#msg18884
date=1422766309]
You are aware that it's our ally Turkey that put their foot
down on arming the Kurds, right?
Turkey considers the Kurds and the PYD (who Turkey has been
fighting for 30 years) a terrorist group. They insist we not
arm them as those arms will be eventually turned against the
Turks.
This is pretty much the whole problem over there. There aren't
any easy answers, or even any difficult but workable ones.
It's a tangled mess that can't be solved by turning one group of
locals against another. It will require a full-time babysitter
in the forum of long-term US occupation. There's no political
will for that on either side. Nor frankly is it our job.
[/quote]
Turkey is more of an ally to ISIS then they are to us.
Turkey should be given the ultimatum. Either join in the fight
against ISIS or be kicked out of the EU and NATO.
#Post#: 18888--------------------------------------------------
Re: Obama "paralyzed" on terrorism
By: rapids_60 Date: January 31, 2015, 11:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Snickers link=topic=1369.msg18886#msg18886
date=1422767270]
Turkey is more of an ally to ISIS then they are to us.
[/quote]
I agree, and this just further illustrates the problem. If we
want things cleaned up, we'll have to do it ourselves. Arming
this group or that will end up with them fighting people we
never intended with our weapons.
The locals have other allegiances much stronger than their
ties with us.
#Post#: 18889--------------------------------------------------
Re: Obama "paralyzed" on terrorism
By: trollslayer Date: February 1, 2015, 7:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=rapids_60 link=topic=1369.msg18884#msg18884
date=1422766309]
You are aware that it's our ally Turkey that put their foot
down on arming the Kurds, right?
Turkey considers the Kurds and the PYD (who Turkey has been
fighting for 30 years) a terrorist group. They insist we not
arm them as those arms will be eventually turned against the
Turks.
This is pretty much the whole problem over there. There aren't
any easy answers, or even any difficult but workable ones.
It's a tangled mess that can't be solved by turning one group of
locals against another. It will require a full-time babysitter
in the forum of long-term US occupation. There's no political
will for that on either side. Nor frankly is it our job.
[/quote]
I'm very aware of the Turkish situation. Denying the US rights
to fly over their country previously. Pointing their tanks away
from the fighting in Kobani during the heaviest fighting.
Failing to intervene when ISIS did over run the town despite it
being right on their border. Refusing to allow the Kurds to
resupply themselves with arms and manpower. We wouldn't be
turning one group against another. As you've already stated,
they've already turned. The idea that you say there is no will
for a long term occupation is incorrect. Obama has been
roundly criticized by those on both the left and the right for
completely withdrawing from Iraq and also by those in the
military. Why do you suppose we're leaving troops in
Afghanistan?
Obama's quest to fulfill his campaign promises to close Gitmo
and pull all troops out of Iraq are foolhardy. One of the
Taliban five have already contacted his old friends, recidivism
rate is roughly 30%. Pulling all the troops out of Iraq helped
get us in the situation we're in and we're now slowly trickling
troops back into Iraq. How did that work out for him?
#Post#: 18890--------------------------------------------------
Re: Obama "paralyzed" on terrorism
By: trollslayer Date: February 1, 2015, 7:26 am
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[quote]Turkey should be given the ultimatum. Either join in the
fight against ISIS or be kicked out of the EU and NATO.[/quote]
The EU and NATO both lack balls. That will never happen. I
like what Jordan did. Told ISIS if you kill our hostage we will
hang every one of the prisoners we have of yours, then we'll be
coming for you. This is the kind of language animals like that
understand. Not the mamby pamby pansy type "we strongly
condemn the killings" we've repeatedly sent.
#Post#: 18891--------------------------------------------------
Re: Obama "paralyzed" on terrorism
By: Linda Lou Date: February 1, 2015, 8:03 am
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"You come after one of ours with a knife, we go after one of
yours with a gun. You put one of ours in the hospital, we put
one of yours in the MORGUE! That is the Chicago way!"
I agree, Trolly.
#Post#: 18901--------------------------------------------------
Re: Obama "paralyzed" on terrorism
By: Snickers Date: February 1, 2015, 2:18 pm
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We are going to have boots on the ground in Ukraine with in a
month or two. Advisors and trainers. We will also have more
boots on the ground for the ISIS threat.
#Post#: 18907--------------------------------------------------
Re: Obama "paralyzed" on terrorism
By: rapids_60 Date: February 1, 2015, 11:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=trollslayer link=topic=1369.msg18889#msg18889
date=1422796860]
The idea that you say there is no will for a long term
occupation is incorrect.
[/quote]
Which Poll do you want? Here's the most recent PEW:
[quote]And as other polls have shown, the public is opposed to
the United States deploying ground troops to fight ISIS: 55%
oppose sending U.S. ground troops to fight Islamic militants in
Iraq and Syria, while 39% say they would favor this.[/quote]
And of that 39%, the vast majority are Republicans, with
democrats and indies largely against sending troops
(reason/ruppe poll).
[img]
HTML http://cloudfront-media.reason.com/mc/eekins/2014_10/airstrikes/picture1.png?h=349&w=300[/img]
On one hand you are telling me we don't have to do a long-term
occupation to be successful while on the other you complain that
Obama did not continue with a long-term occupation.
Which is it? You can't have both.
#Post#: 18908--------------------------------------------------
Re: Obama "paralyzed" on terrorism
By: rapids_60 Date: February 2, 2015, 12:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=trollslayer link=topic=1369.msg18889#msg18889
date=1422796860]
I'm very aware of the Turkish situation.
[/quote]
Then why did you suggest we do what we clearly cannot- supply
arms to the enemy of a NATO ally?
When the Kurds turn our arms on our allies the Turks instead of
ISIS, I wonder who you'd blame for that bad decision. Obama?
;)
#Post#: 18909--------------------------------------------------
Re: Obama "paralyzed" on terrorism
By: rapids_60 Date: February 2, 2015, 12:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Linda Lou link=topic=1369.msg18891#msg18891
date=1422799394]
"You come after one of ours with a knife, we go after one of
yours with a gun. You put one of ours in the hospital, we put
one of yours in the MORGUE! That is the Chicago way!"
[/quote]
They appear to subscribe to the Ho Chi Minh philosophy, which
says:
You will kill 10 of our men, we will kill 1 of yours and in the
end it will be you who tires of it.
I'm not sure losing their own means anything significant to
them, they become martyrs with special rewards in the afterlife.
These are people who strap bombs to their own children, they
hate us more than they love life or family.
They seem to get more upset when we destroy artifacts of their
religion..books, mosques, etc. Blowing those up in a 10:1 ratio
might get their attention.
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