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#Post#: 17703--------------------------------------------------
Keystone Pipeline: No longer economically viable
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: November 15, 2014, 8:32 pm
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Killed by "Drill Baby, Drill".
--- Quote ---
> Economics no longer make Keystone pipeline viable
>
> What if they voted for a pipeline but nobody came?
>
> As Congress rushes to approve the long-delayed Keystone XL
pipeline, it is questionable whether or not the project will
make as much of a difference as proponents expect. Since June,
crude oil has declined by 28 percent, pushing the price that oil
from new wells in Canada may command below what the expected
cost will be to produce it.
>
> The so-called "heavy oil" extracted from sand in Alberta,
which the proposed pipeline would carry to Nebraska, en route to
refineries on the Gulf Coast, will cost between $85 and $110 to
produce, depending on which drilling technology is used,
according to a report in July by the Canadian Energy Research
Institute, a nonprofit whose work is often cited by Keystone
proponents. West Texas Intermediate crude oil traded today at
$76.67.
--- End Quote ---
HTML http://www.cnbc.com/id/102181913#.
#Post#: 17709--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keystone Pipeline: No longer economically viable
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: November 16, 2014, 7:16 am
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--- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
>
> Killed by "Drill Baby, Drill".
>
>
HTML http://www.cnbc.com/id/102181913#.
>
--- End Quote ---
The article seems to assume that oil prices are going to stay
this low forever. Oil has dropped yet we still continue to bring
in this oil via rail and truck. Apparently somebody is still
making money from it.
#Post#: 17714--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keystone Pipeline: No longer economically viable
DIR By: Notso
Date: November 16, 2014, 9:15 am
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If approved it will get built, might be a little slower with
lower prices but it will get built. 10 years from now all the
new projects will not have the strip mining look with the oceans
of polluted water. It will all be done underground using
microwaves or alternating currency in the well pipe itself.
Much less energy intensive and environmentally clean considering
it's a dirty business by definition. Much like fracking will
transition to using lasers stead of that dirty high pressure
chemical.
I'm gussin they will also figger out how to make this stuff
float iffin it escapes the pipeline, makin it like the stuff the
Beverly Hillbilly Jed Clampett shot at where it wants to stay on
the surface.
Half the country often seems to forget scientists also work for
Corporations, they just do not have tenure and get fired if they
do not produce.
Also gotta remember, this pipeline is designed to haul tens of
millions of barrels of "traditional" crude out of States like
Montana.
An 8 year President really means little to a 70 year
infrastructure project.
#Post#: 17721--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keystone Pipeline: No longer economically viable
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: November 16, 2014, 5:16 pm
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The're not going to build a project that delivers oil at
above-market cost in an environment where their profit margins
are shrinking.
Perhaps when oil rises again....but that doesn't appear likely
in the near future. The Saudis are pushing prices down even
further in the hopes the US will scale back production.
#Post#: 17733--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keystone Pipeline: No longer economically viable
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: November 16, 2014, 11:31 pm
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--- Quote from: Notso link ---
>
> Half the country often seems to forget scientists also work
for Corporations, they just do not have tenure and get fired if
they do not produce.
>
--- End Quote ---
Interesting comments, although if history serves, Corporate
scientists and engineers will do what the corporation directs,
which will be guided by two things: Profit and regulation.
Corporate scientists still insist Leaded fuels are safe, there
is no link between smoking and cancer and the "radium girls" had
preexisting illnesses. That's their job, to defend their
employer's preferred position.
Don't fool yourself. They'd be injecting used Prestone
antifreeze into the water table if it were the cheapest fracking
fluid available and those corporate scientists will dutifully
"prove" that it's both healthy and delicious. Oh, and green too
since it's really just recycling.
You are right, if they don't they get fired. They aren't paid
to prove their employer is poisoning people.
Corporations have just one fiduciary duty: to their shareholders
via profits.
Every inch forward in safety and environmentalism has been
forced by government, from mandatory seatbelts and safety glass
in automobiles to the clean air and water acts. That's the
government's proper job, to set guidelines keeping
profit-generating activity safe for everyone else.
#Post#: 17736--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keystone Pipeline: No longer economically viable
DIR By: Notso
Date: November 17, 2014, 7:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
>
> The're not going to build a project that delivers oil at
above-market cost in an environment where their profit margins
are shrinking.
> Perhaps when oil rises again....but that doesn't appear likely
in the near future. The Saudis are pushing prices down even
further in the hopes the US will scale back production.
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
Absolutely not, but break even on some of these sites is in the
$60 range, before transportation. Many more in the $85 range,
the current intermediate and long term guesstimates.
If this microwave process it real, it will eliminate the extreme
natural gas cost of using steam, which produces that
contaminated water everybody is concerned about. Imagine using
microwaves, at 5 or 10 percent of the current energy cost
(currently the largest expense), with no or almost no waste
water. It could lower cost per barrel by a huge amount.
After that, we just have to transport the heavy oil (kinda like
what some of we buy from the Venezuelans) safely, that can also
be figgered out. With the western worlds aversion to building
new refineries, might be the U.S. Government could do the easy
fix and offer tax credits to our Northern refineries to take on
this crude, refine and send the easier to safely transport
refined product on down the line.
#Post#: 17737--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keystone Pipeline: No longer economically viable
DIR By: Notso
Date: November 17, 2014, 8:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rapids_60 link ---
>
> Interesting comments, although if history serves, Corporate
scientists and engineers will do what the corporation directs,
which will be guided by two things: Profit and regulation.
>
> Corporate scientists still insist Leaded fuels are safe,
there is no link between smoking and cancer and the "radium
girls" had preexisting illnesses. That's their job, to defend
their employer's preferred position.
>
> Don't fool yourself. They'd be injecting used Prestone
antifreeze into the water table if it were the cheapest fracking
fluid available and those corporate scientists will dutifully
"prove" that it's both healthy and delicious. Oh, and green too
since it's really just recycling.
> You are right, if they don't they get fired. They aren't paid
to prove their employer is poisoning people.
>
> Corporations have just one fiduciary duty: to their
shareholders via profits.
> Every inch forward in safety and environmentalism has been
forced by government, from mandatory seatbelts and safety glass
in automobiles to the clean air and water acts. That's the
government's proper job, to set guidelines keeping
profit-generating activity safe for everyone else.
>
--- End Quote ---
"Every inch forward in safety and environmentalism has been
forced by government, from mandatory seatbelts and safety glass
in automobiles to the clean air and water acts."
Every inch? Your leaded fuel example, how did that work out
making the government look good. True, the corporate scientists
supported leaded fuel, what did the government scientists do?
The government scientists in California forced MTBE on the oil
companies against their will as a replacement for lead, the only
cheap other choice is ethanol, which the "feed the world" folk
object to.
As California goes so does the rest of the country, the oil
companies put MTBE in everywhere, now the oil companies are
getting sued for billions while those California government
scientists are enjoying their pensions.
Seat belts and safety glass may have been mandated by government
but they were both invented by private folk, hmmm.
#Post#: 17738--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keystone Pipeline: No longer economically viable
DIR By: Snickers
Date: November 17, 2014, 11:05 am
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"Every inch forward in safety and environmentalism has been
forced by government, from mandatory seatbelts and safety glass
in automobiles to the clean air and water acts."
Really??
There once was man name Preston Tucker. He developed and built
50 cars in 1947.
They had a built in protection frame and roll bar, safety
glass, seat belts padded dash.
He also had developed a collapsible steering column, disk
brakes, fuel injection, that were going to be in the next model
car.
Who stood in the way of all these safety features? The US
Government. They shut him down.
#Post#: 17740--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keystone Pipeline: No longer economically viable
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: November 17, 2014, 4:29 pm
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--- Quote from: Snickers link ---
>
> There once was man name Preston Tucker.
>
--- End Quote ---
The Feds shut Tucker (also DeLorean and several others) down
because then, as now they were beholden to big money- in those
days GM, Ford and Chrysler. Safety or lack of had nothing to
do with it. He could have been producing rolling death traps
and it would not have changed the outcome.
This sort of proves the original point. These devices were
available in 1947, yet not incorporated by the automakers until
the Government mandated them some 20 years later. GM actively
fought standard seatbelts with their own engineers showing how
they cause severe head injuries. (instead of being safely
ejected from the car).
So back to the original idea, that oil company scientists are
busy working on clean fracking technology. Perhaps they are.
But you'll never see it implemented unless it is either less
costly than current methods or mandated.
And if the corporate orders come to defend current practices,
those corporate scientists will remember who signs their
paycheck.
#Post#: 17741--------------------------------------------------
Re: Keystone Pipeline: No longer economically viable
DIR By: rapids_60
Date: November 17, 2014, 4:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Notso link ---
>
> Your leaded fuel example, how did that work out making the
government look good
>
--- End Quote ---
Government did not create or mandate MTBE, it created a clean
air standard that was easiest to meet with oxygenated fuel.
Private industry scientists (specifically ARCO) decided
exactly how that would be done and MTBE was the least expensive
route.
Fact is we'd still be burning leaded gasoline with Corporate
scientists defending it's virtues had the feds not banned it.
Their job isn't to prove their employer is killing people.
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