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#Post#: 14621--------------------------------------------------
waste millions, secure nothing
DIR By: FTB41
Date: July 24, 2014, 8:27 pm
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What Rick Perry is doing on the Mexican border with the national
guard is pointless and a big waste of money. It does next to
nothing to secure the border. Its either a publicity stunt or a
feel good moment for modern conservatives, but it is not a
solution to the border problem.
--- Quote ---
> Securing the border is "border posturing"? Another liberal
talking point. Pull your head out of Obama's ass for a change
and look at reality. These illegal alien children are costing
us $ 50,000 a head at this point if the legislation goes
through. Don't you think spending that money on our own would
be better than spending it on others? We can't even spend that
money on our own vets. Stop spitting out liberal talking points
and think for yourself for a change.
--- End Quote ---
Well well, aren't you just full of pee and vinegar tonight?
Normally you don't drag your hatred of Obama into it until at
least three straw man accusations and a Glen Beck-style GOP
squawking points ramble. Settle down, and I'll explain it to
you real slow. (you'll still get all prissy and negative in
response while pounding your chest in your unwavering support
for that idiot Perry, but thats okay, I'm used to it)
For starters, I'm not saying that the border shouldn't be
secured, but don't you think that $10 million a month for what
is (at best) a very temporary and almost completely symbolic
gesture a little pricey? Wouldn't it make more sense to use
that kind of money to train more border patrol agents?
Yes, it is largely symbolic. National Guard troops have no
authority to enforce civilian laws, at best they can coordinate
with border patrol. While having extra eyes on the ground is
helpful, and the presence of troops can look intimidating
,remember, they have no real power like border patrol agents,
they can't even detain anyone.
So, it really fixes nothing.
Also, the minors crossing the border are mostly just turning
themselves in. Still costing us 50,000 a head (your number, not
mine...got a source for that, btw?) Not exactly a situation
where having more eyes is at all helpful, and certainly not
saving any money.
#Post#: 14627--------------------------------------------------
Re: waste millions, secure nothing
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: July 24, 2014, 9:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Yes, it is largely symbolic. National Guard troops have no
authority to enforce civilian laws, at best they can coordinate
with border patrol. While having extra eyes on the ground is
helpful, and the presence of troops can look intimidating
,remember, they have no real power like border patrol agents,
they can't even detain anyone.
--- End Quote ---
You just figured it out but didn't even realize it F. We didn't
have enough border patrol at the border to secure the border to
start with. Now the ones we did have are busy baby sitting and
changing diapers and doing paperwork. Meanwhile the border
remains wide open. You team up the National Guard with the
border patrol. You have some changing diapers with the Border
Patrol and you have some patrolling the border with the Border
Patrol. DUH!!
Question for you F. How does Al Qaeda work? They set off an
explosion, get everybody busy taking care of the carnage, then
they set off another wounding, crippling and killing even more.
This is just another case of you neglecting to look at the whole
equation again. You tell me how getting more people patrolling
the border is a bad thing? I know this question will put you on
the spot and you'll once again bail so I won't be holding my
breath .
--- Quote ---
> For starters, I'm not saying that the border shouldn't be
secured, but don't you think that $10 million a month for what
is (at best) a very temporary and almost completely symbolic
gesture a little pricey? [quote]
> Don't you thing throwing 3.7 b[i]BILLION[/i] at the problem is
a little pricey without securing the border. How many months at
$10 million a month will it take to equal the $3.7 billion Obama
is proposing to throw at it? When a liberal starts worrying
about spending money is the time you have to start wondering
what their motive is. The money is coming from Texas. Not the
federal budget. You may want to look at the statistics from the
last time they did this, it worked. But you can ignore that if
you want.
> Your typical tunnel vision of an issue shows just how little
you understand. Obama and my dislike or my so called hatred
(dig out the straw man) as you call it, has nothing to do with
it. The man has nothing to do with it. But as usual you
deflect from the issue at hand. Think about it as if the US was
a house or a structure Why would you spend money to fix the
water damage if you aren't going to fix the source of the water
damage? Again, a tough question so I don't expect an answer
from you so feel free to bail.
>
> Before you do take off,
> [quote]Still costing us 50,000 a head (your number, not
mine...got a source for that, btw?)
--- End Quote ---
Yes I do but I'm not going to post it for you. History shows it
would be a waste of time as you would just criticize the source
without mentioning the information. Google it, of better yet,
figure out the math for yourself. You take $3.7 billion and
divide by the amount of illegal aliens that have crossed the
border, You'll find my number on the low side.
#Post#: 14630--------------------------------------------------
Re: waste millions, secure nothing
DIR By: FTB41
Date: July 25, 2014, 5:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You're argument is full of holes and logical fallacies,
Scarecrow.
We aren't talking about Obama's plan, liberal motives or Al
Qaeda (straw men, lol) we are talking about the effectiveness of
Rick Perry's attempt to secure the border with the National
Guard. Yes, I know its not Federal funds (and you can thank
Obama that its not, btw) but thats still a substantial amount of
tax payer money being spent on a project with no permanent
results aside for some great photo ops for Perry and a feel good
moment for conservatives that get all warm and fuzzy whenever
troops are deployed.
Like I said before, all the National Guard can do it provide
eyes on the ground. They can't even babysit (no legal power to
detain, remember?) that still has to be done by Border Patrol,
and the same amount of funds will be used to detain, process and
whatever else.
Sad thing is that they could have, as demonstrated by W in
Operation Jump Start, where the mission was to improve
infrastructure, assist in training new Border Patrol agents as
well as provide surveillance. Would be great if thats what they
were doing now, but its just not the case.
HTML https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1021/~/operation-jump-start---cbp-border-patrol-and-the-national-guard<br
/>
There, even gave you a "Bush did it first." You're Welcome.
Last your analogy of the leaky pipes. I would call a plumber to
fix the pipes (all the leaks, not just the ones in the furthest
east section of the house) at $90.00 per hour, rather than pay
some guy to hold a bucket under on section thats leaking $10
bucks an hour, 24 hours a day for a month and them still have to
fix the pipes later.
I'd pay for a solution that works rather than a temporary fix
that doesn't.
#Post#: 14631--------------------------------------------------
Re: waste millions, secure nothing
DIR By: Notso
Date: July 25, 2014, 7:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FTB41 link ---
>
> You're argument is full of holes and logical fallacies,
Scarecrow.
>
> We aren't talking about Obama's plan, liberal motives or Al
Qaeda (straw men, lol) we are talking about the effectiveness of
Rick Perry's attempt to secure the border with the National
Guard. Yes, I know its not Federal funds (and you can thank
Obama that its not, btw) but thats still a substantial amount of
tax payer money being spent on a project with no permanent
results aside for some great photo ops for Perry and a feel good
moment for conservatives that get all warm and fuzzy whenever
troops are deployed.
>
> Like I said before, all the National Guard can do it provide
eyes on the ground. They can't even babysit (no legal power to
detain, remember?) that still has to be done by Border Patrol,
and the same amount of funds will be used to detain, process and
whatever else.
>
> Sad thing is that they could have, as demonstrated by W in
Operation Jump Start, where the mission was to improve
infrastructure, assist in training new Border Patrol agents as
well as provide surveillance. Would be great if thats what they
were doing now, but its just not the case.
HTML https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1021/~/operation-jump-start---cbp-border-patrol-and-the-national-guard
> There, even gave you a "Bush did it first." You're Welcome.
>
> Last your analogy of the leaky pipes. I would call a plumber
to fix the pipes (all the leaks, not just the ones in the
furthest east section of the house) at $90.00 per hour, rather
than pay some guy to hold a bucket under on section thats
leaking $10 bucks an hour, 24 hours a day for a month and them
still have to fix the pipes later.
>
> I'd pay for a solution that works rather than a temporary fix
that doesn't.
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
The Feds are paying for much more than you think. These
servicemen and women are being activated under title 32, their
paychecks will come from the Feds, they will be wearing out
equipment provided by the Feds, any food and fuels will be
purchased using Federal credit cards.
This title 32 stuff is pretty interesting, the State Governor is
the commander issuing orders the Feds pay for. For example, in
the Katrina New Orleans thing, if Bush would have activated the
National Guard it would have been under title 10, severely
restricting Guardsmen activities under the posse comitatus law.
Instead the Louisiana Governor activated the guard and other
States loaned their guard members under title 32 thus allowing
much more flexibility on what the Guard could do. Of course,
either way the Feds paid for 99.99 percent of the cost.
These activated Guardsmen will not be able to enforce
immigration law as they can only enforce State law, but I am
guessing they most definitely can pick up any unaccompanied kids
in 96 degree heat under a Health and Welfare thing just like any
Wood County cop can.
#Post#: 14633--------------------------------------------------
Re: waste millions, secure nothing
DIR By: Snickers
Date: July 25, 2014, 9:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: FTB41 link ---
>
> You're argument is full of holes and logical fallacies,
Scarecrow.
>
> We aren't talking about Obama's plan, liberal motives or Al
Qaeda (straw men, lol) we are talking about the effectiveness of
Rick Perry's attempt to secure the border with the National
Guard. Yes, I know its not Federal funds (and you can thank
Obama that its not, btw) but thats still a substantial amount of
tax payer money being spent on a project with no permanent
results aside for some great photo ops for Perry and a feel good
moment for conservatives that get all warm and fuzzy whenever
troops are deployed.
>
> Like I said before, all the National Guard can do it provide
eyes on the ground. They can't even babysit (no legal power to
detain, remember?) that still has to be done by Border Patrol,
and the same amount of funds will be used to detain, process and
whatever else.
>
> Sad thing is that they could have, as demonstrated by W in
Operation Jump Start, where the mission was to improve
infrastructure, assist in training new Border Patrol agents as
well as provide surveillance. Would be great if thats what they
were doing now, but its just not the case.
HTML https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1021/~/operation-jump-start---cbp-border-patrol-and-the-national-guard
> There, even gave you a "Bush did it first." You're Welcome.
>
> Last your analogy of the leaky pipes. I would call a plumber
to fix the pipes (all the leaks, not just the ones in the
furthest east section of the house) at $90.00 per hour, rather
than pay some guy to hold a bucket under on section thats
leaking $10 bucks an hour, 24 hours a day for a month and them
still have to fix the pipes later.
>
> I'd pay for a solution that works rather than a temporary fix
that doesn't.
>
>
>
--- End Quote ---
How can you already condemn the effectiveness of Perry's plan is
ineffective?
It hasn't even started yet.
These Guardsmen are going to be teamed up with STATE of Texas
law enforcement agencies. Not the Border Patrol.
They are going to be there to protect Texas.
Once the news of actual deterrents at the border gets out to
those in with plans to try to cross over. It will make them
think twice about wasting that kind of money {Fees paid to the
slimy Coyotes} to try. At least on the Texas border. Too bad
the other border States haven't done the same. If Obama refuses
to protect our borders. The States could.
#Post#: 14636--------------------------------------------------
Re: waste millions, secure nothing
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: July 25, 2014, 4:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> We aren't talking about Obama's plan, liberal motives or Al
Qaeda (straw men, lol) we are talking about the effectiveness of
Rick Perry's attempt to secure the border with the National
Guard.
--- End Quote ---
Ummmm, yes, we are. This whole crisis is based on Obama's
policies leaving the border wide open for Al Qaeda, ISIS or
whomever to cross whenever they wish. Another great example of
your narrow tunnel vision of the world. Another note, look up
straw man will ya? You don't have a clue.
Question, how can you tell a liberal can't form a coherent
argument? When they start their conversation off "worrying"
about spending taxpayer dollars.
--- Quote ---
> Last your analogy of the leaky pipes. I would call a plumber
to fix the pipes (all the leaks, not just the ones in the
furthest east section of the house) at $90.00 per hour, rather
than pay some guy to hold a bucket under on section thats
leaking $10 bucks an hour, 24 hours a day for a month and them
still have to fix the pipes later.
--- End Quote ---
Right now all we're doing is fixing the damage caused by the
leaks. You don't spend $3.7 billion to fix the damage from the
leak without fixing the leak first. This is what the Obama
administration is proposing. How much will he be asking for
next year with the next flood of illegals?
--- Quote ---
> I'd pay for a solution that works rather than a temporary fix
that doesn't.
--- End Quote ---
How do you know it won't work? You don't. You jut hate Rick
Perry!! :D :D Right now we aren't spending any money towards
a solution. Any solution, temporary or otherwise is better than
none. Write your president, tell him you're a big fan and tell
him to fix it, not just address the problems created by his
haphazard policies.
#Post#: 14638--------------------------------------------------
Re: waste millions, secure nothing
DIR By: Jeepers
Date: July 26, 2014, 6:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Look at this now!!
Hoping to stem the recent surge of migrants at the Southwest
border, the Obama administration is considering whether to allow
hundreds of minors and young adults from Honduras into the
United States without making the dangerous trek through Mexico,
according to a draft of the proposal.
If approved, the plan would direct the government to screen
thousands of children and youths in Honduras to see if they can
enter the United States as refugees or on emergency humanitarian
grounds. It would be the first American refugee effort in a
nation reachable by land to the United States, the White House
said, putting the violence in Honduras on the level of
humanitarian emergencies in Haiti and Vietnam, where such
programs have been conducted in the past amid war and major
crises.
HTML http://www.ijreview.com/2014/07/160987-obama-considering-flying-refugees-directly-honduras-u-s/
#Post#: 14639--------------------------------------------------
Re: waste millions, secure nothing
DIR By: wmd102
Date: July 26, 2014, 6:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Why stop there? If you are going to fly them out why not send
them to Hawaii?
#Post#: 14640--------------------------------------------------
Re: waste millions, secure nothing
DIR By: trollslayer
Date: July 26, 2014, 7:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Jeepers link ---
>
> Look at this now!!
>
> Hoping to stem the recent surge of migrants at the Southwest
border, the Obama administration is considering whether to allow
hundreds of minors and young adults from Honduras into the
United States without making the dangerous trek through Mexico,
according to a draft of the proposal.
>
> If approved, the plan would direct the government to screen
thousands of children and youths in Honduras to see if they can
enter the United States as refugees or on emergency humanitarian
grounds. It would be the first American refugee effort in a
nation reachable by land to the United States, the White House
said, putting the violence in Honduras on the level of
humanitarian emergencies in Haiti and Vietnam, where such
programs have been conducted in the past amid war and major
crises.
>
>
HTML http://www.ijreview.com/2014/07/160987-obama-considering-flying-refugees-directly-honduras-u-s/
>
--- End Quote ---
The one question nobody has answered is what has so dramatically
changed in Central America? It's always been a rat hole, a
dangerous place to live. Why now do we need to start offering
refugee status? If we're willing to spend that kind of money
why not spend it in the inner cities of Detroit, Chicago,
Philly? Talk about a clear lack of any kind of priorities!
#Post#: 14644--------------------------------------------------
Re: waste millions, secure nothing
DIR By: Snickers
Date: July 26, 2014, 10:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: trollslayer link ---
>
> Ummmm, yes, we are. This whole crisis is based on Obama's
policies leaving the border wide open for Al Qaeda, ISIS or
whomever to cross whenever they wish. Another great example of
your narrow tunnel vision of the world. Another note, look up
straw man will ya? You don't have a clue.
> Question, how can you tell a liberal can't form a coherent
argument? When they start their conversation off "worrying"
about spending taxpayer dollars.
> Right now all we're doing is fixing the damage caused by the
leaks. You don't spend $3.7 billion to fix the damage from the
leak without fixing the leak first. This is what the Obama
administration is proposing. How much will he be asking for
next year with the next flood of illegals?
> How do you know it won't work? You don't. You jut hate Rick
Perry!! :D :D Right now we aren't spending any money towards
a solution. Any solution, temporary or otherwise is better than
none. Write your president, tell him you're a big fan and tell
him to fix it, not just address the problems created by his
haphazard policies.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yup
That's like investing $10,000 in ripping out and redoing a
bathroom because a busted water pipe ruined everything. Without
bothering to replacing the busted pipe. Turn the supply line on
again and what do you have? Another $10,000 rebuild.
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