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#Post#: 48--------------------------------------------------
AJ and Mary's identity
By: grahamsuth Date: April 22, 2014, 5:50 pm
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Hi Victoria, of your three options about AJ, to be complete you
need to add one more. i.e. He is in some sort of self deception
with himself. I have come to see we are all in loads of self
deception, and don't want to see the real truth about ourselves.
I have seen AJ in self deception in the past. When I first met
him seven years ago he was saying how he was on the way to
becoming breathanarian. That didn't happen. So he is still like
us and capable of self deception. That doesn't mean he's not the
best spiritual teacher, the most insightful, astute, spiritually
advanced and the most loving person i have ever met, because he
is. He's just not perfect. He makes mistakes.
If what he teaches ever becomes as well accepted as
Christianity, the world will be a much better place. Just like
Jesus in the first century offered the opportunity for
individuals and the world to grow in love, so AJ offers that
now.
#Post#: 49--------------------------------------------------
Re: AJs identity
By: Victoria7 Date: April 23, 2014, 2:23 am
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Hi Graham,
I know that AJ is capable of making mistakes and can be 'wrong'
about things. However, for him to be so utterly deluded on an
issue of is own identity and yet be so insightful about everyone
elses soul condition is something I find illogical.
So for me anyway it make much more sense that he is aware of his
own idenity and that he is correct in his assertion of being
Jesus. However, I do understand that this is a personal issue
that all people engaging Divine Truth will have to come to their
own conclusion about.
#Post#: 50--------------------------------------------------
Re: AJs identity
By: grahamsuth Date: April 23, 2014, 4:35 pm
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Hi again Victoria, yes i agree however it is not as clear cut as
the evidence against the first two possibilities you mentioned,
given i gave evidence that he is capable of self deception as we
all are.
If he's not Jesus then he isn't mad or bad but is more like us
and is still a great spiritual teacher that could change
everything. For me the message must be more important than the
messenger and I know he agrees on that point. What he has come
to teach us is what is the most important. Christians made the
mistake that believing in Jesus is the most important thing and
it led them to mythologise the man and make him into a God that
can save us just by believing in him.
#Post#: 53--------------------------------------------------
Re: AJs identity
By: Victoria7 Date: April 24, 2014, 7:10 am
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I can't agree that AJ is capable of such self deception as to
his own identity. I'm sure he has been wrong about a few things
but I feel he has stated he is Jesus for 10 years ish now and
has not ever wavered from his claim. It would have to be one
hell of a delusion to go round the world thinking your Jesus
when in fact you are not, all his memories would have to be self
created which would bear witness to quite a disturbed
psychology....all evidence is to the contrary; he is insightful,
helpful and highly perceptive. Also the way he helps spirits in
the channelings is strong evidence for me as to his identity.
Extreme self delusion wouls come under my 'mad' catogary
We'll have to agree to disgree I feel...
#Post#: 87--------------------------------------------------
Re: AJs identity
By: grahamsuth Date: April 26, 2014, 4:34 pm
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Hi Victoria
I wasn't saying anything other than you left out one
possibility from your three possibilities about AJ:
1, he is mad
2, he is bad
3, he is who he says he is.
All i was saying is you also need one that is
4, He is has some self delusion about himself (we all have this)
Anyone that knows AJ personally will know that he is the
opposite of mad or bad and that is easily proven in a concrete
fashion, so those are easily ruled out. However the point i
mentioned is not so obviously ruled out by everyone, it is more
of a personal feeling we may have about him. For me it is about
his teachings, and they are the most wonderful stuff i have ever
encountered.
#Post#: 90--------------------------------------------------
Re: AJs identity
By: pierrejoseph Date: April 26, 2014, 5:30 pm
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Hi Graham,
Your argument about self deception does not make sense to me. Or
I rather should say I don't understand well what you mean by
that.
Do you know where self delusion comes from, how do we create it
?
Is it the same that unintentionally liying to ourselves because
we don't want to face the pain associated with the truth? Is it
coming from our true desire to not know and our mind is
inventing things? And spirit are helping us to avoid /lie? Is
that so?
Is it not just another form of addiction, a way to not feel our
pain? That would not make sens here because in the case of AJ,
it seems to be exactly the opposite, that being Jesus exposes
all of his pains and attract a lot of unloving treatments.
Hiding as AJ seemed to have been his addiction in the past.
I wonder how it really works and how it would make AJ to say he
is Jesus when he is not.
From the exemple about becoming a breatharian you gave, it seems
that you would classify what appear to me to be just "changing a
personal opinion or desire or belief" to be self deception. AJ
has many personal opinions that is is not sure about like earth
changes for instance, and he usually is honest about what he
knows for sure and what are just his personal opinions he is not
sure about. Did he express that as a truth he was sure about or
would that not be just an exemple of the latter?
Would you have other exemples of what you would classify as self
deception you have seen in the past with AJ? Personally, I have
never seens AJ in self deception for the last 2 years I have
known him. Have you seen him in self deception during this
period of time and how? Because you have known him much before
and it might have been different before. He has grown a lot
these last 5 -8 years I guess.
#Post#: 102--------------------------------------------------
Re: AJs identity
By: grahamsuth Date: April 27, 2014, 6:00 pm
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Pierre, i don't want to make the same mistake that Christians
made about Jesus. They put him on a pedestal and because he
referred to God as father, people assumed he was the only son of
God. Jesus must have tried to counter this because he only ever
referred to himself as the son of man (in the new testament).
Note how people in so called loving relationships want to see
wonderful things in their partner and tend not to see all of the
reality? We tend to see what we want to see. If we want to see
AJ as Jesus we may fall into the same error. Whether he is Jesus
or not, wanting him to be Jesus could lead us into the same
errors as people in the first and later centuries fell into
because they wanted Jesus to be the messiah and their beliefs
about what the messiah should be coloured their perception of
Jesus.
I have always learnt about God by looking at the world and how
it works, by studying God's creation I have learnt a lot about
the creator. It has proved much more accurate than reading the
Bible or listening to preachers.
Similarly I prefer to know who AJ is by what he says and what he
does. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. I would
suggest that if we want him to be Jesus (whether he is Jesus or
not) then perhaps we don't really want to deeply experiment with
what he says to discover the truth for ourselves, but would
prefer to just be handed truth on a plate.
#Post#: 103--------------------------------------------------
Re: AJs identity
By: Veronica Date: April 27, 2014, 8:06 pm
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Amen :)
#Post#: 104--------------------------------------------------
Re: AJs identity
By: pierrejoseph Date: April 28, 2014, 2:42 am
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First, I suppose this discussion is out of topic even if it is
the continuation of the previous discussion... So I am happy
that the post about Jesus identity be moved under a more
appropriate topic if it can be. It seems John did it once?
Yes Graham, I agree with you that desiring him to be Jesus hides
an injury. And also the teachings are more important than the
guy, I agree. But this is another topic than AJ's true identity,
is it not? Why not calling a rose a rose, an apple an apple and
Jesus Jesus? They might be some people who want him to be Jesus
as another Guru, but honestly I have not met any. I feel the
commun issue is more about people NOT wanting him to be Jesus or
be associated with someone who claims to be Jesus and so wanting
to stay safer in their doubt, wether he is Jesus or not. They
have some fears feeding their doubt that prevents them from
logically reasoning and seeing the truth about AJ's identity.
Would you resonate with this Graham, that wanting to stay in
your doubt is fed by some fears, fear to make a mistake and
other ones? There are enough evidences for anybody knowing him
for a few years and listening to his teachings to resolve that
question I feel.
But my question was more about questionning your evidences
feeding your doubt about AJ's identity. They help you to avoid
to feel your fears. I am really curious about them as you know
AJ for a longer period of time than most people on the DLP. I am
also VERY open to challenge my conclusions.
#Post#: 105--------------------------------------------------
Re: AJs identity
By: Victoria7 Date: April 28, 2014, 4:31 am
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I will message Johan to see if he can put this under a new
topic:AJ's identity
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