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       #Post#: 264--------------------------------------------------
       Definitions for Overt / Motivator
   DIR By: mjh
       Date: January 2, 2018, 4:04 pm
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       Just re-reading TROM from the beginning again - to pick up any
       misunderstood words or other.
       I wanted to confirm definitions for: Overt and Motivator
       From the Standard Dictionary
       Overt: done or shown openly; plainly apparent. - (from Old
       French, past participle of ovrir ‘to open’)
       Motivator: something that provides a reason or stimulus to do
       something - (from late Latin motivus, from movere ‘to move’)
       There are also the $cio definitions:
       Overt Act, 1. an overt act is not just injuring someone or
       something; an overt act is an act of omission or commission
       which does the least good for the least number of dynamics or
       the most harm to the greatest number of dynamics. (HCO PL 1 Nov
       70 III)
       2 . an intentionally committed harmful act committed in an
       effort to resolve a problem. (SH Spec 44, 6410C27)
       3 . that thing which you do which you aren't willing to have
       happen to you. (lSH ACC 10, 6009C14)
       MOTIVATOR, 1. an aggressive or destructive act received by the
       person or one of the dynamics. It is called a motivator because
       it tends to prompt that one pays it back—it “motivates” a new
       overt. (HCOB 20 May 68)
       2 . something which the person feels has been done to him, which
       he is not willing to have happen. (HCO Info Ltr 2 Sept 64)
       3 . an act received by the person or individual causing injury,
       reduction or degradation of his beingness, person, associations
       or dynamics. (HCOB 1 Nov 68 II)
       4 . an overt act against oneself by another. In other words, a
       motivator is a harmful action performed by somebody else against
       oneself. (8ACC-14, 5410CM20)
       OVERT-MOTIVATOR SEQUENCE, 1. if a fellow does an overt, he will
       then believe he's got to have a motivator or that he has had a
       motivator. (AHMC 2, 6012C31)
       2. the sequence wherein someone who has committed an overt has
       to claim the existence of motivators. The motivators are then
       likely to be used to justify committing further overt acts. (PXL
       Gloss)
       OVERT OF OMISSION, a failure to act resulting in the injury,
       reduction or degradation of another or others in their
       beingness, persons, possessions or dynamics. (HCOB 1 Nov 68 II)
       Interesting that Dennis appeared to utilise the $cio
       terminology, but not explicitly define it.
       #Post#: 286--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Definitions for Overt / Motivator
   DIR By: Gone Fabian
       Date: March 7, 2018, 12:05 pm
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       There is a saying that "a super precise mathematician is a bad
       mathematician"..
       My own view is that in TROM we are talking about overwhelm. And
       the overwhelms on the person's time track are seen from his own
       viewpoint, they are subjective to some degree.
       This is very often overlooked in $cio practise (and elsewhere),
       so one just have to use what one finds.
       I can argue that what I did wasn't an overt, but if it caused
       some idiot to switch valence then it worked as an overt. We are
       not interested in the truth, we are interested in a workable
       truth.
       The popular definition is that an overt is something you
       wouldn't like happening to yourself, a motivator is something
       the other guy wouldn't like happening to himself.
       Yeah, sometimes true, sometimes not.
       Lots of things in this field are subjective. Even the Tone Scale
       is subjective as hell, but nobody noticed.
       #Post#: 287--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Definitions for Overt / Motivator
   DIR By: mjh
       Date: March 9, 2018, 5:57 am
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       Hi Gone Fabian - I agree, there's not much that could be
       considered 'non-subjective', I suppose the usage of definitions
       is an attempt to reduce this to a minimum. And, attempting to
       get to the n'th degree becomes futile at some point (as you say
       getting to a workable truth).
       --- Quote ---
       > Postulate failure is known as an overwhelm. Overwhelming the
       postulate of an opponent in a game is known as an overt act.
       Having one’s own postulates overwhelmed is called a motivator.
       The difference between win/lose and overt/motivator is a very
       fine one, and is determined solely by the considered value of
       the game. If the game is relatively trivial, then win/lose is
       applied; if the game is serious (important) then overt/motivator
       is applied.
       --- End Quote ---
       That little bit I put in BOLD is what you are talking about I
       think - as this is very much the subjective aspect.
       Overt/Motivator subjective perception example: Yesterday I took
       a lollipop from my young boy that he was about to eat, he was so
       pained by this and cried, just as well that I did as I'd spotted
       it had been resting on the bench in some bleach...
       The popular definitions you provided are 'good enough' for me!
       I'd like to think that the TROM materials could exist outside
       the realms of $cio and therefore not have to utilise their
       terminology.
       #Post#: 364--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Definitions for Overt / Motivator
   DIR By: Colleen
       Date: July 15, 2018, 1:39 pm
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       Hehe, an overt act for myself would be anything that would cause
       another to feel bad (or dead) and I get at least some momentary
       pleasure sensation from it - of course it had to be justified,
       either before or after.  For example, in a justified war if one
       were a voluntary sniper in a tree top and loved the sensation of
       inflicting others - plus might even get a medal and a nice
       pension ....  haven't we all been there?  We did just have two
       back to back world wars ....
       Good sensation can be had from non-life goals, even if for only
       a moment.
       Then of course there are the good sensations we compulsively
       seek from our life-oriented goals that have gotten out of hand
       and are compulsively enforced or prevented from the viewpoint of
       the "others".  For example, "You must eat my wonderful
       cooking...!"  Do I smell a motivator coming?    :D
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