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#Post#: 264--------------------------------------------------
Definitions for Overt / Motivator
DIR By: mjh
Date: January 2, 2018, 4:04 pm
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Just re-reading TROM from the beginning again - to pick up any
misunderstood words or other.
I wanted to confirm definitions for: Overt and Motivator
From the Standard Dictionary
Overt: done or shown openly; plainly apparent. - (from Old
French, past participle of ovrir ‘to open’)
Motivator: something that provides a reason or stimulus to do
something - (from late Latin motivus, from movere ‘to move’)
There are also the $cio definitions:
Overt Act, 1. an overt act is not just injuring someone or
something; an overt act is an act of omission or commission
which does the least good for the least number of dynamics or
the most harm to the greatest number of dynamics. (HCO PL 1 Nov
70 III)
2 . an intentionally committed harmful act committed in an
effort to resolve a problem. (SH Spec 44, 6410C27)
3 . that thing which you do which you aren't willing to have
happen to you. (lSH ACC 10, 6009C14)
MOTIVATOR, 1. an aggressive or destructive act received by the
person or one of the dynamics. It is called a motivator because
it tends to prompt that one pays it back—it “motivates” a new
overt. (HCOB 20 May 68)
2 . something which the person feels has been done to him, which
he is not willing to have happen. (HCO Info Ltr 2 Sept 64)
3 . an act received by the person or individual causing injury,
reduction or degradation of his beingness, person, associations
or dynamics. (HCOB 1 Nov 68 II)
4 . an overt act against oneself by another. In other words, a
motivator is a harmful action performed by somebody else against
oneself. (8ACC-14, 5410CM20)
OVERT-MOTIVATOR SEQUENCE, 1. if a fellow does an overt, he will
then believe he's got to have a motivator or that he has had a
motivator. (AHMC 2, 6012C31)
2. the sequence wherein someone who has committed an overt has
to claim the existence of motivators. The motivators are then
likely to be used to justify committing further overt acts. (PXL
Gloss)
OVERT OF OMISSION, a failure to act resulting in the injury,
reduction or degradation of another or others in their
beingness, persons, possessions or dynamics. (HCOB 1 Nov 68 II)
Interesting that Dennis appeared to utilise the $cio
terminology, but not explicitly define it.
#Post#: 286--------------------------------------------------
Re: Definitions for Overt / Motivator
DIR By: Gone Fabian
Date: March 7, 2018, 12:05 pm
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There is a saying that "a super precise mathematician is a bad
mathematician"..
My own view is that in TROM we are talking about overwhelm. And
the overwhelms on the person's time track are seen from his own
viewpoint, they are subjective to some degree.
This is very often overlooked in $cio practise (and elsewhere),
so one just have to use what one finds.
I can argue that what I did wasn't an overt, but if it caused
some idiot to switch valence then it worked as an overt. We are
not interested in the truth, we are interested in a workable
truth.
The popular definition is that an overt is something you
wouldn't like happening to yourself, a motivator is something
the other guy wouldn't like happening to himself.
Yeah, sometimes true, sometimes not.
Lots of things in this field are subjective. Even the Tone Scale
is subjective as hell, but nobody noticed.
#Post#: 287--------------------------------------------------
Re: Definitions for Overt / Motivator
DIR By: mjh
Date: March 9, 2018, 5:57 am
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Hi Gone Fabian - I agree, there's not much that could be
considered 'non-subjective', I suppose the usage of definitions
is an attempt to reduce this to a minimum. And, attempting to
get to the n'th degree becomes futile at some point (as you say
getting to a workable truth).
--- Quote ---
> Postulate failure is known as an overwhelm. Overwhelming the
postulate of an opponent in a game is known as an overt act.
Having one’s own postulates overwhelmed is called a motivator.
The difference between win/lose and overt/motivator is a very
fine one, and is determined solely by the considered value of
the game. If the game is relatively trivial, then win/lose is
applied; if the game is serious (important) then overt/motivator
is applied.
--- End Quote ---
That little bit I put in BOLD is what you are talking about I
think - as this is very much the subjective aspect.
Overt/Motivator subjective perception example: Yesterday I took
a lollipop from my young boy that he was about to eat, he was so
pained by this and cried, just as well that I did as I'd spotted
it had been resting on the bench in some bleach...
The popular definitions you provided are 'good enough' for me!
I'd like to think that the TROM materials could exist outside
the realms of $cio and therefore not have to utilise their
terminology.
#Post#: 364--------------------------------------------------
Re: Definitions for Overt / Motivator
DIR By: Colleen
Date: July 15, 2018, 1:39 pm
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Hehe, an overt act for myself would be anything that would cause
another to feel bad (or dead) and I get at least some momentary
pleasure sensation from it - of course it had to be justified,
either before or after. For example, in a justified war if one
were a voluntary sniper in a tree top and loved the sensation of
inflicting others - plus might even get a medal and a nice
pension .... haven't we all been there? We did just have two
back to back world wars ....
Good sensation can be had from non-life goals, even if for only
a moment.
Then of course there are the good sensations we compulsively
seek from our life-oriented goals that have gotten out of hand
and are compulsively enforced or prevented from the viewpoint of
the "others". For example, "You must eat my wonderful
cooking...!" Do I smell a motivator coming? :D
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