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       #Post#: 16718--------------------------------------------------
       What a mess
       By: trollslayer Date: October 7, 2014, 8:25 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Listening to the news, I find myself asking who is minding the
       store.  Panetta is out pushing his book, showing how Obama has a
       tin ear when it comes to taking advice from the people he hired
       to advise him.   Joe Biden committed a cardinal sin by telling
       the truth by saying  the UAE,  Turkey and Saudi Arabia has
       funneled weapons and money to people they shouldn't have and has
       since apologized to each (why I don't know I guess the truth
       hurts), and the five airstrikes the US has done outside of
       Kobani Syria has done nothing to stop ISIS from advancing on the
       town.  Experts estimate that if they indeed take over the town
       over 5000 innocents will be killed.  Meanwhile our commander in
       chief has spent the majority of the week....... fundraising.
       This is the Obama legacy.
       I remember when the main goal of a conflict/war/police action,
       was to win.  Not to keep Boots off the ground.
  HTML http://abcnews.go.com/International/air-strikes-kobani-stopping-isis-takeover-syrian-town/story?id=26017683
       #Post#: 16754--------------------------------------------------
       Re: What a mess
       By: trollslayer Date: October 9, 2014, 8:51 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       So now we can add Jimmy Carter to the voices of dissent against
       the Obama foreign policy.  You know the voices that are notable
       absent?  Bush and Bush.  But when you have your own party and
       former members of your Cabinet coming out against you, why
       should the opposite party?
       [quote](CNN) -- Former President Jimmy Carter said President
       Barack Obama "waited too long" to go after ISIS and criticized
       what he described as the president's changing foreign policy.
       "First of all, we waited too long. We let the Islamic State
       build up its money, capability and strength and weapons while it
       was still in Syria," Carter told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in
       an interview published Tuesday. The 39th president was in Texas
       working on a Habitat for Humanity project.[/quote]
  HTML http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/08/politics/jimmy-carter-obama-isis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
       #Post#: 16773--------------------------------------------------
       Re: What a mess
       By: rapids_60 Date: October 9, 2014, 4:13 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       You're right.  The republican's haven't said a thing about the
       job Obama's doing over there, lol.
       Bush is smart to keep his mouth shut, lest someone remind him
       his poorly thought out actions provided the foundation for this
       nightmare.
       #Post#: 16779--------------------------------------------------
       Re: What a mess
       By: trollslayer Date: October 9, 2014, 10:00 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=rapids_60 link=topic=1261.msg16773#msg16773
       date=1412889238]
       You're right.  The republican's haven't said a thing about the
       job Obama's doing over there, lol.
       Bush is smart to keep his mouth shut, lest someone remind him
       his poorly thought out actions provided the foundation for this
       nightmare.
       [/quote]Sorry, as much as liberals and others try to blame this
       on Bush it really can't be done.  The only argument you really
       have is "What might have been."  Not what really is.  Don't
       forget, Obama "ended the war and brought all the troops home"
       because he declared that Iraq was a "stable country".  Exactly
       what did Bush, a private US citizen do to destabilize a stable
       country?  The answer of course is nothing, he isn't at all
       responsible.  The best argument liberals have is "If we wouldn't
       have taken Saddam out of power..."  which is really a moot
       point.  Saddam may or may not be in power right now.
       ISIS was created out of the civil war in Syria, not Iraq.   To
       assume that they wouldn't have gone on the land grab if Saddam
       was still in power is nothing but speculation.  You can't argue
       speculation.
       I mean, I could also manufacture and argument that starts off
       with "If Romney would have beaten Obama.." that would have the
       same amount of credibility as yours.
       #Post#: 16780--------------------------------------------------
       Re: What a mess
       By: rapids_60 Date: October 9, 2014, 10:54 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Don't make things so difficult.
       Bush's 2003 invasion  led to a sectarian civil war, which
       allowed Al Qaeda to flourish in Iraq, a country they previously
       did not exist in.
       Without the American invasion Al Quada would not have been as
       strong and ISIS would not have grown out of it.
       Nothing happens in a vacuum, history builds on itself.
       Obama has not made the situation any better, in fact has in many
       ways made it worse.
       But that does not Absolve the previous administration of their
       mistakes.  Mistakes that  provided the foundation for today's
       disaster.
       #Post#: 16788--------------------------------------------------
       Re: What a mess
       By: trollslayer Date: October 10, 2014, 7:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=rapids_60 link=topic=1261.msg16780#msg16780
       date=1412913240]
       Don't make things so difficult.
       Bush's 2003 invasion  led to a sectarian civil war, which
       allowed Al Qaeda to flourish in Iraq, a country they previously
       did not exist in.
       Without the American invasion Al Quada would not have been as
       strong and ISIS would not have grown out of it.
       Nothing happens in a vacuum, history builds on itself.
       Obama has not made the situation any better, in fact has in many
       ways made it worse.
       But that does not Absolve the previous administration of their
       mistakes.  Mistakes that  provided the foundation for today's
       disaster.
       [/quote]
       Nobody is "absolving" Bush of anything.  You seem to forget one
       huge detail.  Al Qaeda was flourishing well before we went into
       Iraq, (see historical references on 911 and USS Cole).  You're
       once again relying on the "what might have been" defense saying
       Al Qaeda wouldn't have been as strong if....
       Uncle Joe Biden was spot on when he mentioned our so called
       "allies" in the region have been supporting them and feeding
       them weapons to continue to fight a sectarian civil war that has
       been going on for centuries (see historical reference of Saddam
       gassing the Kurds).
       The real problem and the main problem is Obama's failure to
       intervene in any way in Syria.  He says Assad must/will go then
       does nothing.  Sets a red line then does nothing.  The last
       example being the most compelling example of feckless leadership
       that has been seen and noted around the world.  Meanwhile, ISIS
       has been allowed to flourish in the vacuum created in Syria.
       Obama has been getting updates during his national security
       briefings (well in the 41% of the briefings he actually attends
       that is) for well over a year and has done nothing about the
       threat.  It finally took two American getting their heads
       chopped off before he finally did something about it and that
       something is really not much.  The 14 bombings he's done in a
       vain attempt to try to save Kobani has been labeled "shock and
       yawn".   The so called boots on the ground he's been relying on
       (Turkey) are still sitting on their border with their tanks
       pointed the other way!!
       Quite the coalition he's put together.  Our only hope is that
       the 5,000 troops (it will take a year to train) will be up to
       the task of defeating 80,000 or so ISIS fighters in a year or
       so.  That's quite a plan.
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