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#Post#: 16718--------------------------------------------------
What a mess
By: trollslayer Date: October 7, 2014, 8:25 pm
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Listening to the news, I find myself asking who is minding the
store. Panetta is out pushing his book, showing how Obama has a
tin ear when it comes to taking advice from the people he hired
to advise him. Joe Biden committed a cardinal sin by telling
the truth by saying the UAE, Turkey and Saudi Arabia has
funneled weapons and money to people they shouldn't have and has
since apologized to each (why I don't know I guess the truth
hurts), and the five airstrikes the US has done outside of
Kobani Syria has done nothing to stop ISIS from advancing on the
town. Experts estimate that if they indeed take over the town
over 5000 innocents will be killed. Meanwhile our commander in
chief has spent the majority of the week....... fundraising.
This is the Obama legacy.
I remember when the main goal of a conflict/war/police action,
was to win. Not to keep Boots off the ground.
HTML http://abcnews.go.com/International/air-strikes-kobani-stopping-isis-takeover-syrian-town/story?id=26017683
#Post#: 16754--------------------------------------------------
Re: What a mess
By: trollslayer Date: October 9, 2014, 8:51 am
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So now we can add Jimmy Carter to the voices of dissent against
the Obama foreign policy. You know the voices that are notable
absent? Bush and Bush. But when you have your own party and
former members of your Cabinet coming out against you, why
should the opposite party?
[quote](CNN) -- Former President Jimmy Carter said President
Barack Obama "waited too long" to go after ISIS and criticized
what he described as the president's changing foreign policy.
"First of all, we waited too long. We let the Islamic State
build up its money, capability and strength and weapons while it
was still in Syria," Carter told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in
an interview published Tuesday. The 39th president was in Texas
working on a Habitat for Humanity project.[/quote]
HTML http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/08/politics/jimmy-carter-obama-isis/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
#Post#: 16773--------------------------------------------------
Re: What a mess
By: rapids_60 Date: October 9, 2014, 4:13 pm
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You're right. The republican's haven't said a thing about the
job Obama's doing over there, lol.
Bush is smart to keep his mouth shut, lest someone remind him
his poorly thought out actions provided the foundation for this
nightmare.
#Post#: 16779--------------------------------------------------
Re: What a mess
By: trollslayer Date: October 9, 2014, 10:00 pm
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[quote author=rapids_60 link=topic=1261.msg16773#msg16773
date=1412889238]
You're right. The republican's haven't said a thing about the
job Obama's doing over there, lol.
Bush is smart to keep his mouth shut, lest someone remind him
his poorly thought out actions provided the foundation for this
nightmare.
[/quote]Sorry, as much as liberals and others try to blame this
on Bush it really can't be done. The only argument you really
have is "What might have been." Not what really is. Don't
forget, Obama "ended the war and brought all the troops home"
because he declared that Iraq was a "stable country". Exactly
what did Bush, a private US citizen do to destabilize a stable
country? The answer of course is nothing, he isn't at all
responsible. The best argument liberals have is "If we wouldn't
have taken Saddam out of power..." which is really a moot
point. Saddam may or may not be in power right now.
ISIS was created out of the civil war in Syria, not Iraq. To
assume that they wouldn't have gone on the land grab if Saddam
was still in power is nothing but speculation. You can't argue
speculation.
I mean, I could also manufacture and argument that starts off
with "If Romney would have beaten Obama.." that would have the
same amount of credibility as yours.
#Post#: 16780--------------------------------------------------
Re: What a mess
By: rapids_60 Date: October 9, 2014, 10:54 pm
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Don't make things so difficult.
Bush's 2003 invasion led to a sectarian civil war, which
allowed Al Qaeda to flourish in Iraq, a country they previously
did not exist in.
Without the American invasion Al Quada would not have been as
strong and ISIS would not have grown out of it.
Nothing happens in a vacuum, history builds on itself.
Obama has not made the situation any better, in fact has in many
ways made it worse.
But that does not Absolve the previous administration of their
mistakes. Mistakes that provided the foundation for today's
disaster.
#Post#: 16788--------------------------------------------------
Re: What a mess
By: trollslayer Date: October 10, 2014, 7:54 am
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[quote author=rapids_60 link=topic=1261.msg16780#msg16780
date=1412913240]
Don't make things so difficult.
Bush's 2003 invasion led to a sectarian civil war, which
allowed Al Qaeda to flourish in Iraq, a country they previously
did not exist in.
Without the American invasion Al Quada would not have been as
strong and ISIS would not have grown out of it.
Nothing happens in a vacuum, history builds on itself.
Obama has not made the situation any better, in fact has in many
ways made it worse.
But that does not Absolve the previous administration of their
mistakes. Mistakes that provided the foundation for today's
disaster.
[/quote]
Nobody is "absolving" Bush of anything. You seem to forget one
huge detail. Al Qaeda was flourishing well before we went into
Iraq, (see historical references on 911 and USS Cole). You're
once again relying on the "what might have been" defense saying
Al Qaeda wouldn't have been as strong if....
Uncle Joe Biden was spot on when he mentioned our so called
"allies" in the region have been supporting them and feeding
them weapons to continue to fight a sectarian civil war that has
been going on for centuries (see historical reference of Saddam
gassing the Kurds).
The real problem and the main problem is Obama's failure to
intervene in any way in Syria. He says Assad must/will go then
does nothing. Sets a red line then does nothing. The last
example being the most compelling example of feckless leadership
that has been seen and noted around the world. Meanwhile, ISIS
has been allowed to flourish in the vacuum created in Syria.
Obama has been getting updates during his national security
briefings (well in the 41% of the briefings he actually attends
that is) for well over a year and has done nothing about the
threat. It finally took two American getting their heads
chopped off before he finally did something about it and that
something is really not much. The 14 bombings he's done in a
vain attempt to try to save Kobani has been labeled "shock and
yawn". The so called boots on the ground he's been relying on
(Turkey) are still sitting on their border with their tanks
pointed the other way!!
Quite the coalition he's put together. Our only hope is that
the 5,000 troops (it will take a year to train) will be up to
the task of defeating 80,000 or so ISIS fighters in a year or
so. That's quite a plan.
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